Trocadero - right slope for TS?

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 6:36 am

What do you think is the right declivity in degrees or percent (how does one estimate that ?)
in Paris we're probably going to have a contest in Trocadero, which is a great setting, but it's rather slopy.

Maybe it has to be related to how long, and how wide, and the level (beginners and seniors in Paris), tarmac slick, and if there is a flat platform at the bottom
any opinion is welcome

Mike Gorman · Post by **Mike Gorman** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 11:38 pm

They've already raced at the Trocadero! Gilmour raced there years ago, so we know that place is makeable. The steeper the better, don't even tell me you are worried about getting hurt.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sat Mar 08, 2003 3:46 pm

you're the brave kind ?
so check your ticket (and your ribs,) because there is actually big chances you have opportunity to race there shortly, we'll post dates on this forum...

Glenn S · Post by **Glenn S** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 4:42 pm

Post a good picture of this hill please. Or are their picture of past races there?

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 6:19 pm

i found this :

http://paris.ride.free.fr/slalom/trocaphoto1.htm

Glenn S · Post by **Glenn S** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 1:19 am

Etienne,
That picture does not give any impression that this is a steep road compared to some of the events here in California like WLAC and JPL, or Loretta Street where the La Costa Boys Racing practices.

The road surface in that picture looks near perfect and should be great. The surface at WLAC and JPL are very far from perfect.

Can you practice there? Have you tried riding it since you first posted this?

Hey JG, what is the road like?

Another picture I found on the site you mention:
<img src=http://paris.ride.free.fr/slalom/images/troca2.jpg>
Is this the road?

Looks like it would be a very scenic place for a slalom contest with lots of public visibility.

Etienne, have you practiced at all with Jani yet? What did he say of the road you are talking about there?

For comparison, here is the WLAC GS hill with Rene Carrasco looking rather dapper. And out of view is the start, probably about another 200 feet up the hill.
<img src=http://members.cox.net/oceanslider/WLAChill.jpg>

One Pro racer I know said he'd rate the WLAC GS hill at about a 7(scale of 1-10 in difficulty) and the JPL hill at 9 for your comparison.

[ This Message was edited by: Glenn on 2003-03-16 12:47 ]

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sun Mar 16, 2003 11:09 am

i practiced there as a beginner, before i started slalom, with a cruising board, i didn't like it, not the slope but i found it too narrow to carve.

it's actually used by longboard riders to practice slide (tuesdays 9PM)

the ground is one of the best i've ever seen.
Jani says it's going to be selective

it is a highly spectacular and institutional place. that's for sure

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 3:28 am

Happily- I've skated both hills. 1995 for Trocadero and Nov. 2000 WLAC I got good results at both hills so I think I could give you a good idea of them.
So to compare and contrast-

WLAC GS hill is significantly steeper. But the Surface at the Trocadero lets you go full out.(mind you this was in 1995). When I rode the Trocadero the pavement was unusually fast for the slope- and grippier than you would expect- and for some reason the pavement there does not seem to degrade as quickly as regular asphalt.

There are two nearly identical tracks on either side of these Majestic fountains (yes "Majestic" is the correct word). WLAC surface has degraded to the point of not being a place that you would select to use as a practice place. Certainly the WLAC surface is limiting of the type of course that can be set.

When talking about the speed of a hill there are two factors to consider. One is the actual pitch of the hill- and another is the traction and "predictability" afforded by the surface.

The fastest I was spit out of a race course this year ironically was on the shallowest hill- at the DC park and Ride, but the course and the surface allowed for unlimited pumping.

On a poor surface you can only pump as fast as the lateral traction afforded by the surface will allow.

Anyhow- the currect skill level of racer will not have problems with the Trocadero- the width of the track is limiting and the slope makes for a good TS.

As far as Spectators are concerned- there is never shortage there. Permits might be the hard thing to get. The run out is short and steep- expect to incinerate several pairs of shoes.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 10:57 am

The Tarmac was certainly the best possible while processed for the Expo Universelle in the late thirties. since then this spot has never been opened to automobiles.
it's been softly polished by numbers of nurses, baby carts and quiet old people doing a little digestive walk.
One of the problem related to the inflation of personnal vehicules in cities is the destruction of excellent spots.
we must fight against the destructive use of cars on our city grounds.

Chris Eggers · Post by **Chris Eggers** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:35 am

Etienne, are the Eiffel Tower pools still there?
There was a fountain or something under the tower I rode in the 80´s, it was like a skatepark.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 4:23 pm

there is fountains between the two ridelines but rarely dry (actually even stimulate the discovery of slide when there's a bit of wind), there is a street skate spot by the Musée d'Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris, 300m from there, in the same architectural ensemble. Matybe your memory mixed the two spots ?

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Mar 19, 2003 11:23 pm

Here is the Url of where I raced. I think we are talking about the same place.
http://home.delfi.ee/~erikr/compres.htm

and Trocadero results.
http://home.delfi.ee/~erikr/trocstr.htm

and the GS at Trocadero
http://home.delfi.ee/~erikr/giant.htm

If the wind is switching I could see there being a problem. But we have limits as to how much wind is okay for racing anyhow.

If you need any assistance with this event from the USA please email me and I would be glad to try and help.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 9:22 am

Yes i'm sure we are talking about the same place, see the link below:
http://www.parispourvous.com/index.php?wpe=a38
fountain thing is at the very end of the line and the race won't use much more than one third i guess.

Chris Eggers · Post by **Chris Eggers** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 12:05 pm

Yes you could see them from halfway up the tower.

Pierre Gravel · Post by **Pierre Gravel** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 12:48 pm

The bowls were called "Les bassins" there was a feature about Mark Gonzales riding there in Thrasher mag around 88-89.

Chris Eggers · Post by **Chris Eggers** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 1:44 pm

Oui, Oui, "Les Bassins" je sais maintenant, merci, au revoir!

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 2:08 pm

there is two skateparks in Paris
a new concrete thing near the russian ambassy in the 16th that is not public access now, and the access question seems undecided (association) a few people have jumped the wall and it's not excellent (a topic about that on Riderz.net)
and there's a wooden indoor commercial park in Vitry
Paris is not the city to attract poolskaters

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:41 pm

Now if only we could put a longer mm lens on the eiffel tower cam for the race... heh heh heh. Freewebcast.

Yes we are talking about the same place- I just wanted you to see that the slope is fine and we have raced there prior.

Will this race have to be done without Permits? And not to attract too much attention, or would you have a connection to get permission to use the site? I might advise not to give the true date at first- in case we can not get permission.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:02 pm

well it ... seems that the file is going its way, there has been proposed dates, and the final decision is in the hands of the city administration. Organisers even had to include starting ramps plans in the file. it's all 100% official

Gary Fluitt · Post by **Gary Fluitt** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:19 pm

I was in Paris 10 months ago and I went to the Trocadero to check it out. It is indeed one of the most perfect venue's I can imagine for a race, except for the run out. I think that would be a foot drag stop, but not too bad.

My guess is the pitch is about 5-6%. Much like Avila in the US. An easy way to measure this is to take a common construction level and just measure the drop of the slope over that 1 meter (or how ever long the level is). Divide by legnth of the level device and you have the slope.

As for the surface, it's some freaky euro asphalt that I've never seen or felt before. Seems like there is some sort of rubber mixed in with the aggregate. It almost feels springy like a running track, but not quite. You could go fast on this surface and never loose traction.

Etienne - please keep us posted with how permits go.

<center>

<img src="http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/event ... _pitch.jpg">

<img src="http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/event ... pan_lo.jpg">

</center>

_________________

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:44 pm

Dude, that looks like a venue laid down by the hand of God!!! Why was I not a skateboarder when I visited Paris several years back??? WHY WHY WHY???

Jani Soderhall · Post by **Jani Soderhall** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:48 pm

I just made a post in the European contest forum saying that the contest is planned for May 24-25 but there is no authorization yet. Don't book your tickets just yet, but if it happens we hope you're all interested in coming!

Trocadero is the historical place for skateboarding, especially slalom, in Paris and you can skate there any day, except when there are too many strollers looking at the Eiffel Tower and not paying attention to slalomers who want to head down the hill full speed.

The pools Chris and others mentioned are not the fountains between the two roads. The skateable pools are around the feet of the tower. Most of the year they have water in them, like ponds, but they take the water out once in a while to clean it. That's when the action starts. I skated their years ago. The transition is really to small for anything we could do at the time, but street skaters today would have no problem. Caballero skated similar transitions while in Sweden at the Swedish Summer Camp already in 1981, 1982.

Glenn S · Post by **Glenn S** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 5:36 am

Is this the location? I can see that wall with the ivy hanging off it in the other picture and the street lights look the same.

I got the picture of Luca Giammarco here: http://spazioinwind.libero.it/coniskate/

Pierre Gravel · Post by **Pierre Gravel** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 2:56 am

Here's the poster for the French contest at Trocadero!

And the link to the race forum (in French)
http://www.riderz.net/viewtopic.php?t=4 ... highlight=

The race website:
http://www.riderz.net/site-troca

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 8:49 am

Damn Ransom is already Poaching! And that guy never poaches.

Joachim Leonhardt · Post by **Joachim Leonhardt** » Fri Apr 18, 2003 11:48 pm

Moro Bay, CA / USA - Grüningen, CH - Paris, F ...

just wondering what is going on ...

Worlds ... only the amount of countries counts...

Did I misunderstood the poster ?

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 12:10 am

No wonder Ransom is so fast when he's moving he looks fast standing still,lol.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 10:15 am

On 2003-04-18 17:48, Joachim Leonhardt wrote:
Moro Bay, CA / USA - Grüningen, CH - Paris, F ...
just wondering what is going on ...
Worlds ... only the amount of countries counts...
Did I misunderstood the poster ?

... What did you understand ? what do you mean ?

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 10:41 am

is your question about "World Championship" ? Gruningen is not a World Championship. Whatever the only previous World Championship is F-City-World. Since Paris is not into F-City...
Each one can be world champion of his own city, but none of you will ever be world champion in Russia or Baltic countries ;-D
Someone has the energy for taking charge of ISSA ?

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 7:31 pm

This post was edited because in context it is currently nonsensical and no longer has reference to a previous post. It was the gas tank reference to Etienne's signature that Etienne has since decided to change.

Otherwise it would make Arab appear to be argueing with no one.

IMHO it is important to keep these threads intact for new learning slalomers and to encourage new slalomers to compete in competitions be they regional or international in scope.

This site should foster international cooperation and an international competition circuit where all members feel welcome to race in any competition in any country.

I emailed both Etienne and Arab.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-04-22 11:16 ]

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 9:10 pm

I think there is a difference between a World Cup and World Championships. I think ISSA has underlined that difference. I think World Cup was held ones in Saratov. I think 10 nations are going to be at the Swiss race. I think there was only 5 or 6 at the Californian World Championships. I think the Swiss were very careful in the past with naming their comps Championships or Cups. I think...but I’m not sure, I wasn't there.

Vlad.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 9:25 pm

I think World Cup was held ones in Saratov. I think 10 nations are going to be at the Swiss race. I think there was only 5 or 6 at the Californian World Championships. I think the Swiss were very careful in the past with naming their comps Championships or Cups. I think...but I’m not sure, I wasn't there.

very interesting... World cup actually really means open competition. How many foreign racers overall was there in Morro Bay ?

Jani Soderhall · Post by **Jani Soderhall** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 10:15 pm

My own personal rule is as follows:

National, European, World Championships should be agreed upon, either by official National, European, World organizations, and if there are none, by a some other means to assure that most people agree and that there will be only one such contest in a year.

The word Cup for me normally means that the contest is part of a series of contests such as European Cup, World Cup and so on, but this word has been used in different ways before so although I didn't recommend it for this specific contest I did not try to prevent it either.

The Swiss in Gruningen will have a contest with almost no name, but will have many participants because they've done it before and they were out there early.

The Paris event has a cool name, and will hopefully also gather a comfortable number of participants despite the late announcement.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:14 pm

i wonder if Arab will have the guts to try RULE the Trocadero slope...

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sat Apr 19, 2003 11:46 pm

Non-American racers at Morro Bay I recall:

Paul Price
Martin Drayton
Michael Stride
Claude Reigner
Jani Soderhall
Chris Eggers
Several Swiss (I believe there were five who piled out of that van?)
There were more, but I do not remember all the names.

So out of @100 registered MALE entrants, about 10% were from other countries (I don't believe any of the women racers were foreign.)

Moderators note:
The Swiss team in Morro Bay consisted of the following skaters:
Chris Hart
Maurus Strobel
Martin Siegrist
Raffael Schaffner
Marvin Kory

[ This Message was edited by: Jani Soderhall on 2003-09-27 17:41 ]

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 1:05 am

etnie-I prefer Sarah Lee Croissants to French Croissants, all of them, the French Croissants are too flaky and dry, why would I bother wasting my money to go to France if I couldn't get a good Croissant?

Vlad-Its pretty simple to get participants from 15 different countries to show up at a slalom race in europe since 14 or those countrys can fit within the borders of California and Neveda.

ed note: Please refrain from directing croissant generalizations.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-05-01 13:13 ]

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 2:38 am

The World Championships will be held September 26-28, 2003 in Morro Bay, California. The dates were posted almost two months ago. The event will be open to racers worldwide. There will be no pre-qualifying like there was in 2002. Each racer will have to earn his/her spot in the finals by participating in the qualifying rounds.

PS - Dear etienne,

Are you referring to Americans with your sign-off signature? Do the French not drive/manufacture automobiles?

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 4:03 am

Etinnie-I have left you some info on the OFF TOPIC forum here at Slalomskateboarder

Frederic Reveillard · Post by **Frederic Reveillard** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 9:10 am

bonjour etienne,
desole mais je n'ai pas pu te joindre par mp...
sans doute serait il bon que tu ote ta signature(que j'approuve pourtant);je ne crois pas que le slalom ait quoi que ce soit a gagner a etre politise et il est certainement inutile d'offenser nos collegues ricains(mis a part cette grosse burne d'arab,mais c'est un autre probleme qui depasse largement ce forum...)
si une confrontation doit avoir lieu entre slalomeurs us et europeens(ou français),elle ne doit pas sortir des cones(et deja ça ,ça va etre tres dur);
amicalement,
fred

[ This Message was edited by: Frederic reveillard on 2003-04-20 03:32 ]

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:33 am

On 2003-04-20 03:10, Frederic reveillard wrote:
sans doute serait il bon que tu ote ta signature(que j'approuve pourtant);je ne crois pas que le slalom ait quoi que ce soit a gagner a etre politise

the geo-political conversation has been followed in "off Topic" section...
pourquoi baisser les bras ? Je prend un delai de reflexion, je vais voir comment ca evolue, les opinions sont partagées aussi chez nos amis.

Frederic Reveillard · Post by **Frederic Reveillard** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 12:01 pm

je ne te demande pas de baisser les bras etienne,mais juste de comprendre que si les slalomeurs en arrivent a se disputer sur des sujets comme l'essence,l'irak,etc...,alors bush aura VRAIMENT gagne;
nous sommes sur un forum sportif et comme tu le sais,le sport a ses valeurs;respectons les et ne laissons pas les politicards les polluer

fred

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 12:48 pm

Fred, cette conversation peut continuer dans la section off-topic.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 8:21 pm

Oh, shit!

It seems like the Paris event will be pulled off in May after all!? I'll have to start practice real quick and hard or I will get crushed!

What I understood at the forum it is still not 100% but they have a "favorable mention" to get the green light. So don't book your flights just yet.

And by the way Etienne, I fully agree with Frederic.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 8:36 pm

you think "it's flatuence you fill your gas tank with" is offending ?

_________________
there is no signature at the moment

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-05-01 12:34 ]

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:21 am

Of course its offending.
It's also inapropriate.

Moderator · Post by **Moderator** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:10 pm

Please take your argument to the "Off Topic" forum. It is quite alright to post your opinion on off topics there.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 7:09 pm

On 2003-04-20 14:36, etienne de Bary wrote:
you think "it's flatuence you fill your gas tank with" is offending ?

No, I do not find it offending. I find it ridiculous. Let's foster an international community of slalom skateboard racing. Let's keep the gastrointenstinal problems to the off topic post.

I absolutely want you to be able to speak your peace as a slalom skateboard enthusiast, I want to be able to read what you say. I support your enthusiasm but do it in the "Off Topic" area.

Your "signature" is your choice but it should not have political or offensive nature.

Rules for your opinion(s) will limit you. If we make rules, people will start playing rule games. Let's not start making rules and let's get back to the reason why we are here, slalom skateboarding.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-05-01 12:43 ]

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:24 am

Tomorrow I'm going to go out and skate with some new people at Deerfield who probably can't slalom great yet. Sometimes I find that when I go to a new slalom spot I might be more skilled than some of the particpants.

Eric Groff you might come out to have a good time meet new people and help get them stoked on improving their skills. If you only have fun racing with those better than yourself, why not help those slower than youself get faster? You are very helpful setting up staging for races to make racing better so it would not be so far a stretch to help make the races better by helping to improve the pool of racing talent. Doing so might help to insure a good talent pool for Nathan to race as he gets older.

I came to WLAC 2000 and raced a lot of the SSS guys and now I don't find it an easy win anymore and it is a lot more fun that way.

As for California and Nevada being so large- in that respect we should look at Russia as being the epicenter of slalom- why, well obviously because it is the largest, had the largest number of competitors, sold many slalom dedicated boards...etc.

The size of the neighborhood doesn't always determine the scope.

I think having many countries present shows that people were willing to LEAVE their country for a competition and that in it of itself helps to emphasize the importance of that particular competition.

It is one thing to race at home- its another to go to another time zone and race.

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:28 am

Gilless-Let me take the time to point out those that I helped get involved in slalom racing and reinvolved.

Chicken
Evans
Ransom
Kimball
Peters
Olson
Hester
Hackett

to name a few.

I do my part, along with being on the hill first and last, I dont remember you ever lifting a thing at any race you have ever been at. I only rememeber you going home and complaining about the races that happen out here.

Kudos to you for patting yourself on the back for helping Henry, rememeber when Henry wants to ride he comes west to ride with SSS.

I wonder how he likes his new Big Ick from the "Henry J Big Ick Fund" I wonder how his sister liked the Herr Vaughnster complete I set him up with?

John do you know what and why I started the "Big Ick Fund", So that Henry would give back to slalom as those of us have given to him, It looks like my little scam worked, Long before you had anything to do with it.

Next time you want to go tit for tat with me, get the facts straight.

You may be a big fish in a little pond in your neck of the woods John, but in this neck of the woods your just another mouth, you've proven that for the last 2 years.

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:39 am

Gilmour wrote:
"It is one thing to race at home- its another to go to another time zone and race."

I raced in 3 different time zones last year, whats your point?

My point is the only real competition happens to be in my time zone, you can be a cherry pickin sand bagger and race where you want, I race against the best because I want to be the best, how could I be the best racing against bottom feeders, I suggest to the bottom feeders to come race with the best, it will only make them better.

etnie wrote:
"Whatever the only previous World Championship is F-City-World. Since Paris is not into F-City... "

Hey Adam is this what you call promoting international slalom, it looks to me like some frech guy bashing FCR, the first and foremost slalom series in the world. if anybody wants to prove me wrong, show up and race and see how you measure up to the talent pool in FCR.

This week you banned me, I got a shitload of emails from Europeans that dont exactly agree with those that are putting on the Paris Race, words like "self serving" and "Sandbaggers" have been used along with plenty more that I wont post because it would just get me kicked off of here again.

Seems the do gooders arnt doin so good!

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