ISSA Logo - time to update it?

Louis Selby · Post by **Louis Selby** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:26 am

I really like Wouter's logo direction,

maybe he could try something along the lines of putting in an actual letter "I" and having a cone before the "ISSA" letters, where the cone reflects the shape of the letter A.....

Here is my example of what I mean (in very low res and not using a very good font mind you!)

Slipa

Flavio Badenes · Post by **Flavio Badenes** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:22 pm

Ok, these are the last ones Wouter will make.

I know him, he is such a creative guy that this can go on forever.
Let us know what you want and you will get it.

Here you have a few more possibilities:

and

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:46 pm

GREAT STUFF!

Jonathan Harms · Post by **Jonathan Harms** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:44 pm

Excellent stuff. I like the top one with the now goofy-footed Pirnack (on the couch, my ass). Any chance the orange cone could be made a bit smaller or the white around it could be made a bit bigger to convey more of the "I" from a distance?

I also like the top two in the "multiple" examples--they are very clean--but overall I really like the ones with the skater, which convey more of the dynamism of the activity--especially the bottom "Pirnack" one.

My only quibble with that one is that he's kind of going on the wrong side of the cone. I cropped out the other logos and then moved a couple of the cones around in GIMP to show what a more "race-correct" version might look like. Sure, it's low-res, but it's just another variation.

Flavio Badenes · Post by **Flavio Badenes** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:43 pm

You got a point there Jonathan, here is the same logo but them with a more correct "racing line"

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:06 am

Is there some reason (almost) everyone is ignoring the fact that the silhouette of Pirnack is Greg Fadell's property and it is up to him to give the OK for this use???

And I agree also with JBH, that several diffrent designs should be submitted and then voted on - just the few people in this thread are by no means a majority.

That said - lots of good stuff being done here. We WILL have a nice new logo eventually!

-RF

Jonathan Harms · Post by **Jonathan Harms** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:45 am

Good point, Rick. I can't speak for everyone else, so...

Obviously if something like this were to become the ISSA logo, Greg would have to give his permission. At this point, however, nothing like that has been proposed or decided. Any chance this falls under "fair use"? (EBasil, Haggy or any other attorneys out there, care to weigh in on this one?)

If not, then we should all quit using it even for a mock-up.

Probably the best thing to do is just contact Fadell himself. It's too late to call him right now, but I can try calling him tomorrow and asking him directly.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:13 pm

Rick Floyd wrote:We WILL have a nice new logo eventually!

-RF

Rick,

Just so there's no confusion, you do realize this is a process and a decision the ISSA membership will make?

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:25 pm

Wesley Tucker wrote:
Rick Floyd wrote:We WILL have a nice new logo eventually!

-RF
Rick,

Just so there's no confusion, you do realize this is a process and a decision the ISSA membership will make?

Uh, yeah, I get that.

SEE ABOVE: "And I agree also with JBH, that several diffrent designs should be submitted and then voted on - just the few people in this thread are by no means a majority. "

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:30 pm

Jonathan Harms wrote:Good point, Rick. I can't speak for everyone else, so...

Obviously if something like this were to become the ISSA logo, Greg would have to give his permission. At this point, however, nothing like that has been proposed or decided. Any chance this falls under "fair use"? (EBasil, Haggy or any other attorneys out there, care to weigh in on this one?)

If not, then we should all quit using it even for a mock-up.

Probably the best thing to do is just contact Fadell himself. It's too late to call him right now, but I can try calling him tomorrow and asking him directly.

Thanks JBH, I PM'd Fadell (from here) about this as soon as I posted my initial mock-up...but no response...don't have any other way to get in touch with him.

As a lifelong photog, I can tell you it doesn't fall under "fair use". Pirnack's likeness is probably OK since he does not appear as a "recognizable person"...to the general public I mean, we all know his style of course.

That said, I'm pretty much guessing Greg will be OK with it since it is for the good of the skate community and not for profit - but we STILL need to make sure.

Toby Warg · Post by **Toby Warg** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:03 pm

If you want, you are free to use any picture from our Gothenburg 2008 album.

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:49 pm

Was I to fat to fit into your camera?

Flavio Badenes · Post by **Flavio Badenes** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:07 pm

Toby Warg wrote:If you want, you are free to use any picture from our Gothenburg 2008 album.

Ok, thanks!.
Robert don't worry Photoshop can perform miracles these days!

Donald Campbell · Post by **Donald Campbell** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:13 pm

http://longboard.slak.nu/gallery2/v/ses ... ewsIndex=1

this seems to be a very representative pic for sure

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:21 pm

.....and we all know where to put the cone, right?

Toby Warg · Post by **Toby Warg** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:26 pm

robert gaisek wrote:Was I to fat to fit into your camera?

Oh yeah.. Maybe next time? No cookies?

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:31 pm

Next time I will be even bigger......and faster.

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:50 pm

...something tells me this isn't the best way to go about this... X-P

silvio endrizzi · Post by **silvio endrizzi** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:23 pm

Dear Rick,

for sure Fadell’s agreement would be desirable, but just to be precise:-)

- Greg Fadell is the proprietor of the picture representing Pirnack skating (the one appearing on Pavel's old website).
- Greg Fadell is not the proprietor of the silhouette
- The silhouette is Wouter's creation (a derivative work).
- Wouter has created a new and original artistic logo in which this silhouette is only a part, and it is used as a symbol for capturing the essential insights of the sport.
- The logo is not a picture and it has a completely different purpose, providing even a new information ---> the ISSA.
- No one is expecting to make money with the new logo! Fadell and Pavel will probably not lose any potential market because of this silhouette.

What I'm trying to say is that this case looks more like a “highly transformative work” or a “fair use”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformativeness

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:53 pm

Silvio,

You are correct.

BUT

If this logo is voted on and selected then rest assured the ISSA will have Greg's permission before using it in any context.

Don't worry about any possibility of him refusing. I'll just get him drunk before I ask.

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:05 am

silvio endrizzi wrote:Dear Rick,

for sure Fadell’s agreement would be desirable, but just to be precise:-)

- Greg Fadell is the proprietor of the picture representing Pirnack skating (the one appearing on Pavel's old website).
- Greg Fadell is not the proprietor of the silhouette
- The silhouette is Wouter's creation (a derivative work).
- Wouter has created a new and original artistic logo in which this silhouette is only a part, and it is used as a symbol for capturing the essential insights of the sport.
- The logo is not a picture and it has a completely different purpose, providing even a new information ---> the ISSA.
- No one is expecting to make money with the new logo! Fadell and Pavel will probably not lose any potential market because of this silhouette.

What I'm trying to say is that this case looks more like a “highly transformative work” or a “fair use”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformativeness

Hi Silvio - thanks for your input. One of the reasons I am concerned about Greg's approval of the use of the silhouette, is that, in fact, the silhouette is MY creation, not Wouter's - look back in this thread and you will see I was the first to use it in a design. I am friends with Greg, and Dave, and therefore want to be sure things are done right, that's all. The picture I used in fact came from Greg's website - http://www.gregfadell.com/

As I staed above in an earlier post - I clearly understand this is not for profit, and what the purpose is. I GET all that.

Whether it is "transformative" or not - I fully agree with Wes. Greg's permission is what I seek, as the use of his original photo for the derivative work was originally mine.

I also agree with Wesley that if my or Wouters design, or some form of it, is eventually used, we will get Mr. Fadell "poperly prepared" and secure his blessing for the project.

Happy skating!

-RF

Donald Campbell · Post by **Donald Campbell** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:53 pm

as i see it the whole thing is wasted time

lots of input and no forward movement

Jonathan Harms · Post by **Jonathan Harms** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:41 pm

Patience, young grasshoppa...listen for the voice of the silence...

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:37 pm

logoooooohhhhmmmmmmmmm....

silvio endrizzi · Post by **silvio endrizzi** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:41 pm

Seemingly the creators of the new logo will be three different people: namely Greg, Rick and Wouter, each with his personal contribution to the winning idea.

Therefore, you can simply state that on a piece of paper (1) in-between you guys. Further on, this new entity (you three together), real proprietor of the idea, will start the negotiations with ISSA how to exploit the logo. This can go from selling t-shirts with the logo printed on to the deposit of a Trade Mark.

(1) Please define a complete statute.

Flavio Badenes · Post by **Flavio Badenes** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:38 pm

Since we are not really into Kung-Fu here in Amsterdam we decided to act, so here we go again!!!

Rider Dominik Kowalski, photo by Cirryl Schardijn.

Case closed?

Jonathan Harms · Post by **Jonathan Harms** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:45 pm

I talked to Fadell last night as he was on his way to a skatepark. He doesn't check this site very often but said he might weigh in on a few things. I hope he does, because he had what I consider some very valid constructive criticism--not so much about the use of one of his images (although I know he has strong opinions about that) but about what constitutes a good logo, etc.

Daniel Gesmer · Post by **Daniel Gesmer** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:24 am

Karl Floitgraf wrote:I think we should have a contest. Preliminary voting round, get a couple finalists and then vote for our favorite out of those 2-3 finalists.

I agree, great idea - let's implement it!

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:02 am

I think there is a whole bunch of people just waiting to contribute with some ideas.

Jonathan Harms · Post by **Jonathan Harms** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:48 pm

I made a proposal to the Board last night that we move forward with a logo contest. If we get agreement (which I hope we will), all that remains is to work out the details. If/when I hear anything, I or one of the other Board members will post it here.

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:50 pm

Jonathan Harms wrote:I made a proposal to the Board last night that we move forward with a logo contest. If we get agreement (which I hope we will), all that remains is to work out the details. If/when I hear anything, I or one of the other Board members will post it here.

Thanks JBH - definitely the way to go at this point.

HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric · Post by **HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:53 pm

Flavio, the last one looks really great !

Karl Floitgraf · Post by **Karl Floitgraf** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:59 pm

Jonathan Harms wrote:I made a proposal to the Board last night that we move forward with a logo contest. If we get agreement (which I hope we will), all that remains is to work out the details. If/when I hear anything, I or one of the other Board members will post it here.

Nice JBH. I'm glad we elected you!

And in a strange twist of fate... we will probably need a graphic to promote the contest, lol.

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:24 pm

I got one......

Flavio Badenes · Post by **Flavio Badenes** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:16 am

robert gaisek wrote:I got one......

I love it! but I think the skater could be a little bit fatter

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:25 am

I have used a pic of Mika and he´s not so fat.

silvio endrizzi · Post by **silvio endrizzi** » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:18 pm

Rick have a look to this one:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... AD96560SG0

we are at the forefront of juridical matter!!!!

Cyril Schardijn · Post by **Cyril Schardijn** » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:21 pm

But since the last logo of Wouter is based on a picture I made, there is no problem. I'm ok with it.

Regarding the logo discussion;

Would it work if the text Issa was placed like it was painted on the road?
With the cone upright and the I as the shade of the cone>
Skater can race over the text.

Greg Fadell · Post by **Greg Fadell** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:39 pm

Thanks big time to Rick for giving me the courtesy of asking my permission for the use of my photo.
Also, thanks to JBH for the call.

Yeah, there are many ways of getting around copyright but asking straight out instead of standing behind some legal-ez is the only decent thing to do......

I would have responded to this sooner but i am so busy working trying to make up for all the undelivered prize money from years past that I don't have much time to check this site.

Maybe the ISSA can reclaim those funds from the organizers who they "granted" status to and actually pay for a graphic artist to do a logo. Oh, but I forgot.... once the ISSA waves their mighty sword of approval..... organizers can basically do whatever they want without repercussion.... and everyone should be happy cuz everyone is just "donating" their time and have regular live to attend to.....

Not dissing the time and effort on the artwork that has been presented..... just trying to make two points with one stick.

Whether it's a race, or a logo, or whatever..... and organization can not get above mediocrity on hoping and skipping from one person to another and "having a contest" to get things done..... when there is not compensation or accountability there is "good enough", and "you should be happy"

This could lead into a hundred different discussions..... and I am not "trying to stir the pot"

I spoke to JBH for a bit on things to think about logo wise....
some of those things included :
making sure the logo reproduces at various sizes and dpi's (which includes screen print resolutions)
The "cone" as the "i" in ISSA is totally confusing for a non skater/racer
Be "very" careful on the image of the skater you use- if you use one..... it says more than most believe......

If my shot of Dave is the one you end up using.... go ahead

That and all the money I never got from races are my "donations" to the ISSA....

Can you please send me a receipt for tax purposes...... HAAAAAAAAAA

If you are at all agitated after reading this.....
go here.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k

B to the L to the F'n R

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:36 pm

Hmm, I see there has been som progress on the ISSA logo examples.

But I still prefer being conservative and stand by the orginal simple one. Even though you can make small changes to make it feel modern. But this idea that "it has to be a slalom skater beacuse otherwise you don't understand what it is" I don't buy. So IKEA needs a chair in their logo. Volvo need a car. And Ericsson needs a telephone in their logo.

For me those who try to do logos like that just look cheap in my eyes.

But it does not mean you can mix it with something else depending on the situation. Mix in a skater if you want for a poster. Add the full name "International Slalom Skateboard Association" if you like under it when needed.

About the name it has always been "International Skateboard Slalom Association" until some "native english speaking" people said it was not correct saying so. I did not agree but after the vote 2007 I now always use "International Slalom Skateboard Association". I think the idea that we are skateboarders first and slalomers second weighs far more heavier than grammatical rules. I regret the change but that's life.

For the ISSA logo I think the same. That the historic part of it being there from the start weighs high towards just wanting a new fancy logo. I.e. "change the one we have but don't change it"

if you know what I mean.

Michael Stride · Post by **Michael Stride** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:51 pm

Hey, you ripped off my avatar!

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:24 pm

Finally someone noticed!

Flavio Badenes · Post by **Flavio Badenes** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:30 pm

robert gaisek wrote:Finally someone noticed!

That is not fair, after all that is HIS avatar!!!

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:52 pm

Ok......shall I bend over and take it?
Maybe I can pay the price by making him a portrait? I´m really good with Paint.

Michael Stride · Post by **Michael Stride** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:07 pm

Well, I have been described as looking like an oil painting.

Sadly, one done by Jackson Pollock.

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:14 pm

I just talked to Mr Stride´s lawyer and....well........I´m sorry.
I have now changed the picture and will never do such a bad thing again.

Flavio Badenes · Post by **Flavio Badenes** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:17 pm

Rick Floyd · Post by **Rick Floyd** » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:03 pm

This thread is really rich now....really.

Thanks Greg - just makin' sure.

If ISSA doesn't use my logo (with your picture of Dave), you have my permission to use the general design for the "new BLR" logo - but of course you'll need to get DP on the team then...which would be BAD ASS!

-RF

Robert Gaisek · Post by **Robert Gaisek** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:18 pm

I still think it would be nice with a new logo.
I still think the "old" one is looking.............old.
I still think it is a good idea to have a contest......at least to see what riders and maybe others think of it.
If we want to be seen out there the logo must show what´s it all about in a clear way.

I´m a rookie in this family and maybe I talk a bit to much, but this is an important question and it can make a difference if we want to have a conversation with the youth.

Enough said from me about this topic.

Cat Young · Post by **Cat Young** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:47 pm

The logo definitely needs a face lift.... just as I will pretty soon!

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