The increasing cost of racing

[Karl Floitgraf]

Races cost lots of money. Does anyone have ideas to get alternative funding for it so that eventually entry fees could maybe go down? Is anyone else curious why the entry fees for the American Races keep going up. This isn't a stab at any one race or organizer anything because it's obviously effecting all the races, $100 for Buckeye and US Nationals, I think even more for Dixie Worlds.

It's happening to all the US races but I didn't notice it so bad in Europe, 50euro for the PSWC and 40euro for the Hannover world cup. The first big race I attended in germany in 2004 had a 10 euro entry fee and paid for the race with a beer tent at the end of the run.


Is there anyway we as the race organization the ISSA can make conditions which will allow lower entry fees in the future? Is each racer going to need sponsors like I've got financial aid for college or can we do something to get sponsors to help reduce the cost the racers have to pay?

[Wesley Tucker]

Races cost more because racers expect more.

The ISSA membership can vote on anything it pleases. If the ISSA wants to pass a measure limiting entry fees, then the ISSA can pass a measure limiting entry fees. What that will accomplish is beyond me, but of course the ISSA can do it. After all, who decides what conditions are acceptable and what conditions are not?

Race promoters, of course, have the option of telling the ISSA to pack sand.

Whether or not a racer needs sponsors is something the racer needs to decide.
Whether or not a racer needs to make choices between equipment, racing and college is something the racer needs to decide.
If racers don't like entry fees, don't pay them.
If racers want more for less, good luck.

[Paul Graf]

This has been a struggle for me too. I have opted not to go to some smaller races this summer in order for me to be able to afford (both in time & money) the Buckeye Race.
I don't know if racers are expecting more, but the way I look at it, the Buckeye will be a big race with tons of schwag. So with a $100 dollar entry fee you stand a great chance of winning at least $50 worth of quality product. That not so hard to swallow.

I'm a very frugal (cheap) person & I just bought a new front radikal. It took me a long time to convince myself to buy a $155 front truck, which is well worth it, if you want to race and compete and whats the point have having great equipment if you don't race? That's the question I struggle with.

Maybe some of the bigger racers in the future could have pro class with a more expensive entry fee. The pro money goes to the pros & a cheaper entry fee for amateurs. The Am's could just skate for new wheels, bearing, deck, etc.

When I 1st started competing the prizes where normally given out from the top place down. I was always at the bottom then. Nowadays alot of prizes are given out starting at the bottom. Which is a great practice BTW, but now that I made it to the middle of the pack I usually end up with a set of free bearings.

I share your pain & part of your last name.

Paul Graf

[Ron Barbagallo]

hey Karl - then don't come!

We're Americans - we take what we want! Blah, blah, fuckity blah!

This $hit costs money Holmes! Besides, if you learned how to read you'd see that there's a CHARITY involved!!

Karl, you're violating one of the cardinal rules of getting along with people - don't $hit where you eat!!

Now you KNOW I'm an easy goin' guy, so you gotta be doin' somethin' REALLY stupid to piss me off - so think aboot that!

The Farm offers 4 races, t-shirt, 2 meals, a big party WITH a band, prizes, comradery.....well in your case, maybe not

[Karl Floitgraf]

Maan

Can't we even talk about things with out getting down each other's throats anymore? I don't think my post was a dig at any race or race organizer. I am honestly concerned that the big entry fees are going to keep young riders with potential and talent out of races. THAT DOESN'T MEAN I FAULT THE RACE ORGANIZERS OR THE RACE.

[Chris Favero]

yea,i agree.after losing money on every race me and Cnova has thrown,you feel bad charging more,but these things cost money.the farm is over the top,last year,i know i never had to buy beer or even buy a meal,that was rad.cfav

[Chris Favero]

Maan



I like the idea of Pro and Am entry fees- seems fair. I'll be able to afford more when I'm pro and I think finding sponsors to help at that point will be easier.

Klark,you're so f*#kin humble.you know,we like you,but someone has to keep you humble for your own good.i cant wait to beat you this year.
cfav

[Wesley Tucker]

Is anyone else curious why the entry fees for the American Races keep going up.

No. The reasons are apparent

This isn't a stab at any one race or organizer anything because it's obviously effecting all the races, $100 for Buckeye and US Nationals, I think even more for Dixie Worlds.

So why bring it up?

It's happening to all the US races but I didn't notice it so bad in Europe, 50euro for the PSWC and 40euro for the Hannover world cup. The first big race I attended in germany in 2004 had a 10 euro entry fee and paid for the race with a beer tent at the end of the run.

I was just wondering if other than the exchange rate what the difference is? I mean Paris is the single most expensive place I've ever been and for 50 (which is about 65 bucks now) they paid out to the pros and we got a tshirt. The entry fee even covered one Duvel a day- or two or three if you wore different tshirts .

Comparing European and North American racing is incongruous.

Is there anyway we as the race organization the ISSA can make conditions which will allow lower entry fees in the future?

Yes. Make a proposal and put it up for a vote.

Is each racer going to need sponsors like I've got financial aid for college or can we do something to get sponsors to help reduce the cost the racers have to pay?

That depends on every individual's financial situation. Some racers have their mother pay for everything so going all over the country is no big deal. Other racers have families and tremendous financial obligations making racing a low priority.

If entry fees keep going up I'll have to decide whether to buy a board for the contest and not race or race with something borrowed.

That's nothing new. It just may be new to YOU?

I'm gonna go look under my car seat for quarters...

So you have a car? You're already making financial prirority decisions. What kind of car? What kind of insurance? What kind of tires? Perhaps there are other areas to blame for the inability to buy a new boards besides the few hundred spent each year on race registration.

See?

Can't we even talk about things with out getting down each other's throats anymore?

There's your conversation.

[Paul Graf]

Karl I agree with you. I so easy to take a post the wrong way. Things can get way out of hand really quick.

We are just one big dysfunctional family here. We love to race & we love to see each other at these races. I feel like you were just voicing your personal concerns with spending money racing and not a dig at the race promoters.

Chris, You are right, You always feed us well. Look at Luna 40 bucks gets you a race and tons of great eats & drinks to boot. Not to mention the hospitality. Same goes for Dixie.

It's hard sometime to pay entry fee sometine. plus a hotel room, etc. so don't come down hard on Karl for his concerns. With a little networking people can share hotel rooms and travel expenses. etc.

T0 quote a wise Canadian - Red Green - "Remember, I'm pulling for ya. We're all in this together!"

BTW... Floitgraf doesn't sound very American

PG

[Kenny Mollica]

Karl-

Lick my teabag. No wonder everyone hates you. Your a chode. The races have always been $100 since 2001.

The Buckeye Cost money to put on.

Permit $50
T-shirts $700
Posters $200
Barriers $300
Purchased swag $540
Port-o-john $200
Renting generator $300
Primer and paint for ramps $100
Shade tent for racers $500
Trophies $600
U-haul $400
Person to run timer all weekend $600

Thats around $4,500, plus other minor expense that I will pay for like hardware for ramps, trash bags, tables, etc.

There will be around 65 paying skaters. Thats $6,500 total.

The pro purse is $1,800, which is $300 1st, $200 2nd, $100 3rd time three races.

TOTAL INCOME = $6,500
TOTAL EXPENSES = $6,300

Thats $300, IF we get 65 paying riders. Right now we have 42 and its a week away.

Last year I spent $7,500 of my own money.

Do us all a favor. Fuk off. Don't come. Don't call me.

I have had many complaints from PPS riders about you addition to the team. Almost everyone I know from California to Europe thinks you are a total loser, and I am starting to see their point. You have a big mouth. Stay home.

Tell the Weasel that he is welcome and does not have to pay entry this year. I will cover him out of my own pocket. He's a cool cat and I feel bad that you are hurting his brand.

I told you to pay and you did not. Now this?

See you in hell, you faggot.

[Kenny Mollica]

Not to mention the 100 of hours put into the race since January and the thousands of dollars worth swag that we give away. Everyone will walk with more than $100 worth of swag. But you'll be home.

[Chris Gregorowicz]

This is too much fun not to get in on.

Kenny - We've never met, but anyone I know that has skated with you speaks highly, and after the best no bullshit post I have seen in a year I feel I owe you six beers if we ever meet at a race.

Fats - Did one week with my ugly ass in Toronto turn you into a foul mouth jackass like me? If so, I can only say I'm proud to be the one that turned you to the dark side.

To anyone who puts on a world class race: My hat goes off to you for what is involved. I can't imagine what goes through Joe's, Tway's, Marion's, and anyone else's head trying to keep a bunch of overgrown children happy for 2 to 3 days. So to all those that bitch I suggest you throw your own world class event and see how you fare. If every single racer is still talking about how well things went a year later you've managed the near impossible IMO

See you all at the Farm - I'll be the guy constantly saying thank you and doing whatever I can to make the race organizers life a bit easier.

~Chris aka Topgun

[Donald Campbell]

man,karl...
i'm really wondering why you have to complain about the entry fees.aren't you the kid touring through europe each year from race to race?
who pays that?
your father,right?
and now you come across questioning the amount of entry fees charged for a race?
i would say that this is the least of your worries,right?

and here's something else:kenny mentioned the amount of UNPAID labor going into a race.
if you tell people who are not involved in this whole thing they will either shake their head or walk away thinking you are too good for this world.

don't try to compare your race to what the bigger guys are doing when it comes to money and work.

and now...class dismissed

[Karl Floitgraf]

I wicked sorry dudes, this got way out of hand and I wrote some things there that I shouldn't have said like that. I didn't want to complain about any of the races or what they are offering because they are really amazing events with people working incredibly hard so people like myself can skate and have a great time.


Most of the time I don't know when I should shut up and just enjoy myself.

[Erik Basil]

Wow, I have to admit that I didn't see the flamefest coming when I read the first post. It could be because I was giddy with the stoke of riding my Floitgraf-edition Skaterbuilt Sixer, or it could be because I just saw a legitimate question that I've heard a LOT of kids ask at races (and not just slalom events). I don't know Karl, other than from the internet, but he really has asked a legitimate question, to which there are legitimate answers.

1. Races cost a lot, per person, to put on. Now, not ALL races do, but the ones with permits generally do. Kenny Mollica did a good job laying out the budget for his race, so it's not too hard for the enquiring mind to bust out the long-division skills/calculator and figure out how the hard costs are allocated out. Note that Mollica does not include fees for staff other than the timing official...everyone else (hoping there are some) are volunteers either pulled from the racing ranks or maybe a local scout pack.

Some races cost a lot more: the 2006 Encinitas Open cost about $20k to run, and the organizers lost money roughly equal to the cost for Sheriff presence, or the prize pot...if they'd offered no cash and only the various pittances of schwag sent in by sponsors, then they'd have broken even. Some cost less: IGSA regional races in SoCal cost racers $50, regardless of how many show up. Some days, the IGSA crew lose money as a reward for setting up haybales, a timing system, insurance, porta-toilets, tents, a truck, course workers, etc... On days when they don't lose money, skaters usually complain that the prizes don't include a new car, interview by Barbara Walters and wads of cash. It's just math, though. If 100 skaters race and it COSTS $5,000 to put on the event, math that out. If only 50 show up because the event goes on in obscurity or there's a big baseball game or whatever... more math.

2. Skateboard Racing is Penny Ante. It is, just deal with it. In the 1970's, sponsors poured money into skating because it helped them sell things. The skate companies didn't invest much (even G&S) in the grand scheme of things, and they don't now, either. Even the half-pipe/X-Games events aren't paid for by skateboard companies...rather shoes, drinks, shirts, etc... Those events, however, are promoted and generate returns for the sponsors. I don't know that RedBull ever sponsored slalom, but when they spend $$ on speed/gravity boarding and luge, it was because they received visibility and were able to buy into a sport that had an organization, organizers and racers that knew how to behave like racers. Hey, they had colorful leathers, interesting personalities, high speeds and were managed to keep the silly politics (still had them) behind the scenes.

These days, RedBull is gone and don't expect them back. When skate events and the sponsorship investments are promoted only to the skaters that show up at the races, don't expect smart businessmen to invest real soon, either. The wild spending by Mark McCree a few years ago isn't likely to repeat itself, regardless of the source, until and unless skateboard racing is able to present an image that's sellable. Frankly, I think slalom could be it and that events like the Worlds in Statesville, the races at Antrim, NH and similar events DO have a marketable image that's got a mixture of speed, stoke and fun.

If sponsors chip in the money to make an event profitable, like when Bud Light sponsors Top Challenge in Montreal, or when Euro IGSA scores corporate funding, then organizers have the ability to reduce racers' costs/increase payouts, AND to earn some money to compensate them for the whole thankless process.

The catch is, with most events taking place in a vacuum occupied only by the same old racers and a few local spectators, there's not a lot of sponsorship incentive. Heck, within our own industry, most sponsors are limiting their participation to schwag, and organizers are happy to get even that. Will sponsors sell their products enough to offset their investments if the races go on in obscurity without local, regional or national press/industry coverage? I don't know, but I bet you can figure it out on your own and whether or not it just makes sense to sponsor with schwag when the upside is only stoke.

3. Racers don't do their part. I can't tell you how many races I've been to with low spectator turnout (er, all of them, by other sports' standards) and heard racers complain that the organizers didn't get big crowds out there. Now, I'm willing to admit it's all Iocavelli's fault, but then everything is. More to the point, however, I have a habit of asking them, "Who'd you invite to come out?" The answer is always either, "Nobody" or ,"My Parent(s) who drove me here", and the attitude is that it's just not "our job" to get people to watch us skate. People are supposed to magically divine that the event is occuring, get interested and show up, right? Well, it's either that, or that Kenny Mollica ripped you off when he failed to pay for a cheering section, right?

I call bull on that. Kids come by our house to invite us to swim meets. I used to stand in front of the bike shop that sponsored us to race MTB and invite people to come out to the local races, and then asked every single person I knew to come cheer for us on the sidelines. Every skate event I ever competed in during the 1970's was populated on the sidelines by neighbors and whatnot that we'd all turned on or asked to come out. Today, it seems like just about every racer I hear complain about crowds is too busy whining about what he's owed than considering what he's brought (other than his illuminating presence and skillz). There are certainly exceptions, and more are needed: we're grass roots and the TV news isn't coming to cover a sparsely spectated event unless they're REALLY hard up or you live/race in Podunk.

If we want lower race fees, we need more crowds to support sponsors' perception that it's worth more than a deck, set of wheels or pile of bushings to them if they can get some recognition. We need press coverage in local press, regional press and even the internet. Some of these things are available with less effort than others, and some of them ARE the purvey of the race organizers. But until skateboard racers, as a class, can get some people to attend events and stop acting like spatting kids, the influx of big dollars for events will remain a rare, stroke of luck and race fees will have to be large to cover hard costs that never go down.

[Karl Floitgraf]

I want to apologize to Fatboy, Don,Cfav, Wes and especially Kenny because my post came off the wrong way. I'm stoked, maybe a little too stoked some times and I express my opinions in the wrong places at the wrong time. I'm just a college student working part time, and trying to figure out the sport of slalom during the rest. I know I've had old beef's with people in the past but I like to leave it there, in the past. I am trying to do my best to contribute as much to any event I am a part of.

This sport means a lot to me- I love it and everybody who skates slalom I consider my bro. I hope I can only add to events if I can be a part of them. So please I really mean it that I wasn't trying to complain about the Buckeye or any event- I just was interested in a discussion more similar to what Erik Basil posted. This whole day has humbled me, just trying to get through the next day and hit up some races- sometime I lose control of what I'm trying to express.

[Eddy Martinez]

Klark chill my brother. I do not think any of these bros hate you. They are speaking from years of experience. I have great respect for all the bros that chimed in. You are a college kid trying to make ends meet, understandable. We have all wittnessed you become a very good skater and more than likely will be a world champion some day. It takes a Big man to appologize, especially when you did not mean any harm to no one. Another day, another lesson learned. And you will learn many more. I hope Chicken Barrett Deck is proud to have you on his Team. I know you have a good heart my brother, how do I know this, because long after we are gone you will be out there promoting our sport.
Your Amigo Eddy TEXAS OUTLAWS/PAVEL FLO

[Jeff Goad]

its no wonder people thing this is a fag sport.
slalom is a money loser, just like me.
the act of slalom racing=lots of money.
thats mostley why i dont race.


slalom st louis $20.00 the past 5 years.


the rainbow train has crashed, its dead!

[Wesley Tucker]

Uhhhh, Jeff?

Doesn't the fact FOUR major races on the East Coast (da' Farm, Buckeye, Worlds and Dixie Cup) will attract over 60 racers each mean just the opposite? And each race is charging at least $100.

I mean, think about it: four races will bring in a total of at least $25,000 just from entry fees.

Maybe racing is dead from suffocating on all that cash?

[Dave Gale]

Wesley,
"All that cash?" Put Kenny's formula to work, and you'll see the tally!

[Wesley Tucker]

Wesley,
"All that cash?" Put Kenny's formula to work, and you'll see the tally!

Dave,

"All that cash." More than $25,000 comes from somewhere.

Kenny's formula has nothing to do with with how much COMES IN. His involves how much GOES OUT. Two totally different line items.

Pay attention. You might learn something.

[Pat Chewning]

Yes, big races cost a lot to put on. It is unfortunate, but most of those costs must be paid through entry fees. Contest organizers don't have a money tree.

Maybe someday we will be able to have the "IBM World Championships of Slalom" or the "Coors Colorado Cup".

In the mean time, we can be satisfied with racer-promoter (racer entry-fee paid) events like: "Kenny's Buckeye", "DHB Dixie Cup".

An intermediate step is an event sponsored by a skateboard manufacturer (along with entry fees) like the "Seismic National Championships" this year.

Another intermediate step is an event sponsored by a local sports-promotion group, like the "Oregon State Games".


I don't think it is wrong to ask the question about why races cost what they do, and whether or not the racers would prefer lower-cost (lower quality) races, or higher-cost (higher quality) races. Let your race promoter know if you would rather have $100 entry races with all of the current expectations, or a lower-cost race with lower expectations. Both type of events have their place, and my experience is that the enjoyment factor can be just as good with a BYOT (bring your own timer) grass-roots small event as with a big high-cost big-production race.



PS: Missing from Kenny's racing cost roll-up: Insurance.

[Dave Gale]

Wesley,
"All that cash?" Put Kenny's formula to work, and you'll see the tally!

Dave,

"All that cash." More than $25,000 comes from somewhere.

Kenny's formula has nothing to do with with how much COMES IN. His involves how much GOES OUT. Two totally different line items.

Pay attention. You might learn something.

Huh??? Wesley..wake up! Your scenario re: $25,000 being a drowning situation to 4 races, is like making a comparison that the hundreds of thousands of $'s spent annually on performance trucks and decks and wheels, is making the manufacturer's of those products filthy rich!
Your $25,000 is eaten up rather quickly by outside expenses! It's a small sum of monies dispersed among several entities,=ing a small sum, that I fail to be of a "drowning" threat!

I spent out of pocket $ on the Mountain State and have no questions re: 100.00 entry fees, I think that it is a very reasonable ticket price for advancement of the sport, and the benefit of all!

So...instead of preaching to the choir, repent!

[Kenny Mollica]

Eddie-

People do hate Karl. More than a few. I spoke with him last night and he seems not to notice how offensive he his. Many Karl haters are not "haters" by nature. He just rubs many in a bad way.

He has never bummed me out, but I have only been around him a total of 5 hours or so that I can remember.

Karl is paid and coming to the Buckeye Open. I know he has been riding a ton and is fast. I would never stop a racer from doing his thing. My gnarly post was not really in reaction to his post, but a reaction to a number of calls recently about him.

Since Chicken does not answer his phone, I have been running the "Karl complaint office".

I don't know how he does it, but most people are not stoked on him as a bro. The last person I remember being hated so much was Paul Dunn. He was smug and arrogant, but at least he was winning at the time.

People hate me, and I know it. I hated them first I think. But I think I know where I stand. The thing about Karl is he did not seem to know how offensive he's been to the slalom community.

He's going to grow up, get humbled by life, and look back some day.

I know you mean well Karl. A little self-reflection, and a little less ego goes along way. I know you guys are thinking, "right Kenny, coming from you". Let your skating do the talking and show a little more respect to your fellow racers (skaters).

Chicken is one of the best all-around skaters in the World and owns PPS. Might not say two words during a whole race weekend. People love him. We should all try to be a little more like Chicken.

Pat- the insurance was paid for by ISSA or whatever its called. ASSA. I dont know. Fluitt and Marion put it together. I did not want to pad my expenses. Those expenses are actual and not projected.

[Cat Young]

Wow!

I thought CMC was the most hated dude in slalom!

He hasn't mentioned how many chicks he's bringing to the Buckeye this year OR which one is paying his way!

C'mon Curt---- post something! It may take some heat off Karl!!!

Curt knows I'm just kidding!

Ha, Ha!

[Erik Basil]

Dave. Wes. Quit spatting over whether $25k is a lot of money. Who cares? The $25k number, whether it's right or wrong, is a sum of projected entry fees, and has nothing to do with whether races cost a lot to put on or are limited to "labors of love" by organizers.

Wouldn't it be better if the $25k number in Wes' calculations was the same, but the number of racers was tripled? Sure it would. It would be real neat if Paris Hilton would stop calling my house late at night, too, but some things just are what they are. For entry fees to go down, we need either major sponsor $$ (or other subsidies) or to reduce services. Math, right?

There have been some cost-cutting measures that have worked out well to improve the ratio of fee/benefits for several events. ASSA's group policy insurance is one such endeavor that we can see works to the benefit of racers at the Buckeye, for example. IGSA uses the same venue for many races and is able to store haybales and fencing there, all year. They bought a few hundred bails and make them last, so it costs them less to provide safety measures that don't show up at outlaw (or even GSI) speed races. La Costa Boys (Lynn Kramer) built up a set of turnkey "timing systems in a box" that can be rented and shipped so that events can have "pro-level timing" without a massive investment. Of course, there are also "cone donors" that bust out their personal supply of cones for large events and loads of volunteer labor at events, without which fees would be even higher.

Slalom is growing now, not dying off. Can the sport grow efficiently with entry fees as they are? Maybe. Would it be more attainable to new racers if it didn't cost as much to race in a major event? I don't know. I think of clinics and outlaws as the venues for recruitment, and we trade off big purses, nice shirts and insurance at those for stoke and recruitment.

[Jonathan Harms]

I didn't see Karl's original post that seemed to get Kenny, Wesley, Fatboy and Donald all riled up, but I hope it was just a misunderstanding or a case of bad timing. Kenny especially--I hope that was just the painkillers talking. I've spent a lot of time with the guy at several races in the past two years, and even when he is annoying (which I don't think is very often), he has nothing but respect for you, PPS, and slalomers in general. I know for a fact that he's helped bring a lot of new kids into slalom in the past year or two, and that at least a couple have bought PPS boards as a direct result of his influence.

Now, maybe Karl was out of line. But damn. That's some tough love.

[Dave Gale]

Dave. Wes. Quit spatting over whether $25k is a lot of money. Who cares? The $25k number, whether it's right or wrong, is a sum of projected entry fees, and has nothing to do with whether races cost a lot to put on or are limited to "labors of love" by organizers.

Wouldn't it be better if the $25k number in Wes' calculations was the same, but the number of racers was tripled? Sure it would. It would be real neat if Paris Hilton would stop calling my house late at night, too, but some things just are what they are. For entry fees to go down, we need either major sponsor $$ (or other subsidies) or to reduce services. Math, right?

There have been some cost-cutting measures that have worked out well to improve the ratio of fee/benefits for several events. ASSA's group policy insurance is one such endeavor that we can see works to the benefit of racers at the Buckeye, for example. IGSA uses the same venue for many races and is able to store haybales and fencing there, all year. They bought a few hundred bails and make them last, so it costs them less to provide safety measures that don't show up at outlaw (or even GSI) speed races. La Costa Boys (Lynn Kramer) built up a set of turnkey "timing systems in a box" that can be rented and shipped so that events can have "pro-level timing" without a massive investment. Of course, there are also "cone donors" that bust out their personal supply of cones for large events and loads of volunteer labor at events, without which fees would be even higher.

Slalom is growing now, not dying off. Can the sport grow efficiently with entry fees as they are? Maybe. Would it be more attainable to new racers if it didn't cost as much to race in a major event? I don't know. I think of clinics and outlaws as the venues for recruitment, and we trade off big purses, nice shirts and insurance at those for stoke and recruitment.

Erik,
I aint no "spatterer" and I agree Wes' $ figure was out of thin air..I am simply stating that the entry fees go to offset the costs of promoting a race!
Enjoy,
Dave G

[Ron Barbagallo]

y'know Bas, for a guy I ain't ever seen at a race, you sure have a handle on things!

Nicely done E


I agree, outlaw and smaller races are definitely the recruiting place. Take it from me, I almost bailed on slalom when I showed up at the Farm as my first race. VERY intimidating, not monetarily - but the course and level of skating. Slalom racers should be introduced to competitions at a lower level - both financially and coursewise.

But major races should be a major event - shirts, food, afterparty, swag. AND that means money. I didn't mind shellin' out $100 for the Dixie Cup because I didn't have a care in the world once I got to the hotel. Marion and the Boyz took care of EVERTHING - from directions to everything, to food on the hill, to quality courses, even down to fuckin' MOON PIES!!!

Do teenagers have that kinda dough? Maybe not. But parents of teens do, and they are the ones that are most likely gonna be bringin' their kids there. And as much as that may run Pops for a race, I'm sure he'd rather spend it on racing then on bail to get the little bastard out for stealin' a car or shootin' smack - right Dads?

I personally, and MANY others of you as well, would happily welcome a teen who got the dough together and somehow got himself there to race - even if he sucked as badly as I do! That's just how we are, and that's why we get people to stay on after their first race - by being accomodating and friendly.

Sponsorship would be great, but that is a double edged sword. With it will come more racers who might NOT be so accomodating and friendly. Not that I'm against progress or anything, it's just something to be aware of.

oh and Karl, apologies are nice. First, try not to be a dick.

[Wesley Tucker]

Erik,
I aint no "spatterer" and I agree Wes' $ figure was out of thin air..

Really?

The Buckeye is $100. So far 80 skaters have registered. If ONLY 70 show up that's $7000
The Farm was announced YESTERDAY and already 38 have announced. 60 showing up would be $6000
The Worlds is $130. NINETY EIGHT have signed up. IF ONLY 70 PAY that's $9100
The Dixie Cup is limited to 54 at $80 a piece (last year's price). That's $4320

$7000
$6000
$9100
$4320
__________
$26,420

That's IF ONLY 70 pay for some races and doesn't include The Nationals or La Costa. This "dead" sport as Goad calls it will see skaters pay over $35,000 in registration fees in just a little over five months.

Anymore "thin air" you'd care to describe, Dave, or is this where you shut up and stop making an ill-informed, babbling fool of yourself?

[Wesley Tucker]

Erik,

My point had nothing to do with whether or not races should cost more, less or whatever. My point is a couple of hundred different skaters all over America are coughing up $25, $30 or more thousand dollars in just a short time to participate in races.

That's a long ways away from anything being "dead."

You have to understand, it's a "Goad" thing.

I could care less about Dave Gale's inability to comprehend a simple logical process. That's his problem.

[Dave Gale]

Erik,
I aint no "spatterer" and I agree Wes' $ figure was out of thin air..

Really?

The Buckeye is $100. So far 80 skaters have registered. If ONLY 70 show up that's $7000
The Farm was announced YESTERDAY and already 38 have announced. 60 showing up would be $6000
The Worlds is $130. NINETY EIGHT have signed up. IF ONLY 70 PAY that's $9100
The Dixie Cup is limited to 54 at $80 a piece (last year's price). That's $4320

$7000
$6000
$9100
$4320
__________
$26,420

That's IF ONLY 70 pay for some races and doesn't include The Nationals or La Costa. This "dead" sport as Goad calls it will see skaters pay over $35,000 in registration fees in just a little over five months.

Anymore "thin air" you'd care to describe, Dave, or is this where you shut up and stop making an ill-informed, babbling fool of yourself?

Wesley... You moron, the term "thin air" was a simple term for a simple..uh... man! It matters not what dollar amount you affix to the equation , my point is simple but true...The more you charge, the more you spend (or vice versa) It has nothing to do with your "specific " 4 race totals. Just simple economics.

[Dave Gale]

I could care less about Dave Gale's inability to comprehend a simple logical process. That's his problem.

It seems to be more of your problem than anyone elses! Good God...what don't you understand?
The logic is right there..posted several times by several people.."Grasp It"

[Robert J Herten]

I know how to settle ALL of these fights! Bronsons Canyon, Midnight!!! A JOUST!! YOU BE THERE!!!!!!

[Paul Graf]

Hey Dave,

I'm waiting for another Bridge Day - MSS contest. That was my 1st race. It cost me $65 and I didn't even qualify.

Lets recap:

1. I did get to see people jump off a perfectly good bridge.
2. See some great racing
3. Listen to WesE sing Led Zeppelin
4. Listen a story about Gilmore flying to the contest at the last minute in a piper cub & win.


Priceless...

If you are never going to have another MSS, please don't tell. Just let a boy dream.

PG

[Dave Gale]

Paul...
The 1st MSSS was the year after LaCosta's return in 2001. It was a blast, and gave more Easternly bound racers a go of it! I'm glad you had a good time!!
I will, if opportunity allows host more MSSS races in the future, my schedule and town politics are prohibitive for that weekend righ now..They have been trying to get a race held during "Heritage Week" and will keep all posted!

[Erik Basil]

Erik, My point had nothing to do with whether or not races should cost more, less or whatever.

I know. My suggestion is that, were anything worth discussing, it might be the costs of racing and Karl's original query.

Who cares whether somebody claims "_______ is dead" ? People can think what they want to. Michael Bream (Gravity) loves to say that DH and Slalom are both dead...but he stays away from races and events with increasing attendance by new skaters (not just the fast old guys). Goad might think slalom is dead, but the number of races is increasing and there's new blood on the track at many of them. So why argue about what we can see at the courses and clinics?

Hey, it's fun to watch you and Dave yell, "Jane, you ignorant slut" at one another, too. Not saying it isn't.

[Dave Gale]

For the record.. I never called Wes a "Slut" ignorant or educated! A whore..maybe....A slut, never!

Gotta love Akroyd

[Brian Parsons]

I am not sure if WT is a "slut" or not. But he does seem to love those Cocks.


HeeHee

[Wesley Tucker]

I am not sure if WT is a "slut" or not. But he does seem to love those Cocks.

HeeHee

And your POINT would be?

[Lenny Poage]

Paul...
The 1st MSSS was the year after LaCosta's return in 2001. It was a blast, and gave more Easternly bound racers a go of it! I'm glad you had a good time!!
I will, if opportunity allows host more MSSS races in the future, my schedule and town politics are prohibitive for that weekend righ now..They have been trying to get a race held during "Heritage Week" and will keep all posted!

Keep us posted! I'm an hour closer to F-ville now and the budding H-ton crew (up 500% since I moved here-- you guessed it, 6 of us now get together!!) would be stoked to come race and help!

Fatboy, I agree full-on with your last post!

[Ron Barbagallo]

Fatboy, I agree full-on with your last post!

even though I sometimes ride a sixer?

[Eddy Martinez]

GO SPEED RACER GO SPEED RACER GO.

Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outaws/Pavel Flo

And you Sir JBH of the Rusty Dagger put on a shirt man.

[Jonathan Harms]

I like to scare my opponents. Or weaken them by making them double over in laughter. Either way.

[Curt DeBartolo]

Wow!

I thought CMC was the most hated dude in slalom!

He hasn't mentioned how many chicks he's bringing to the Buckeye this year OR which one is paying his way!

C'mon Curt---- post something! It may take some heat off Karl!!!

Curt knows I'm just kidding!

Ha, Ha!

Cat, You know that I love you dearly, from the very few moments that we have shared, the sea, the wine, and you my love. Haha... I recently had one that was going to drive me there and supply the food. I have $3.00 in one bank account and -$30 in another.
But you have a nice truck dont you Curt? Yes, a woman bought it for me.
I decided to give the women a break for the Buckeye..well...I did advertise to many local hotties in the Columbus area on Myspace to attend and bring there friends(all over 18 Gilmour ). So this week, I had to travel to Vt with the last $40 that I had and have been sweating, busting balls, being harrased by deer flies, cutting down trees, and risking my life to get Kenny the $100 to race because its gonna kick some royal ass. Hey..gotta run...my free massage appointment is in ten minutes...
Karl...you are my friend and I enjoy racing with you..but i must say....I laughed my ass off when Kenny blasted you....this shit is great...

[Cat Young]

I don't care if I have to get a 2nd job slinging martinis to drunk, horny old men at the Country Club bar. I will do whatever it takes (legally, of course!) to earm enough money for my slalom entry fees & travel, room, food, etc......

I am having too much damn fun to complain about the cost of entry fees! Hell, I'd gladly pay double what ya'll are asking just to have the chance to be with my new "slalom family" & do what I LOVE ---- slalom!

Ya'll are some of the nicest folks I have EVER had the good chance to meet! I will NEVER quit this sport.

Slalom dead????? Not if I have anything to say about it!

So, if you'll excuse me now..... I have to go.... I'm a little busy here.


See ya at the Buckeye! Do you think Kenny will keep his clothes on this year?

[Dave Gale]

HEY!!!! I think Miss Young just insulted the male population of this earth..I'm not sure, but I think she did!
Oh... and about the "kitty" uhh.. uhh.. I aint typin' what's I want to say uhh..uhh.. no Way!

[Curt DeBartolo]

Cat....hmmmm

[Kenny Mollica]

CMC-

I did not get your email. You did not leave your phone number.

Karl did not deserve the abuse from me and I am sorry I was so harsh. I would not give a crap about what he does, but he does ride for PPS, which I am very loyal to. His behavior is a reflection on PPS.

He is coming to the Buckeye, and I am sure will have fun and do well.

Peace

[Mark McCree]

Hello GUYS, Remember me?????

I'm still paying for the 380 k I spent on races from jan. 2003 to oct. 2005. But it was FUN.

Let's see, Paris '05 cost 35k. Stockholm '05----28k

$100.00 ????? -----Cigar money man.

Love all you guys, I just had to say HI.......... Later

PS. It wasn't DADDIES money either.

Mark McCree