Turner setup advice wanted

Tim Robinson · Post by **Tim Robinson** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:25 am

Bara has given me some excellent advice but I am after everyones opinion on setting up this 1997 Turner. I want it to be true to its vintage. Trucks , wheels , risers, etc......the best that was available at the time.
Any history and ideas very welcome.
Thanks Tim

Joachim Leonhardt · Post by **Joachim Leonhardt** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:01 pm

maybe fulltracks (or mid-tracks) with grey tracker riser pads
Road Rider 4 or RR Hester-wheels or Kryptonics (later) C-62 with sims racing bearings

just an idea

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:13 pm

Well, if it's vintage "1997" (which surprises me a bit,) I'd say any truck from the 1980s as there was no slalom specific equipment in the 90s. Maybe a Tracker with the composite (plastic) baseplate or an Indy 109. Of course, there was the composite German Seismic, but good luck finding a pair of those!

As for wheels, I think the only thing going 10 years ago was the Hyper Strada roller skate wheel. A lot of guys were using them for slalom as their 15- to 20-year old RRs, OJs and Kryps started to die.

Risers and bearings are easy: anything made of hard plastic with an old-school bolt pattern and some Bones. That's about as vintage 1997 you're going to get.

Tim Robinson · Post by **Tim Robinson** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 9:44 pm

Wesley , why does the date suprise you? Its my first Turner and I'm after any bit of info I can get.
Thanks Tim

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:48 pm

Tim,

I didn't know Bobby built anything in the mid-1990s. I know he built some Blackbirds for Gilmour around 1991 or so, but anything between then and 2000 would surprise me.

I'm not arguing with CBara, but I'd think your board might be closer to 5 or 6 years old rather than 9 or 10. Then again, BT may very well have put together some one-offs sporadically all through the 1990s. Chris may know this better than me. Other good sources to ask are Tiger Williams and Lynn Kramer or maybe Paul Dunn. They were in close contact with both Bobby before his death and Bobby's widow, Peggy. They may shed some more light on the timeline for your machine.

Either way, it's a gorgeous deck. Bobby did black glas better than anyone. Rick Howell has said emphatically that you probably will never get a black Ick. He hates black tints for resins.

ur13 · Post by **ur13** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:11 pm

Wesley Tucker wrote:Tim,

I didn't know Bobby built anything in the mid-1990s. I know he built some Blackbirds for Gilmour around 1991 or so, but anything between then and 2000 would surprise me.

I'm not arguing with CBara, but I'd think your board might be closer to 5 or 6 years old rather than 9 or 10. Then again, BT may very well have put together some one-offs sporadically all through the 1990s. Chris may know this better than me. Other good sources to ask are Tiger Williams and Lynn Kramer or maybe Paul Dunn. They were in close contact with both Bobby before his death and Bobby's widow, Peggy. They may shed some more light on the timeline for your machine.

Either way, it's a gorgeous deck. Bobby did black glas better than anyone. Rick Howell has said emphatically that you probably will never get a black Ick. He hates black tints for resins.

A little history....

The board is a 2001....but 1997 could be refering to the core of the needlenose. The early needlenoses of the rebirth of Turner, made in late 2001 were using old cores the Bobby had shaped and partly finished in the late 1990s (after the Seismic Turners and for Gilmour as I remember). They still had the Seismic Turner needlenose shoulders (this was before Bobby's 2002 redesign) and the materials (glass, resins) were what Bobby had left over in the shop from the Seismic Turners of the early 1990s...that is why there were all black topped and green bottoms as those were the colors he had left. It is also why those black and green needlenoses rode SO well compared to the other early rebirth Turners which, frankly, sucked ("good" new turners didn't come out until mid to late 2002).

As I remember there were only a handful (maybe 4 or 5) of these black/green needlenoses finished for the very first orders for "Turner Downhill" that Howard got together. I had one, in fact I think Bara bought it so that might even be the one I had and it was probably the third best Turner I ever rode and the best one I ever owned. The board was amazing for hybrid and open TS courses.

Setup....
Tracker fulltracks with carbon fiber (or nylon) baseplates, rad pads and white avalons....

If you want to be "period" for it....you need...
Tracker fulltracks, B2 baseplates, 11* wedges and black Turner La Costas with the pink (82a) stripe.....

Tim Robinson · Post by **Tim Robinson** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:54 pm

Guys , thank you for so much info. I'm on the look out for some never used black turner wheels for this deck. If any one has a set they don't want. Also would a TCC rear truck be correct on this deck?
Thanks tim

Michael Stride · Post by **Michael Stride** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:23 pm

Might be able to help with the wheels, perhaps even the special spacers too. Any preference as to colours of the rings ie hardness on the black wheels?

David Baker · Post by **David Baker** » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:49 pm

I have two complete sets of the black La Costas that have never been ridden...
dabspok@yahoo.com
email me if your interested.

Christopher Bara · Post by **Christopher Bara** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:06 pm

Dang, i have to start frequenting this site again.

Chris, thanks for that explaination. I had some of those facts down, but never knew the whole story of the Seismic/Turner Green/Black connection.
The board in Tims hands came from Pengo in Texas...he's always had a penchant for collecting rarities.

Actually, i do still have that fullnose i bought from you Chris S, i've toyed with a couple paint jobs on it and it's taken apart right now for a strip down and redo...it's purdy but has that huge camber and i never could ride it comfortably.....but it's beautiful and i like looking at it, so it's not going anywhere.

Here's a pic of the only older cutaway (not needlenose) I've ever owned.

Vince made it, not sure of the year though....(I'm guessing 2002)

Tim, UR13 was riding for Turner at that time....he'd be one of the best sources for a set up in that era. If you wanted older set up info, well....Wes Tucker is STILL riding them, he's got it down.

By the way, i've got a pair of Grey nylon silver spring G-Truck German Seismics laying around somewhere

ur13 · Post by **ur13** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:49 pm

Christopher Bara wrote:Chris, thanks for that explanation. I had some of those facts down, but never knew the whole story of the Seismic/Turner Green/Black connection.

Just to clarify. The needlenose under discussion is NOT a Seismic/Turner. Those date from the early 90s. The cores I refered to were shaped by Bobby for (I think) John Gilmour in the mid 90s, of which there were maybe 12 needlenoses and 8 fullnoses (John, want to clarify?). Bobby did use some of the left over material he had from the Seismic Turners as far as glass/foam for the early Turner Downhills but the Seismic turners were different beats...slightly bigger. I rode a 34" (?) Seismic Turner needlenose that TK owned way back when, like 2000/01..AMAZING board. Due to the shared materials they rode alot like the one in this topic, which rode alot different than the ones Bobby made new in 2000/01.

Christopher Bara wrote:The board in Tims hands came from Pengo in Texas...he's always had a penchant for collecting rarities.

It still might be the one I owned/raced as I sold a needlenose to someone in TX. I can't remember which one it was, I had 3.

Christopher Bara wrote:Actually, i do still have that fullnose i bought from you Chris S, i've toyed with a couple paint jobs on it and it's taken apart right now for a strip down and redo...it's purdy but has that huge camber and i never could ride it comfortably.....but it's beautiful and i like looking at it, so it's not going anywhere.

...I warned you when I sold it to you...there was a reason I named that board "Hell Bitch"...

Tim Robinson · Post by **Tim Robinson** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:00 am

So ........ just checking........this deck is 1 of maybe 5 made by???? in 2001 using a core shaped by bobby in about 1997 originally for the seismic turners ,and using green and black because thats all he had laying around. It was made for the "Turner Downhill" that Howard had organised.
Is this correct?

David baker has kindly parted with a set of new la Costas with the pink duro line and also 2 sets of used ones.
Now i need to find some carbon tracker base plates.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:23 am

Christopher Bara wrote:Wes Tucker is STILL riding them, he's got it down.

Ah, Chris, my boy, you are so far behind the times. All my vintage stuff is now OFFICIALLY RETIRED. I rode my stiff red cut away at the Farm vintage in '05, but that's it. I now got new Icks, the Blackbird, a PP Stealth and some Roe Unlimiteds.

As far as setting up a board that would approach a '70s set up, I'd suggest sticking with the basics: Trackers, Indys, Road Riders, Kryptonics and maybe OJs.

Christopher Bara · Post by **Christopher Bara** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:38 am

...and word has it you've gotten some moxie in your game this spring too WT!....good times you've been posting.

Tim, pretty hard to put a number on the boards made in the black/green lot....i'm thinking there were a few more than that...none the less, keep in mind that Turners were never production boards, all were "made to order", so they all have a level of craftmanship and value that you just dont get in most other boards.

As for the baseplates, i've never seen a carbon Tracker baseplate.....but you can get the nylon ones NOS at this website

http://oldschoolskates.com/detail.aspx?ID=668

you even have 4 colors to choose from and it's allot cheaper than on Ebay

ur13 · Post by **ur13** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:42 am

Tim Robinson wrote:So ........ just checking........this deck is 1 of maybe 5 made by???? in 2001 using a core shaped by bobby in about 1997 originally for the sims turners ,and using green and black because thats all he had laying around. It was made for the "Turner Downhill" that Howard had organised.
Is this correct?

David baker has kindly parted with a set of new la Costas with the pink duro line and also 2 sets of used ones.
Now i need to find some carbon tracker base plates.

You are correct, as far as I know/remember. There can't be more than 4-5 of those black/green needlenoses from that 01 batch. I can remember where 4 went, mine included, maybe that was all there was. There were also one or two red/white needlenoses and I vaguely remember a Yellow/red needlenose as well. All the early Turner downhill decks, the first batch to fill the early orders, were needlenoses. Gilmour had cleaned out the fullnose cores/decks and blackbirds in the 90s.

Tracker gnarly pivot Carbon fiber baseplates (well graphite actually) are rare. I bought them directly from Buddy Carr at Tracker at Avila beach in 02. If you really want them, give Tracker a call and talk to Buddy. Otherwise standard "ultralite" baseplates will work fine, even Aggro baseplates are cool (prefer by a few). Rad pads should be easy to find on ebay now-a-days.

Basically look at the 2001 Turner Downhills as a mix of the old and new. At the time there just wasn't alot of new slalom stuff around, most people still used NOS trackers and Hyper strada wheels. Indy 101s were around new but they never felt right on a Turner to me. The Turner "La Costas" and abec 11 "stinger" were the first new slalom specific wheels and both hit in late 00/01 (right guys or am I a year off)? So mixing old parts (trackers, rad pads) and new (la costas) is 100% correct for this deck. Anything older would need NOS crap from the 70s, anythign newer would get Avalons and any number of "slalom" trucks.

Tim Robinson · Post by **Tim Robinson** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:17 am

So here it is.

Tim Robinson · Post by **Tim Robinson** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:25 am

1 more pic

Dave Gale · Post by **Dave Gale** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:49 pm

You done well! One question tho. Where the hell are the mounting bolt heads?? It appears to be simply resting on the trucks!

Marty Agather · Post by **Marty Agather** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:48 pm

Tim, Nice work. You can come over to my house and set up mine any time you'd like.

If you aren't going to ride that thing, can I give it a spin?? I promise I'll give it back.....

Eric Brammer · Post by **Eric Brammer** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:44 am

Tim, that's a nice looking ride!!

As I mentioned to you before, though, do try not to use those plastic-based Trackers very hard. I simply don't trust them entirely, as I've seen them flex where baseplates should simply NOT flex. The good news is that RTS bases fit Gnarly hangers, and you can find metal bases again if you look for them...

A nice touch is the use of Stimulators, (Good for Bombing at 110 Kph or faster, but not right Up Front for Slalom) however for Slalom, use TK-05 Rubber Tracker bushings on the front truck. Keep a sharp eye out for those rare-ish light-blue super-soft Tracker bushings, as those are Perfect up front on a Needle-Nose. I especially like your using Turner LaCostas, as they simply Look the Best on an old Turner.

P.S., Yeah, and how did you mount the trucks without the bolt tops showing thru?
I also think I have this right, that the black/green boards would be from the late 80's/early 90's, and would also be pretty much made by custom order, though Peggy, Vince, or JG would know better than I do. Those are RARE, though, and worthy of care and preservation. That said, Ride It, even if gently. Nothing made by Turner summer Ski was ever meant to sit around and collect dust...

Tim Robinson · Post by **Tim Robinson** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:27 am

The no bolt look is thanks to photoshop. I only have 4 socket head cap screws in the right length , the others are only normal big round head ugly things. So i cheated for the photo and when its on my wall you can't tell the diff. Yes green NOS stims , also have some yellow ones. top bush is wrong I know. Still looking. Bearings are Sims racing and risers are by Rad Pad. I run these risers on my other Turner under Radikals and love them. The Tracker base plates are nylon , not plastic. I have another set on a rider and have had no problems but I don't do silly stuff on them. I must say after just spending the afternoon on my red Turner Araura i realy hope the new range of turners will have a wider rear foot area. I still want to find a summer ski to ride. One day.....

Dave Gale · Post by **Dave Gale** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:37 pm

Good job, Tim..As far as the mounting hardware, I like to have the rear 2 of front truck bolts protrude a bit. I feel them through my sole and know my foot placement . That's the one downfall of the cut-aways is your front foot drifting forward, past the full width point of the deck..especially w/ the grip tape you have on it! Also, thanks to photoshop, can't tell if you used (seal washers) or another type/named washer that cushions the head /deck contact point! It's crucial when wanting to preserve the topskin.. And I HIGHLY recommend their use!

Tim Robinson · Post by **Tim Robinson** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:06 pm

Yes there are rubber washers under oversized stainless washers and the bolts are screwed through the deck before putting the nut on so the holes stay tight.

Marty Agather · Post by **Marty Agather** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:44 am

Photoshop - damn.

I was hoping that you had countersunk the heads, used some way cool method to anchor the bolt heads so that they wouldn't turn, and then filled the holes and polished until you couldn't tell. I don't know that you could make it work for a rider, but for a wall hanger - just maybe.

Oh yeah, I was kidding about giving it back. That won't be a problem, will it?

Dave Gale · Post by **Dave Gale** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:41 am

Oddly 'nuff, I was worried he'd done just that! Turners are basically a torsion box type construction and the outer skins are their strength. NEVER let a mounting screw penetrate the skin! Or it will be a "wall hanger" And that would upset Bobby!

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:13 pm

As I remember..

I ordered a buch of Turners from Bobby in 1989. About 4 years later I got them. The cores were from San Diego which he brought with him to Dulzura, Oregon.

Bobby and Peggy decided to leave San Diego in hopes of a better life in Oregon. However Bobby never knew what the weather was like up there. He finished a lot of those boards with numb fingers in the cold- winter came early there.

The board apprears to be a Dulzura shape to me. You'll see very good bonding in these oards- but if mounted too far apart- if the boards are over flexed...the cores will totally break down.
You should consider mounting VERY VERY far off the nose and get within 1- .5 inches of the rear cap.

Don't get more than 20 inches inner to inner screw (the board will die in a year).. better would be like 17.5-19.0 inches.

Make sure you drill flat-don't score the top fiberglass at ALL! And use large diameter dome screws with neoprene washers and when its winter time.storage time---- back off the screws a few turns to depressurize the board on ANY foam core.

Adam Daniels · Post by **Adam Daniels** » Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:49 pm

back them off? thanks for the info. i'll go do that now to my wefunk and turner

seeing those pictures posted above really makes me want to get another turner. can't wait to rip mine at the farm this upcoming year

Dave Gale · Post by **Dave Gale** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:54 am

J.G brings up a few VERY good points! Even if your foam core boards aren't the specific series spoken og here, most require special T.L.C to preserve their integrity. If I remember Brian P. had his new ROE "de-compose" on a hot 4th of July in Boston..Temperature extremes or brutal on foam decks...especially ones with no stringers or wood skins. I've also seen numerous "Needle Nose" /Cutaways redrilled further out, past the shoulders to get longer wheel base..DON'T ! Live w/ it the way Bobby intended. Personally, I like the looks of a droopy nose hangin' out , and ride them at speeds and tightness they were meant! And also, mount that puppy w/ your feet near the trucks and try not to flex the thing to it's limits,or beyond.
I've got a Fullnose thats pushing 30 years old that I still take out for a Sunday afternoon romp!
Other than a few hundred stress cracks in the clear, it rides like a 64' Ferrari.

Adam Daniels · Post by **Adam Daniels** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:19 am

i want a ferrari

Dave Gale · Post by **Dave Gale** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:40 am

Adam.. You've achieved the first step! Treat your vintage Turner like a lady and set your next goal higher.

Adam Daniels · Post by **Adam Daniels** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:33 pm

it is indeed a lady, it is on pink risers and wheels

Nick Chamberlain · Post by **Nick Chamberlain** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:52 pm

Adam Daniels wrote:back them off? thanks for the info. i'll go do that now to my wefunk and turner

seeing those pictures posted above really makes me want to get another turner. can't wait to rip mine at the farm this upcoming year

on the wefunk it should really be needed because they have wood where the trucks are mounted, not foam. Also Im wondering what you think of yours compared to other foam cores like pps. I came across a very good deal on one for less then what a pps foam core would normally be

Adam Daniels · Post by **Adam Daniels** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:54 pm

you mean it shouldn't really be needed?

i really like my wefunk, but i haven't ridden any other foam cores

also----i think this winter i may hunt down an old 70's rad for my turner

Nick Chamberlain · Post by **Nick Chamberlain** » Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:28 pm

yea, thats what I meant to say. just wondering, how much did you pay for yours?

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