Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

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Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby EMRIK LARSSON » Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:07 pm

Without taking anything away from Robert and the staff who really worked hard and tried their best, and on sunday held a really great race!, there are a few things you really should consider for future WC races.. at least in regions where rain is a factor ( as in both Riga and Stuttgart).

1. You should always a have a clear backup plan that can be carried out in case of bad weather, and a plan that can be changed rapidly as well. In other words an ok indoor place to race at least 25-30 ( or more) cones. I know that it’s hard to find those places, but I think that should be one of the top priorities when it comes to arranging a race, at least in northern Europe. I mean, we spend a lot of money traveling, and if the weather’s bad at least we can race, we don’t care, as long as there’s a good race, indoors or outdoors..

2. There should be more than one person in charge of the race. In Gothenburg 2008, we were 3 people who had different areas in which we handled all the things concerning the race. And also during the actual races we had different tasks, and different people were responsible for the riders, the courses, and everything in between. I know that we failed in some areas in 2008, but we took fast decisions and also had an indoor venue that could be used at any time.

3. IN the biggest races there must be a priority change, that the top riders get the prime time slots, and that you always try to have the pro’s and the best riders race when there’s an audience present.

4. There must be a professional speaker, an MC who gets both the riders and the crowd pumped up..at least when the best racers do their thing.
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Donald Campbell » Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:15 am

here are a few thoughts about kids and juniors coming from my side
first of all i agree with what has been said above

kids and juniors should only be allowed to participate at the worlds when they have race experience!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there were a lot of kids with little or no experience
i do not want to see those at the worlds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
they take time away from other important events and make the worlds look not credible

kids are groundwork and this needs to be done-i completely agree with that-but not at the worlds
for my taste there was too much emphasis on the kids/juniors division and most older riders went home with 2 runs a day

if you want to criticize me and my oppinion please consider that we put a kid into the race and we took him to other races,he is a world champ now,yes,but
we made sure that he earned his way to that contest showing a certain level of race experience!
also,i would be the first one to say no to the kid,if he wouldn't be able to deliver.well,he did-but we made sure that he had the background to do so.
so i brought a kid into the game and he had to participate at other races(racing on the courses of the grown-ups and he did well there and yes he's 12 years old) to be worthy enough to participate.
i invsted a lot of time into vincent,so did the rest of us helping him out giving advice setting up his stuff(thnks to martin hoppe especially,dom was there,homer too!!!!!!!)

do you get my point?

there were kids accompanied by their dad through the course.

no ill will against the family or the kids but these were the worlds?

the worlds need a certain credibility!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

working with juniors and kids is supercool and will be the last one to walk away from this
but on the other hand i will be the first one to complain about contestants who appear to enter this contes format as a fun weekend thing to say so
i for myself think that i don't want to see this anymore!

also comments on the time frames:
we did brixlegg with the pro and am division divided ams till noon and pros afterwards
this worked really well

now we have the open class
we need to do 2 runs and then go into brackets to make sure there is enough racing happening

it can't be that people who pay 1500 usd(brad jackman,f.e.) race 2 times and then its done

also the question of the masters class needs to be clarified once and for all
is there a masters at the worlds or not?
ot does the organizer decide for himself in the very last second about it?
we saw tons of trophies for the kids and juniors and so on-where were the masters?
there was an initial listing of that group in the registration.
nothing was there at the race.

the masters are those idiots who do this thing for years and years
they supported the sport for a loooooooooong time
they should not have been ignored at the worlds

these are a few of my thougths and please keep in mind that i am not trying to provocate or dis anybody here-but there should be a talk about those points mentioned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Donald Campbell
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Jani Soderhall » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:08 am

Donald,

I agree about not giving kids high priority, but we cannot have a selection of who gets to ride or not. But we can decide to skip that class completely for the Worlds. I was the one who originally decided not to have a Juniors class in Paris. Nowadays we do, but MAIN and Major level racing is not really meant for kids.

But, do we want to discourage them? Certainly not, but it's not really a World Championships race for them. It's just a fun event to get them involved too. And it's cute for the spectators. As long as we're not wasting valuable time, it's certainly worth having them.

I'll bring it up for a discussion with the BOD for future race guidelines.

/Jani
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Donald Campbell » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:31 am

jani, partially agree with what you say-also understand your point of view.
we should get that topic discussed soon

can you share your thoughts about the other 2 topics i touched?

also richy asked a valid and important question,can we also try to answer this one please?
after all they made the effort to come to the worlds
as i write this i recall having donated 150 euros extra prize purse for the rider that had the longest flight to the race
that was a cash prize-i guess louis ricard or the sk8kings crew qualified for this one?
what happened to the money and the purpose it was meant for?
maybe robert can chime in a bring a bit light into this????
Donald Campbell
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Peter Pletanek » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:40 am

PS: Robert is on holiday and has no internet, but I am sure he will answer your questions asap.
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Jani Soderhall » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:51 am

Donald Campbell wrote:jani, can you share your thoughts about the other 2 topics i touched?

I don't have enough information to comment upon any of the other questions raised.

/Jani
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Richy Carrasco » Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:03 pm

I have been saying this for a long time around here, Pros first and finish, womens and Masters. You have to have a Masters division because they are a group that has been and continue to support the scene by traveling and showing up ready to race! Open Class and Juniors are super import and get the next slot with different courses. The Pros need Pro courses!
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Jani Soderhall » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:34 pm

I think the latest practise (thinking it will not rain) has been "juniors in the morning, PRO/AM at the best part of the day, then women". Obviously now that we have the feeling it's raining at every race, we have the feeling it's all chaotic, and then you have to be ready to adapt the schedule on location. Which was done in Stuttgart, but maybe not enough.


Sorry if this thread has now been hijacked to discuss event organisation, but judging from the Facebook topics circulating over at FB, there are still plenty of good vibes in the aftermath of Stuttgart. Thanks Robert for the work you did!

/Jani
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Donald Campbell » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:15 pm

jani-nobody is ungarteful here and just to make this clear:it's not about badmouthing a single perseon and his efforts.
richy has made some valid points here,so did i.
we should just discuss further on and come to solutions a lot of racers want to have.
we do have a discussion here now and we should be aware of a big majority of racers who remain silent.
they share the same feelings in most cases but they remain silent.
until one day they just won't come to a race anymore because they are fed up and started to question tmeselves what the expenses they made were good for.
facebook shows a lot of positive moments which are captured in pics.but the pics do not reflect the actual event.they only reflect certain situations..whatever...
there is also a too large group of people that were unhappy.
i,formyself,think that any result be it euro champs of world champs should be legit.
legit means for me having done finals.
i honestly think that the riga results also suck due to the circumstances of the weather
stuttgart is the same for me.
i am playing with open cards and i do not want to sweettalk here,i guess i am not good at that as we all know.
but seeing a result which f.e makes joe mac a world champ or dom a euro champ(lets just take these 2 guys as an example) and knowing those results
have been achieved under irregular circumstances(riga had the indoor solution with slippery ground,stuttgart only 2 runs)makes it hard to believe that a euro or a world champ rightfully earned his title.
i mean like hey where is the glory????????????????????????????????????????
the issa tries hard to look serious and professional but with the acceptance of those results it is far away from being so in my eyes.
i'm mellow,not provocative and i just want to express my thoughts.i enjoy going to select races,i enjoy supporting those and supporting my team-in fact i try to see a lot of things from a distance these days
and i really do not want to get involved into any kind of argument,simply because its not worth it,especially here in the internet.
i honestly want to share info and create a positive discussion.
lets hope we see such a thing happening here!!!!!!!!!!!!



bottom line is:we all should thrive to make races as memorable as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so robert did his best to say so,but there are certain points which need to be discussed for future races.
lets take the important suggestions and move forward to more improvement and also to more satisfaction after having attended a race.
Donald Campbell
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Steve Pederson » Thu Aug 09, 2012 2:43 am

It was good of Robert to offer to host the race when no others were able to.

Jani, Maybe you can move these posts to another section since they are meant to be helpful for organizing next year's races. Right now, a number of posts on this same topic are scattered in different sections. Maybe putting them together in one section would be helpful. Thanks.
Steve Pederson
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Re: Worlds 2012 in Stuttgart, July 27-29

Postby Robert Thiele » Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:53 pm

Hi, I´m now on holidays and I don´t have possibility to be in Internet regularly.

There are many good ideas wroten above.

1.I agree with steve to move this discussion to own place.

2. After Stuttgart many public "non Slalomers" are interested on our sport and visit this forum . So please stay cultivated.

3. At this time in Stuttgart count O.Dieterle all things which have to do with our money. after we now if we have deficit or not we can pay some "prizemoney". the 150 EUR for the skater with longest travelling are sure ! plese let me know who is it ? Louis, Joe Mc ,Richi ... ? I have big respect for money of other people so surely nothing from the worlds goes to my pocket.

4. I also have some recommendation/ Ideas for futures "major" races. I will write this points after my holidays. Most important in my eyes is to let Juniors and Childern be part of the worlds !

5. in February I thougt to me - If we are in Stuttgart able make the worlds is everything OK. If not, Is only one Person "the Stupid " (=me)
For me is really no Problem to have this function :-) , I´m waiting for it since february ...

I wish ME and you nice holidays :-)
Robert Thiele
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Rob Ashby » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:08 pm

Just a few comments from me as both organiser and racer....

Racer Entries – At this year’s Worlds the field of racers was almost unprecedented. Should we perhaps consider limiting entries to future Worlds by ISSA ranking? Maybe limiting the entries to the top 3 - 5 riders from each country, OK we would probably have to consider a higher limit on riders from the US where there are many prominent racers?
Being a host country should not be automatic qualification for locals to be able enter the Worlds?

Race Schedule/Timetable – this should clearly define how each days racing will be structured.
Where possible use approximate times, state:
• When registration open/closes?
• How many Practice runs will each person have (I suggest that two be adopted as the norm, serious racers will have practiced prior to arriving at the race – no?)
• What will happen in the event riding is suspended / interrupted by bad weather? I.e. state that no Junior races will take place until all Senior races have been completed?
• Manage expectations – don’t try and do too much with too few resources at your disposal, KEEP IT SIMPLE, it does work! This has been the way Sam and I have been doing things in the UK – admittedly we have learned a lot of lessons along the way!
• Priority must always be given to the Pro/Am riders that have paid money and travelled to race. Most juniors under 16 are admitted free. Yes they are the future of the sport but if media representatives are present at races we must show the best first then make an announcement, something along the lines of “You have seen racing at its best and so here is a chance to see the next generation….” Race juniors and kids at the end of the day when there is time or in the lunch break or whatever, but never before all Senior divisions have been completed. Where possible always try and run ‘B Groups especially at smaller races too – people get really stoked at our Hog Hill races because we always do our best to make sure everyone races as much as possible, ask anyone that has been to one!
• But whatever the event Pro/Am Head to head racing must always take precedent over Junior /Kids races. On the last day of an event keep the schedule short – riders will have flights to catch or long journeys home, put yourself in their shoes!
• ABOVE ALL KEEP RACERS INFORMED WHAT IS GOING ON IF THE SCHEDULE CHANGES!

Courses – should fit the status of the race and not be too easy, a lot of people I spoke to at the Worlds thought that the courses were too open – they were done that way so as to cater for all divisions competing. But just look at how close times were, just 0.96 separating the top 16 in the Tight! If you can’t make the course then maybe you shouldn’t be at the race?

Timing system – again keep it simple! In the UK we have tried just about everything. Wireless systems – prone to interference from kids using radio controlled cars & planes in the park.
Laser beams – no good on hot sunny days, even a shadow or wasps/flies can activate the beam!
But Tape Strips work! If there is a problem a tape switch can be replaced in a couple of minutes. Ensure a manual back up of times is available too – this is essential in case of protests or discrepancies. At Hog Hill races we use a white board which in addition to a second screen gives riders an “at-a-glance” method of checking their times and cone penalties.

Prizes/Prize Money – state from the outset what will be given as prizes. For Main and Major Races a proportion of the entry fees should always be allocated as prize purse for Pro’s. Am’s can get product and other schwag. Consider giving raffle tickets to all riders and raffling surplus product at the end of the day…. a fun way of keeping riders occupied and also ensures they stick around for the prize giving as well as being able to muck in with helping to pack stuff up after racing has finished if clearing the location by a given time is an issue.

Accounts/Accountability – for Main and Major Races it should be compulsory for organisers to submit a breakdown of expenditure to the ISSA showing where monies have been spent. Due to my being in front of an x-ray machine at the time I missed the prize giving at the Worlds but understand no Pro’s received money? Surely for a Major status race this is not right?

It is not uncommon that organisers pay out expenses and/or prize money from their own pockets in cases where not as many riders turn up to race as had signed up. We have experienced this in the past. Often these people are the “weather watchers” who despite having signed up to race make the call to travel on the day of the race depending on the weather. Only when they turn up do they pay their entry fee, I don’t think this only applies to the UK either! This sort of thing does not help organisers when working out approximate racer numbers, timings and budget. Organisers still have to pay for track hire/road closures, insurance etc. regardless of rain or shine on the day. These costs should not have to be borne by the organiser in the hope that enough people come to race and they are able to recoup their expenses from entries.
In the UK we are looking to use incentives to make people pay at the time they sign up. For example “pay your entry by ………and you are entered into a draw for a deck” (or wheels or even a reduction on entry fee?) We now add a PayPal button on our sign ups to make it even easier for riders to pay. If riders have pre paid and registered they just sign the waiver on arrival and are on the track quicker – making the whole registration process slick and simpler.

Well those are just a few points from me – I’m not saying I have all the answers but I’m just putting a few ideas out there for discussion. I know a lot of these points have been raised by other racers above but at least it shows that as racers we all share the same goals – let’s try and do something about it!
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Rob Ashby » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:17 pm

Oh and it goes without saying that results should be published promptly for ALL races not just Major and Main Events. We have a UKSSA Twitter feed where UK results are put up straight after the days racing.
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Richy Carrasco » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:46 am

Well done Mr. Ashby -- I'm posting here in support of the ideas you have compiled and posted above.
Some of the most important ones for me are properly prioritizing the racing classes and events AND ensuring proper results and prize purse are a top concern of the organizer.
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ISSA Race Organization

Postby Steve Pederson » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:00 am

Many excellent ideas are being discussed.

I think it would be a huge help if the ISSA Board of Directors changed the requirements for MAIN and MAJOR races to include some of the suggestions.

Status Marshals can talk with organizers before a race and hope an organizer will agree, but if some of these things are requirements, then everyone will know what to expect at races.

Here is just one of the issues that should be a new requirement:

Pros should race first at MAIN and MAJOR status level races. This means all the way through the bracket finals.

Pro racers typically travel to more races and travel further distances than amateurs, beginners and children. Pros tend to spend the most money, train the most and are the most serious about racing. Pros should be rewarded and encouraged to continue traveling to races by letting them race first while they are fresh and before the weather changes.

Some people have said Pros don't necessarily need to race first but that they should race at prime time. But when is the best prime time? Whenever I have seen reporters or photographers at races, it is always early in the morning - usually during the qualifying runs. At large races, by the time qualifying runs are completed, it's past noon. Waiting around for some other set prime time leaves the possibility for weather to change by the time the Pros race.

After the Pros have completed their bracket finals, all other divisions can race.

Then, very last, an easier course can be set for the kids and they can have their qualifying runs & bracket finals. That way many kids can enter and take as much time as is needed.

I've heard that the kids division used to race super early and they'd be off the hill by 9 am. I've never seen that happen.

At MAIN status level races that don't have a Pro division - the top A class group should race first - all the way through the final bracket. After that, the other divisions can race and take as much time as they need.

ISSA Board of Directors, can you make this a requirement? Can this be be accomplished in time to apply to the races in 2013?

Thank you.
Steve Pederson
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Hans Koraeus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:53 pm

There are many good ideas about how to run an event. Most already discussed. But in the end it is the organizer who decides much of how to set it up. Sure we could set up even harder guidelines in more detail. That is always a help. But how can they be forced? Already now you can go away from a lot of "must have regulation" by just stating that in the application. It's up to the status marshals to then let it pass or not. And once the event is done and does not live up to what is promised it's often too late to do anything.

In the end we can just trust the organizer to do his best and have guide lines to help out as much as possible with details such as a good race day plan, recommended classes, recommended number of racers, recommended number of staff, options for rainy day, aso.

One could imagine having an ISSA representative on all Main/Major events that actually have power/responsibility to make decisions at the event. And maybe even during the build up and set up of the event as well. But that must be clear for the organizer also to be willing to let this be so. Maybe organizer don't like not having 100% control over their event but it could actually also take away some pressure and be a welcome help to sort all kind of things out that always happen on an event.

Registration
I also like the idea that Rob mentioned that you should pay something to register. Sure you can register for an event at slalomranking.com for example easily without much thought behind it. But after a certain time maybe registered riders are only those who have paid half the entry fee for example (paypal is easy to use). Those who still have not paid are only on a wait list or something.

Racer limitation
The ranking has a limitation list that ranks racers from passed results. The idea with this list is to have a clear list to work from when it comes to make a cut for very popular events. Having too many racers at an event will in the end draw down the quality of the race. And increase the pressure to hold times and so on. Even in normal cases without rain or timer issues.

Actually this list could maybe be a better ranking also for building start lists even.

So up to a certain registration deadline the top 60 racers on that "racer limitation rank list" are in.
If there are still places open then it can be a "first come/registration" management.
And we could also allow the organizer to have for example 10 wild cards.

This would also avoid having newbies racing at a worlds.

World prize money
Prizemoney for overall winners 1.500,00 EUR, not guaranteed yet (!) maybe more/less

This was stated in the application so that is good. And apparently passed the status marshal to follow up on.

Entry fee
In the application it was stated an entry fee for OPEN of 100 euro.
So no extra fee for Pro's apparently that often is used for the prize money

OPEN split
I like the idea from Steve to split up the field and not having a huge field. Normally this is done with a PRO and AM class when having many racers. But still if insisting to run OPEN with such a big number of racers it would be a good idea to cut them into two groups. A and B according to the "ranking/limitation list".
But if you want to set up courses that better correspond to the racers level the PRO and AM classes seems more logic. Since it is hard to propose that in an OPEN A/B class setup.

Race communication
Meaning how to communicate what is happening at the race and with results towards all of us who could not show up at the race.
We are discussing this right now in the ISSA BOD how to help out with this for event organizers. And that could also be an important task for an ISSA representative at the race.
We must all help out with what we can to ease the burden for the race organizer. So all things are just not to blame organizers for. Some things we all could have helped out with. It's just a question of making a clear setup of responsibility and it would work (I believe).

Worlds 2012 particularity
The Worlds in Stuttgart this year was a little bit special since it was a last minute solution. This must not be forgotten.
Hans Koraeus
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Richy Carrasco » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:07 pm

Robert took on the burden of hosting the Worlds this year after it was up in the air about who is going to organize it, We all know that this is a giant task . I think there should be a deadline for organizers and after that ,the World championship can go anywhere to who is the most motivated to put on this event. Haveing to many racers at a big race is not such a bad thing, The organizers can go down the rankings and set points of 20 for instance of pre qualified racers for each division. Then there would be a pre race qual for those spots to fill in the brackets to 32. After the main races are completed every day the racers who did not make the cut get one run in each lane for final results. If the organizers want to have childrens races ,maybe another timer could be setup at a less steep grade and have there owne hill and courses. We have the Best racing equipement of all time, With some of the best racers, We should be pushing the limits of what is possible to do on a skateboard! The Top racers need challenge !
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Ron Barbagallo » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:09 pm

I think that there might be a school of thought that running the Pros later in the day keeps the crowd. Once the Pros are done, spectators will hang around for a little while and then they’ll leave as the action isn’t as high.

But given the fact that we attract dozens of spectators to events, it really doesn’t matter.

I think races might just be run the “Ams first Pros last” way because that’s the way it’s always been….

I am in favor of running the Pros first, or maybe the Juniors first and then the Pros. Hear me out – a)the kids are cute, spectators enjoy that, b) there aren’t too many – usually less than 10 and they don’t need more than a run or two, and c) you can iron out any timer issues using them as the Guinea pigs before the Pros run .

And then run the Pros. This way the crowd has a very basic idea of what is going on with the kids and then, BAM! Full on slalom onslaught! Then run the Masters because there’s less of them and it’s fun to watch the old farts fall down the hill. Then the Ams. This also is a bit of a bonus for the Ams as they can watch the Pros and learn their lines and techniques, as well as what gear they’re running.

Just my observance from being at a lot of races and chatting with the spectators.

I also like Donald’s idea of a fun MC calling the action. As many will attest, I did a spectacular job at last year’s Worlds in Ottawa. I got many compliments from the racers as well as the fans. I took the time to learn some local culture and include it throughout the day. I also gave them basic information as to what was going on and what they were watching. I also interviewed a few racers as they were getting ready, especially ones from foreign countries. It gives the race an air of being legitimate as these people flew over from Europe on their own dime to be there – that’s a big deal and should be pointed out. Plus Pelle Plast is a real crowd pleaser!
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Hans Koraeus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:35 pm

There is not much new info here that we did not have or knew before.
Still mistakes are done.
And it's hard to enforce a rule of how to lay out the race program for the day because there are so many things that can play in.

The only thing needed is a common understanding to prioritize...
1. Getting results for all racers (Prio PRO)
2. Running Finals (Prio PRO)

The problem in Stuttgart was that it was an OPEN class and by that not so easy to do so.

I'm not convinced that running PRO in the morning is the best. That would only be the best if weather is sketchy and risk of rain during the day.

Here we had some more ideas about this: http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=74958#p74958


/Corky
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Richy Carrasco » Mon Aug 13, 2012 4:55 pm

I have been to many races and have seen many spectators and TV crews leave being over it before the Pro div have not gotten out there. The higher div racers usaully run alot cleaner and the racing moves along faster.
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Hans Koraeus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:23 pm

I think a mistake that might be done from organizers is saying "the event starts at 09:00 in the morning". And then spectators and media will be there early and will be tired of the whole thing before the exciting finals even start.

Tell spectators and media the event starts at 14:00 or 15:00. By then all qualifications (plus maybe some more things) are done and PRO finals (and other top finals) can start. With fresh spectators and media crew. Then finish of in the evening with more B and C group racing after prime time if wanted.

Exactly as mentioned here: viewtopic.php?p=74958#p74958

With a 2 hour schedule starting at 15:00 or 16:00 with all the top racer finals in each class and price ceremony. That 2 hour window is what we want to show and push with great speaker and intense action. The rest of the day is our internal racing with lower prio. Sometimes even the speaker is all worn out and tired once the finals begin... :-|
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Steve Pederson » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:45 am

Hans Koraeus wrote:I'm not convinced that running PRO in the morning is the best. That would only be the best if weather is sketchy and risk of rain during the day.


Are there any reasons why racing Pros first would be a bad thing?
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Donald Campbell » Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:33 am

hey guys
i want to come back to a format i once did
when we had pros and ams
brixlegg
i split up the day in 2 sections
richy you remember that?
we had ams in the morning and pros starting at 2 pm
so..when you go to that idea the organizer has to inform the local press f.e. that serious racing starts at 2pm
on the other hand its a fact that any reporter just has to do a job that day-they want it short and sweet and yes they are not very motivated in most cases,since it is just another job
they are doing.you should always keep that in mind when you bring up the argument of reporters and inviting them to your contest.
pe-communication is the key-word here-you have to inform the press about the schedule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

also,something else to consider.
i will host a bowl contest at my place next month and today is another pre-meeting of sponsors(vans,monster,independent,titus)at my place.
we are talking about money here and about satisfaction of the sponsors involved.
so i am the guy who has to make the sponsors happy
this contest will not be run just by my own will
there are certain requirements to be fulfilled prior and during the contest.
i did this format successfully during the last 4 years and guess what? the sponsor money is increasing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the level is as high as the amount i had in brixlegg=20k
this is regarded as a medium level contest format in our scene

so when it comes down to sponsors-THEY SHOULD BE HEARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when texas goes off i hope for the sake of the sport that sponsors will have a final saying about what should be done
because then it will be professional
i will definitely support texas-financially-i guess richy will do the same and a few others too.

i will also try to bend and shape this contest into what it has to be-same goes to richy of course.

why am i mentioning me and richy?

very simple

and i guess i have the right to say that

we are both not really happy with quite a few things

i guess we have the right to feel so

please do not forget that sk8kings and pavel have been major players in this game for a long time
we both support our scenes,be it with product,technologies,races,feuds,whatever
we have been there doing our thing for years and years


can you imagine the scene without us?

just give it a thought...

so i come back to what i want to point out:

SPONSORS are the key factor to any race and they should be satisfied with the outcome of the project they sponsored
if they are not-you will never see them again.

imagine joemac will not come anymore
i just brought dom back as a major player
but he says(and i know he is right about that) that dh contests are more fun and that some races are really shitty!!!!!
you should consider that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

we need to keep the top racers motivated to go to races-we need to be able to market victories looking back at a gigantic,epic race called the worlds,euros f.e

right now we can't really do that.and its not just the worlds that showed mistakes.....

getting a bit off-topic i guess you should all know that i am very unhappy with the current state.

i am a producer and sponsor
i am trying to make a living of what i produce

my voice should be heard and not only mine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Donald Campbell
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Ron Barbagallo » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:52 pm

I too have sponsored many races in the past - WAYYYY too many races for such a small company!!!!

But I believe in the sport as do Richy and Donald

I have never been asked my opinion or input on ANY race that I have helped sponsor, so I am intrigued by Donald's statements about his bowl contest. He just may have something there. And mind you, I have never met Donald so there is no bias.

Richy is someone I would call a friend, Maria too. I think their input is invaluable for ANY slalom competition. There is no one in the US who goes to more races than those two, so they know a thing or two about what works and what doesn't. Not to mention they pour more money into this sport than ANY other company. I'd venture a guess that Fullbag is probably up there too, and Mig knows much about running a race - his Krispey Hill series is one of the most laid back and well run races I've ever been to. They do such a good job - no complaints from racers OR neighbors. I haven't been to any of Richy's races, but I'm guessing it's the same with those as well.

What I'm getting at is, Donald has a new and good idea. Input from sponsors. They do it to advertise their products and hopefully make some money off of the event. If you want the sport to get bigger and attract bigger sponsors, then making them happy and showing them a return on their investment is key.

Of course, the racers should be happy too!
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Donald Campbell » Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:29 pm

fatboy
i put my name and richys name as an example
no bad bloood here intended
in slalom all the organizers do in general is ask for schwag,similar to street or pool contests
when money comes into the game the sponsor approach is much different from that.
they want to know how the contest is run,how the awards will be presented,how their logos will be placed,how the event will
be marketed in mags f.e just a few things to consider-nothing i see happen here in slalom!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Donald Campbell on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Jonas Wikstrom » Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:24 pm

I think there should be 3 classes PRO,Master/Open, Women/Juniors. Restrict the number of racers say like top 30 ranking.
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Ron Barbagallo » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:41 pm

Donald Campbell wrote:fatboy
i put my name and richys name as an example
no bad bloood here intended
in slalom all the organizers do in general is ask for schwag,similar to street or pool contests
when money comes into the game the sponsor approach is much different from that.
they want to know how the contest is run,how the awards will be presented,how their logos will be placed,how the event will
be marketed in mags f.e just a few things to consider-nothing i see happen here in slalom!!!!!!!!!


I totally get what you're saying! No offense taken.

BUT, the swag sponsors could also be of some help. Most if not all of us attend races and can see what works and doesn't. And I'm pretty sure Pavel or Sk8kings wouldn't mind seeing their banners in the background of a TV shot with Dom or McLaren speeding past, rather than slower Ams or Juniors. That kind of footage makes slalom look exciting - not like ice skating compulsories :)
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Sj Kalliokoski » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:34 pm

On top level races, i mean on World Cup level, do we need practice runs? Just give 10-20 minutes for all riders to walk and investigate track and the start race. On those races there should be only riders who dont need any more practice. Same way as on on alpine races.

Related World Champs, fundamental question is that do we want it to be great get-together for all participants who can (afford to) join, or should it be limited only top racers for each category.
-pokkis
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Claude Regnier » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:44 pm

Okay so it has been a while since anything has been said here! Now that there has been some prize money found for the Stuttgart winners we would like to know what went on with the board of directors and their decision to award the event without the guaranty of prize money? Also why were you not kept informed, especially when the number of racers grew to such a high number? At some point prize money should have been guaranteed! More then the minimum as well, certainly not less!

Did the entire board know of the situation and circumstances? or was it just one or some?

Why were the racers not informed?

Why did you figure it was best not to say anything?

Were you surprised at the end with the numbers of attendees and still no prize money?

Are you satisfied now?

Election time is coming and many of us would like to know!
Many Happy Pumps!
Claude Regnier
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Guillaume Saint-Criq » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:12 am

Claude,
if i agree that no prize money do not meet major status requirement (so the event should not have been granted with this status), it's false to say racers were not informed : status application for Stuttgart clearly say prize money was "not guaranteed" (see http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/slalo ... 12/574.pdf)
Racers must also read sanction application before an event, and if something is not clear, must ask the organizer and/or BOD BEFORE the event.
All BOD are volunteers, and my point is that they are making things move since 2012 (lots of events, website evolve, sanctionning process evolve). Blaming them with election time is certainly not a good way to have more volunteers this year.
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Re: Ideas, after Stuttgart, for future races

Postby Claude Regnier » Thu Sep 27, 2012 5:00 am

If the prize money was not guaranteed it should not have been granted! Clearly with over 100 racers everyone expected a decent amount of prize money! We ended up having to fight for a very small prize purse. Someone has to accept the blame! It was a step backwards for the sport. Slalom is growing and that is very nice to see. We need to keep it growing! If someone can not put on a proper Worlds comp then it should not be forced upon them when you have alternate options. It is too bad the way it turned out. There is no excuse for it!

Sorry if I am upsetting some people but facts are facts!
Many Happy Pumps!
Claude Regnier
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