2009 Rules Update - Overall - tie breaker

general rules, special-tight-giant rules

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Jani Soderhall
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2009 Rules Update - Overall - tie breaker

Post by Jani Soderhall » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:14 pm

It would be good to add that if a discipline has not been selected as a tie breaker, it is the last run event that is the tie breaker.

/Jani

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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:56 pm

I would suggest that the tie breaker is the the qualifying times added together.

Example:

Racer A


TS 12.491
GS 34.928

Total Time:
47.419


Racer B

TS 12.342
GS 35.270

Total Time:
47.612


Racer A wins because of the better total time.


OR


The Qualifying position determines. If then it's still a tie, it's the average of the two qualifying times.


To make an example:

If there is a TS and a GS race and we have Chris Hart and Janis Kuzmins with a tie.
Isn't it unfair to let Chris/Janis win just because the GS/TS was the last event?

rmn
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Post by Jani Soderhall » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:23 am

I'm not sure that Qual times should be worth that much. After all the real race is in the head-to-head racing part of it. Thus once that part is done, the qual isn't worth much. Someone could have shifted places considerably in the finals, so counting his qual time isn't going to be really fair.

But maybe there's some other method. I just want to make sure we have a written rule on this topic.

/Jani

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Post by Janis kuzmins » Tue Sep 16, 2008 2:10 pm

Jani wrote:It would be good to add that if a discipline has not been selected as a tie breaker, it is the last run event that is the tie breaker.
This will using in situation if the riders have the same places like:

1.rider 1;1;4,
2.rider 3:2:1,(of course here the winner is no 1, because he had more higher places),

1.rider 1;3;2,
2.rider 2;3;1,(but in this situation nr 2.)

I agree with Jani. This will be easy using method and understandable for everybody.


Qualification times does not show real situation, this is not important part of the event, if there after have head to head. This sounds bad method.

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Post by Pat Chewning » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:22 pm

An event with several races may give awards for the overall winner. The method of calculating the
overall winner shall be:
· Racers may enter as many events as desired.
· One event is declared the “tie breaker” before the competition begins.
· Racers receive points in each race according to the chart. (Below)
· Racers are sorted from highest to lowest sum of total points over all events.
· Ties are broken by comparing racer placing in the “tie breaking” event.
Why doesn't this work? Why do we need to fix it?

Vincent Berruchon
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Post by Vincent Berruchon » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:04 am

So according to the actual rules: organizers should decide and announce which discipline is the tie breaker?
The contest sanction application document should also precise this when an overall results is to be calculated, don't you think?

I totally forgot about this rule. That clear and easy too if announcement is clearly made before the event.
I also think it's totally subjective to decide which discipline is the tie breaker (giant for the giant lovers ... technical tight for tight lovers...) but at least it's simple and OK if decided and communicated before!
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Post by Pat Chewning » Wed Sep 17, 2008 1:29 am

That is a good idea to place this on the sanction application -- to remind the contest directors of this.

I would suggest that the "tie breaker" be the Hybrid event (somewhere between GS and tight).

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:39 am

Pat Chewning wrote:I would suggest that the "tie breaker" be the Hybrid event (somewhere between GS and tight).
Ok that might be the way to solve it.

I just wanted a rule, that helps in case nothing has been announced, so it's not a new rule, it's just an extra phrase in that sentence.

In the end we'll let people vote I guess.

/Jani

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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:05 pm

I agree on the Hybrid being the tie-breaker. But what if you have Straight + Special/TS + GS?

or only TS and GS?

rmn
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Post by Pat Chewning » Wed Sep 17, 2008 7:52 pm

Ramón Königshausen wrote:I agree on the Hybrid being the tie-breaker. But what if you have Straight + Special/TS + GS?

or only TS and GS?

rmn
If you only have TS and GS (two events) then this is a smaller race and the idea of declaring an overall winner might not even make sense.

There is no requirement to have an overall winner. I would think it only makes sense for the larger contests with at least 3 events.

If you have Straight, TS, GS then choose one. You can choose based on timing (last event of the weekend) or logically (choose TS because it is probaly not as tight as the straight and not as loose as the GS).

I'd like to leave it up to the event organizer to choose the event for tie-breaker.

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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:51 pm

Pat Chewning wrote:
Ramón Königshausen wrote:I agree on the Hybrid being the tie-breaker. But what if you have Straight + Special/TS + GS?

or only TS and GS?

rmn
If you only have TS and GS (two events) then this is a smaller race and the idea of declaring an overall winner might not even make sense.

There is no requirement to have an overall winner. I would think it only makes sense for the larger contests with at least 3 events.
Grenoble was a Main event and was announced to have 3 discuplines but due to rain, only two could be done, so that's why we're having this discussion.

rmn
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