[Announcement] Editorial and ownership transfer 2004
Moderator: Jani Soderhall
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
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[Announcement] Editorial and ownership transfer 2004
It is with great pleasure that I am able to make this announcement.
The time is right for me and for you, the community, to see a continuance of this skateboard slalom specific web site, while at the same time, realizing a new editor, Jack Smith. No doubt I thought long and hard about my choices and It is with my great pleasure to announce that Jack will be taking over the editorial and ownership of slalomskateboarder.com
Please help me welcome our new editor.
adam trahan
The time is right for me and for you, the community, to see a continuance of this skateboard slalom specific web site, while at the same time, realizing a new editor, Jack Smith. No doubt I thought long and hard about my choices and It is with my great pleasure to announce that Jack will be taking over the editorial and ownership of slalomskateboarder.com
Please help me welcome our new editor.
adam trahan
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- Red Clay Racing
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- Corky - World Ranking Master Mind
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That all seems good but I thought this was a site owned, supported and driven by the whole international slalom community. And that it was up to the community to select a yearly editor.
As to the owner of "slalomskateboarder.com" I thought the same. I understand that legally someone has to stand as owner of the web address. But why it needed to change and what good that is I don't know. For me that is of no importance since the site and all its documented information are the property of all those who put it there, i.e. the slalom community.
Or is the idea that the yearly editor itself selects who will take over the ship and by that also transfer the ownership of "slalomskateboarder.com" at the same time. I would have hoped that we would have gone another route towards multiple editors and ownership of this site since I don't see it as something owned and run by a single person.
As to the owner of "slalomskateboarder.com" I thought the same. I understand that legally someone has to stand as owner of the web address. But why it needed to change and what good that is I don't know. For me that is of no importance since the site and all its documented information are the property of all those who put it there, i.e. the slalom community.
Or is the idea that the yearly editor itself selects who will take over the ship and by that also transfer the ownership of "slalomskateboarder.com" at the same time. I would have hoped that we would have gone another route towards multiple editors and ownership of this site since I don't see it as something owned and run by a single person.
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
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Dan,Dan Mitchell wrote:"I don't see it as something owned and run by a single person."
I may be wrong, but I think Adam (a single person) started
this site, and IMO what he does with it is up to him.
As I said, I may be wrong.......
if so I apologize.
Thanks for your comment(s).
Yes, you are right. 2 or 3 years ago at ncdsa.com everyone who was around then knows that I was pounding on the drum about the ISSA until I could pound no more. So I built this web site (forum) on my own and the first issue of Slalom! [online] on my own prior to the return online by many of the Europeans who now are helping this community. After that I did recieve tons of art work help from Lillis (a European freestyle skateboard champion) under the direction of Jani Soderhall (a European Skateboard Slalom Champion). Jack Smith, John Gilmour, Gareth Roe, Henry Hester, they all pitched in, even Arab, yeah, I did get it started on my own with the help of some greats in the sport. That is how the timeline goes, after that, it's all subjective.
Essentially what Corky has said is true, they are my words to some degree.
The problem is, the "community" is not whole. There is a large segment of the slalom community that is not here to be able to vote. I am partially to blame for this and I will no longer stand in the way of progression. I have made the best decision that I could in my heart after honoring each and every one of you that I could, even some of you who I do not agree with. So yes, Hans is right, and so am I to make a move to make the community whole. There are so many people out there who help the sport grow who are not recognized, many of them are not here and I will no longer be a part of that.
This is as simple and diplomatic as I can make it without running into dirty laundry.
Dan: Jack Smith may be able to stop the bleeding that I could not. I no longer own the site, just this very moment, I have transfered ownership to him, it's a done deal.
Jack: You will do good. You have an enourmous heart as well, I have learned many things from you.
Hans: Don't forget to welcome the new editor/owner of slalomskateboarder.com
Best to you all.
adam trahan
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- azsuprasm
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- Corky - World Ranking Master Mind
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Funny. My post above has disappeared. Between Dan's and Adam's posts. Adam is referring to it so I guess it was there at a point. Hmm.
There was also a "F#!K you all" topic in the "Random Slalom Topics" section from Jadranko that I can't find anymore.
(Ed note: the strange post by Jadranko was made by Russian hackers, so it was removed. /Jani)
What is happening?
There was also a "F#!K you all" topic in the "Random Slalom Topics" section from Jadranko that I can't find anymore.
(Ed note: the strange post by Jadranko was made by Russian hackers, so it was removed. /Jani)
What is happening?
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- Morro Bay Skate legend
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Missing Posts
Although the domain transfer has taken place, I have not changed anything on the site.
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- Phoenix G.R.S. Tom
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Thank you
In 2002 I was "surfin' the web, for anything to do with skateboarding. I stumbled upon this site and a old flame in my heart grew back into the huge blaze that it is today. If this site were not here, I would still be "lost".
For that life changing moment ,I say THANK YOU to ADAM and those who assisted in putting this site here.
Jack, as always you have my full support and if there is ever anything I can do to assist you don't hesitate to ask.
Skate safe, Skate hard!
Tom Blankley
For that life changing moment ,I say THANK YOU to ADAM and those who assisted in putting this site here.
Jack, as always you have my full support and if there is ever anything I can do to assist you don't hesitate to ask.
Skate safe, Skate hard!
Tom Blankley
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Hans Koraeus wrote:Funny. My post above has disappeared. Between Dan's and Adam's posts. Adam is referring to it so I guess it was there at a point. Hmm.
There was also a "F#!K you all" topic in the "Random Slalom Topics" section from Jadranko that I can't find anymore.
What is happening?
To Corky,Jack Smith wrote:Although the domain transfer has taken place, I have not changed anything on the site.
Using my administrator rights of this site, I moved Jadranko's post "F#!K you all" to the thrash can. I don't think this was an intentional post made by Jadranko and even if it was it wasn't about slalom skateboarding.
I didn't do anything to your 2:nd post in this topic. I didn't even see it. Maybe it never really got in?
To Jack,
Welcome as owner and new editor of this site!
I've been waiting to comment upon the change in ownership as I've been waiting for you to make a statement as to the future directions of this site. I'm curious, why did you take over and what do you want to do with this site?
To Adam Trahan,
Thank's for getting the site going and steering it for two years! Together we've taken it a long way. If the side effect of you stepping aside would be that this site will attract some of those that have cursed it that'll be great. But for that to happen maybe I have to leave too?
To the community,
I'm a bit concerned about investing time and hosting my pictures, scans etc and other skaters pictures, scans, videos on a community site that may once change ownership? Since the first day I started visiting and working on this site I've done so because I believed that the intentions of Adam T were good. He set up some guidelines and they've been followed for 2 years. With a change of ownership we can only hope this will be true for another period, hopefully a long period.
However, I'd rather see the site moving towards a real community driven site. Jack is the owner - forever, let's say - but the community decides where the site goes. We could elect 5 representatives or so to steer the site on a yearly basis (partly Adam's idea a year back). Jack is now the obvious leader of that group, at least for this first period. Well, maybe I should not venture too far into this topic without knowing Jack's intentions.
/Jani
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- Germany
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As moderator of Random Slalom Topics and a slalom skater I´d like to give my mustard to this too (we say that in german, believe me...)
What I really liked about SS.com was, that it was not in the hands of some industry people, but in the hands of someone who just did it for the love of skateboarding.
Now that this has changed (as we all know, Jack is Bahne) and knowing Jack a little (I felt his love for skateboarding too) I don´t believe this will affect the site at all.
Sure Jack has a few other interests besides simply skating, but I am sure he makes a good owner of SS.com
I am excited what Jack will say...........
What I really liked about SS.com was, that it was not in the hands of some industry people, but in the hands of someone who just did it for the love of skateboarding.
Now that this has changed (as we all know, Jack is Bahne) and knowing Jack a little (I felt his love for skateboarding too) I don´t believe this will affect the site at all.
Sure Jack has a few other interests besides simply skating, but I am sure he makes a good owner of SS.com
I am excited what Jack will say...........
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- Morro Bay Skate legend
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More to come
Hello All,
Thanks to Adam for all his hardwork and leadership.
My son, Dylan, is visiting Maurine and I through Sunday. We are throughly enjoying his visit. Yesterday we went water skiing with Paul and Michele Dunn.
I'll post more about my plans next week. In the words of Howard Gordon,
"carry on".
Thanks to Adam for all his hardwork and leadership.
My son, Dylan, is visiting Maurine and I through Sunday. We are throughly enjoying his visit. Yesterday we went water skiing with Paul and Michele Dunn.
I'll post more about my plans next week. In the words of Howard Gordon,
"carry on".
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- Corky - World Ranking Master Mind
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Ok Dan, here we go again. Just to respond to your questions.
I nominate!! [adam trahan]
Election Announcement
I had the feeling we (users) should vote a main editor of slalomskateboarder each year. I say main editor since there are many editors for the different forum sections as well. I would probably have voted for Jack as editor anyway but it's more the way it has been done behind the backs of everyone. Maybe this is the time to discuss how we want this site and forum to be handled in the future. It's a community site (I thought), not a personal one.
I would also like to separate the owner of the web address from the editorial control. The owner of slalomskateboarder.com I don't care about. If it's Adam or Jack shouldn't matter. But the content and work we all make to this "international slalom forum" should not be owned by one person. It belongs to us all. And thereby a concern to all of us how it is handled.
Hans Koraeus wrote:"up to the community to select a yearly editor ."
Election AnnouncementDan Mitchell wrote:Hans, where did you read this? Just curious.
I nominate!! [adam trahan]
Election Announcement
I had the feeling we (users) should vote a main editor of slalomskateboarder each year. I say main editor since there are many editors for the different forum sections as well. I would probably have voted for Jack as editor anyway but it's more the way it has been done behind the backs of everyone. Maybe this is the time to discuss how we want this site and forum to be handled in the future. It's a community site (I thought), not a personal one.
Yes, Adam Trahan started this site and I salute him. It was a good thing. But many after him have worked against the same goals he put up and for what this site stands for.Dan Mitchell wrote:I may be wrong, but I think Adam (a single person) started this site, and IMO what he does with it is up to him.
I fully agree with Adam. He was on the right track.Adam Trahan wrote:August of 2003 will mark the one-year anniversary of http://www.slalomskateboarder.com We have come a long way to establish a web site that promotes international participation in the sport of slalom skateboarding. This site is a volunteer project, non-commercial in nature and reflects the views of it's participants. It is born of slalom skateboard racers and the International Skateboard Slalom Association and has administration found around the globe.
I would also like to separate the owner of the web address from the editorial control. The owner of slalomskateboarder.com I don't care about. If it's Adam or Jack shouldn't matter. But the content and work we all make to this "international slalom forum" should not be owned by one person. It belongs to us all. And thereby a concern to all of us how it is handled.
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Hans,
You use words here like "was a good thing" and preface the change in not such a good light. Those are your words, you own them, here are some of mine.
You still have not welcomed Jack as the new editor/owner.
You say alot but you say absolutely not ... same time.
At one point, I wanted to give the site to you and you would have taken it if I had not responded to your pep talk. This negates everything you have said above.
Jack will do more for slalom than you can imagine, he has history, he will not forget.
You forget many things, Hans.
You use words here like "was a good thing" and preface the change in not such a good light. Those are your words, you own them, here are some of mine.
You still have not welcomed Jack as the new editor/owner.
You say alot but you say absolutely not ... same time.
At one point, I wanted to give the site to you and you would have taken it if I had not responded to your pep talk. This negates everything you have said above.
Jack will do more for slalom than you can imagine, he has history, he will not forget.
You forget many things, Hans.
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- Etienne
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funny how a benign anouncement can actually reveal a civilisation gap.
For us Europeans, community responsabilities and industry interest should be as well separated as possible, or the links should be at least continuously scrutated.
Riderz.net was too created by a single initiative, then the work load was shared between the moderators. Now the creator has gone and it is a very active association that goes far beyond the moderators of the site and has other activities, like organising the Paris Slalom World Cup...
Seems a rather natural evolution, i guess, fonctional, fluid and of general interest...
Jack is certainly the best person in the world (as i do not know him much at all, i have a clear position -nothing personal-) nevertheless he might have personal conflicts and interests, and if the work load is too heavy for Adam the problem is just transfered to Jack, not solved.
So i make the wish that Jack will set-up an association structure for this site life, so that, when he very normally gets tired of it, as we all get tired of associative loads and responsabilities after a while, which is extremely normal and healthy, he goes to his associates for a solution.
However, "- Bon courage, Jack", all the best to you, pal !
For us Europeans, community responsabilities and industry interest should be as well separated as possible, or the links should be at least continuously scrutated.
Riderz.net was too created by a single initiative, then the work load was shared between the moderators. Now the creator has gone and it is a very active association that goes far beyond the moderators of the site and has other activities, like organising the Paris Slalom World Cup...
Seems a rather natural evolution, i guess, fonctional, fluid and of general interest...
Jack is certainly the best person in the world (as i do not know him much at all, i have a clear position -nothing personal-) nevertheless he might have personal conflicts and interests, and if the work load is too heavy for Adam the problem is just transfered to Jack, not solved.
So i make the wish that Jack will set-up an association structure for this site life, so that, when he very normally gets tired of it, as we all get tired of associative loads and responsabilities after a while, which is extremely normal and healthy, he goes to his associates for a solution.
However, "- Bon courage, Jack", all the best to you, pal !
Last edited by Etienne de Bary on Sun Aug 08, 2004 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- Corky - World Ranking Master Mind
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Very good. You see, I do say something.Adam Trahan wrote:You use words here like "was a good thing" and preface the change in not such a good light.
Why are you so eager to make me welcome Jack as new editor/owner? Or is this something you demand of everyone?Adam Trahan wrote:You still have not welcomed Jack as the new editor/owner.
I see this as two different things, editor(s) and owner. That's why I'm a little bit confused. And that's why I'm trying to figure out what to make of all this. But, you are "half right". Let me get the ownership out of the way.
Jack, congratulations to the new ownership of "SlalomSkateboarder.com". In the light of Adam no longer wanting this ownership you where absolutley among the best choices there was. I truly believe that this will work out very well and have confidence that you took it over for the good reasons.
Now to the editor part. With this change maybe it is a good time to discuss how we want this site to be handled and lead. So far there has only been a vage understanding of this. In my view we have had multiple "Main editors" of this site. I now understand that this vague view of mine was nothing but a vague view. Maybe it would be good to put this down in words so we all know what we are dealing with. Who are the main editors of this site? How are they selected? What are their responsabilities? What are the goal we all are aiming for with this site?
I'm interested in Jack's opinion on this as much as everybody elses.
Once again. I have nothing against Jack being one of the Main editors. I'm against the site owner (or previous site owners) deciding who is editor or not. Unless we decide that the legal owner of "slalomskateboarder.com" always is an editor. But then the community should have a word into who the site is transfered to. This is more tricky since legally it is free to the owner to do what he likes with his web-address.
Wrong Adam! If you would have given the site to me I would not have taken it because it's not for me to take. I have always thought it was up to the slalom community to decide such matters.Adam Trahan wrote:At one point, I wanted to give the site to you and you would have taken it if I had not responded to your pep talk. This negates everything you have said above.
What do you know about what I can imagine Jack doing for slalom? I think most of us can imagine quite a bit. He has history as you mentioned yourself. (Like this was only the case for a selected few.)Jack will do more for slalom than you can imagine, he has history, he will not forget.
You forget many things, Hans.
And sorry, I don't see where you want to go with this forget thing. If I have forgot something then please enlighten me. Maybe it's not so much forgetting than a different view of historical events.
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- Radikal Trucks
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ownership transfer
I would like to welcome Jack Smith as owner/editor in chief of this site. I want to appologize for not being more active on this site. I was embarrased to find 6 & 8 month old messages in my box.
I hope to get more familier with the ENTIRE slalom community now.
Adam, you have done a wonderfull job in keeping this site open to all who have contributed to it's success. I can only hope this trend continues.
I hope to get more familier with the ENTIRE slalom community now.
Adam, you have done a wonderfull job in keeping this site open to all who have contributed to it's success. I can only hope this trend continues.
MCCREEARCHRADIKAL
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
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Thanks Dan, Rick, Jani, Mark, Tom, Steve, Jack et al.
When it cools down here (in Arizona) I plan to start skateboarding (slalom and pool/bowl) more. It's really draining in August, the monsoon is in full swing, it's like 100 plus degrees every single day...
I am getting married in November, currently moving in with my fiance', the boys are starting back to school, I'm starting to hang glide again, kite surfing has really got my attention and well, I just couldn't hang as the editor, I got down the road so far that when I looked back, I saw that I had lost my way. A telephone call to Jack brought me back to center.
Personally, I hope to see advertisements here. I would like to see more of a "magazine" mode, the site is great now but I think it needs an infusion and a take-off in a new direction. I forgot his name, it was one of the British guys, in a e-mail or a post he said, "...this site makes me put my cardigan on before I visit." and I understood that then and now. It's a good place here, so much good information, a great group of guys, the DC crew, man, what a scene they have going, way cool. I want to read Olson's poems here, I would like to read Nature Boy mixing it up with some of the Euro's, Ed Economy, even Arab, that turd has a big heart for slalom, big as anyones too. And Slappy? his photo manipulating is the best. Damn, I want to see the whole community here, you don't have to love each other, just respect each other and love slalom...
I hope that my leaving and Jack at the helm will open doors that my invitation failed to produce. Skateboard slalom is not ski racing, it's skateboarding and as I said, I got so far down the road, I got lost, I forgot where I came from and ultimately, that found it's way here as well.
You guys are the best and well, now Phoenix has a group of slalom people that I now have to practice if I am going to beat them. I can't just show up after not skating for a while and keep up or beat the crew, they've been practicing, that's cool. It's been twenty plus years since there was a good crew to practice slalom with and this time, we have more cones than we have roads. That's a great feeling.
Thank you all (even you too Hans) for your kind words,
adam
When it cools down here (in Arizona) I plan to start skateboarding (slalom and pool/bowl) more. It's really draining in August, the monsoon is in full swing, it's like 100 plus degrees every single day...
I am getting married in November, currently moving in with my fiance', the boys are starting back to school, I'm starting to hang glide again, kite surfing has really got my attention and well, I just couldn't hang as the editor, I got down the road so far that when I looked back, I saw that I had lost my way. A telephone call to Jack brought me back to center.
Personally, I hope to see advertisements here. I would like to see more of a "magazine" mode, the site is great now but I think it needs an infusion and a take-off in a new direction. I forgot his name, it was one of the British guys, in a e-mail or a post he said, "...this site makes me put my cardigan on before I visit." and I understood that then and now. It's a good place here, so much good information, a great group of guys, the DC crew, man, what a scene they have going, way cool. I want to read Olson's poems here, I would like to read Nature Boy mixing it up with some of the Euro's, Ed Economy, even Arab, that turd has a big heart for slalom, big as anyones too. And Slappy? his photo manipulating is the best. Damn, I want to see the whole community here, you don't have to love each other, just respect each other and love slalom...
I hope that my leaving and Jack at the helm will open doors that my invitation failed to produce. Skateboard slalom is not ski racing, it's skateboarding and as I said, I got so far down the road, I got lost, I forgot where I came from and ultimately, that found it's way here as well.
You guys are the best and well, now Phoenix has a group of slalom people that I now have to practice if I am going to beat them. I can't just show up after not skating for a while and keep up or beat the crew, they've been practicing, that's cool. It's been twenty plus years since there was a good crew to practice slalom with and this time, we have more cones than we have roads. That's a great feeling.
Thank you all (even you too Hans) for your kind words,
adam
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- KILL CITY RACING
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Jack...I got back on a board in '02 after 18 years on my feet. Your name was synonymous with boardriding in the 70's and 80's and it still is today. Congrats on the position.
Adam T., This site is springboarding slalom riding into parts of the country and to people who, withour your site, may never have been interested. AND you gave us a forum for the midwest....Sometimes you have to take a step back to appreciate what you've accomplished. Thanks for what you've done.
To anybody who thinks an "election" should have been called, ....why?
If you dont live in the states, let me assure you, elections dont mean as much as you think. If a great guy wants the job, give it to him/(her). Why BS around..
lets all crack a beer...toast to Jack and find a good hill
run clean
Adam T., This site is springboarding slalom riding into parts of the country and to people who, withour your site, may never have been interested. AND you gave us a forum for the midwest....Sometimes you have to take a step back to appreciate what you've accomplished. Thanks for what you've done.
To anybody who thinks an "election" should have been called, ....why?
If you dont live in the states, let me assure you, elections dont mean as much as you think. If a great guy wants the job, give it to him/(her). Why BS around..
lets all crack a beer...toast to Jack and find a good hill
run clean
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- Team Roe Racing
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Congratulations Jack Smith!
" Is history happening all the time?"
- Ali G
I remember talking with Adam T about this site long ago.
A few things about Adam T. It's obvious that he loves slalom. I started talking with Adam T prior to our use of the internet in the Early 1990's. At the time there was no slalom gear to be had other than vintage gear. I had convinced (over several hours of telephone calls) Bob Turner a few months earlier, to pick up a few cans of resin and start to make a batch of Turner Decks for me.
Bob and family were moving to Oregon. As a long time resident of San Diego Oregon's winters were unfamiliar to the Turner family. Bob finished some of the batch of Blackbirds and Classic turner cutaways and fullnoses in while watching his own breath cloud from the cold. The Turners are not winter people. Bob finished these decks- his question to me… "John, can you sell them? "
I said "I think so, there are a few people interested, and most importantly because of Slalom! Magazine- there might be a way to get in touch with other slalomers. Adam Trahan is one guy I've been talking to and he is really excited to get a board. He is a slalomer way out in Arizona." (The term "Slalom Hermit" hadn't even been coined yet). "There are a few slalomers on the East Coast as well- Tom Armstrong (New Yorker Recently relocated to Gaithersburg) Jon Shea (Boston), Taji Saotome (Boston), Pierre, Jeannie Clarke Hannen (of South Kent Connecticut- they seem to be really stoked about the arrival of the new decks. We will have to see how many of them are willing to compete. (Tom Armstrong was one of the fastest slalomers I ever saw…never competed though intended to, Only Jeannie, who was ironically the slowest of the crew, went with me to compete at the Trocadero in 1995.)
Adam T. bought a Blackbird from me, a few hyper stradas, and a set of seismics. It was a magical combination. It made you YEARN to ride. (Those sidewalless Blackbirds had a ride that hasn't yet been duplicated for cruising). Adam was eager to see slalom move forward again. He tracked slalom's progress through the 1990's watching with hope as many of the Europeans and I did that the Olympic Committees would take notice of slalom. In 1993 we had high hopes as the Olympic Committees took a look at slalom. And after 1995 when SLALOM! magazine stopped publishing, the slalom world as Adam and I knew it ground to a halt…with only a few comps continuing- most in the former Baltic states of the Soviet Union. As the wall fell, it became a "Sketchy thing" to consider competing over there. I was scheduled to compete in Russia and I would not have considered it- except Senator John Kerry skated my slalom course on the Charles River and said…"If anything happens and you get stuck, I have experience getting people out" and gave me his phone number. That made me feel a lot better, but when the food shortages started, I bailed.
With the end of publishing for SLALOM! magazine- the flickering light of our sport was extinguished. Jani had taken on a lot to try and run a very ambitious contest in 1995. With Giant slalom at the Trocadero, Tight slalom at the Trocadero, Banked Slalom at a local skatepark, 100 cones World Record race (There is a photo of that in the current issue of slalom!), a pumping race around a lake, a relay race, and a special slalom. I believe 7 events in three days in 3 different locations. Very ambitious. He pulled it off without a glitch or delay- simply amazing. Yet I imagine, exhausting.
I just came back from The farm 4.0 race and ONLY MC'd and I found that is fun but still is a lot to do. Jani did the timing, MC, course setting, organized the competitors and signed them up, registered the racers, was judge, trained the cone marshalls, got the permits, handed out the prizes, threw the after party, secured lodging for the skaters, leased a bus for a bus tour of Paris at night for the skaters, and was willing to translate for nearly every skater rules in Swedish, English, and French- and arrange for Visas for the Russian skaters (requiring an organization….and a special stamp). Somehow, arranged for ramps to be built. Set up huge tents, and a sound system. All without any glitches. It's a lot of pressure…..oh yeah, he also competed, and did well, I believe also being on the of the skaters to Beat Martin Sweeny's long standing World record for 100 cones.
But that was a lot of work for one person. I think that would make anyone feel a little burnt out. Jani was also head of his software company, as he is still today.
In comparison to the race this last weekend. We had two events. Tway and Tk shared the load, I mc'd, Troy Smart built the ramps. Steve Hays threw the party. Everyone spoke English. Everyone arranged for their own transportation. No travel visas were required. And we weren't attempting to get a permit from across the Eiffel Tower. Hosting 7 events in 3 locations with 3 permits and the insurance for all. The entry fee? I think it was $40 US. including the bus tour, after party etc.
Hosting a race like The farm is hard. Trying to host an event like the Verrieres open nearly single-handedly for 50 skaters in 1995 would seem impossible to me.
I am thankful that we have a number of organizers sharing the load. In 1995 we wouldn't even have enough slalomers to skate at three different contests in the USA in a single weekend. We have timer staff (that donates their time- amazingly) and travels to our events to make sure they run well. Gesmer and the Gambles, Iacovellis, and countless other wives who unknowingly get sucked into this timer pressure cooker make it all happen.
In 1995 Slalom was Jani Soderhall. There was no USA scene.
When Jani withdrew from SLALOM! to me and Adam T- it appeared the sport completely collapsed.
I certainly don't want to see Jack Smith experience burnout. I also welcome Jack Smith as the owner of slalomskateboarder.com.
It is important that no single person take on so much responsibility that slalom loses its fun. For to lose a successful promoter is a very costly thing. Jani was the glue that held the skaters together and for many skaters, Jack is the same. You can always be assured of the Best attendance at Jack's Competitions.
Jani said to me several times over the years…the only thing that will get slalom really going again is to have the USA involved once again. I thought it would be nearly impossible to unearth the older slalom legends. I talked with Henry Hester in 1991 and 1992 at the SIA (Snowboard and ski industry trade show- while he worked for Mervin Manufacturing). Henry said he doubted he would ever slalom again. I spoke with Steve Cathy (Ride snowboards- (Former G & S rider) he said he doubted he would slalom again. Many of the old skate legends were in the snowboard industry as I was. I thought getting out of shape people to slalom at over 40 years old would be nearly impossible.
I went and skated at WLAC and got some East/West Rivalry going with Chris Chaput on NCDSA.com I barely beat Chris (I think the win was less than a 1/100th of a second) in the GS, but I swept the events and got some skaters pissed enough to get up and skate.
Jack was Hogan's heroes, Sargent Shultz, rousting the skaters from their beds to skate once again. FCR hosted a series, Manufacturers started up again, independent promoters rushed in to carry the torch when a single series couldn't be sustained.
And here we are today.
But we have to avoid burnout. We ALL have to make sure it stays fun…both for the organizers and the skaters. I watch the skaters at the competitions to make sure its not too many comps. It is important to have the whole party present at a few significant comps. Slalom can't really be a job and survive. It sure is fun though.
We have a new issue of SLALOM! magazine and that is good- as that will likely be the wake up call for some of the European skaters…though the Europeans are the fastest to fill the youth ranks. Many of the great European skaters- will likely never slalom race again, a huge pity, because the talent was the highest I have ever seen. But that is okay if they fill the next generation with younger skaters. It is my estimation that the total sales of slalom gear in Europe will far eclipse the USA sales. Europe will eventually be in a position of supporting the USA manufacturers.
Adam T- did defend the ISSA (International Slalom Skateboard Association) because that was his link to slalom. Adam IS a slalom hermit….as I might remind many of the slalomers that they TOO were slalom hermits at some time or another practicing alone. I know that there are many other slalom hermits- some of whom aren't that interested in competing that currently read this site and NCDSA for their lifeline to slalom. To Adam in Arizona, removed from regular competitions, on call for Heart Surgeries, SLALOM! magazine was his ("Skateboarder magazine") for slalom. He and others looked forward to every issue - I've never seen any copy of SLALOM! that wasn't wrinkled and nearly worn out from multiple reads.
Adam Trahan was very afraid of losing information. For him printed information was his only link to the slalom world, and if it was documented…it was proof that it actually happened. (Kenny Mollica is a bit like this) . Adam liked the way SLALOM! looked with many articles written from many different perspectives. He liked the individual "Character" of all of the articles…The goofy ones, the broken english, the wacked out graphics..There really wasn't anything else like it.
I think this is some of the character he wants to see on this site. Skateboarders in the 1970's were individuals above all else. Skateboarding was anti-teamsports.
Adam wanted to see a cooperative attempt at an online SLALOM! magazine. Which is essentially nearly what we have now. He doesn't want to see only one view point, one perspective, one language, or even……one type of slalom. Neither should we. I am somewhat glad that we don't have an article type format though- and that we again have SLALOM! magazine to fill that void.
So I also think having an editor that changed every 8 months 2/3 of a year ideally so you could become proficient- yet not encumbered - a year tops -or a board of 5 who take turns would help give more than one view point. As for now…"Jack Smith…TAG! .you're it". Two years was too long forAdam Trahan at the helm without relief, and I hope that we could have a new person at the helm within the year. I also would like to suggest that the site fee go up just a few dollars to help recoup some of the site costs. Adam was paid back the costs of slalomskateboarder.com by Jack and rather than have each person pay the next, I think we should just have the fee go up a few dollars until the original costs are recouped.
Two years reached burnout stage for Adam, and a year into it- he likely would have been comfortable with someone else at the helm. Organizers of contests also enjoy being spectators once in a while. I hope Adam will get involved once again as many others have. Again it is a loss whenever someone willing to put his time forward to organize gets burnt out and feels the need to withdraw- and anything we can do as a collective bunch to keep that from happening should be done.
Slalomskateboarder.com is a site belonging to the slalomers and the site costs are born by those who feel it is worth supporting. I think it is exciting to be able to give back to the slalom community by being able to donate a month of the site costs to the rest of the community. I also think those people should be recognized by others for their generosity. 66 (Rick Stanziale) scored a nice Route 66 plaque at The Farm- in part in recognition for his generosity.
I am undecided about the advertisements. IMHO I find it more tranquil to not have ads. It keeps you focused on the information. I also worry about advertising $$$$ support distorting things. "Shshhhh don't write that or you will risk offending an advertiser- we might lose an advertisier" is something we don't need. People need a site where they can be confident that people are supporting without MOTIVE other than the supporting the entire sport. They can rely on the information at slalomskateboarder.com…perhaps more…than a site with advertising. Newbies drive the sales of slalom gear. (Let's face it…the stuff nearly lasts forever for us veterans) and newbies need truth. They need to feel confident about their purchase decisions….or they will delay purchasing…which is absolutely NO GOOD for the manufacturers, the sport, or the newbie.
I also feel that Advertising income makes mags want to help PRODUCE more pseudo manufacturers, and in the case of some current Skateboarding mags helped steer skateboarding to the popsicle stick approach of calling up Watson's lamitates, or Taylor Dykema- tossing some graphics on a cookie cutter deck, buying a few 2 pages spreads- hiring some "pros" and calling yourself a skateboard company without contributing even a smidgen of technology to the advancement of the sport.
On the other hand…I like looking at the Ads. I enjoyed it in skateboarder magazine….and I still enjoy it. I even enjoyed reading the ads that were complete bullshit (Like the 6 wheeled "WHEELIE Board" that was going to revolutionize skateboarding). lol…. How about Alva's ads? Or Kryptonics old ads, Roadriders? Turner Summer Ski (with order form on bottom) All classics.
So I think we could have a place for "Free ads" And it could be in a place like the log in page- say a very small ad about the size of 1/10th of the page with a link to the full sized ad. And they could go through a rotation. Free Ads would help smaller companies that want to get important info out about their products but are otherwise limited. And they are entertaining. Plus we could do fun stuff with the ads like your IP address could be entered to win something….etc… But frankly, I do look at it now….IMHO at most ads should be an extremely minor part of ss.com if they are even to be considered at all. I think that weighing in the pros and cons- we already have ncdsa.com for ads and that is enough. Better to have ads in the daily slalom newspaper than in the slalom encyclopedia anyhow. Maybe a threaded forum PURELY full of ads is enough. (Funny -in Germany- they run all the TV ads in a solid block- and people really look forward to watching those ads- and I think the ads are very creative as a result).
Currently all the manufacturers only make slalom gear because they like the sport. We don't have any of the fast buck scammers that currently exist in other skateboard mags where advertising makes it too easy to convince people to buy the wrong product. I always trusted the advice of my friends over bogus ad claims. I also hate to see money wasted on advertising by manufacturers instead of making newer better products. As slalom is currently grass roots level…I don't see AT ALL how advertising costs are anything but a needless tax on the manufacturers- and any additional cost could make it sink or swim for some.
Jack likes Slalomskateboarder.com if he didn't like it he wouldn't have bought it. However….I do think that Jack will likely add some new appreciated content over time…perhaps a "museum of slalom" archive of classic photos and contest memorabilia now that he has the ability to easily do so. Its that type of contribution that as the site rotates through stewardship, that will really make this site something better than a magazine. Congratulations Jack Smith.
aiiit!
- Ali G
I remember talking with Adam T about this site long ago.
A few things about Adam T. It's obvious that he loves slalom. I started talking with Adam T prior to our use of the internet in the Early 1990's. At the time there was no slalom gear to be had other than vintage gear. I had convinced (over several hours of telephone calls) Bob Turner a few months earlier, to pick up a few cans of resin and start to make a batch of Turner Decks for me.
Bob and family were moving to Oregon. As a long time resident of San Diego Oregon's winters were unfamiliar to the Turner family. Bob finished some of the batch of Blackbirds and Classic turner cutaways and fullnoses in while watching his own breath cloud from the cold. The Turners are not winter people. Bob finished these decks- his question to me… "John, can you sell them? "
I said "I think so, there are a few people interested, and most importantly because of Slalom! Magazine- there might be a way to get in touch with other slalomers. Adam Trahan is one guy I've been talking to and he is really excited to get a board. He is a slalomer way out in Arizona." (The term "Slalom Hermit" hadn't even been coined yet). "There are a few slalomers on the East Coast as well- Tom Armstrong (New Yorker Recently relocated to Gaithersburg) Jon Shea (Boston), Taji Saotome (Boston), Pierre, Jeannie Clarke Hannen (of South Kent Connecticut- they seem to be really stoked about the arrival of the new decks. We will have to see how many of them are willing to compete. (Tom Armstrong was one of the fastest slalomers I ever saw…never competed though intended to, Only Jeannie, who was ironically the slowest of the crew, went with me to compete at the Trocadero in 1995.)
Adam T. bought a Blackbird from me, a few hyper stradas, and a set of seismics. It was a magical combination. It made you YEARN to ride. (Those sidewalless Blackbirds had a ride that hasn't yet been duplicated for cruising). Adam was eager to see slalom move forward again. He tracked slalom's progress through the 1990's watching with hope as many of the Europeans and I did that the Olympic Committees would take notice of slalom. In 1993 we had high hopes as the Olympic Committees took a look at slalom. And after 1995 when SLALOM! magazine stopped publishing, the slalom world as Adam and I knew it ground to a halt…with only a few comps continuing- most in the former Baltic states of the Soviet Union. As the wall fell, it became a "Sketchy thing" to consider competing over there. I was scheduled to compete in Russia and I would not have considered it- except Senator John Kerry skated my slalom course on the Charles River and said…"If anything happens and you get stuck, I have experience getting people out" and gave me his phone number. That made me feel a lot better, but when the food shortages started, I bailed.
With the end of publishing for SLALOM! magazine- the flickering light of our sport was extinguished. Jani had taken on a lot to try and run a very ambitious contest in 1995. With Giant slalom at the Trocadero, Tight slalom at the Trocadero, Banked Slalom at a local skatepark, 100 cones World Record race (There is a photo of that in the current issue of slalom!), a pumping race around a lake, a relay race, and a special slalom. I believe 7 events in three days in 3 different locations. Very ambitious. He pulled it off without a glitch or delay- simply amazing. Yet I imagine, exhausting.
I just came back from The farm 4.0 race and ONLY MC'd and I found that is fun but still is a lot to do. Jani did the timing, MC, course setting, organized the competitors and signed them up, registered the racers, was judge, trained the cone marshalls, got the permits, handed out the prizes, threw the after party, secured lodging for the skaters, leased a bus for a bus tour of Paris at night for the skaters, and was willing to translate for nearly every skater rules in Swedish, English, and French- and arrange for Visas for the Russian skaters (requiring an organization….and a special stamp). Somehow, arranged for ramps to be built. Set up huge tents, and a sound system. All without any glitches. It's a lot of pressure…..oh yeah, he also competed, and did well, I believe also being on the of the skaters to Beat Martin Sweeny's long standing World record for 100 cones.
But that was a lot of work for one person. I think that would make anyone feel a little burnt out. Jani was also head of his software company, as he is still today.
In comparison to the race this last weekend. We had two events. Tway and Tk shared the load, I mc'd, Troy Smart built the ramps. Steve Hays threw the party. Everyone spoke English. Everyone arranged for their own transportation. No travel visas were required. And we weren't attempting to get a permit from across the Eiffel Tower. Hosting 7 events in 3 locations with 3 permits and the insurance for all. The entry fee? I think it was $40 US. including the bus tour, after party etc.
Hosting a race like The farm is hard. Trying to host an event like the Verrieres open nearly single-handedly for 50 skaters in 1995 would seem impossible to me.
I am thankful that we have a number of organizers sharing the load. In 1995 we wouldn't even have enough slalomers to skate at three different contests in the USA in a single weekend. We have timer staff (that donates their time- amazingly) and travels to our events to make sure they run well. Gesmer and the Gambles, Iacovellis, and countless other wives who unknowingly get sucked into this timer pressure cooker make it all happen.
In 1995 Slalom was Jani Soderhall. There was no USA scene.
When Jani withdrew from SLALOM! to me and Adam T- it appeared the sport completely collapsed.
I certainly don't want to see Jack Smith experience burnout. I also welcome Jack Smith as the owner of slalomskateboarder.com.
It is important that no single person take on so much responsibility that slalom loses its fun. For to lose a successful promoter is a very costly thing. Jani was the glue that held the skaters together and for many skaters, Jack is the same. You can always be assured of the Best attendance at Jack's Competitions.
Jani said to me several times over the years…the only thing that will get slalom really going again is to have the USA involved once again. I thought it would be nearly impossible to unearth the older slalom legends. I talked with Henry Hester in 1991 and 1992 at the SIA (Snowboard and ski industry trade show- while he worked for Mervin Manufacturing). Henry said he doubted he would ever slalom again. I spoke with Steve Cathy (Ride snowboards- (Former G & S rider) he said he doubted he would slalom again. Many of the old skate legends were in the snowboard industry as I was. I thought getting out of shape people to slalom at over 40 years old would be nearly impossible.
I went and skated at WLAC and got some East/West Rivalry going with Chris Chaput on NCDSA.com I barely beat Chris (I think the win was less than a 1/100th of a second) in the GS, but I swept the events and got some skaters pissed enough to get up and skate.
Jack was Hogan's heroes, Sargent Shultz, rousting the skaters from their beds to skate once again. FCR hosted a series, Manufacturers started up again, independent promoters rushed in to carry the torch when a single series couldn't be sustained.
And here we are today.
But we have to avoid burnout. We ALL have to make sure it stays fun…both for the organizers and the skaters. I watch the skaters at the competitions to make sure its not too many comps. It is important to have the whole party present at a few significant comps. Slalom can't really be a job and survive. It sure is fun though.
We have a new issue of SLALOM! magazine and that is good- as that will likely be the wake up call for some of the European skaters…though the Europeans are the fastest to fill the youth ranks. Many of the great European skaters- will likely never slalom race again, a huge pity, because the talent was the highest I have ever seen. But that is okay if they fill the next generation with younger skaters. It is my estimation that the total sales of slalom gear in Europe will far eclipse the USA sales. Europe will eventually be in a position of supporting the USA manufacturers.
Adam T- did defend the ISSA (International Slalom Skateboard Association) because that was his link to slalom. Adam IS a slalom hermit….as I might remind many of the slalomers that they TOO were slalom hermits at some time or another practicing alone. I know that there are many other slalom hermits- some of whom aren't that interested in competing that currently read this site and NCDSA for their lifeline to slalom. To Adam in Arizona, removed from regular competitions, on call for Heart Surgeries, SLALOM! magazine was his ("Skateboarder magazine") for slalom. He and others looked forward to every issue - I've never seen any copy of SLALOM! that wasn't wrinkled and nearly worn out from multiple reads.
Adam Trahan was very afraid of losing information. For him printed information was his only link to the slalom world, and if it was documented…it was proof that it actually happened. (Kenny Mollica is a bit like this) . Adam liked the way SLALOM! looked with many articles written from many different perspectives. He liked the individual "Character" of all of the articles…The goofy ones, the broken english, the wacked out graphics..There really wasn't anything else like it.
I think this is some of the character he wants to see on this site. Skateboarders in the 1970's were individuals above all else. Skateboarding was anti-teamsports.
Adam wanted to see a cooperative attempt at an online SLALOM! magazine. Which is essentially nearly what we have now. He doesn't want to see only one view point, one perspective, one language, or even……one type of slalom. Neither should we. I am somewhat glad that we don't have an article type format though- and that we again have SLALOM! magazine to fill that void.
So I also think having an editor that changed every 8 months 2/3 of a year ideally so you could become proficient- yet not encumbered - a year tops -or a board of 5 who take turns would help give more than one view point. As for now…"Jack Smith…TAG! .you're it". Two years was too long forAdam Trahan at the helm without relief, and I hope that we could have a new person at the helm within the year. I also would like to suggest that the site fee go up just a few dollars to help recoup some of the site costs. Adam was paid back the costs of slalomskateboarder.com by Jack and rather than have each person pay the next, I think we should just have the fee go up a few dollars until the original costs are recouped.
Two years reached burnout stage for Adam, and a year into it- he likely would have been comfortable with someone else at the helm. Organizers of contests also enjoy being spectators once in a while. I hope Adam will get involved once again as many others have. Again it is a loss whenever someone willing to put his time forward to organize gets burnt out and feels the need to withdraw- and anything we can do as a collective bunch to keep that from happening should be done.
Slalomskateboarder.com is a site belonging to the slalomers and the site costs are born by those who feel it is worth supporting. I think it is exciting to be able to give back to the slalom community by being able to donate a month of the site costs to the rest of the community. I also think those people should be recognized by others for their generosity. 66 (Rick Stanziale) scored a nice Route 66 plaque at The Farm- in part in recognition for his generosity.
I am undecided about the advertisements. IMHO I find it more tranquil to not have ads. It keeps you focused on the information. I also worry about advertising $$$$ support distorting things. "Shshhhh don't write that or you will risk offending an advertiser- we might lose an advertisier" is something we don't need. People need a site where they can be confident that people are supporting without MOTIVE other than the supporting the entire sport. They can rely on the information at slalomskateboarder.com…perhaps more…than a site with advertising. Newbies drive the sales of slalom gear. (Let's face it…the stuff nearly lasts forever for us veterans) and newbies need truth. They need to feel confident about their purchase decisions….or they will delay purchasing…which is absolutely NO GOOD for the manufacturers, the sport, or the newbie.
I also feel that Advertising income makes mags want to help PRODUCE more pseudo manufacturers, and in the case of some current Skateboarding mags helped steer skateboarding to the popsicle stick approach of calling up Watson's lamitates, or Taylor Dykema- tossing some graphics on a cookie cutter deck, buying a few 2 pages spreads- hiring some "pros" and calling yourself a skateboard company without contributing even a smidgen of technology to the advancement of the sport.
On the other hand…I like looking at the Ads. I enjoyed it in skateboarder magazine….and I still enjoy it. I even enjoyed reading the ads that were complete bullshit (Like the 6 wheeled "WHEELIE Board" that was going to revolutionize skateboarding). lol…. How about Alva's ads? Or Kryptonics old ads, Roadriders? Turner Summer Ski (with order form on bottom) All classics.
So I think we could have a place for "Free ads" And it could be in a place like the log in page- say a very small ad about the size of 1/10th of the page with a link to the full sized ad. And they could go through a rotation. Free Ads would help smaller companies that want to get important info out about their products but are otherwise limited. And they are entertaining. Plus we could do fun stuff with the ads like your IP address could be entered to win something….etc… But frankly, I do look at it now….IMHO at most ads should be an extremely minor part of ss.com if they are even to be considered at all. I think that weighing in the pros and cons- we already have ncdsa.com for ads and that is enough. Better to have ads in the daily slalom newspaper than in the slalom encyclopedia anyhow. Maybe a threaded forum PURELY full of ads is enough. (Funny -in Germany- they run all the TV ads in a solid block- and people really look forward to watching those ads- and I think the ads are very creative as a result).
Currently all the manufacturers only make slalom gear because they like the sport. We don't have any of the fast buck scammers that currently exist in other skateboard mags where advertising makes it too easy to convince people to buy the wrong product. I always trusted the advice of my friends over bogus ad claims. I also hate to see money wasted on advertising by manufacturers instead of making newer better products. As slalom is currently grass roots level…I don't see AT ALL how advertising costs are anything but a needless tax on the manufacturers- and any additional cost could make it sink or swim for some.
Jack likes Slalomskateboarder.com if he didn't like it he wouldn't have bought it. However….I do think that Jack will likely add some new appreciated content over time…perhaps a "museum of slalom" archive of classic photos and contest memorabilia now that he has the ability to easily do so. Its that type of contribution that as the site rotates through stewardship, that will really make this site something better than a magazine. Congratulations Jack Smith.
aiiit!
Last edited by John Gilmour on Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour
john gilmour
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- Etienne
- Posts: 400
- Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 1:00 am
- Contact:
Re: Congratulations Jack Smith!
On Riderz.net there is an ad on top of the window for years, it never affected the contents (only question is: does it make the money raising time would cost...). As a matter of facts, having pros or pro wannabes discussing under brand sections moderated by brands bosses is actually much more surprising, at first look at least. And this certainly has something to do with the fact that riders generally seem to sound more consensual here than elsewhere.John Gilmour wrote:I am undecided about the advertisements. IMHO I find it more tranquil to not have ads. It keeps you focused on the information. I also worry about advertising $$$$ support distorting things.
On Riderz.net there is also an "advertising" section, where you can present what you actually do as skate business. While you are actually proud of it, it's cool to have a section like that where you don't pretend not being involved in what you comment.
i read Jack "bought" the site, does that mean for money ? does that mean that SS.com is a business (and should generate profits), if SS.com is a business what is the position of those who work for it ? Those are questions that have been raised by this announcement. Adam is a skate-pal and a great person, and so for Jack too, that's not the point.
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- Morro Bay Skate legend
- Posts: 736
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Morro Bay, California
- Contact:
Future Plans
Hello All,
I do not forsee major or sweeping changes. I am quite busy at the moment having just purchased justpushplay.com.
I do appreciate all the ideas that have been mentioned over the last few days, and encourage you to keep posting them or emailing them to me at:
jack@slalomskateboarder.com
I would also like to thank everyone who has contributed to slalomskateboarder.com in the past.
I do not forsee major or sweeping changes. I am quite busy at the moment having just purchased justpushplay.com.
I do appreciate all the ideas that have been mentioned over the last few days, and encourage you to keep posting them or emailing them to me at:
jack@slalomskateboarder.com
I would also like to thank everyone who has contributed to slalomskateboarder.com in the past.
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- ISSA President 2011-2024
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Sweden, lives in France
- Contact:
John,John Gilmour wrote:Jani had taken on a lot to try and run a very ambitious contest in 1995. With Giant slalom at the Trocadero, Tight slalom at the Trocadero, Banked Slalom at a local skatepark, 100 cones World Record race (There is a photo of that in the current issue of slalom!), a pumping race around a lake, a relay race, and a special slalom. I believe 7 events in three days in 3 different locations. Very ambitious. He pulled it off without a glitch or delay- simply amazing. Yet I imagine, exhausting.
Thank's for your kind words. However, credit should also be given to Corky. At the time he lived in Paris and we worked together on every single detail of the event, every day. Without his help there would have been no event. In fact we spent so much time putting this together we had to give priority to our work for the next couple of months, which then turned into years...
/Jani
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- Team Roe Racing
- Posts: 1207
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: USA
Even for two people it must have been an astounding amount of work- thanks Corky.
The other cool thing about skaters pledging for the site costs---is that truly the skaters own the site and feel ownership.
Maybe we should have a list of skaters who pledged months of slalomskateboarder.com
The other cool thing about skaters pledging for the site costs---is that truly the skaters own the site and feel ownership.
Maybe we should have a list of skaters who pledged months of slalomskateboarder.com
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour
john gilmour
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- Robert Sydia
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Toronto, Canada
Thanks to Adam and Best Wishes to Jack
I just wanted to thank Adam for establishing this site - as a Canadian who is into slalom - this site has been the greatest knowledge base for me to learn and has been the meeting spot where many friendships have begun. Without this site - I would still be living in a vacum, instead of re-discovering and loving skating.
To Jack - though we have never met - I respect your love and commitment to slalom and skating and know that you will do your best to continue to promote and grow this incredible sport.
To everyone else - thanks for the experience and I am looking for have many more.
All the best,
Rob
To Jack - though we have never met - I respect your love and commitment to slalom and skating and know that you will do your best to continue to promote and grow this incredible sport.
To everyone else - thanks for the experience and I am looking for have many more.
All the best,
Rob
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- Pat C.
- Posts: 1400
- Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Portland Oregon
One suggested action for our new editor
Jack,
My suggestion is that you use your considerable influence in the skateboard community to mend fences between the slalomskateboarder.com site and the NCDSA.com site. It would be really nice if users could at least post a reference to "slalomskateboarder.com" on NCDSA without a hidden editor program changing it to "smarmyskateboarder.com" .
This would make me happy.
-- Pat
My suggestion is that you use your considerable influence in the skateboard community to mend fences between the slalomskateboarder.com site and the NCDSA.com site. It would be really nice if users could at least post a reference to "slalomskateboarder.com" on NCDSA without a hidden editor program changing it to "smarmyskateboarder.com" .
This would make me happy.
-- Pat
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- ISSA President 2011-2024
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Sweden, lives in France
- Contact:
There's already one in the Site administration topic. There's a calendar for months gone by and months to come.John Gilmour wrote:Maybe we should have a list of skaters who pledged months of slalomskateboarder.com
That was easy, now the tricky part...
I'm seriously concerned by the whole ownership topic and I think we have to go to the bottom with it now. Just so we know where we stand. Adam for two years gave us this feeling of shared ownership, invented the sponsorship program and now transferred ownership of the site without discussing it with the community. If it could happen once it'll certainly happen again.John Gilmour wrote:The other cool thing about skaters pledging for the site costs---is that truly the skaters own the site and feel ownership.
I've put in many hours to develop and maintain this site. I've done so for the community. Not for Adam, not for Jack and certainly not for any future owners personal benefit of the site. Just the thought of this site once again having it's ownership changed means I'll reduce my involvement immediately.
If I work for a community, I'll work for free. If I work for someone I want to be paid.
Adam enforced his ideas and held his political speaches for two years, in which at least I believed, then let us all down by his recent actions and words. And by doing so deeply disappointing some of his closest supporters. I don't want to see that happen again.
I need these questions answered:
- Is this a community site?
- Is this site owned by the community?
- Who's property is the files stored on the server?
- Why do community members pay the monthly fee, if someone owns the site in person.
- Could this site be sold?
- Why would a site like this need ads? Who gets the money? What for?
I understand that most visitors just enjoying the occasional (or frequent) visit to the site, don't care much, but there are some of us out there doing a bit more than that.
Jack, your prescence is urgently needed. We can't just "carry on" as usual. At least I can't. I intended to write to you in person, but all of these questions are of interest for all of us and worth discussing in public.
At least I thought this was a community site.
PS. Adam, no need for you to comment. You've done what you've done.
/Jani
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- Morro Bay Skate legend
- Posts: 736
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Morro Bay, California
- Contact:
Questions about SS.Com
Why I bought this site...because I enjoy slalom skateboarding and want to see it continue to grow.
My purchase of the domain from Adam seems to have opened a big can of worms. All I wanted was for the site to continue promoting slalom.
- Is this a community site? Yes.
- Is this site owned by the community? All I own is the domain name and the site hosting service is in my name.
- Who's property is the files stored on the server? The files are owned by the person who posted them.
- Why do community members pay the monthly fee, if someone owns the site in person? If I continue with the site I would not ask for members to pay the monthly fee. The August fees were already paid when I purchased the domain name. Thanks, Rick and also to those who paid the previous months fees.
- Could this site be sold? Yes.
- Why would a site like this need ads? It doesn't need them. As a slalom company owner, "Bahne", I would like to be able to advertise to this audience. Ok, start the howls of conflict of interest.
-Who gets the money? What for? I was thinking it could go to a fund that would be used to promote slalom at the grassroots level.
The more I think about this, maybe it wasn't such a good idea after all.
Jani, your contributions to this site are immeasurable, you know the workings of it better than anyone. Maybe you are the person to administer the site, with input from the slalom community.
I will gladly sign over the domain name and hosting services at no cost to you or anyone else who is interested and technically qualified.
Jack
My purchase of the domain from Adam seems to have opened a big can of worms. All I wanted was for the site to continue promoting slalom.
- Is this a community site? Yes.
- Is this site owned by the community? All I own is the domain name and the site hosting service is in my name.
- Who's property is the files stored on the server? The files are owned by the person who posted them.
- Why do community members pay the monthly fee, if someone owns the site in person? If I continue with the site I would not ask for members to pay the monthly fee. The August fees were already paid when I purchased the domain name. Thanks, Rick and also to those who paid the previous months fees.
- Could this site be sold? Yes.
- Why would a site like this need ads? It doesn't need them. As a slalom company owner, "Bahne", I would like to be able to advertise to this audience. Ok, start the howls of conflict of interest.
-Who gets the money? What for? I was thinking it could go to a fund that would be used to promote slalom at the grassroots level.
The more I think about this, maybe it wasn't such a good idea after all.
Jani, your contributions to this site are immeasurable, you know the workings of it better than anyone. Maybe you are the person to administer the site, with input from the slalom community.
I will gladly sign over the domain name and hosting services at no cost to you or anyone else who is interested and technically qualified.
Jack
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:00 am
Jack, let me answer this because it is quite simple.Jani Soderhall wrote:
I need these questions answered:
- Is this a community site?
- Is this site owned by the community?
- Who's property is the files stored on the server?
- Why do community members pay the monthly fee, if someone owns the site in person.
- Could this site be sold?
- Why would a site like this need ads? Who gets the money? What for?
PS. Adam, no need for you to comment. You've done what you've done.
/Jani
1. Yes, this is a community site, the people who put in the words own those words, they are put in under their name.
2. The files are maintained by the owner of the account (Jack) who pays for the site host.
3. I set up the site because I was unable after so long to justify the expense in time and money to pay for the site. Instead of letting it die, I asked for the communities help because it's a great community.
4. Yes, although you can't hold the site in your hand, it is tangeble and I sold (traded) it to Jack Smith, he owns it.
5. The decisions for the "skin" of the site is in Jack's hands. Ads can be a great way to make the site grow.
Jani, what I have to say is relevant. Shushing me will not work, it is my opinion that you should think carefully about what you want to say next.
I beat the drum for you guys (Jani and Corky) HARD for a long time. I totally dug Slalom! the little magazine, I wanted to see this thing start up again and when the first big color issue came out, ahh, so cool. I read that thing over and over it was so cool to read everyone's name in it but mine. Not one single mention to me, not one place in there mentioning my help.
F-U-C-K that.
Now I can't show my kids and my Mom and Dad what I helped come back to reality. I have to "explain" to them just like I have to do it here.
So I told Jani, Corky and John Gilmour I wanted out. I told them I wanted a "gold watch" for my work and offered the site to them for around $600 USD, about the cost of one race board. I told them which kite surfing kite I wanted (a Blade III 8.5 in gold) for my "gold watch" and John Gilmour stepped up to the plate and said, "I can understand your point, let me try to help you adam." John Gilmour was a friend at this point, you guys choosing to reflect my good words back at me like I didn't know what I said.
Jani and Corky started in on the "ownership" thing at that time, they should have simply said, "Sorry Adam, we forgot..." I even told them that they should have said "sorry" just like I had to tell Corky to welcome Jack as the new editor/owner.
I offered the site out of HONOR first to Jani, Corky and John, Jani and Corky declined, John tried to help me and consoled me about a lot of people being forgotten.
I was clear to find another way out.
I called Jack Smith and told him that I had had enough. I told him EXACTLY what has transpired here. Nothing more or less, forwarded Jani's e-mail and all. I was pissed for being forgotten. I am big on not forgetting who did what and standing up for people as you can see from my actions online. Arab has done a lot for slalom, I went against many people at slalomskateboarder.com to invite him back. Arab had some things to say to me and the bottom line is that I removed his ban and offered him the site sponsorship for February. I don't like what he says but he is slalom just as much and if not more than Jani or John Gilmour! What Arab told me then, I had no idea it that it would come true!
Jack and I have talked a lot through out the last 2-3 years on our common history, he is perfect to take over although he and I have dis-agreed on some things, but I could see how he would be able to finish the project and then see it live a healthy life. He would not forget me or tell me to not chime in as Jani has above.
These guys have had many opportunities to take care and foster this site, it was my intent to give it to them and at one point I tried but they gave me the pep talk and I stood up again and kept going. I stood up for what is write, made my stand and when the people who I thought would support me, forgot me and forgot the guys in England when it came to comps, I then knew I was over my head with this. I had supported Corky with his "forgetting" them and now it was hitting ME!
I wanted out and after honoring Jani, John Gilmour and Corky with the offer of the site ownership and direction for a very reasonable price, they opted out and I then had Jani and John Gilmours approval.
I went to Jack.
Jack has always been a stand up person to me, he has been respectable and will be respectable. I am big on HONOR and RESPECT.
He is the captain of the ship and there has to be a captain no doubt.
As you can see above, I tried diplomacy, tried not to air any dirty laundry but these guys keep at it relentlessly. This is stuff that you guys should not have to read but I have no problem with this because I have no problem following my heart. I made mistakes, I am human, nothing that I can't forgive myself or others over.
It's best for me to let the "community" know the truth or in other words, "my side of the story."
Now you know everything.
There is no more for me to add.
If you have the latest issue of Slalom! Take a look in there and see if I overlooked anything.
These guys are standing up for the direction that I pointed the site in and now telling you I made a mistake in transfering ownership to Jack Smith. I didn't put together a good idea and then make a horrible mistake or a bunch of mistakes, the same person who stood up for the ISSA is now standing up for Jack Smith, imagine that. I am telling you that turning things over to Jack Smith is the BEST choice.
Jack will not forget who does what.
I enjoy the truth and I don't mind explaining my words because I have chosen them carefully in case I have to eat them later.
Jack Smith is the owner/operator and I think you should continue on with your words so we get to know who you are, please do comment.
Have a nice day and best regards,
adam
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- KILL CITY RACING
- Posts: 637
- Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Detroit
OK...I'm having a hard time with this now....I find it difficult to believe that anybody could really have any grievance with this "ownership" issue at all.
Are those that are troubling themsleves about this just being petty or are ego's so large in this sport that people think they should be kept apprised with every aspect and transaction?
Adam...you sound like a stand up guy and it's very unfortunate you were put in the position to have to explain yourself like you just did. The noble thing to do would have been to shake your hand, say "thanks for doing such a great job" and wish you well. I'm in awe and dissapointed that this is not what happened.
Jack..... I dont know you personally, but it's obvious to anybody who follows slalom that your an ambassador to the sport and a good spokesman for the community.
So you own the site name. Great.
Can you "mend" the rift between SS.com and NCDSA?. Maybe.
Does your ownership change the fact i read and post here and there? No
Should you advertise Bahne? Why not? I know i would
To folks who are making a mountain out of a molehill....please!...you've GOT to have something more important to lose sleep over than this!....
Are those that are troubling themsleves about this just being petty or are ego's so large in this sport that people think they should be kept apprised with every aspect and transaction?
Adam...you sound like a stand up guy and it's very unfortunate you were put in the position to have to explain yourself like you just did. The noble thing to do would have been to shake your hand, say "thanks for doing such a great job" and wish you well. I'm in awe and dissapointed that this is not what happened.
Jack..... I dont know you personally, but it's obvious to anybody who follows slalom that your an ambassador to the sport and a good spokesman for the community.
So you own the site name. Great.
Can you "mend" the rift between SS.com and NCDSA?. Maybe.
Does your ownership change the fact i read and post here and there? No
Should you advertise Bahne? Why not? I know i would
To folks who are making a mountain out of a molehill....please!...you've GOT to have something more important to lose sleep over than this!....
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:00 am
Chris,
Thank you for responding.
Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in and I applaud your decision to speak up here.
NO ONE should have had to read this.
Thank you for welcoming Jack, this is what this thread is all about.
He will do a good job. You only have to look at one's history to see what they are going to do in the future...
All the best,
adam
Thank you for responding.
Sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in and I applaud your decision to speak up here.
NO ONE should have had to read this.
Thank you for welcoming Jack, this is what this thread is all about.
He will do a good job. You only have to look at one's history to see what they are going to do in the future...
All the best,
adam
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- Harbor Skateboard Racing
- Posts: 358
- Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: Los Angeles
In nonsensical German: Das gibt mir nicht ein fliegen Fiche
Hey all
I'm not choosing sides here. I hope it hasn't really come to that.
For the record, I think you're all just fine. You like to slalom. That should earn everyone both forgiveness and respect, whichever may be necessary at the moment (not that it matters what I think).
Here's my point:
This site has a lot of potential. It needs the California contingent on board. It needs the Brits. It already has the USA East & Midwest bigtime, which is really cool. It has a good amount of European traffic. It should not compete with NCDSA. The fat traffic is there and that's a good thing. My feeling is that a good tone has been established here. An increase in traffic here as well could only benefit everyone concerned.
BTW, Thanks to Adam, Jani, Corky, John, Glenn & everybody else who made this site what it is.
--and, especially--
Right on, Jack!
I'm not choosing sides here. I hope it hasn't really come to that.
For the record, I think you're all just fine. You like to slalom. That should earn everyone both forgiveness and respect, whichever may be necessary at the moment (not that it matters what I think).
Here's my point:
This site has a lot of potential. It needs the California contingent on board. It needs the Brits. It already has the USA East & Midwest bigtime, which is really cool. It has a good amount of European traffic. It should not compete with NCDSA. The fat traffic is there and that's a good thing. My feeling is that a good tone has been established here. An increase in traffic here as well could only benefit everyone concerned.
BTW, Thanks to Adam, Jani, Corky, John, Glenn & everybody else who made this site what it is.
--and, especially--
Right on, Jack!
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- ISSA President 2011-2024
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Sweden, lives in France
- Contact:
Adam,
Calm down. We know you overreacted on the Slalom! mag thing. A bit too much for my taste though. OK, we forgot to put a "Thank you, Adam" in the magazine, but it's not over yet. It was just issue 24. There will be other issues. As I've told you the magazine probably wouldn't have happened unless this site existed. Corky once told you "The magazine has your name written all over it". You accepted no excuses and you continue to swear at us. That's inexcusable and extremely unpolite.
Now let's look forward, not backwards.
The site was in safe hands when you ran it. You started it, it got to the stage where it is now. What I don't know is where it goes from here. I don't want another minor event ruin the future of this site. Just imagine if Jack would be as sensitive as you have now been. For sure we'll forget to mention him one day somewhere, maybe even critisize his actions. If that means he'll run off and get rid of the site, the community may be in trouble. That's why this needs to be discussed by the community. The site shouldn't be in the hands of one person, not me either. We need to come up with a way to ensure a healthy life for the site and make it less dependable upon one persons opinion or actions.
Now Adam, please do not respond. If you want to argue this topic with me over and over again, we can do so off-line. I'm interested what other people think.
Opinions welcome!
...and once again, this is not a for or against Jack topic. He's doing everything for this sport. No doubt about it. It's about the definition of a community site.
/Jani
PS. Sorry Jack, I'll come back and respond to your post too, but I needed to get this off the air.
Calm down. We know you overreacted on the Slalom! mag thing. A bit too much for my taste though. OK, we forgot to put a "Thank you, Adam" in the magazine, but it's not over yet. It was just issue 24. There will be other issues. As I've told you the magazine probably wouldn't have happened unless this site existed. Corky once told you "The magazine has your name written all over it". You accepted no excuses and you continue to swear at us. That's inexcusable and extremely unpolite.
Now let's look forward, not backwards.
The site was in safe hands when you ran it. You started it, it got to the stage where it is now. What I don't know is where it goes from here. I don't want another minor event ruin the future of this site. Just imagine if Jack would be as sensitive as you have now been. For sure we'll forget to mention him one day somewhere, maybe even critisize his actions. If that means he'll run off and get rid of the site, the community may be in trouble. That's why this needs to be discussed by the community. The site shouldn't be in the hands of one person, not me either. We need to come up with a way to ensure a healthy life for the site and make it less dependable upon one persons opinion or actions.
Now Adam, please do not respond. If you want to argue this topic with me over and over again, we can do so off-line. I'm interested what other people think.
Opinions welcome!
...and once again, this is not a for or against Jack topic. He's doing everything for this sport. No doubt about it. It's about the definition of a community site.
/Jani
PS. Sorry Jack, I'll come back and respond to your post too, but I needed to get this off the air.
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:00 am
Jani,
I am quite calm and have never cursed you. Above I used the "F" word on purpose, it sort of felt good as I have been holding back for quite some time. I know who I am and I don't have a problem discussing politics or anything else, it just has to be about respect, much of which you lack at this time. In other words, speak for yourself, you are one person, you don't speak for the community anymore than I did or do or that Jack does...
You continue to widen the gap with words like "The site was in safe hands when you ran it..." and you talk out of both sides of your mouth when you speak at me like you have. I did good here, bad there. I don't go back and forth Jani, you say what you have to say and then I get to say what I say, that's how it goes unless Jack decides otherwise. I have been clear about what I say about you.
The ISSA is dead.
It died a long time ago for what ever reason. I was told this but didn't believe it. So many people told me, some of them I didn't like, all of them I respected. I made a mistake trying to resurect it and trying to point skateboard slalom in a direction that was resistant to take (ski racing). I forgot where I came from, skateboard slalom is done on a skateboard. Duh.
Things happen for a reason and as an old man, I want to be able to move forward and not forget the past because for me, looking forward is good but not forgetting your roots and where you came from actually helps with progresssion.
Don't tell me to not respond and then preface it like you don't want to argue this out in public. I tried to do this with extreme diplomacy FIRST. I didn't want to air any personal beliefs. I did all this BEHIND THE SCENE FIRST, I even told Jack the caveats of dealing with you and Corky. Now you push it and your words widen the gap and you want to point the finger at me.
"F-word" again.
Steve has it write (double entendre') we need everyone here.
Now I am not pissed at you, or Corky, or anyone. John Gilmour is the reason why all this is occuring. He is the strongest link. He voices his opinion at both sites as does Jack. It's not about me saying you are wrong all the time. It's about respect. We have all done what we could, can and will do and continue to do so. The point being is that the truth of the matter is that Jack Smith is the editor because I made a choice, a good choice that we all seem to agree on. We just got to know each other over the last two years...
The cool thing is, Bahne (and "Blackhill" boards) and Jack Smith will do a good job for the initiate and old slalom pro alike.
This site is set up well, it's stronger than this besides, I haven't gotten my kite yet, if that doesn't come through, it will be back in my hands.
*grin*
Jack is the editor/owner and I can't speak for anyone else but I bet that he will do a good job. I would ask that you be yourself, heck, don't watch what you say, that way, people will get to know more about you.
Later,
adam
I am quite calm and have never cursed you. Above I used the "F" word on purpose, it sort of felt good as I have been holding back for quite some time. I know who I am and I don't have a problem discussing politics or anything else, it just has to be about respect, much of which you lack at this time. In other words, speak for yourself, you are one person, you don't speak for the community anymore than I did or do or that Jack does...
You continue to widen the gap with words like "The site was in safe hands when you ran it..." and you talk out of both sides of your mouth when you speak at me like you have. I did good here, bad there. I don't go back and forth Jani, you say what you have to say and then I get to say what I say, that's how it goes unless Jack decides otherwise. I have been clear about what I say about you.
The ISSA is dead.
It died a long time ago for what ever reason. I was told this but didn't believe it. So many people told me, some of them I didn't like, all of them I respected. I made a mistake trying to resurect it and trying to point skateboard slalom in a direction that was resistant to take (ski racing). I forgot where I came from, skateboard slalom is done on a skateboard. Duh.
Things happen for a reason and as an old man, I want to be able to move forward and not forget the past because for me, looking forward is good but not forgetting your roots and where you came from actually helps with progresssion.
Don't tell me to not respond and then preface it like you don't want to argue this out in public. I tried to do this with extreme diplomacy FIRST. I didn't want to air any personal beliefs. I did all this BEHIND THE SCENE FIRST, I even told Jack the caveats of dealing with you and Corky. Now you push it and your words widen the gap and you want to point the finger at me.
"F-word" again.
Steve has it write (double entendre') we need everyone here.
Now I am not pissed at you, or Corky, or anyone. John Gilmour is the reason why all this is occuring. He is the strongest link. He voices his opinion at both sites as does Jack. It's not about me saying you are wrong all the time. It's about respect. We have all done what we could, can and will do and continue to do so. The point being is that the truth of the matter is that Jack Smith is the editor because I made a choice, a good choice that we all seem to agree on. We just got to know each other over the last two years...
The cool thing is, Bahne (and "Blackhill" boards) and Jack Smith will do a good job for the initiate and old slalom pro alike.
This site is set up well, it's stronger than this besides, I haven't gotten my kite yet, if that doesn't come through, it will be back in my hands.
*grin*
Jack is the editor/owner and I can't speak for anyone else but I bet that he will do a good job. I would ask that you be yourself, heck, don't watch what you say, that way, people will get to know more about you.
Later,
adam
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- Phoenix G.R.S. Tom
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Phoenix, AZ
O.K. this is getting silly. I don't care who "owns" this site, as long as it is still here so I can voice my opinion freely. I know Adam, and I know he has a full, busy life and had to "trim the fat" somehow. I also know Jack, and believe that he would never do ANYTHING to jeopardize the existance of this site, or the free speach we all enjoy here. I like the fact that when I ask a question about a slalom topic, I get many opinions and can choose what works best for me.
Can we all get back to argueing about what wheels, trucks, decks, ect. are better.
F*U*C*K
There, now I've said it too.
I may not be fast, and I don't win.
But I'm gonna "shut up and skate"
You all should too!!!
Can we all get back to argueing about what wheels, trucks, decks, ect. are better.
F*U*C*K
There, now I've said it too.
I may not be fast, and I don't win.
But I'm gonna "shut up and skate"
You all should too!!!
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- Gecko Decks
- Posts: 732
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Park City,Utah!
- Contact:
Moderators note: The below message is Michael Stride posting via Martin Drayton's computer by accident. Further down in this tread is a post by Martin stating these are not his words. But I am unable to change the name and picture as per Martin requests. This note is the best I can do to make others aware of what has happened here.
Good luck and best wishes to Jack Smith with his stewardhip of this site. Ther is a place for a different site to NCDSA, with a discusion format in topics like this one. There is a place and a need for both.
The ISSA lost the support of the UK riders when its longstanding race series was ignored, and acknowledgement of the costs and difficulty of regular enthusastic skaters to attend Euro comps was not forthcoming. Personnally I had enough of ISSA officials when one of them offered to fight me at Paris. We had a legitamate grievance as to how Paul Price was knocked out by Chris Hart, and I got some ugly french twat pissing me off.
For a sports organisation to be taken seriously you must LISTEN to the people who participate. The world ranking system as designed by Corky was a non-starter, as UK racers were unfairly left out on a limb. The ISSA became irrelevant for our racing series.
So, good luck to Jack, and good luck to this site. Adam has certainly helped the resurgence of slalom here, and long may it continue.
Good luck and best wishes to Jack Smith with his stewardhip of this site. Ther is a place for a different site to NCDSA, with a discusion format in topics like this one. There is a place and a need for both.
The ISSA lost the support of the UK riders when its longstanding race series was ignored, and acknowledgement of the costs and difficulty of regular enthusastic skaters to attend Euro comps was not forthcoming. Personnally I had enough of ISSA officials when one of them offered to fight me at Paris. We had a legitamate grievance as to how Paul Price was knocked out by Chris Hart, and I got some ugly french twat pissing me off.
For a sports organisation to be taken seriously you must LISTEN to the people who participate. The world ranking system as designed by Corky was a non-starter, as UK racers were unfairly left out on a limb. The ISSA became irrelevant for our racing series.
So, good luck to Jack, and good luck to this site. Adam has certainly helped the resurgence of slalom here, and long may it continue.
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/martindrayton/skateboarding/TT-small.gif)
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Decent Hardware
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-
- ISSA President 2011-2024
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Sweden, lives in France
- Contact:
-
- ISSA President 2011-2024
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Sweden, lives in France
- Contact:
This is not the for or against ISSA thread. If it's needed let's start one of those discussions in another thread!
At the same time this site has been closely linked to the ISSA and if it wasn't for the ISSA it would probably never have started. It was started in the honour of what was done by the ISSA in the 80's and 90's. Adam hoped it would help revive the ISSA. I hoped to, but at the same time I was not ready to take on the work for a full organization, so we got on with the site hoping that it'll take the sport in the right direction.
It has and it will.
Everybody attending this site and everybody attending any competition anywhere has realized the need for some consistent handling of events and the rules governing these events. And it is those that cry out the loudest that needs them the most. I'm convinced that the continued existance of this site will eventually lead to the resurgence of the ISSA.
Of course, we can't call it the same, because so many love to hate that name. But it'll be the same thing, just a different name, different people, new rules, the same but different. Some will agree, some will not. Some rules will appear as good for some people, bad for others. How could we ever agree on all topics? We'll never totally agree, but still there has to come a kind of consensus that allows us all to co-exist and skate together. Hopefully preserving some of the regional differences. That's part of the charm.
People will always hate people that try to organize something. When the FCR was active, many were screaming and shouting about mistakes done.
When the World Ranking was re-invented recently it gave people something else to argue about. Everybody who's ever ran a race has been criticized. The wellknown conclusion is that everybody who does something on a larger scale will always be criticized.
Now, let's get back to the original topic. What we're trying to discuss in this thread is how this site should be driven from now on.
- Should we allow the sites future to be decided by one person?
- Isn't this a suitable time to discuss what can and should be done with this site?
- Wouldn't it be good if we could turn this into a real community site which somehow has a shared ownership, shared costs, shared workload?
Once again this has nothing to do with Jack Smith, or Adam Trahan, or myself. The bottom line is: Is the site a community owned site or is it privately owned ?
Rather than just sit back and hope that this site will have a successful long life, isn't this the opportunity to discuss it's future?
/Jani
At the same time this site has been closely linked to the ISSA and if it wasn't for the ISSA it would probably never have started. It was started in the honour of what was done by the ISSA in the 80's and 90's. Adam hoped it would help revive the ISSA. I hoped to, but at the same time I was not ready to take on the work for a full organization, so we got on with the site hoping that it'll take the sport in the right direction.
It has and it will.
Everybody attending this site and everybody attending any competition anywhere has realized the need for some consistent handling of events and the rules governing these events. And it is those that cry out the loudest that needs them the most. I'm convinced that the continued existance of this site will eventually lead to the resurgence of the ISSA.
Of course, we can't call it the same, because so many love to hate that name. But it'll be the same thing, just a different name, different people, new rules, the same but different. Some will agree, some will not. Some rules will appear as good for some people, bad for others. How could we ever agree on all topics? We'll never totally agree, but still there has to come a kind of consensus that allows us all to co-exist and skate together. Hopefully preserving some of the regional differences. That's part of the charm.
People will always hate people that try to organize something. When the FCR was active, many were screaming and shouting about mistakes done.
When the World Ranking was re-invented recently it gave people something else to argue about. Everybody who's ever ran a race has been criticized. The wellknown conclusion is that everybody who does something on a larger scale will always be criticized.
Now, let's get back to the original topic. What we're trying to discuss in this thread is how this site should be driven from now on.
- Should we allow the sites future to be decided by one person?
- Isn't this a suitable time to discuss what can and should be done with this site?
- Wouldn't it be good if we could turn this into a real community site which somehow has a shared ownership, shared costs, shared workload?
Once again this has nothing to do with Jack Smith, or Adam Trahan, or myself. The bottom line is: Is the site a community owned site or is it privately owned ?
Rather than just sit back and hope that this site will have a successful long life, isn't this the opportunity to discuss it's future?
/Jani
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- Posts: 74
- Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2003 1:00 am
- Location: Bombora's, California
Many thanks are in order to Adam Trahan on his creation and stewardship of ss.com for the last two years. This last year, especially, has seen an enormous growth spurt. Thank you, Adam for all you have done for the ss community!
Congratulations are in order for my friend Jack Smith. Jack is juggling a ton of different endeavors, but I know with ss.com, he will do as he sees best for the slalom community as a whole.
Thanks and congratulations to both of you gentlemen.
Congratulations are in order for my friend Jack Smith. Jack is juggling a ton of different endeavors, but I know with ss.com, he will do as he sees best for the slalom community as a whole.
Thanks and congratulations to both of you gentlemen.
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:00 am
Thanks Rick, Dan, Steve, Jack, Tom, Mark, Chris, John, Robert, Steve, Martin and Nick (Shaggy and the rest of you who have thanked me in e-mail). I appreciate your support.
The site is growing no doubt. I stayed a little too long and got involved with some things (WRS) that I had no business in with the limited time that I have available. Unfortunately, I was selfish in that it took this forgetfulness to hit home (me) to realize that the divide was growing right between my feet. Arab told me that I had divided the communty and although I told him that that was ridiculous, it ended up that yes, I was headed in that direction.
Thank G~d it worked out the way it has.
John Gilmour would have done a good job but he was not going to be at the helm. Jack was told all of this prior to his acceptance of it. He took this on, he is enigmatic in some of his words above but what ever he chooses to do, I support him.
When you make a magazine such as Slalom! you reflect on the past. When Jani started making Slalom! way back when, there was no e-mail or web sites. You communicated by letters and many of them crossed international borders. Communicating by a letter and by e-mail is quite different in regards to time. In a magazine, you have an editor that makes the final decision to put the thing to print. Hopefully it is an objective reflection of what happens. An internet forum is nearly real time. Although much of what is read in forums is subjective, what I find is that you have the ability to "feel the pulse" of what is going on in the community. What you have here is more heart and soul than a "static" magazine can reflect, it's about people. Slalom! is a great little magazine and it helped us create something a little bit more alive here. I think Jack will be able to balance what Slalom! lacks, a pulse.
I am sorry that you guys had to read all this but ultimately, I think this is all good and will prove to let this community know who we are as people.
Best to you all,
adam
p.s. Tom, I can't wait to start practicing with you again (and kick your ass!) You my friend, I have learned some things from you about the heart. Please get Loneskater down here in the fall or let's make a trip up there for another 100 cone event. I have the Plankk-R from Vlad or the Jani S-Camber to make my attempts now, watch out!
The site is growing no doubt. I stayed a little too long and got involved with some things (WRS) that I had no business in with the limited time that I have available. Unfortunately, I was selfish in that it took this forgetfulness to hit home (me) to realize that the divide was growing right between my feet. Arab told me that I had divided the communty and although I told him that that was ridiculous, it ended up that yes, I was headed in that direction.
Thank G~d it worked out the way it has.
John Gilmour would have done a good job but he was not going to be at the helm. Jack was told all of this prior to his acceptance of it. He took this on, he is enigmatic in some of his words above but what ever he chooses to do, I support him.
When you make a magazine such as Slalom! you reflect on the past. When Jani started making Slalom! way back when, there was no e-mail or web sites. You communicated by letters and many of them crossed international borders. Communicating by a letter and by e-mail is quite different in regards to time. In a magazine, you have an editor that makes the final decision to put the thing to print. Hopefully it is an objective reflection of what happens. An internet forum is nearly real time. Although much of what is read in forums is subjective, what I find is that you have the ability to "feel the pulse" of what is going on in the community. What you have here is more heart and soul than a "static" magazine can reflect, it's about people. Slalom! is a great little magazine and it helped us create something a little bit more alive here. I think Jack will be able to balance what Slalom! lacks, a pulse.
I am sorry that you guys had to read all this but ultimately, I think this is all good and will prove to let this community know who we are as people.
Best to you all,
adam
p.s. Tom, I can't wait to start practicing with you again (and kick your ass!) You my friend, I have learned some things from you about the heart. Please get Loneskater down here in the fall or let's make a trip up there for another 100 cone event. I have the Plankk-R from Vlad or the Jani S-Camber to make my attempts now, watch out!
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- Gecko Decks
- Posts: 732
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Park City,Utah!
- Contact:
Jani is right (for once)
Moderators note: Again, the below message is Michael Stride posting via Martin Drayton's computer. Further down in this tread is a post by Martin stating these are not his words
Yes Jani, Its Michael , not 'Micheal' using Martins computer....sorry didnt realise it was still logged in as his name.
By the way, I dont post using a psuedonym either.
Next time I race in France I want your represntative put back in the gutter where he came from, and kept million miles from me. Does he skate?
Also, next time you try to sell me your magazine, dont go giving so many copies away. Or give them to me to pass out for free too. I'm not subsidising your vanity publishing for you.
Michael Stride
Yes Jani, Its Michael , not 'Micheal' using Martins computer....sorry didnt realise it was still logged in as his name.
By the way, I dont post using a psuedonym either.
Next time I race in France I want your represntative put back in the gutter where he came from, and kept million miles from me. Does he skate?
Also, next time you try to sell me your magazine, dont go giving so many copies away. Or give them to me to pass out for free too. I'm not subsidising your vanity publishing for you.
Michael Stride
![Image](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v204/martindrayton/skateboarding/TT-small.gif)
http://www.geckodecks.com
Seismic.
Khiro /NITRO Bearings,
Decent Hardware
http://www.headblade.com/Merchant2/merc ... IL=drayton
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:00 am
final notes
Michael (Martin
),
My apologies to you Michael Stride (Chris Linford et al) for loosing my way. I made a big mistake by forgetting where I came from. I'm not talking about Hans making the WRS, I believe that this could be a good thing, but of taking the liscense to endorse something that I had absolutely no business in doing. I was corrupt (sic) and supported something that I did not investigate fully or understand. I hope you see this as sincere. I am big on honor and most importantly actions speaking for who we are.
I made a mistake, my sincere apologies.
Speaking of actions.
It's interesting to note that there is such a strong interest by Jani and Hans in exploring ownership publicly when in essence, that was previously discussed and settled in private as it should have been. I never once questioned the ownership of Slalom! [the magazine] or eluded to it being the communities or anything of that sort even after it was written because of this site, it is back in print! For me to argue the ownership of Slalom! is ridiculous. I think it is relevant to consider Slalom! in the same light? nah, that's Jani's thing, forget that I mentioned it.
I am so excited to see what Jack has in store for all of us. I hope we are all contributing to the sport's "steady state" instead of it's cyclical history.
![:D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
My apologies to you Michael Stride (Chris Linford et al) for loosing my way. I made a big mistake by forgetting where I came from. I'm not talking about Hans making the WRS, I believe that this could be a good thing, but of taking the liscense to endorse something that I had absolutely no business in doing. I was corrupt (sic) and supported something that I did not investigate fully or understand. I hope you see this as sincere. I am big on honor and most importantly actions speaking for who we are.
I made a mistake, my sincere apologies.
Speaking of actions.
It's interesting to note that there is such a strong interest by Jani and Hans in exploring ownership publicly when in essence, that was previously discussed and settled in private as it should have been. I never once questioned the ownership of Slalom! [the magazine] or eluded to it being the communities or anything of that sort even after it was written because of this site, it is back in print! For me to argue the ownership of Slalom! is ridiculous. I think it is relevant to consider Slalom! in the same light? nah, that's Jani's thing, forget that I mentioned it.
I am so excited to see what Jack has in store for all of us. I hope we are all contributing to the sport's "steady state" instead of it's cyclical history.
-
- ISSA President 2011-2024
- Posts: 4656
- Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Sweden, lives in France
- Contact:
Adam,
OK, you win. You're the master of blah-blah.
Not one single time did we discuss in private ownership by anyone else than yourself. Well, yes we did because you tried to force, me Corky or John to PAY to get you of out here. Why would we? You were sick and tired of running this site and we tried to encourage to hang on.
All of a sudden you've gone mad and blame me and Corky. I haven't really understood why yet.
If you wanted me out of here, you just had to ask. I was helping you run this site, if you didn't want me to you just had to say so.
Michael,
Next time I organize a race, I suggest you don't come. I've heard enough of stupidities from you.
Jack,
Sorry, but it looks like my days on this site are numbered. Better look for help from somebody else. I'll better spend my energy on something else, ideally outside of skateboarding it appears. I've accepted a lot of shit from people like Arab, who don't know me, and withstood, but I don't accept all the shit that Adam is spewing out right now. He must have gone mad. His name was not mentioned in the magazine and now I'm an idiot. I just don't get it.
I'm glad we're taking this discussion now. Apparently it's a sign I shouldn't waste my time anymore.
/Jani
OK, you win. You're the master of blah-blah.
Not one single time did we discuss in private ownership by anyone else than yourself. Well, yes we did because you tried to force, me Corky or John to PAY to get you of out here. Why would we? You were sick and tired of running this site and we tried to encourage to hang on.
All of a sudden you've gone mad and blame me and Corky. I haven't really understood why yet.
If you wanted me out of here, you just had to ask. I was helping you run this site, if you didn't want me to you just had to say so.
Michael,
Next time I organize a race, I suggest you don't come. I've heard enough of stupidities from you.
Jack,
Sorry, but it looks like my days on this site are numbered. Better look for help from somebody else. I'll better spend my energy on something else, ideally outside of skateboarding it appears. I've accepted a lot of shit from people like Arab, who don't know me, and withstood, but I don't accept all the shit that Adam is spewing out right now. He must have gone mad. His name was not mentioned in the magazine and now I'm an idiot. I just don't get it.
I'm glad we're taking this discussion now. Apparently it's a sign I shouldn't waste my time anymore.
/Jani
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- Corky - World Ranking Master Mind
- Posts: 1982
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Stockholm, Sweden
- Contact:
What a load of crap Michael. What are you talking about? ISSA stopped functioning 1995 with the collapse of slalom skateboarding. Get yourself a new scapegoat. At least until a new ISSA is restarted. I will not go further into responding to this since this is not the topic.
Why I react to this change in ownership has nothing to do with Jack Smith or Adam Trahan not doing good things for slalom in the past, now or in the future. For me it’s just a single action that I think went against all that this site stood for. I think it was wrong to demand anything for transfer it over to someone else. I think it was wrong to do so behind the scene. I think it was wrong to accept such an offer. And I think all this because I bought into the vision Adam promoted that was very much the same as mine. The creation of this site was logical and no surprise. It was needed. A place for international slalom connections and information alongside all local sites and forums used in different parts of the world. Adam started it and I and many others jumped on the wagon. It has taken a lot of Adams energy steering this ship. He did a good job but it finally got him on his knees. But he is not the only one putting down time and energy for this site. Many of us have done the same in different doses and especially Jani. We had discussions already a year ago about changing the Main Editor of the site. It was maybe the first obvious sign of wanting more help from Adam. But all of us maybe didn’t realize the importance of this and took the easy way out. I.e. “You’re doing a good job Adam! Continue!”. We thought we where nice to him but actually just did let him continue the way to breakdown. Now it had gone so far that Adam did not only want to quit the Main Editor role but also leave his site behind. Jani, John and myself thought that it wasn’t necessary to change the ownership of the site. If Adam were no longer Main editor he would not have any work to do anyway. But Adam insisted. I never bought into the story that it was all because he wasn’t named in the latest Slalom! For me it was just that last drop that got the blame for all the hard work since way back. He knew very well that he would have his story told in “Slalom!” because I had promised him just that. And it still stands Adam. The only reason for the transfer that I could see was that he wanted his kite as a farewell present. Once again I didn’t see Adam stepping down from the job as Main editor as a farewell. He was just once again joining the group of normal site users with no obligations. He could come and go as he wanted. He did not have to check the site several times a day. I found it hard to swallow that he wanted a kite for stepping down. I didn’t think it was the right thing to do. I though it was against the very ethics that Adam himself had built this site upon. All for the good of slalom. Adam asked me not to send him any more e-mails. I was surprised but did not insist and agreed to keep the e-mail conversation private. Seems that it was only meant for me and not him. Now he has even put it all out in this topic. Not really needed in my view. I had done everything to keep the reason of the site transfer away and only talking about how we should handle this now when it had happened. I guess it means I can show all my e-mails as well. Anyways, no more e-mails to Adam. It came to a standstill until John actually promised him his kite. Then there was nothing heard until he suddenly presented the transfer of slalomskateboarder.com to Jack for x dollars. This is my overview story.
Now I don’t want this to be repeated. We who cares about this site should not just crack a beer and continue to skate. We should try to come up with a solution so that this does not happen again. I want this site to continue on the path that Adam drew up. Volunteer, neutral, non-commercial, driven by the very users of the site. The ultimate solution is maybe that this site should not be in the hands of a single person. Easier said than done. But let us first see if this is what we all want.
Let's make this site a common ground for us all to stand for. Let us try to stop the breakdown of more persons wanting to work for the international slalom scene. We can't afford loosing more people like Adam Trahan. Not to mention Jani if he too would throw in the towel.
Why I react to this change in ownership has nothing to do with Jack Smith or Adam Trahan not doing good things for slalom in the past, now or in the future. For me it’s just a single action that I think went against all that this site stood for. I think it was wrong to demand anything for transfer it over to someone else. I think it was wrong to do so behind the scene. I think it was wrong to accept such an offer. And I think all this because I bought into the vision Adam promoted that was very much the same as mine. The creation of this site was logical and no surprise. It was needed. A place for international slalom connections and information alongside all local sites and forums used in different parts of the world. Adam started it and I and many others jumped on the wagon. It has taken a lot of Adams energy steering this ship. He did a good job but it finally got him on his knees. But he is not the only one putting down time and energy for this site. Many of us have done the same in different doses and especially Jani. We had discussions already a year ago about changing the Main Editor of the site. It was maybe the first obvious sign of wanting more help from Adam. But all of us maybe didn’t realize the importance of this and took the easy way out. I.e. “You’re doing a good job Adam! Continue!”. We thought we where nice to him but actually just did let him continue the way to breakdown. Now it had gone so far that Adam did not only want to quit the Main Editor role but also leave his site behind. Jani, John and myself thought that it wasn’t necessary to change the ownership of the site. If Adam were no longer Main editor he would not have any work to do anyway. But Adam insisted. I never bought into the story that it was all because he wasn’t named in the latest Slalom! For me it was just that last drop that got the blame for all the hard work since way back. He knew very well that he would have his story told in “Slalom!” because I had promised him just that. And it still stands Adam. The only reason for the transfer that I could see was that he wanted his kite as a farewell present. Once again I didn’t see Adam stepping down from the job as Main editor as a farewell. He was just once again joining the group of normal site users with no obligations. He could come and go as he wanted. He did not have to check the site several times a day. I found it hard to swallow that he wanted a kite for stepping down. I didn’t think it was the right thing to do. I though it was against the very ethics that Adam himself had built this site upon. All for the good of slalom. Adam asked me not to send him any more e-mails. I was surprised but did not insist and agreed to keep the e-mail conversation private. Seems that it was only meant for me and not him. Now he has even put it all out in this topic. Not really needed in my view. I had done everything to keep the reason of the site transfer away and only talking about how we should handle this now when it had happened. I guess it means I can show all my e-mails as well. Anyways, no more e-mails to Adam. It came to a standstill until John actually promised him his kite. Then there was nothing heard until he suddenly presented the transfer of slalomskateboarder.com to Jack for x dollars. This is my overview story.
Now I don’t want this to be repeated. We who cares about this site should not just crack a beer and continue to skate. We should try to come up with a solution so that this does not happen again. I want this site to continue on the path that Adam drew up. Volunteer, neutral, non-commercial, driven by the very users of the site. The ultimate solution is maybe that this site should not be in the hands of a single person. Easier said than done. But let us first see if this is what we all want.
Let's make this site a common ground for us all to stand for. Let us try to stop the breakdown of more persons wanting to work for the international slalom scene. We can't afford loosing more people like Adam Trahan. Not to mention Jani if he too would throw in the towel.
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- Phoenix, AZ, USA
- Posts: 795
- Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2002 2:00 am
-
- Team Roe Racing
- Posts: 1207
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: USA
slalom is alive and well
ha ha ha ha haha such passionate slalomers! Lighten up you loonies...no one is going to pull the plug.
Like a bunch of happy dogs playing with a single bone! Sure...they growl, but they really don't want to destroy the bone...then who would have any fun?
I do feel lucky to slalom on the almost wave free East Coast.
Anyhow, I did try and get a kite for Adam- but not as quickly as Adam would have liked. Personally I think it is fair for Adam to recoup the costs of the first years, and also he spent a lot of time on this site.
My thoughts we kind of funny. I'm not an administrator , more of an envangelist- nor am I one to really constantly monitor all the time. I had a better guy for the job.
I was going to ultimately turn over ownership to Mr. Raymond Serechts - and though never a skateboard slalom racer, he has had some limited experience in auto racing and youth programs.. I thought as an outsider everyone might treat him differently, and being extremely level headed (far more so than me) I thought he would do a superb job of running this site.
Since Raymond is not a slalomer and is too old (I think over 60) to consider starting, he wouldn't be opinionated as he has no position to defend.
Raymond works to resolve international disputes in for world peace organizations, he travels extensively- so much in fact that he almost has no geographical homebase and lives much of his life in hotels (I assume internet enabled). Slalomskateboarder.com would become his traveling "pet". He likes racing AND, like The Chapmans, and The Woodwards and The Gordons he comes from a family that likes racing, and would support this endeavor. Besides "Everyone loves Raymond".
Raymond is a noble guy, who always tries to do what is right. Compared to his involvement in Formula 1 racing in the 1960's slalom skateboarding is certainly much lighter fare with much less serious politics. I did a google search on him, but couldn't get into some closed site, Some secure https site I suppose. He did a lot of racing research at Heidelberg University in Europe. He has raced in the UK, USA, Japan, Germany, Australia, and likes it there as well as a lot of other places. Serechts has been reading this site, translating it for his sons who don't read English very well yet, they are enthusiasts but have yet to compete, they are still too young to drive and so skateboard instead. Raymond has nothing to gain from SS.com
Strange idea huh?
Never came to pass anyhow.
Like a bunch of happy dogs playing with a single bone! Sure...they growl, but they really don't want to destroy the bone...then who would have any fun?
I do feel lucky to slalom on the almost wave free East Coast.
Anyhow, I did try and get a kite for Adam- but not as quickly as Adam would have liked. Personally I think it is fair for Adam to recoup the costs of the first years, and also he spent a lot of time on this site.
My thoughts we kind of funny. I'm not an administrator , more of an envangelist- nor am I one to really constantly monitor all the time. I had a better guy for the job.
I was going to ultimately turn over ownership to Mr. Raymond Serechts - and though never a skateboard slalom racer, he has had some limited experience in auto racing and youth programs.. I thought as an outsider everyone might treat him differently, and being extremely level headed (far more so than me) I thought he would do a superb job of running this site.
Since Raymond is not a slalomer and is too old (I think over 60) to consider starting, he wouldn't be opinionated as he has no position to defend.
Raymond works to resolve international disputes in for world peace organizations, he travels extensively- so much in fact that he almost has no geographical homebase and lives much of his life in hotels (I assume internet enabled). Slalomskateboarder.com would become his traveling "pet". He likes racing AND, like The Chapmans, and The Woodwards and The Gordons he comes from a family that likes racing, and would support this endeavor. Besides "Everyone loves Raymond".
Raymond is a noble guy, who always tries to do what is right. Compared to his involvement in Formula 1 racing in the 1960's slalom skateboarding is certainly much lighter fare with much less serious politics. I did a google search on him, but couldn't get into some closed site, Some secure https site I suppose. He did a lot of racing research at Heidelberg University in Europe. He has raced in the UK, USA, Japan, Germany, Australia, and likes it there as well as a lot of other places. Serechts has been reading this site, translating it for his sons who don't read English very well yet, they are enthusiasts but have yet to compete, they are still too young to drive and so skateboard instead. Raymond has nothing to gain from SS.com
Strange idea huh?
Never came to pass anyhow.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour
john gilmour
Knock Knock..Is anyone home??
Geez I pop in for the first time in ages(been working toooo much) and I'm greeted w/the news of Adam selling out to Jack ..Followed by a barage of stupidity!!
Welp, off to work I go..again!
Jack,
Welcome,I'm sure this site will continue on splashingly with you at the helm!!
Geez I pop in for the first time in ages(been working toooo much) and I'm greeted w/the news of Adam selling out to Jack ..Followed by a barage of stupidity!!
Welp, off to work I go..again!
Jack,
Welcome,I'm sure this site will continue on splashingly with you at the helm!!
ENJOY!! (while you can)
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- Gecko Decks
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Will the REAL Martin Drayton please stand up?
Just for the record, I would be much happier if the moderator could remove my name/photo from Michael's post please. I do not want anyone thinking that I am connected with those angry postings-not my style.
HIS VIEWS ARE NOT MINE, FURTHERMORE MY VIEWS ARE MY OWN SO PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME I AGREE WITH ANY OF THE COMMENTS MADE!
Thanks, I will try to get him to log me out first in future.
Martin.
Moderators note: Sorry Martin putting the note in the post is the best I can do. I don't have the phpBB knowledge to change the name and poster picture.--G.S.
HIS VIEWS ARE NOT MINE, FURTHERMORE MY VIEWS ARE MY OWN SO PLEASE DO NOT ASSUME I AGREE WITH ANY OF THE COMMENTS MADE!
Thanks, I will try to get him to log me out first in future.
Martin.
Moderators note: Sorry Martin putting the note in the post is the best I can do. I don't have the phpBB knowledge to change the name and poster picture.--G.S.
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