Euro comps 2003 (schedule and US participation)

European Races & Results (for Major, Main and Prime level races)

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Chris Linford
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Euro comps 2003 (schedule and US participation)

Post by Chris Linford » Tue Sep 03, 2002 2:07 pm

So 2002 session is drawing to a close. What shall we plan for 2003. How about a proper euro series, UK (Brands or Palace), France (Trocaderro or Les2Alps), Germany (where) and Italy (where).

We should start planning now.

Chris

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Tue Sep 03, 2002 8:39 pm

I am thinking about the possibilities of organizing an event at the Trocadero for next year. I think it would have to be in the autumn in order to build up the appropriate interest in France and some of the other countries in Europe.

Unless we could arrange dual UK/France - one week between races, I guess it would be better to have a UK race earlier in the year. You are ahead of France in terms of tight slalom. There are a few longboard slalom events in France, but I'm not at all updated about those. Long-time slalomer Dieter Fleischer should know all about them. I will invite him here to let us know more about them.

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Post by John Gilmour » Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:06 pm

Jani- of course you can count on me to attend possibly ALL of the races you organize let me know if I can be of any help. Looks like we finally got some USA momentum going in terms of racers, racing products, and new growth of entrants.

A back to back race series wold be nice. How is the surface at Trocadero looking after all these years (1995 was the last time I skated the surface)? It certainly is the world's most scenic urban slalom vista.

Your last race series in France was the most action packed slalom series with so many events in so few days. The after party at your house was great. Please let people know what they can do to help lighten your load for anything you might be planning. The events in the USA have shown no lack of volunteers.

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Post by Joachim Leonhardt » Thu Oct 03, 2002 1:16 am

Chris you are right. If we start now, we have a chance to have a complete contest list for 2003.
I am thinking about competitions in Germany. So does Chris Eggers, too.

I have found some places which could be "race" compatible
One flat area with superb asphalt (you can ride a real hard wheel without any problem), about 250m long (maybe a 100 cone course, straight and / or offset) in the Rhine-Ruhr-area (Duisburg). No cars at the weekend.

There is another spot, a "light" downhill (about 200m + S-curve + 120m flat) course (Essen, Ruhr-area). The road has a dead end (for cars), but for bicycles and pedestrian it is still open in both directions. A nice location nearby a park.

Duisburg and Essen have a very good airport and train connection. Nearest airport is Düsseldorf, second nearest airport is Cologne, a little more south.

There is some work with the city official, but to my mind these "problems" can be solved.

Are there any racers in Germany ? Yes. As far as I know, John Gilmour did post a "world"-count. Some weeks ago I have sent him an e-mail with my interim "German"-count. Now, I have found some more slalomskateboarder in Cologne: about 5 men and 3 women! ... perhaps two dozens in Germany.

To my mind it would be helpful to have a list of all slalomskateboarders grouped by countries and cities who are interested in races / contests or "private" meetings. There maybe a list in the forum, where everybody -member or not- can be add his name and location. A list of spots, grouped by country and city, street and location type (flat, light downhill, strong downhill, ...) would be helpful, too.
These lists can be structured alphabetical:
Austria, France, Germany, Italy, Netherlands, Poland, Russia, UK, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland and ... . No complete list, but only a starting. The personal and spot information maybe added my name-fields and / or multi-check boxes.

I am open to every suggestion and thanks to all the readers.

Joachim (alias Joe)

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Post by Chris Eggers » Fri Oct 04, 2002 9:46 am

Hey Joe,

a list would be a real good start!
As we are all a little older and have professions and families and responsiblities it may be hard to get all of us together at one spot at a certain time, but we should try!
I will try to talk to as many Euros as possible while I am in Morro next week and I will examine and talk to the FCR guys how they do their races. I think we should try and meet some time during the winter!

chris

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Post by Joachim Leonhardt » Fri Oct 04, 2002 1:56 pm

Hey Chris,

a very good idea! I am sure we can manage it.
And good luck at the Worlds.

Joe

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Post by John Gilmour » Tue Oct 08, 2002 5:41 am

Are there any well established slalom spots with high foot/tourist traffic in Germany like the Trocadero in Paris? I think an effort should be made to host any comps in conjunction with another event that has possible sport crossover....like Bicycle racing or snowboarding.

We had many events in the USA this year- but few had a spectator base which introduced many new people to our sport- most spectators werethe friends and wives of the participants. I hope that the events in Europe would be in front of an interested crowd.

Being showcased next to motocross jumping might be a bad choice...but certainly next to bicycle and road racing we seem more interesting and the gear seems affordable.

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Post by Joachim Leonhardt » Tue Oct 08, 2002 8:02 pm

Actually slalom is a little bit "underground" in Germany.
If you go to a skate shop and ask for equipment - you here this is not skateboarding you are a longboarder..
There are some slalomskaters, some like the (flat) tight way and others prefer downhill slalom and banks. Some like all slalom disciplines, as I do.

Good spots are not easy to find, but there are good spots for skating, these are mostly not so good for advertising and PR-events.

You have a good idea to combine a slalom event with other popular sports.
Another thing is to have an event at a well well known place with many visitors, e.g. Cologne cathedral place. In the 70's we were there and now (I was there some weeks ago) you can find inliners, unicycles and freestyle cyclists.

It would be helpful to have designated and well known sponsors, too. Some of them should be famous since skatbaording was very big in Euro (mid-late 70's) and associated with a positive image transport of (slalom) skatebaording.

In order to have a good start, we have to think about all this.

Another point is the possibility to combine Euro events in order to have a "FER" (Fat Euro Racing) team, like your FCR-team.
Hoping that some of the others Euros feel invited to join such a Team.

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Post by Chris Eggers » Wed Oct 09, 2002 5:59 am

I will suggest FER to the others on Thursday, great idea Joe! Greeetings from LA, chris

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Post by Joachim Leonhardt » Thu Oct 10, 2002 5:18 pm

To my mind SER Slalom Euro Racing is pointing out the main thing - Slalom Racing.
Joe

<a href="mailto:info@SlalomEuroRacing.com"><img src="http://www.slalomeuroracing.com/images/SERtxtlogo.jpg" width="458" height="41" alt="SER SlalomEuroRacing"></a>

<font size=-1>[ Don't worry Joe, I didn't change anything. I just verified that I could. /Jani ]</font>


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Jani Soderhall on 2003-02-18 13:04 ]</font>

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Post by Joachim Leonhardt » Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:55 pm

Who is coming to Kreuzlingen (Switzerland) 02./03. november 2002 ?

Maybe there is time and space to meet and talk about the issue Chris Linford opened with:

<small>"So 2002 session is drawing to a close. What shall we plan for 2003. How about a proper euro series, UK (Brands or Palace), France (Trocaderro or Les2Alps), Germany (where) and Italy (where). <b><i>We should start planning now.</i></b>"</small>

Looking forward to see all of you.

Joe


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Joachim Leonhardt on 2002-10-26 12:56 ]</font>

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Post by Joachim Leonhardt » Thu Nov 28, 2002 3:28 pm

now our website is online (version 0.75).

hoping to promote the main things slalom and racing in europe.

you are welcome to be a part of it.

<a href="http://www.SlalomEuroRacing.com"><img src="http://www.slalomeuroracing.com/media/S ... ntlogo.jpg" width="435" height="48" alt="SER SlalomEuroRacing"></a>

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:48 pm

Joachim,

What is the "SlalomEuroRacing" site adding to what we already have on this site? Isn't it better to put all our efforts into making this site and forum roll.

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Post by Joachim Leonhardt » Sun Dec 01, 2002 12:19 pm

Hans,

Yes, we already have http://www.ncdsa.com (as a general skate-forum) and http://www.SlalomSkateboarder.com. We are linked to them, too.

You are completely right, we do not need further forums.

SER - SlalomEuroRacing isn't a forum, it is a the site of our SlalomEuroRacing Team.
We are on the way to promote SlalomSkatebording in Europe.
Therefor it is necessary to have events, racings and a good PublicRelation work and good sponsors, too.
Therefor we have SER - SlalomEuroRacing - hoping that all things were done fast and good. But it is a piece of hard work to organise all needed things. Slalom is my hobby - not my profession. :wink:

It would be helpful, if http://www.SlalomSkateboarder.com and http://www.ncdsa.com would organise Slalomraces in Europe and if we could get some support from the US racing experienced.

Jani Söderhäll is a member of our Team. He is a very engaged person, too.
I hope that my short explanation is helping to understand what it is all about.

You are welcome to help us to get the things done in Europe.

Joachim SER - SlalomEuroRacing

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Post by Etienne de Bary » Tue Jan 14, 2003 6:58 am

to John Gilmour :
the ground in Trocadero is as slick as baby skin, very fast and sticky as long as it is dry ; sometimes the wind brings wet from the fountains at the bottom, but if you go that far down you are too fast anyway, aren't you ?
there is some cracks on the left track, only the right one is in use for skating (longskating every tuesday night)

to Hans Koraeus & Joachim Leonhardt :
http://www.riderz.net a forum particularly oriented on making longboard dates and events in France, has a very active slalom section too, very useful, warm and friendly (in the typical rooster way of course)

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Post by Joachim Leonhardt » Sun Jan 26, 2003 12:33 pm

Thank you for this information.

I have looked at it, but ...

... very sorry, only have had latin at school...

Please keep me informed about the race events in France.

Thank you !

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Post by Paul Price » Mon Jun 02, 2003 7:42 pm

The FCR worlds are on the 26 September.

When is the European competition in antibes nice in September?

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:31 pm

Jack Smith wrote to me yesterday saying that the World Championships will be held on September 26-28 (so ignore the incorrect information on http://www.FcrSeries.com).



The European Championships will be September 20-21, confirmed by Pierre Samray two days ago.

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Jun 04, 2003 12:06 pm

My post above was updated today with the latest information on both the European Championships and the World Championships.

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Jul 22, 2003 6:44 pm

So the Euros is only open to Euros...
I will not go if that is the case.
Slalom should be inclusive, not exclusive.
Tell me it aint so.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jul 22, 2003 7:33 pm

Micheal I see your point given how things are organised now...but in the grand scheme of things (in a structured
perfect" slalom world) regional comps should be exclusive to said region. A German championships should be just that. A German "Open" would be open to anyone, thus the "open" erm.

These regional comps would determine say the top 3 german (or country riders) which in turn should go represent their country in international "World cup" level comps.


So you would hav country championships that are to determine the best in the country. You would have open races which are open to anyone and world cup events open to the winners of respective country comps.....

Any other organized racing sport has various levels like this.

HOWEVER....

What is cool about the way the slalom world is now is that it isn't at that level, yet. You can go to a comp and race the top guys....that is sorta cool.

but in order for our sport to be valid on a global/organised level it needs structure. Right now there isn't enough interest of people to need it...but I would like to see it go to that level.

If you are competeing on a "world cup" level it means something. Right now it is just an abstract term that any organizer can use at will.

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:09 pm

I do see your point Chris, but as yet the de-facto "Worlds" has no entry requirement from nations, ie top three only.
Lets compare Slalom to say, Tennis or Golf (last time for that I hope!) and what we have are "open" champs.
Something I have never really understood in all sports is why being the national best is so important, as being the best in say, Monaco or Luxembourg isnt likely to be the same as being the best American, in terms of shere numbers. So if we had entry requirements for the "Euros" all we can get is the best amongst other Euros...where is the prestige or kudos in that?

Are we really at a stage in Slalom where we can afford to exclude racers...what if you come from South Africa? You'd be excluded from many races. I still wont support an exclusive comp. Not for at least a couple of years i reckon.

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:16 pm

Micheal...where are the "de facto" worlds right now?

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:17 pm

FCR

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:28 pm

Surely Europeans don't see Morro Bay as a true "world championships"..hell I know many americans who don't.

that is sorta my point in the above rambling post. The term "World Championships" right npow means absolutely nothing. Having regional/country championships feed into a true world championship would be good. In that sense these regional comps should be for said region only.

At this point I could put on a race at my pracice spot in front of my apartment building....post a date and a time for a "race" have only me show up and I could call it the "World championships"....and make myself the all supreme wolrd champion. See how the term means little right now, there is no levels feeding into it the justify it.

If someone posted a US championships tomorrow...would you expect to come? Or how about a California championships...again would you expect to come? If you posed a "British championship: I wouldn't expect to come.

but if we all met in paris for the "European open" then that would be lovely.

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Post by Michael Stride » Tue Jul 22, 2003 8:38 pm

If you held an American championship i'd whine and whine an whine and shame you into defeat. Or marry your sister, if you have one. I'd rather keep things "open" and the solution is to have "open" races with bragging rights for the highest host nation rider. Trouble is if a local contender is beaten by a johhny foriegner then the arguments start.

At least the FCR Worlds doesnt have qualifying this year, alongside free entries to points leaders in the series.

I can promise you Chris, if you come to a British champs you will be made welcome. And if you won I'd be happy for you.

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:07 pm

Micheal...I can honestly say that you will most likely see me in england for a race next summer...brand's hatch is the one I'd love to go to....there is no better place on the planet to my wife than england, she LOVES england and everything english so SHE wants to go more than I.

paris is another one and hopefull there will be something in northern italy!

Europe is much cooler than going to califnornia anyday. My wife agrees.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:48 pm

This EU championship is a bit on the downhill/speedboarding side while MB is a bit on the slalomcross side. See you in Paris next year. Keep the slalom side up!

<center>Image</center>

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Post by Michael Stride » Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:41 am

Vlad, I'd agree with you on the big slalom deal In France, and a similar widening of cone distance happened at the recent Hot Heels comp in Austria.
Now what the deal with Morro? I see from their site fcrseries.com that official FCR races can have a specialty event that suits the location, are you saying Morro will have slalomcross?

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Post by Vlad Popov » Wed Jul 23, 2003 1:06 am

Michael,
click on the icon to see what is going where and when.

<center>
<a href="http://www.ncdsa.com/contest_registrati ... testID=100" TARGET="_blank"><IMG SRC="http://images3.fotki.com/v30/photos/5/5 ... ath-vi.gif" BORDER=0 ALT="All I’m saying is see you in Paris next year"></a>
</center>

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Post by Michael Stride » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:29 am

That looks fun. I wonder how tight tight will be...
And you get to qualify in each event, so thats a few runs then.
Slalomcross isnt my scene but i'll give it a bash.

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Post by Chris Eggers » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:07 am

Boardercross http://www.madcow.ch this weekend. Come over Michael, I need my monthly beating you........

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Jul 23, 2003 12:09 pm

If certain competitions are regional, it makes the open ones more attractive, doesn't it? I think it's good to have a few really important events in a year, events which most people would like to attend, rather than try to make everybody come to every event.

National, European and World titles are important in everybody's minds I think. There's a better value in saying "I'm the European champion" then "I won against the best in Europe".

That European and World Championships are open to participants regardless of level is a great thing. Let's try to keep it like that. If there are too many people signing up, we'll just have to figure out a different qualification system, or add another day. Let's dream of having to encounter this problem soon!

The European Championships have a history of being regional like most national championships. Rare are those that have either invited or attracted foreign participants.

The ideal thing for next year is to have a kind of World Cup series with 5 events or so spread out over the USA and Europe, and maybe even Japan. These would be the top ranked races to go to. But they would need to be top level in terms of organisation and so on, so maybe 2004 is too early to make this happen. Maybe it'll be only 2005.

In the mean time I hope FCR continues their series. That other American races are also happening and gaining credibility and attention, and that the Europeans get together and plan for one great event in each country, maybe call it European Series (and let it be open to all participants).

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Post by Michael Stride » Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:37 pm

Jani, I just dont get it.

Are you saying that 5 years ago, when very few Americans were skating slalom in Europe from the US, Gilmore would have been excluded from entering?

What are the Criteria for "European" do you take the EU countries, or the European Area, why not include Israel and Russia like in the Eurovison song contest. Its a complete joke.

Unless some one, or some organisation has actually sat down and debated these matters then I just dont get this exclusion of non Euros at all.

As its stands we have a competition where non Euros arnt welcome, now tell me, how does that help slalom???

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:49 pm

Michael,

Europe for me is a geographical location, not a political or administrational, so yes Russians are welcome, because they are part of Europe. However Israel is not, so no Israeli slalomers this time.

For a Swedish Championships it is completely normal for me to have only Swedes. It shouldn't surprise many.

However I understand your concern for the sport, but the way I look at it people can only afford to travel to a certain number of events per year, so why not concentrate on those that are truly international? It'll make those event even better.

OK, you're right it is a bit weird to prohibit anyone who wants to compete, but for official titles, such as European Champion, I still agree with Pierre that the best European could only be a European.

Let's hope that this will not discourage any of the top US riders from coming to Europe at another occasion, and let's hope that many more of the newbees to slalom in Europe would like to enter and enjoy the thrills of competing.

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Post by Brady Mitchell » Wed Jul 23, 2003 4:40 pm

Jani,
Here is a quote from Sam G over on ncdsa...

"In cycling, National Championships for most (if not all) countries are open championships. That means to say say that a race can be won by an alien, but the first over the line of the holding nation becomes its national champion. By organising an event in such a way competition is increased and the championship title is then worthy of competition on a global playing field."

And I agree with him.

Maybe what`s not been made clear is WHY exclude non-euros? Is it to give your race more credibilty against the FCR`s World race? Is it because FCR has not sanctioned your race as an FCR event?

Granted we may share an opinion that FCR needs to relax thier criteria for what can qualify as an FCR event. Even within the states. Currently thier demads are that thier ramps (w/gates) be used and that one or more of thier reps be in attendance (at the race host`s expense).

But still, by banning non-euros, you are not adding credibilty to your race but rather making a joke of it. It just makes no sense in light of what others have stated...

[let non-euros enter and still give the title to the fastest euro. Or maybe better yet, offer two titles, one for fastest euro and one for the fastest overall]

In closing, even though you stated it is a non-political decision, without any rhyme or reason, it does look like so in light of Frances stance on USA`s war on IRAQ and France`s disapproval of it. I also see it meant as a anti US gesture (what other racers would be non-allowed.....who WOULD possibly show up and compete??) but maybe that`s just my veiwpoint.

Is it racing?


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-07-23 10:46 ]</font>

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Post by Michael Stride » Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:30 pm

Jani, it still doesnt wash with me.

How can we possibly restrict entrance to ANY race. I see you entered Eastbourne last year, alongside Dan Gesmer. Had we called it the "Britsh flat championships" you would have been prevented from entering...how lame is that? What if Paris had been for French nationals...

And Brady, I doubt if it is Anti American. If it was I would be doubly shocked.

If this attitude reamians I can see some fine American races being for Americans only, and I wouldnt blame them.

So who exactly is organising this Antibes comp, is it ISSA sanctioned?

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Jul 23, 2003 7:14 pm

Brady,

First of all let me say that politics has absolutely nothing to do with anything I discuss in the skateboard world. Only Americans seems to worry about relationships with the French and the possible impact of the US stance in the Iraqi war. The average French doesn't. They might have a personal opinion, but there is no anger or anything else in general against Americans. They are more than welcome as usual (and we continue to buy a majority of American goods, especially in this sport!). I'm even shocked at your question and the accusations that we'd make decisions withing skateboarding based upon what political decisions are being made in the world. I hope you didn't really believe that.


Secondly, I'm not organizing this competition. I'm just posting my own view. Pierre Samray is the main organizer. He might still be on vacation, so you may have to wait another week or two for his opinions.
I have asked him the question at least twice and he has been very firm in his answers, so I believe it is his view that the European Championships is an event to find out who is the fastest European.


Third, FCR does good things for American racing, but I'm not sure what kind of role they want or have in the rest of the world. In my mind to have a race in Europe FCR sanctioned doesn't mean much and I have the feeling they even gave up the idea themselves soon after announcing it.


Fourth, to help regulate the slalom activity the time is soon ripe to introduce a regulatory, formal or informal, body in order to take certain decisions as to how we run things. Please don't respond to this in this specific thread as it well worth a topic of its own.


Fifth, to answer Michael's question: Pierre has tried to follow the ISSA rules as much as he could when defining this years European Championships, but he has chosen the rules that suits him, and although ISSA logos will certainly be displayed in conjunction with the event it is not an ISSA event as we knew them before.

That Pierre is doing a Super G to encourage this type of racing should certainly encourage some of the Americans as it shows that Europe is not all about tight slalom.


May I turn the question around: In what way would opening up the European Championships to non-Europeans (for example Israelis, Japanese, Venezuelans, South Africans and Americans) actually be better for the development of the sport?

/Jani

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Wed Jul 23, 2003 7:34 pm

The simple answer to your question at the end of your peice is that if a Skater chose to come along to any race they should feel able to enter.
By leaving competitions open to all you encourage skaters to race. Limiting numbers based on where your mother chose to give birth is just a nonsense.
In what way would having non Europeans detract from the race in Antibes?
If you really expect people to care about this race at all then it must be open.
Do the ISSA have any rules on these matters?

Also, who's going to tell the American thats already entered the slalom that he can't becuse of a quirk of fate at birth? Are we going to check the passports to see if any Algerians are sneaking in, or whether Paul Price has renounced his Australian passport...its an utter nonsense and this xenophobia is going to drive skaters away from comps big time.

Wesley Tucker
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Wed Jul 23, 2003 8:46 pm

The answer to this is simple:

Pierre might reconsider his position and open the race to anyone capable to run the cones. (Americans included.)

However, there would be a distinct "European Champion" awarded to a European racer. If a non-European has the fastest time, they would have the satisfaction of knowing they beat the best Europe had to offer. The Trophy, though, would go to a European. No one would be excluded from competing, but only some would qualify to win a prize.

And don't think this is just an anti-American rule. Unless Pierre decides that Claude, Civ and the other Canadians can race but only Americans are considered non-europeans, then I would take it personally. As it is, just leave the politics out of it.

Oh, how would skaters feel about travelling long distances to compete with no chance of winning a prize? Gee, I don't know. Ask the many who do it almost every weekend just for the fun of skating a slalom course.

That is reward in itself.

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:34 pm

Wes, yes.

Makes absolute sense to me.

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Post by Howard Gordon » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:56 am

Michael -

When I first saw your post, I got the impression that for some reason the Euro Championships were excluding Brits, and the politics of that would be disturbing. However, it seems reasonable to me for a regional slalom event should be able define boundaries for participation, as is the case in most other sports, and it doesn't bother me to see a focused event like this.

Of course, Jani is correct in stating that we're approaching the point that creation of an organizing body for racing at the international level should be supported. It is fortunate that the sport is reaching a level where we have enough participants to begin to have these sorts of concerns.

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Post by John Gilmour » Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:33 am

In the past Americans could enter the European championships- but an American for obvious reasons can not be crowned European Champion.

The only place I see conflict perhaps with mixing International Competitiors in national Championships is in Dual Elimination racing. Seeding quandries could occur.

I have traveled to a bunch of slalom competitions and a lot since Nov. 2000. I of course would like to attend all of them...but that really isn't possible.

What I would like to see are a few select World Cup competition come out of this where we could expect large umbers of slalomers with high international participation attending. I think for the time being in our present size 3-5 such larger Interantional competitions is enough. We wouldn't want to see slalomers families getting burnt out- or everyones frequent flyer miles continuously exhausted.

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Post by Brady Mitchell » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:08 am

Jani,

It is only just my veiwpoint. I can`t think of any logical reason to exclude anyone. Michael has clearly stated the obvious on reasons why it doesn`t make sense.

Now had there already been a series where national comps were held, and then maybe a euro title, but still that wouldn`t justify excluding racers.

So yeah, a race held in France, hosted by one from France, whuch is excludes racers based on locality, which mostly affects those from the US (where there are probably more active slalomers than all elsewhere combined) and in this current state of our differentiating politics, reeks of impropriety.

And my feelings may be off basis, but that`s how I percieve it.

********************************************

Let`s take FCR as an example...

First there was Morro Bay world title..

Then some other events...

Then the following year with FCR events ending with FCR`s World title.

And now this year with FCR events and separately the World title.

So now there is going to be a Euro title?

Was anyone excluded from the get go at any FCR event? Where there not any non-americans at any of the FCR events.

It`s not what was intended, but what those in reality feel about it. I can`t think of any good spin on this other than if things changed, to allow any to enter. But then I`m afraid it may be too late. Damage already done.

And I`d love to be proved wrong....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-07-24 01:13 ]</font>

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Post by Chris Eggers » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:43 am

I just got an info from Axel Fischer concerning the German Champs in two weeks. There will be no one restricted from participation in this race, but as the race is set to determine the fastest German racer, there will be two different categories, an international one and a german one.
Axel also stated that he wanted to stage the race and encourage Germans to participate in the first place. You must understand that the german slalom scene is very small and the level is not too high (yet) and a g´big tournout of international racers (for example Mr. S.) might discourage lesser skilled skaters to race if there was no seperate category.
To take everything into one sentence: the German Championchip is there to find the fastest German, so germans have to race against germans (only) but if anyone wants to come to Cologne, go ahead, it can only get better.

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Post by Michael Stride » Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:18 am

Maybe I'm dumb, but If I entered Koln who would I race if no other foreigners turned up?
I have heard the argument that if good foreign racers turn up it could discourage less good slalomers from entering. I'm afraid that i don't accept this. When Michael Dong and Ritchie carrasco turned up at Brands almost every skater enetered. Maybe its an attitude thing, the Britsih sensibility tends to be that its the taking part that counts, where maybe some other nations feel that its the winning thats important.
So Chris, why would I want to go to Koln and not be able to race you?

The solution is so obvious, all races should be open. And where there is a conflict as in Gilmores example, which i had already noted then perhaps a ranking on times would suffice.

So, we have a situation where on the sign up to Antibes there is an American on the list...and I get an E-mail from Jani suggesting (serriously) that he be told onn Pierres return from holiday that he can't enter.

Its unnesesary, rude, anti competitive, can be percieved as unfriendly and wont help any Euros who go to US races in particular, where any foreign racers are generally made to feel welcome.

As it stands i wont be bothering with the Euros, and I was planning on going, the timeing of the event was actually good for me, but I'd rather go to a race where anyone is welcome.

Last question, again attempted to be -answered by Jani in an e-mail to me: Where exactly are the boundaries of Europe...will Pierre check the passports of competitors and ban any Algerians? Jani tells me Russians can enter, but Isrealis can't.

Unless the Rules of the event are posted clearly at the outset then this race is a sham and entirely pointless. And the ISSA wants to put its name to it....joke!

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Post by Pierre Samray » Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:22 am

Hello all.
I'm just back after a three weeks vacation.
Sorry to make so much trouble with the Euro championship I organize in september.
I try to answer you. No Michael! there is no segregation or bad intention. The race is of course open to everyone, but you have to know I call it "Euro championship" to show that in Europe we have a good scene too. Very good racer may be happy to have an international race in Europe for european people, because unfortunatly most of them can't go to Usa to compete. That why I try to contact people from all european country (a lot of people!) from Italia, Uk, Switzerland, Sweden, Germany, Austria, Letvia, France... and other. Now if american people come, sure there are welcome, if an american win, sure he will be the winner, but he couldn't be the european championship.I would like the european racers to recognize that as there own championship. In the same time we will have the french championship with a separate ranking, so where is the problem?

Gianlucca Ferrero tell me that in 1995 there was more than 30 different countries on the
"world championship". Actualy how many in Morrow bay? maybe 3 or 4 : 40 americans and 10 europeans. It's a pity! I try to have ten countries in Antibes as in Grueningen.

Some people says too that the race is on the speedside, mixing speed discipline and slalom. That right. But you have to know that the newcomers (the youth) are racing on both very well as Martin Siegrist or Raffael Schaffner from switzerland. A lot of Young are coming to slalom after practise speed.
May be it's time for all the fourties year old to think of the future if you don't want to see the slalom dying one time again in few years.
Don't worry: the slaloms in Antibes will be true slaloms except the super GS, which is the way to make downhiller discover cones and enjoy it.
The downhill is not so difficult and some of you will be able to do it in stand-up or buttboard just for fun to enjoy the moment. The others will have a great spectacle on the side of the track or simply go to the beach and visit the French Riviera.
I give soon information about accomodation on the site http://planet-longskate.com

Michael I will be sad if you won't come in Antibes. I think you will miss something nice.

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Post by Chris Eggers » Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:46 am

Michael, you did not get my point this time. If I would be able to race in Cologne (which I 80% cannot) you would be able to race me and be the winner of the race too if you get first place, but you would not be the German Champion because you are english. The German Champion will be the fastest German on the given day. One race, two winners.

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:03 am

Pierre,

Do you have your own board for this race? Because I an NOT sending my Santa Cruz H-Bomb to France for you to borrow! :smile:

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:09 am

Pierre, you are a gentleman. Thankyou.

Chris, my grandfather was German, and Paul Prices mother was!

So Paul could be the German champ???!!!!

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