European Races 2006

European Races & Results (for Major, Main and Prime level races)

Moderators: Jani Soderhall, Robert Thiele

Chris Eggers
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Post by Chris Eggers » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:14 pm

Oh dudes, this is getting out of hand..........

skateboarding is a sport or not, don´t care

look at the athletes in it, hahahaha

Duane Peters, not exactly a role athelete

Big guys: Richie Carrasco, Neil Blender, Ben Schroeder (BIG GUYS), Tony Hawk (remember the old pic at DelMar with the elbow pads as knee pads, where he looked totally sick with sacks under the eyes?)

There are all kinds of skaters

dirty clean fat skinny short long big small male female young old black white yellow green
all have in common to have fun, don´t kill that for us

Do not care, let´s skate and be happy

Ramón Königshausen
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Pro & contra

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:25 pm

Yes, Switzerland deserves a Main status because it's got a very big slalomscene.
But as long as this contest is held in Grüningen, sorry J-rad, it won't become more popular.

Everything what you are confirming and proposing about the contest in Grüningen may be true and is of course a certain advantage when you compare to some other contests.
But Grüningen is still somewhere at the countryside though it's very close to Zürich.

Look at the race track. Would it be challenging without my course setting?

I understand your arguments but some people don't...
Your contest seems to be the same old story in a new dress, it won't change the others minds.

[...]

Call me, Jadranko, if you wanna get a bigger picture about that.

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Jadranko Radovanovic
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Post by Jadranko Radovanovic » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:31 pm

was it challenging when Chris Linford set the course in 2003 ?

Yes it was, ask some rider's who skated the course.

As i say before, i personaly don't care about the status. I haven't race in 2005 and i will not race in 2006. But there are others top Riders who want to have a main status in Switzerland.

Feel free to organise a World Cup race in Switzerland. We have 4 national event's at beautiful location's arround Zurich and one World Cup in Grueningen, even when there is only a basic Status left.

I think it's not about the race track. At every race track the fastest rider will win, even when the cone distance is 20 feet.

Peter Klang
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Post by Peter Klang » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:52 pm

I would like everyone to take a few seconds and read this, think about it and come back with constructive points. This it not a proposal I expect to be embraced as is, it is a format from which we can start to make status setting and World Cup Ranking points more understandable and fair.

• All competitions where 16 of the 32 top ranked racers attend will receive Main status. Regardless of geographic location or date.
• All competitions where 8 of the 32 top ranked racers attend will receive Prime status. Regardless of geographic location or date.
• All competitions where 4 of the 32 top ranked racers attend will receive Basic status. Regardless of geographic location or date.

This way it’s simply up to the promoter to do a great job in promoting and running the competition, if a promoter attracts a lot of racers he/she deserves a high status. If a race by history is great we all come, like Paris, therefore it’s a Main.

• The European and American Championships should be decided by each continents itself, as for the Euros I think it should be in different countrys evry year. The Location should be decided before New year by the commitee.
• The committee has representatives from ISSA and big race organizers, each having one vote.
• The World Championship should be in Americas every other year (2007) and in Europe (2006) every other year, until other regions get to a level of slalom racing where they can organize such event.
• The decision of location should be made in the same fashion as the American Championship and/or the European Championships.

The World Ranking system can be kept as is or apply the same system as Vert and Street skating. We would have to have a multiple for statuses to make it fair. The winner gets 1000 points for second place you will recive 900 points and third 810 and so on, loosing 10 % to every place you fall behind in the results.

The multiple for races can look something like this;
• Major ONLY the World, European and American Championship. 1,2
• Main 1,0
• Prime 0,8
• Basic 0,6

I really want all of you to think about this and come up with ideas and comments.

Your pain in the ass
PK

Detlef Rehbock
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status for 2006 races

Post by Detlef Rehbock » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:20 pm

oh man, it´s so exhausting to read all that stuff. we are talking about races for 2006, not for the look of skaters.
please don´t change the modus of world cup ranking and of the number of main races.

Peter, i agree with you. We need this committee.

The committee has representatives from ISSA and big race organizers, each having one vote.

This committee can discuss about rules and status for races. but let us discuss the season2007
it is to late for 2006 to change the system.

you guys talking about main status for hannover. at the moment it´s not sure that we have a race in 2006 here in hannover. if paris decides to have there race in june, we don´t have the place at the expo. at the moment they probably have there race in may. vinzz wrote, they know it tonight.

if you want to organize a real main race you need time to do a good job. if paris will have there race in may, we organizing a world cup in hannover ( for sure, better than this year)
but.... i don´t need the main status for this race, maybe in 2007

we had a good race this year and we will try our best for 2006. after that a committee can decide, if we get the main status for 2007. prime is o.k. for 2006

peace and keep on skating

Ramón Königshausen
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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:24 pm

Jadranko Radovanovic wrote:was it challenging when Chris Linford set the course in 2003 ?

Yes it was, ask some rider's who skated the course.
I quickly asked myself and answered: Though Grüningen 2004 (when Chris Linford set the course, too) was my second event I participated as a pro I didn't find it that challenging - I became 4th place at my SECOND pro event....

Anyway, everybody may feel different about that (and about everything else at a contest...)

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Stefano Bellingeri
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Race status

Post by Stefano Bellingeri » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:54 pm

I fully agree with Peter Klang.
This is the way the status of the events has to be decided: from the world ranking status of the riders.
I really think that this way has to be followed in order to avoid unpleasent situations among the organizers. Moreover this should boost the participation to the whole season. The only constrain is to be sure that top riders will participate to a lot of events, otherwise common people do not get the possibility to climb the ranking.

Concerning the athletic perspective, please I do not care about big, fat, slim, tall, etc, aspect of the rider: the point is to be fast. If you are not in shape, drunk and fat "probably" you won't be that fast. If you care about being in shape you will have more chances to be fast. The more shaped you are the fastest you will be and spectators will be more interested in watching your PERFORMANCE (and NOT your beauty).

Now, in order to try to be FAST, I gonna train: may be next season I will be faster...otherwise next winter I gonna drink....
Enjoy the evening!
;-)
Stefano

Claude Regnier
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Alfie

Post by Claude Regnier » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:00 pm

Peter, I know I was watching it at the sk8park.

We got cable.

When I get back from north carolina I will buy the Projector and set-up our in park 16' wide bigscreen for live events and premieres.

Okay back to your regular programming.
Many Happy Pumps!

Jadranko Radovanovic
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Post by Jadranko Radovanovic » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:01 pm

I fully agree with PK.

/J-Rad

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Post by Jadranko Radovanovic » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:21 pm

I think you didn't understand my post about the look of the skaters.
The point of the athletic discussion is, if you want to make it professional, you need racer's who are athletic, not in the way the sprinter is. No one will be interessted to see some big guy's on a skateboard.
It wasn't about the look of the skaters or the scene now.
It was about the future.
I was asking what a big race is ? asking what the big Step is in Slalomskateboarding. What Donald is talking about. No one answered. My interpretation was Professional.
If you want to make it (Slalom) Professional, than you need racer's who are athletic (like Luca, Maurus, Maysey, Mitchell, Seyffhart and so on). Not in the way the sprinter is.

Professional = Big Sponsors = you live from Slalom Skateboarding. To do that, you need athletic racers.

It has nothing to do with the topic here, so let it byside.

J-Rad

Vincent Berruchon
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PARIS DATES confirmed

Post by Vincent Berruchon » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:10 pm

Riderz and the CDRS75 (parisian comitee of the french federation) booked the Trocadero slopes from the 25th to the 28th of May 2006.
So we are thinking about a four days event, but we have to work more on the schedule before telling more.
You'll also be happy to know that we're trying to block another street just near the Trocadero to organize a long Giant Slalom (or Super G).
[ www.pavel-skates.com ] [ www.riderz.net ]
"Dont care what the World say - I and I could a never go astray -Well wee gona have Things our Way" - Robert Nesta Marley

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Re: PARIS DATES confirmed

Post by Steve Hinzen » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:42 pm

Vinzzz, this sounds great!

F....k the status of this race! I'll be there!

With Hannover the weekend after a super-week of slalomraces is ahead!

Donald Campbell
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Post by Donald Campbell » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:51 pm

right on
vinzzz is da man
sounds like a power-week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hans Koraeus
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:46 pm

This is a text from www.slalomranking.com concerning statuses...

Some regions with a high level skateboard slalom scene may very well set up 10 competitions with a high level field of skaters. For those in the local region it is not a problem attending them all. But for out of region skaters it is. This is why each region has to filter out those who will have a higher status and extra points to fight about towards the World Ranking. That way out of region skaters can make a better judgement of their travel plans. In some regions going to a lower status competition may very well have just as high a level of field as a higher status competition. It's just that the World Ranking points to earn are lower.

The world regions and the number of fixed statuses for a specific region is likely to be discussed and changed over time depending on the development of the world slalom skateboard scene.


Main or Prime.
The difference is not that big. It's like if you can't get a Main status your competition is worth nothing. This is wrong. Don't forget that the statuses are only for the World Ranking and for trying to build up some sort of world balance. Nothing else. Not to decide how good or bad the event is.

World Ranking statuses
The statuses we discuss are only for the world ranking and it's cause. I have said before that you can't solve everything with the world ranking beacuse it works from a whole other perspective. What is missing is a European Cup or American Cup with their respective ranking. There all events could have the same status and there could be a lot more events included because you only have to consider your own region.

Travel
The current World Ranking system is built to encourage travel. You should be forced to travel out of your region to do well on the world ranking. If not why call it a world ranking. With more statuses on your home ground it will not stimulate travel as well. Even now it's hard because time and money works against it.

How much to demand of the racers
In the end it's a question of how much time and money we should demand of the top skaters. Now for Pros you have to enter minimum 4 events during the season. All others only 3. If the racers are ready for it we could demand more of them. Of course all organizers want all the best racers to come to their event. But we must think about the racers as well. How much should time and money count towards the quality of racers. Even with the current system very good racers from regions with not many high status competitions around are having trouble. But at least they know where to put there money when they do make the travel. In a system where it depends of who is there the unbalance is too strong.

New World Ranking systems
It's extreamly difficult to get a system that tries to balance everything out. I think the current system is doing a good job at that. That's why before changing it you must be aware of the consequenses. There are many changes to the current system that I have wanted to do but didn't do because it affected other things in a bad way.

We now have three years of competition data in the World Ranking database. Anyone who want to make use of it to try and figure out a better system are welcome.

The USA East problem
1. I can stick to the rules and get shit for it.
2. I can break the rules and get shit for it.

I prefer the first option.

The European problem
Our problem here in the Europe region is much more difficult because everybody follows the rules but we still have to filter out a couple of events. Not so much for ourselves but for all those far away and out of region skaters to know the facts before paying lots of cash and time for travel here.

Ramón Königshausen
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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:12 pm

Hans Koraeus wrote: Main or Prime.
Don't forget that the statuses are only for the World Ranking and for trying to build up some sort of world balance. Nothing else.

World Ranking statuses
The statuses we discuss are only for the world ranking and it's cause. I have said before that you can't solve everything with the world ranking beacuse it works from a whole other perspective. What is missing is a European Cup or American Cup with their respective ranking. There all events could have the same status and there could be a lot more events included because you only have to consider your own region.
you spread out a few good points, corky...

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Chris Eggers
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Post by Chris Eggers » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:34 am

Just to correct things:

Grüningen 2002 Chris Linford set a course that was not used in the race. It was decided that it was too challenging for most of the racers because most of them did not make it to the 5th cone.

2003 was set by me
2004 was set by Chris Linford again
2005 was set by Ramon

Detlef Rehbock
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powerweek

Post by Detlef Rehbock » Fri Nov 04, 2005 4:22 pm

hey corky, i am confirm with you. i don´t want to change something at the world ranking system. for hannover it´s o.k. to get the prime status again.

hey all you slalom skaters in the world. be prepared for a powerweek of slalom action in two of the most attrative european nations. which nations? it´s your choice.

france and germany
or germany and switzerland

hey and what´s about grueningen? why don´t you call it the swiss world cup in zürich.
and then you have the race in grüningen? that sounds better for foreign skaters. everybody knows where zürich is.

Chris Eggers
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Post by Chris Eggers » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:03 pm

12 European Races in 2006 and 2005 is not over yet.

How is that!

2006 will be too short...........thats for sure.

Vincent Berruchon
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Post by Vincent Berruchon » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:04 pm

The 1st GOG race, the 27th of november, have been confirmed here for long and nothin in the calendar nor slalomranking events.
Prime status was asked, the race confirmed.. so what's up again? Just forgotten?

If it's a problem of bad annoucement again, perhaps we should think about adding a form for organizer to declare their event. That would be the official place to ask for a status (mail form should be available too).
instead of sending email where you can + annoucement here or here or here..

It would be easier for the one who managed too. The organizer fill the informations and the "manager" validate it if OK.
You ever have the database, just need a few more webpages.
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"Dont care what the World say - I and I could a never go astray -Well wee gona have Things our Way" - Robert Nesta Marley

Chris Eggers
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Post by Chris Eggers » Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:13 pm

Sorry Vinzzzzzzz
so busy with the 2006 calender I forgot about 2005...............

It is in.

Chris

Hans Koraeus
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:51 pm

Vince wrote:The 1st GOG race, the 27th of november, have been confirmed here for long and nothin in the calendar nor slalomranking events.
Prime status was asked, the race confirmed.. so what's up again? Just forgotten?
As for the world ranking the calendars at slalomskateboarder.com and ncdsa.com counts. And e-mails to webmaster@slalomranking.com of course. The only problem with this is the slalomskateboarder calendar because you can't see when they where posted. These posts are deleted.

As for statuses above Basic level (i.e. Prime, Main and Major) they have to be discussed and ok'd in the existing World Ranking forums that exist for each region. For Europe that is here (for 2005). And here (for 2006).

I tried to find the post about the Gog race Vince but didn't manage to find it. Please give us the link to it.

I will add the GOG race to the slalomranking calendar.

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