Let's make it tighter

Cones and Placement

Moderator: Pat Chewning

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:06 pm

On 2003-09-02 15:57, Wesley Tucker wrote:
On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:

When can we start being specialists? When can we start riding the courses WE like and not having to be made to feel guilty about it?
Chris,

I don't know quite how to say this without sound like I'm being snooty or suggesting some people be EXCLUDED from an event. The answer to your question, though, is "we" can start being specialists when we start holding "INVITATIONAL EVENTS." In other words, people come to an event who are invited based on their particular preference for racing.

Again, I know that sounds exclusionary, but I hope you get what I mean in concept. If you and some of the Nor'easters wanted to hold an exclusive TIGHT RACING weekend, you would put out the word that only TIGHT RACERS would enjoy themselves. What's more is I think it would have to be announced in such a way that only people who practiced and enjoyed tight racing would make the trip. Coming to such an event to "find out" if someone "likes" tight racing isn't part of the program.

The same it true with Hybrid racing, Giant slalom or whatever. One of the things I've admired over the past few months is Mike Gorman's JPL races. He has a big hill with a gnarly surface and advertises a big giant slalom on a big hill. Someone who goes to his race knows what's in store. Don't go to Mike's race with little wheels and short boards and then complain afterwards there was nothing there that involved that kind of racing. In other words, a short board and small wheels wasn't invited. If someone insists on coming unprepared, everyone will still be hospitable, but don't gripe later about the course.

Of course, maybe my attitude about being involved in all kinds of events means I win nothing, but at least I might get asked to show up at all the parties and still be competitive! :smile:
Wes...

I don't think we need to go that far, though I have no problem with invitationals, but for other reasons.

I don't see a specialist as being limited at all. I see it more as the excel in a specific event. If you have a race with say a GS and TS event I see the TS specialist excelling in the TS and doing pretty good in GS. i see a specialist as favoring/being better at one event over the other but not to the complete exclusion to the other event(s). In that world the specialist would never race. Part of racing IS showing up on race day, figuring out the course and taking your skillset to the podium and adapting. In fact that is 50% of racing right there.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: chris stepanek on 2003-09-02 16:46 ]</font>

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:07 pm

considering I introduced you to "california mix" vlad you know what I mean......but funny eitherway....

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:08 pm

I forgot something...

If you can't make to to MB for whatever reason, but can make it to DC for "Nice and Tight", do so.

I will put together a parallel and tight special slalom event. RFK racetrack or the Whitehouse roller/inline-slalom ground.


There is $$ to be won. And free beer after the comp. Details - later in the appropriate forum.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:10 pm

On 2003-09-02 16:07, Chris Stepanek wrote:
considering I introduced you to "california mix" vlad you know what I mean......but funny eitherway....

I don't know why (and HOW?!!) you got off the perfect diet and I don't understand what's so funny.


Are you a funny guy or something....

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Post by Andy Bittner » Tue Sep 02, 2003 10:40 pm

TK and Ur13... in my opinion, your recent posts have been right on the mark. Thank you. It's a pleasure to read intelligent, insightful commentary on issues that I believe will be of genuine importance to the longevity of the sport.

..and Noah, you make me laugh outloud.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2003-09-02 16:41 ]</font>

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:13 pm

It’s WesE’s unlimited kindness and appreciation and Wes Tucker’s humanitarian approach to this issue that, in my opinion, will save the tight tight slalom world. But just for a day.

UR, you've read “Who’s da best you’ve ever…?” thread on BoL. So different from what it used to be. Even a year ago. Toddy not kissing CmC’s anymore. Several others changing the favorites. For a reason. Cheap games. Easy to see.

Political maneuvering without any political power is weak. Esp. in the sport that doesn’t exist.

But it’s truly entertaining. For a day.

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Post by Jack Smith » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:17 pm

Wes, I expected more from an articulate person such as yourself. Yes. I gave Miko some grief, but I never used the "f" word.

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Post by Adam Trahan » Tue Sep 02, 2003 11:38 pm

On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.

It ain't going to happen.
Chris, I enjoy your words and I agree with them for the most part but I'm going to do what I can do to get the word out there about skateboard slalom and I'm going to keep an open mind about doing it. Right now, I'm concerned with setting up a reference point that will get us through the next down cycle. I'de like to see us get in the Olympics and have a International governing body for race organization.

Please help me with this dream.
On 2003-09-02 14:34, Wesley Tucker wrote:I said "f#@k you" on purpose.
Fighting fire with fire or water, both work yet only one will burn you.

#1. It's your fucking choice.

#2. It's your choice.

Life is full of choices.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: adam trahan on 2003-09-02 17:56 ]</font>

...er, I forgot.

Thank you all for participating here. I really enjoy reading your stories and opinions. It really makes me feel like I'm reading the old "Slalom" zines back in the day.

Pretty cool thing.

Remember this one thing Chris, I don't know what's going on at http://www.ncdsa.com I can't "see" that site. I would bet that what's his name is back and is at it again.

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:37 am

On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.

It ain't going to happen.
Chris, I don't agree at all. Look around you in this world of ours. There are many "idiotic" sports that are big business. I can't see any reason why not slalom skateboarding also could be there some day. I think it has an huge potential. And I think we have the people with the skills to make it happen. It's just not going to happen all in one step.

I think personally to get it all going big time is to create a World circuit. This is our first important step towards a promicing future. It won't be easy but I think we are ready for it. All sports need something on the top to look up to.

Here are my golden steps to big fame. The first step being the key to it all is high and difficult.

1. World circuit.
2. More coverage in magazines, Web, DVD.
3. More skaters.
4. Big sponsor(s).
5. Coverage on TV.
6. More skaters.
7. More business.
8. Big bucks.
9. Influence
10. Olympics.

So if we do only 1 points/year that will give us hmm... 10 years until we are in the olympics (or simular status) after having started the world tour. So what are we waiting for.

"I have a dream..."

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:06 am

"Inarticulate?" "F word?"

I thought "flogged" was a most lucid choice.

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Post by Glenn S » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:09 am

My gut feeling is that wider public acceptance and participation will come about by our acceptance of slalom on flatter terrain.

And for it to be challenging on flatter terrain it would have to be tight and technical.

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Post by Jack Smith » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:17 am

Wes,

Wow, that was great comeback.

I guess it makes you and Adam feel like seventeen year old, rebel skateboarders when you use profanity on the site.

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:50 am

On 2003-09-02 18:37, Hans Koraeus wrote:
On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.

It ain't going to happen.
Chris, I don't agree at all. Look around you in this world of ours. There are many "idiotic" sports that are big business. I can't see any reason why not slalom skateboarding also could be there some day. I think it has an huge potential. And I think we have the people with the skills to make it happen. It's just not going to happen all in one step.

I think personally to get it all going big time is to create a World circuit. This is our first important step towards a promicing future. It won't be easy but I think we are ready for it. All sports need something on the top to look up to.

Here are my golden steps to big fame. The first step being the key to it all is high and difficult.

1. World circuit.
2. More coverage in magazines, Web, DVD.
3. More skaters.
4. Big sponsor(s).
5. Coverage on TV.
6. More skaters.
7. More business.
8. Big bucks.
9. Influence
10. Olympics.

So if we do only 1 points/year that will give us hmm... 10 years until we are in the olympics (or simular status) after having started the world tour. So what are we waiting for.

"I have a dream..."
Hans...as much as I would love to see your plan work out I have my doubts. I agree we need an organized world tour with ONE sanctioning body. It can (should) be various race promoter organizations (FCR, GRASS, UKSSA, etc) under one sanctioning body (ISSA, etc) with a unified points system, ranking system and local course types (paris = tight/tech, la costa = SGS, england = flat and tight, breckenridge = GS, moscow = flat and tech, NY = super hybrid, switzerland = longboardy slalom ,etc...). This gives the series some local spice in course types and venues without favoring any one speciality. 8-10 stops for the season.

What do we need to make this happen?

1) big money (even middle money) sponsors. Like what Suzuki did for the US Open of snowboarding in the late 1980s....I see ford, honda, coke, snapple, red bull, etc. This will give the tour organizers money to work with overall promotion and local race costs/prize money.

2) prize purses $15,000US+ awarded to top four places (50/30/15/5%)...gives racers reason to come beyond fun. European racers make back their travel costs in US vis-versa for US in europe with some play money left over. This only comes from big money sponsors, entry fees don't help much

3) global points ranking and a true world champion based on most points in the series (like formula 1 or nascar) Points awarded places 1-16 count to world ranking over course of the season. US race points could count for US champion, European for european champion. Rookie of the year (rookie with most points).

4) some slalom superstars that have marketability in a mainstream market. Imagine Gilmour on a wheeties box, Chicken doing Target commercials, Luca pushing vodaphone, vlad doing vodka spots on russian TV, maysey doing sony commercials, Marcus Strobel for Tissot watches, Dylan Gordon is the shaun white of slalom...etc. This also gives the fans a chance to have their favorite rider or team (yes we need real organized teams, they can be as simple as two or three riders....) to chear for. Rivalries heat up...Gilmour the seasoned pro vs. Dylan Gordon the young gun, Maysey the american hope vs. Luca the dominant italian. These riders need to be great racers but also have something that can be marketed to make non-racers/skaters care. We have the riders/personalities, they just need to spotlight.

5) classic courses. permanent courses in certian venues. Paris is the first one that pops into mind. Courses run year in and year out, always the same. This gives younger riders a chance to compare to guys from 10 years ago, etc. It also adds spice to that race. "ladies and gentlemen, it looks like today Vlad Popov has a chance to break the paris course record of 13.2 set by Luca Gianmarco in 1995...qualifing times have been pushing 13.3 with some racers saying they are holding speed in reserve..." How cool would that be?

It is VERY ambitious but could happen with the right connections, who knows. We as slalom skateboarders could have a full on world tour for a fraction of the cost that other global race series have (cars, skis, bikes, etc).

Only after we have this do i think we can think the level of olympics. Look at normal skating, x-games type. They have been growing the x-games for years yet you don't see skateboarding in the olympics, or even on the radar for it. Only in the past 2 years have they really even made the x-games a truely global event.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-02 21:54 ]</font>

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Post by Brady Mitchell » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:41 am

On 2003-09-02 15:20, Chris Stepanek wrote:
Slalom skateboarding will NEVER be big. It will never be a cash cow for the industry and it will NEVER be more than a small minority within the skateboarding world.

It ain't going to happen.

********************************************

I think it CAN be. There is so much going for slalom skateboarding that offers alot for both new participants and attraction to corporate sponsorship.

Everyone that sees or rides one of my slalom boards LUUUUVVVSSS the ride. The roll, the ability to turn, the carbon fiber decks, wild trucks, and smooth fast wheels. As for attracting the hardcore skaters on flippy boards, heck, they just need to see others of thier age doing the same. Maybe some pics in the mags of blood and gore from the spills? BLR belts with silver Iron Crosses across it at the PacSun in the mall?

Kids don`t ride hills these days because thier flippy boards aren`t designed to. But with the lower price, high performance boards now becoming available, who knows?

As far as being pidgeon holed into TS? That I have no problem with as long as other venues are being held, LBS, GS. Cyber Slalom, etc.

As far as UR13`s comments on TS races being held, I was under the assumption that you guys ARE running TS? Is it because most of the CAL contingient is running mostly GS courses? If that`s what they like, then let them ride it. My preferance is fast swervy courses with high body angulation, but maybe because I`m finding limits on this old busted up body. I`ll probably never be a true TS specialist. But it won`t stop me from trying.

If bigger $$ and more events are desired, well maybe we oughta hire a PR specialist (someone outside of the sport. Sorry Vlad) and see what it might take to bring big corporate dollars into the mix.

When I see beach volleyball with tournaments paying off 6 figure prizes, I wonder how and why? When I see checker tournaments with big payouts, I about spaz out, Heck, I just saw a plastic cup stacking tournament on t.v. that payed out more than all the prizes FCR has altogether (no offense Jack, John, Don, you guys have done great so far). Can you imagine? Blue cups against the red cups. "Go RCR" )Red Cup Racing, "We`ll kick yer arse"...BCS (Blue Cup Stackers).

Somewhere there is a missing link. Maybe it`s a now known skater pro that jumps into the mix, or a large corporate sponsor that through`s down silly money (Pepsi? Coke? Budweiser? Nextel? IBM? Sony? and how`s about NIKE?

Let`s make it ALL good!


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 22:48 ]</font>

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Post by Brady Mitchell » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:58 am

But if all you want is free beer, heck, I have a fridge stocked with Wars, Buds, Hanks, and Red Stripes. Got`s 5 differant rums in the freezer. Let`s deep fry some conch fritters, through some crawfish (spiny lobster) on the grill and chill with sum Key Lime pie.

Slalom needs to get friendlier, and that means a course availble for newbies or longboarders, along with the specialized GS or TS.

Also, one other thing, let`s not drag that dead cat through hear again (ISSA) unless it gets a makeover and moves away from Olympics and towards more hardcore skating and big fat daddy corporate sponsors. Race promoters should have the rights to set thier own courses. If it`s bunk, then it won`t last long. If it`s hard core, then it`ll go off da top.

(Sorry Adam T, that`s just what I feel)

Peace out...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 23:08 ]</font>

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:08 am

our market is NOT flipper guys or so called "hardcore" guys. No matter how much black leather, iron crosses, bloddy skulls, etc we use slalom will STILL do nothing for them.

Nor will making slalom all hiphop and ghetto do it either...

Racing, in general, doesn't appeal to those guys.

Our market is cyclists, skiers, runners, sprinters, drag racers, cart nerds....even if tony hawk himself start slaloming I doubt many kids would care.

Sure kids might like the glide of longboards and such but other than cruising around the appeal is limited for the most part.

I've watched kids in the two clinics I have been part of go from scared of trying slalom to full out racing in a matter of an afternoon...but that was with the help of three instructors and some pushing. Out of maybe 50-60 kids in both clinics i would say maybe three or four remember what slalom is....but that is all it takes. one here, two there...etc.

I would say of those 50-60 kids maybe 8 of them had ever stepped on a skateboard of any kind before. Most of the kids into it were either just normal kids more into playstation or kids who played other team sports.

I think the more we as slalom skateboarder distance ourselves from mainstream skateboarding the better off we are. We don't need them and they don't notice us....

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:18 am

On 2003-09-02 22:58, Brady Mitchell wrote:
But if all you want is free beer, heck, I have a fridge stocked with Wars, Buds, Hanks, and Red Stripes. Got`s 5 differant rums in the freezer. Let`s deep fry some conch fritters, through some crawfish (spiny lobster) on the grill and chill with sum Key Lime pie.

Slalom needs to get friendlier, and that means a course availble for newbies or longboarders, along with the specialized GS or TS.

Also, one other thing, let`s not drag that dead cat through hear again (ISSA) unless it gets a makeover and moves away from Olympics and towards more hardcore skating and big fat daddy corporate sponsors. Race promoters should have the rights to set thier own courses. If it`s bunk, then it won`t last long. If it`s hard core, then it`ll go off da top.

(Sorry Adam T, that`s just what I feel)

Peace out...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 23:08 ]</font>
Brady...

IMHO...you couldn't be more wrong. Slalom is ultra friendly right now. Slalom is as inclusive as it can get. The term "getting hardcore" and "friendly" don't go together.

What is the point of adding iron crosses and leather to slalom? None.....

The reason alot of people bring up the ISSA is that it worked, it has a great group of defined core rules that were not just pulled out of nowhere but organized and debated over by many countries with many agendas that all democratically agreed on them....

ISSA worked and is the only modern set of rules that exist that could even come close to an organizing body....do we have to use ISSA? no...but it there has not been anything else OR has anyone stepped up and defined anythign new. ISSA rules exist and they are a good starting point to work with right now. Any other options?

Slalom SERIOUSLy does NOT need this "skate and destroy" crap, hell most of the mainstream skate world has even moved away from that. Only the old guys hang on to it and it is sorta sad.

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Post by Brady Mitchell » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:23 am

And that`s where we disagree Chris. I`ve been skating since before your mom had her first period. I`m not saying you don`t get it because you were born late. Heck, you probably GET IT more than I do.

The point is skating is skating. I`ve never snowboarded and haven`t skied since `78. Slalom is just another type of skateboarding that most that call themselves skaters don`t have a clue about.

I bet if you took 60 kids that skate regularly, and hold a slalom camp with them, a larger percentage would stick with it than with a comp of non-skaters.

And there`s nothing wrong with crossover from snow sports either.

The fact is, a lot of kids drop out of skateboarding because they lose interest in the dull, repetitive, flippy tricks. Teach the high of speed and g-force, and they`ll likely stick with it a lot longer, maybe forever.

Kids these days STILL race thier bikes, they still race thier mopeds, and with the right boards, I`m sure they`ll race thier skateboards. Even if it`s just a mad foot push to the end of the block.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-02 23:26 ]</font>

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Post by William Tway » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:26 am

Just disappointed to read that Vlad and UR13 will not be attending the Worlds. Two fantastic skaters with a good chance of putting the East Coast on the podium. We ain't getting any younger and the sport ain't growing that fast....might as well get it while you can. I hope next years Euro tour is technical and tight. I truly hope to participate there and meet a few new friends. After all, slalom is about having a good time with good people. Don’t get me wrong, winning is cool too but for those of us who don’t have the time to practice a lot, (which is most of us) we still give it hell on race day hoping our much faster opponent will DQ. Personally, I could care less if it's STS, TS, Hybrid, GS, SGS...whatever it is… I'm gonna give it my best shot and have fun doing it.



Practice everything.



BTW...I got kicked off team Slacker.



Go figure.



JG practicing for the Worlds...

<p><a href="http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/Movie ... .MPG"><img border="0" width="233" height="162" src="http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/Racer ... g"></a></p>

Click Pic for video

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:33 am

Now brady...why did you need to make such a nasty comment about my mom. I seriously doubt you have been skating that long, you don't even have any clue how old she is....that was just damn lame Brady.

And for that matter who cares how long you have been skating. I don't. I'm also not going to go down the typical road of slamming you (I'll let wesley do that). I've been skating off and on since 1985, snowboarding all the time since 1984. I didn't know about slalom until 4 years ago, I start slaloming then, I wish i knew about it years ago...I would ahve done it.

But who cares.

I said this last year, I mean it even more now. Slalom needs to move on from that past. We need to look forward and move on in new directions. This "reliving 1977" stuff is bunk...

If your trip is nostolgia go nuts 9it is alot of peoples right now)...but for slalom to grow it REALLY needs to move on.

Respect the past but don't live in it.....

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Post by Brady Mitchell » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:38 am

You have me wrong there Chris. I am also against the skate and destroy mentalty. What I was trying to say was that, and maybe I wasn`t clear on it, was if we want to garner large corporate $$ we need to attract more youth to our sport. And that means things they can relate to....a sport that looks cool.

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Post by William Tway » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:40 am

Brady, you scored a 4:20 on your last run.

13, Let's practice soon damn it!!!! Looks like the rain is finally letting up. I hope to get a Radikal soon to replace my Mids and Halfs so we can set some killer STS courses. Let me know when your home course is set and I'll sneak out. (After 8:30pm)

_________________


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: william tway on 2003-09-03 03:23 ]</font>

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:43 am

Brady...you assume to much.

We should add jumps and flaming hoops to slalom...that way it will look cool to kids.

Slalom is what it is. If it doesn't look cool to kids so be it. No matter how many bells and whistles we add. If anything park slalom is something kids can relate to right now. The kids that will be into slalom will be into it no matter what.

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Post by Brady Mitchell » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:55 am

aw, c`mon Cgris, it wasn`t a dis on your mother, it was a graphic statement directed towards you to show just what the other spectrum is on skaters with differant ideas on what skateboarding is. And I bet there are a lot of young guns that veiw the sport much like us geezers.

And honestly, those times I loan my boards out to some young fellars and see that look in thier eyes, I am puzzled why they aren`t catching on to it sooner.

While I agree with you that most that are attracted to our sport, are of our upperly age, that`s not to say that the youngsters won`t get it too. How can they get it? They don`t even know it sxsists?

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:59 am

Brady ... I don't mean to belittle your opinion (this is a msg brd open for discussion)...but you REALLY need to stop drinking and posting...or smoking or whatever....

Brady Mitchell
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Post by Brady Mitchell » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:21 am

For the record...I haven`t had a drink since friday, Haven`t smoked (burned) in over a year.

The comment about your mother was off color and I didn`t think you were so thin skinned so I guess I had the drinking/smoking comment coming.

I think we all can agree that we want to have more and bigger events to participate at. And thats gonna take $$. Are you willing to fork out thou$and$ ??

It`ll probably take corprate $$ to take this to the next step and you have to realize they won`t do that unless they think they can can get thier name out there visible to a target audience. And that`s usually a younger crowd with loose spending habits

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Post by Adam Trahan » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:04 am

Jack: I apologize for the profanity, really. I've got two young kids of my own and well, there are some posts here that I'm glad they won't be reading. I'll make the choice not to use profanity in the future. As an editor for a skateboard slalom racing website, I'm going to make a choice NOT to filter such words and let that be the choice of the participant.

Wes: I'm hearing what your saying about profanity.

Again my apologies for using the "f-word"

*more grinning*

Chris: I enjoy reading your posts even though I may not agree with some of your points, thanks for investing your time here.

Brady: No apologies necessary. Where do you get those teflon coated t-shirts?

We all have opinons and I'll focus on things such as the ISSA and making a dedicated spot for skateboard slalom racing enthusiasts, to me it's sort of a goal that hopefully I'll be able to be a part of.

Duty now for the future.

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Post by Slappy Maxwell » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:06 am

Brady why do constantly continue to post on slalom sites?

Why do keep posting the 'We need bigger events' stuff when you and everybody else knows you don't race???

Don't you think it's a clue when 99% of the replies to your post are negative?

Normal people would start to think 'Gee, maybe this site isn't for me. They don't appreciate my input."

Can't you just read what's here and continue to post only at NCDSA?

Is your ego that large that you have ruin it for everybody else?

Brady Mitchell
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Post by Brady Mitchell » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:23 pm

slappy maxwell


Joined: Dec 02, 2002
Posts: 98
From: DC
Posted: 2003-09-03 02:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brady why do constantly continue to post on slalom sites?

Why do keep posting the 'We need bigger events' stuff when you and everybody else knows you don't race???

********************************************

Aw gee Slappy,
I`d have thought you might be above this.

Have I seen you slalom lately? Does that mean you don`t race?

And because a handful don`t agree with what I say, should I change be like them?

With this kind of thinking, maybe it`s YOU who should be posting on ncdsa.

"Bigger is better and more manly, you don`t skate here so you`re a non-racer" "Me and my friends don`t like you so go away"

Gee, where have I heard that before?

John Gilmour
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Post by John Gilmour » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:36 pm

What a fun thread.

I think we have to have all typoes of slalom represented... I think this thread exists because tight slalom has been under represented of late.

Last weekend Noah and I ran a super g type course on this fantastic hill he has at the PNC arts center. It got to the point where- I kept trying to squeeze in another run, another run another run- and in the end I ended up trying to pick up cones with my car on the way out as I was already late.

Hans brought up some steps to getting there larger appeal. They are logical and correct IMHO.

I also think we need a little luck.

You could imagine what would happen if Britney Spears said she likes to slalom skateboard in her spare time and attend races- we would be over run overnight. And if George Clooney started skating- well we might get more people racing in the women's class.

What if the son of ABC wide world of sports got into this- was a near pro level and his Dad wanted a place for his kid to shine. I believe Biker Sherlock's dad was/is an NBC executive.


If Lance Armstrong said he cross trains with skateboard slalom and says he bikes to stay in shape for slalom skateboarding...what then? Would Gareth, Chicken, Peggy, and Jack be crushed under huge sales orders from bike shops?


What if the US Government decided to put anti terrorist "look out slopes" in every major US city and they were perfect for slalom? (yeah right)

But I think we do need some LUCK to "stumble" into the limelight. The Internet was one lucky thing.

So where is it going to come from ...who knows?


But when the luck comes- I hope we are ready.

GS courses need to be fast and on better surfaces to show more body angulation- the equipment has to improve A tremendous amount for GS. We need more grip, more stability, more speed.

Super G courses could currently be run.

TS courses need excellent announcing and commentary. Football to some looks like two crowds running around- to others with great announcing they understand and get into what is going on. Television and DVD's + cheap editing software give us the chance to have a football type commentary with drawing on the screen ,form analysis, body positioning, nd close ups of wheel slides and stance changes and all the exciting stuff that people ussually don't see or understand unless they become a participant.

I think hill crusiing is what made skateboarding big in the first place. The fun is still there.

I think we can go tighter and have a smaller race for any specialists show up at a particular venue- provided we have time and the hill.

If Chaput, Brent, Hutson, and Biker show up for a race and there is a big hill available....by all means- try if possible to set up a monster super g - don't miss out on that jaw dropping experience. I was thinking how cool it would be to see some good downhillers charge the PNC arts hill.

If Martin Sweeney, Simon Levene, Clingfilm, Anatoly Matsukevich, and Keith Hollien sign up for a race - damn...try to have them set a ultra tight tech TS and stand back in awe.

But Dual racing has a big cost.....time. Single track allows many races to go on simultaneously with spectators and racers being able to go from one course to another to check in on the slalom 3 ring circus. Less waiting for everyone.

I think one thing that must happen if we are to offer tighter courses in conjunction with other types of racing is that we must either
limit the duals bracket to 8 (perhaps 16 at the biggest contests) ....or come up with another format for duals other than the knock out system which must be run in order.

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Post by Brian Parsons » Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:55 pm

I am not one to get involved in this type of posting but I am somewhat confused by this entire course setting soap boxing.

It is my opinion that as a slalom racer you should be able to race on any course on any hill on any surface and on any coastline. An individual’s ability level, finances and desire should be the only limits in race participation. I did not care much for the GS course at the 2002 LaCosta but it was more fun than skating by myself in a parking lot back in DC.

Ride everything; Slalom is such a small part of skateboarding why do you want to create an even smaller niche in slalom by restricting courses.

Vlad, Chris, I appreciate your desire to make slalom a more athletic sport with greater equipment enhancements. I am sorry that you have chosen to protest by not attending the Worlds. I personally believe you are only hurting yourselves. Slalom skateboarding is fun. Its not some high stress professional sport that is so competitive that all of the stoke gets sucked out of it. I really can’t comprehend the animosity that I am hearing on this board. I will say it again…. SLALOM IS FUN…win or lose, tight or GS.

I have been to 4 FCR races and about 15 East Coast races since this whole thing started. I have raced on almost every type of course imaginable. To me the course is just like a basketball court, football field or a racetrack. It is an even playing field for all participants. Courses don’t beat racers, racers beat racers.


OK, OK, Vlad the next Outlaw race you can set the course however you want it. And no one will complain. Except WesE.:smile:

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Post by Vlad Popov » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:09 pm

Brian, I have no problem with your courses and races. Your GS and Longboard SL have been my favorites.

There is no need for me to set your courses.

There is a need for me to participate in higher-level comps so that my potential is fully utilized. There are none/very small number of these competitions around. The years go by. We don't get younger.


I don't boycot MB. I just don't want to go. What's going on there is not for me. My current skill level is a little beyond that... DC is more fun. It's close and it's practiclaly the same thing. I've been to many DC races and it's the funnest slalom comps around. There is no need to fly coast to coast for a "DC Outlaw" replica with an added non-slalom twist that I reject with every cell of my body.

I'll stay in DC and I'll put on a slalom Cup in DC. With my own money.

Can I borrow your timer?

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Sep 03, 2003 8:34 pm

brian...I agree with you, somewhat. part of being a "racer" is showing up to a race course and dialing in yourself to that course, no matter what it is.

My issue is that everything is so one sided. it isn't about GS or TS...just a mentality.

I've had the most fun over the past 3 years racing in DC. I agree with vlad, though choose my words differently, about racing out west and racing in DC being close to the same.

I am not boycotting the worlds....rather I don't want to go. I know what to expect and i know the attitude I will see (from a small but LOUD and annoying minority) and frankly don't want to deal with it. Beyond that I would rather save that money and race in europe next year.

I was at the worlds last year....what has changed? Not much. I wish Jack and Co. the best with the event.

Given the choice of traveling to california to ride a skateboard or traveling to Europe.....hands down europe wins, no contest. It costs close to the same for me from NYC, Europe is even slightly cheaper.

I'll see you all in DC this month, I think.

Hans Koraeus
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Thu Sep 04, 2003 2:55 am

Chris, seldom I read long posts where I agree with everything someone says.
Well, I do with yours. A proof that you don't have to have been skating/slaloming
since 1895 to have good comments and ideas.

But... in your last post (and Vlads by the way) I finally found something alarming.
For me the Worlds aought to be the most important race of the year.
If some very good slalomers prefer to put there money on other competitions instead there is something wrong.
When you both say you don't want to go because you don't want to I think it's alarming.
If it was for the money I wouldn't have said anything. But don't want to?
For me that means you're sending a political message out.
But it's not clear what the message is?
- You don't see it as a World Championship?
- You don't expect good course setting?
- You don't like the organisation?
- You don't like the athmosphere?

Good to know to be able to take proper actions.

A World Championship will always favor the home crowd. If on the east coast it will favor you.
If in Europe it will favor Europeans. That is always taken into account.
A Californian winning Worlds in California is less impressing than a Californian doing it
on the east coast or in Europe. And vice versa. So look on the bright side.
You have more to win than the Californians.
That's why I think it's not fare to the Californians to have the Worlds on home turf too often.
They should be given the chance to win Worlds on foreign ground as well.

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Post by Jack Smith » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:04 am

Hello Hans,

I agree that Californians should have a chance to win a World title somewhere other than California. It will happen as soon as someone else takes over the reigns.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:06 am

My classmate was a pingpong Euro champ. He was a pro when he was 16. We played pong in high school between class sessions. One time we got him to play with us. He lost to every single body. We gave him one of our rackets.

I beat PP Euro Champ!!!

I beat a Euro Champ!!!

I beat the Champ!!!


The moral is...have fun, Corky.


And if you don't get it at this point, it's too late to even start to guess.

All the best,
Vlad.

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:42 am

Hans,
I agree the "world championships" SHOULD be the most important race of the season. Currently it is the biggest but IMHO Paris was a more important race this season given what I think it woke up.

I have no issue with going to california to race, it is a beautiful state. I have no problem racing on the courses I expect to see (and have been told will be set). I have no problem with ignoring the certian loud mouth bullies that think they are the be all end all of slalom. I like and respect Jack Smith (he knows this) and have no real issue with FCR any longer.

The "world championships" could be held in New York City next week and I probably still wouldn't go.

I don't want to go (there are a few other reasons involving limited travel budgets I want to save to race in Europe next season....starting a new job, etc...)

I am bummed I missed Paris. Sad I missed Gruningen. BUt not sad to miss "the world championships".

Technically they are a "world championships", Jack smith has stepped up to make it happen three years in a row...it has done ALOT for the sport...but in a real sense it is not a real "world championships". I outlines a few posts back what I see as a real world championship...this is not. BUt you know Jack is making it happen and it is as close as we have right now.

Everyone should go be "world champions", more power to you guys.

I wish you luck Hans...I was there last year, I had a great time, I got to see alot of people I call friends, I got to see Jani ride and s-camber I got to see the guy I train with (Noah) race Henry Hester....it was great. But what has changed since then? Not much, I'm a much different (and better ) rider...but I'm also alot more picky as to what I want to do in slalom....maybe next year I will go....who knows, it ain't happening this year.


enjoy Hans...se eyou in Europe next year.

Hans Koraeus
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Thu Sep 04, 2003 3:52 am

Vlad, if the moral is... have fun. Why aint you coming? I'm there. What could be more fun? :smile:

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Post by Terry Kirby » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:20 am

Vlad, I will lambaste you in a Ping Pong match, swear to god I will. Don't even go there.TK

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Post by Vlad Popov » Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:24 pm

Too late. I already went there. I beat a Euro Chapm when I was 16!

Me +1000 points . That Euro Chapmp looser- minus 200! For life! I'm the greatest ping pong player in the world!


I ain't playing no loosers who's never beat a Euro Ping Pong Champ! My class is so not in your class, TK...

I can probably beat many champs in many sports I play. Jeff Gordon is gonna loose to some "king of the track" in carts (that he started with a while ago), who's an avarage cart club rider, a track record holder and all that...

Beginnir courses = for beginnirs.

Have fun...if you can.

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Post by Troy Smart » Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:48 am

What the hell is wrong with you guys??

You talk about ways to further the sport, what should happen, what it needs, blah, blah, blah, ad nausiem.
Then you talk shit about FCR. (and you definately are talking shit about them, I don't care how you explain that you're not).

FCR is the best thing to happen to the sport.
I would bet you any amount of money that neither one of you would be into slalom AT ALL, if not for FCR and the races they host.
At least be a little appreciative.
A good way to do that would be to shut the F*&k up.
Don't go to the worlds. No one cares, just don't whine about it, (and you are most definately whineing in the most pathetic, condescending way).
I have a couple of bumper stickers I found while cleaning my basement. I'd like to send them to you both. You could stick them to the bottom of your boards.
They say "Baby on board".
P.S. I'm not going to the worlds either. Maybe we could get together and have our own little skate contest.
We could call it the "Mr. Universe" contest or something.
What do you say??

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:54 am

Troy...where does all this bitterness come from, my god you are worst than me and I am a big bitchy baby!

Should we be happy FCR happened? Yes, by all means. Is FCR perfect and above criticism? No, not at all. Can FCR be organized and run differently? Yes, no doubt about it.

I don't get this "FCR is above criticism" attitude. Sure they stepped up and have run a series, lost money, yadda yadda yadda...we know all that. I'm thankful for what they have done and have personally told Jack Smith this many times. However FCR has it's problems and I don't see why creating a dialog about these issues is such a god damn touchy issue.

Do I want to see one or two more major series run along with FCR....yes, it would be great. Am I the one to do it? Nope. However my ideas are out here in the open if they inspire someone to move forward of help them I am glad I could help.

I think you should just chill out Mr. "baby on board"....

Brady Mitchell
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Post by Brady Mitchell » Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:48 am

Chris,
You made a couple of comments in your post that I`d like to comment. Yes, I`ll be copying and pasting but not adding to. Maybe it might be taking your words out of context, but my point is to highlight what "I" perceive as non-constructive jibs rather than constructivr critisizm.

You said...

"I don't get this "FCR is above criticism" attitude. Sure they stepped up and have run a series, lost money, yadda yadda yadda...we know all that."

It may be the written word on a message board but "yadda, yadda, yadda" seems very condescending.

And also you stated...

"However my ideas are out here in the open if they inspire someone to move forward of help them I am glad I could help."

I`ve only garnered from your previous posts that the courses FCR sets don`t inspire you and because there is no regional, state, or country systems of which the worlds are the finality of. I also get the notion that you don`t like the attitudes of some from those that are from the current geological area of the 2003 "Worlds". I also get the impression the you feel the "Worlds" should be TS race.

I am not going to say your points are invalid. I just don`t see any offering of constructive critisizm.

And I probably don`t blame you for not doing so. Why? Remember early 2002 when I was the first to openly critisize the "Worlds of 2002" qualfying format? I then was beleaguered with an onslaught of false accusations of commenting on FCR races of which I never attended. I dare any say I did this (without lying).

Maybe Adam T is right, it`s the teflon shirts I wear...heh heh!! But if you are going to comment at all, counter on what YOU think the courses or qualifying or whatever, should be. Or don`t comment at all.

Just saying "my ideas are out there" don`t cut it.

As for me, I may not have the best people skills but I speak with no forked tongue. I never called myself a racer but I do like to race. Maybe i`m more of a "slalom enthusiast" (sp?).

*********************************************

OK Wesly and Slappy, I`ve just changed into a new T-shirt (fresh from the Dupont factory), let `em rip....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-09-05 00:26 ]</font>

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Post by Troy Smart » Fri Sep 05, 2003 12:26 pm

There's no bitterness there Chris. I just think a couple of you need a little reality check.
The FCR organizers are intelligent, capable men who have there reasons for doing what they do.
It only becomes touchy when you do what you are doing.
You're not "creating a dialog" and I don't think your words on this "inspire" anyone. What you do seem to be doing is coping a superior attitude and whineing.
Show a little respect and understanding or put your own series on.
Was the last FCR race Breckenridge?
I think that was the last one, anyway, I went (my only FCR race), and what I found was a pretty decent tight and GS course. Granted, I don't like my courses quite as tight as you do, but I do like tight slalom and I did like the courses and I think you would have too.
My only complaint is that I spent 150 bucks on entrance fees, then had to BUY a t-shirt that I later discovered was from last year.(what's up with that?).
So anyway, take heart. I believe that tighter is coming to FCR.
Maybe not as tight as you would like but tighter none the less.
I like and respect you (and even Vlad), and consider you to be a friend (Vlad, I consider to be something like an evil superhero).
Friends let each other know when they've got a boog hangin or a piece of mayonaise on there chin.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Troy Smart on 2003-09-05 07:11 ]</font>

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Post by Vlad Popov » Fri Sep 05, 2003 3:31 pm

***************************************


What's the point? I'm done.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vlad popov on 2003-09-05 10:39 ]</font>

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:04 pm

Brady...

"It may be the written word on a message board but "yadda, yadda, yadda" seems
very condescending."

I typed the yadda yadda yadda because we all know about FCR and the money issues and problems of putting one vents etc....it has been discused over and over...the yadda yadda yadda (as opposed to blah blah blah) was meant that I don't feel like typing AGAIn what is for the most part common knowledge. Nothing condescending about it....

I've said this all week. The issue isn't about tight slalom vs. giant slalom (for me at least) a good course is a good course, period....my gripe is I don't tink there is a balance of views or opinions. It seems everyone sees FCR as the only game in town (it is for the most part as a series) and we shouldn't look to change, add or improve upon the FCR series or a completely new series.

The attitude I talk about "over there" is only a few loud mouth bullies that have nothing better to do than infect which for most people is a positive thing. You know this better than I because you have dealt with it longer. Hell until I disagreed with the almighty himself over on the other site I was "good people" but now that I don't share the same views I am "dead" in his words...really mature. THIS is the attitude I am talking about and something I frankly don't want to deal with.

As for the worlds and what a "real" world champion is I've typed that over and over in this thread and msg brd. It should be clear by now

"I just don`t see any offering of
constructive critisizm."

huh? I don't follow you brady....I thin the same of your words. Responding to this post seems liek a waste of my time because I thought this was all clear. it is to most others....

Troy...
Again the issue ISN'T about tight slalom. If FCR set just stupidly tight courses for the worlds...i STILL wouldn't go. I like a good and challenging course. We have both run courses Gilmour has set that range from stupid tight/ech to open GS...they are a ton of fun, right?

I respect jack...and respect what FCR has done...but I don't see why everyone thinks it is above criticsism.

Also why is everyone's answer to that say "put on your own event"? I understand the realities of putting on events...and knowing that is why I would NEVER do it. Even if I doubt I doubt that anyone would enjoy the type of event I would stage. Anyone could criticize it all they want...that doesn't mean I need to listen.

My critique of FCR and such isn't meant even for FCR....rather others thinking of events and were to go with it. FCR is going to do what they do and that is fine. The more options we have out there for slalom the better.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-09-05 10:17 ]</font>

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Post by John Gilmour » Fri Sep 05, 2003 6:22 pm

Wow- lets go tighter.

Well it is true in TS there are so many ways to express TS.

In Gs the question is.. How fast is the hill and what are the offsets like?

In TS we have-

-people who would like very tight flat courses
-people who would like very tight tech flat courses
-people who would like very tight flat straight courses
-people who would like no very tight but very fast courses
-people who would like semi tight very fast very technical courses
-people who would like very simple courses
-people who would like very widely spaced straight gates which are hard to find speed
-people who would like to run my courses (me)

I know this all looks like a lot of bickering.... it is.

But

I see it differently. I see it as passion for slalom and slalom's improvement.

Passion drives this sport. If we were impassionate about it....we wouldn't even bother to practice.

I am looking forward to the GS and slalom cross at the Worlds. I am not excited about TS on flat slopes. Frankly, I could hear that all of the courses were going to be 2 foot centers with 5 feet of offset for everything, and it still is worth flying there it to hang out with everyone and exchange ideas.

Hans said-
- You don't see it as a World Championship?
- You don't expect good course setting?
- You don't like the organisation?
- You don't like the athmosphere?

Currently Jack has the largest high talent pool of slalom skaters coming to this contest. So by attendance alone it is a contest which certainly can be considered a World Championship. Even if Jack did not call it the World Championship, and called it the USA championship liklely he wouldn't lose much attendance.

The good course setting issue. There people who like Don O'Shei's courses- Gary Cross for example. Some people liked Jack Smith's course setting of the TS at Catalina (voted best FCR course). I think Jack will set some of the best courses he has ever set this year at Morro Bay. I also think Jack not excited about last years Avila course- but I can't speak for Jack.

Jack's Organization is constantly improving. This year we will have qualifications (and for that to mean something ...it has to be on the same course we are racing). Jack is more open to suggestions - to the point of saying that if someone woud take over the reins that is fine. (sounds about as open to suggestions as anyone could possible be).

The Atmosphere.
Anyone not smiling in the photos from the last two years?

Michael Dong
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Post by Michael Dong » Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:06 am

I still envision something akin to Tennis. A grandslam series open to all countries:

For Example (in no particular order)

US Open
French Open
Italian Open
Swiss Open
UK Open
Swedish Open
German Open
_______ Open

Maybe trimmed down to 3 or 4 events. In each tennis grandslam event, it is implicit that the absolute best in the world will be at each event. Some players love French clay courts, some love the grass of Wimbledon, others kick ass on hardcourts.

Maybe some day for slalom?

Hans Koraeus
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sun Sep 07, 2003 1:40 am

Michael, I'm all for the idea even though I'm having the golf world as my favorite for how to organize the world slalom scene.

In golf you have a whole lot of different tours going on. They all handle themselves quite independently. The two most important are the USPGA Tour and the European Tour.

During the year there are 4 majors. In the majors you expect to have the very best gathered whatever tour they play on. There are of course a lot of complex rules of how these persons are selected. Different tours and competitions have different status.

Each tour has its own ranking but on top of all rankings there is also a world ranking. It takes into account all competitions. Needless to say the Majors are the most important and prestigous and gives the most ranking points.

There are so much to talk about around this subject. Let's come back to this after Morro Bay and see if we can't get a master plan together for next year from an open discussion here at the forum.

Adam Trahan
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Post by Adam Trahan » Sun Sep 07, 2003 9:28 pm

The idea here is dialog.

Looks like plenty of that going on.

Gilmour has a good perspective on this and so does Jack, Vlad, Troy and Chris and there are others.

I think Jack is listening...

I also think M.Dong has a good view of this but who is going to be able to put a series on in the East? I don't think it has to be a single person, it can be a series with people in the area of the race organizing. You guys need an organization, rules and you need representatives to run the races.

What FCR has done is honorable no doubt and I think your going to be hard pressed to eclipse it. I do think it can be done but the most likely way to get something going where you pull people from around the country, around the world in a East Coast series of races is to organize.

The answer has been discused ad naseum here. You guys who have thrown a race get together on organization, a set of rules and a calendar and do it. I bet you can do this and do it well. Your races will be from Florida to New York...

Gilmour, Kirby, Mitchel, Byrd, Tway, Bitner, McCree, Stanzial, Wes (there are others) are your organizers, ISSA rules, who has a calendar? The East Coast of America having a series from New York to Florida using an International set of rules that are founded in Europe? Sounds pretty good to me, anyone else have a better idea?

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