ISSA - International Slalom Skateboarding Association

Christopher Bara, in another thread, wrote:The Trakmate itself is inexpensive, but the lines/switches can get costly, so it's good to shop around.

I never had to buy any tape switches, my old ones from the 70's still works. I still occasionally use them. In the early 90's John Gilmour brought me a whole set of new tape switches and those are the ones I primarily use nowadays.

Personally I'll try to avoid using tapeswitches in major races as the I now own enough light beams, but they're still the most convenient up on the starting ramp.

For practise there's no alternative to tapeswitches. In the places I skate I couldn't imagine leaving ligth beams "down the road" for people to kick down or run over. Same would go for leaving a lap top up at the start. A Trakmate timer is easier as it's small and most people wouldn't appreciate its value. Skaters also tend to hang out around the start of the course, so there's less of a problem up there.


I think it would be good if we would all know exactly where to get these switches and exactly what they cost. If anyone one bought any in the last couple of years, can you post a reply here with cost, quantity and supplier.

My idea is that it might be worth for somebody to open up a channel to one of these suppliers and make sure we can supply the people who need equipment in an uncomplicated way. As I'm now venturing into timing country again, I feel this might be a mission of mine.

/Jani

Jani, on a preliminary search it would appear for tape switches that a web monopoly is held by a company called Tapeswitch: www.tapeswitch.com/indxribb.php

They also have a manufacturing base in the UK:
www.tapeswitch.co.uk/Ribbon_Switch/Ribbon_Switches.htm

It might also be worth checking out these sites for assistance/ recommendations:
www.timingguys.com/ www.mikrotime.co.uk/ www.hssports.co.uk or local national equivalent. Search under 'sports timing.'




"131A ribbon switch is designed for foot, hand or mechanical activation and can be bent around smoothly curved corners. It can be supplied with a sleeve end (lower profile) or alternatively with a block end (131AMT)."


These 'ribbon switches' seem to be made to custom lengths and so a price list was not immediately avaliable.

Great compilation of facts (as always)!

I remember having been to this companys website before, but I never tried to do business with them. I still need to check out the other.

Has anyone bought anything from this company?
Has anyone bought any tape switches anywhere?

/Jani

I went to the Swedish distibutor and talked to them about this, some 2 years ago. I tried to convince them I was one of the founders of this international, gigantic skateboard company ettsexett and that we had the intention of building a timing system to the mass market.

When he told me that the tapeswithes for one lane alone would cost 1400 SEK+25% swedish V.A.T which would translate into 155€ + V.A.T. the idea kind of died. The guy was nice, and gave me a set as a sample, and 3 months later when they got stolen from my car I got 2 new sets and those are the ones we still use. From what I remember the swedish prices seemed kind of high compared to the ones in germany that we found on the net. Perhaps from the fact that they gave away too many samples?

I read a post somewhere where the person was trying to salvage tape switches from old public transit buses in junkyards...

Q

What length would be preferred for each tape switch? I was thinking in the region of about 5 feet, but would this be too short or too long? In addition, is there a recommended universal cable interface (plug and socket) to which the switch is attached that most people are using? Presumably it should be waterproof, impact and pull-proof. Lastly, would four tape switches be best for a head-to-head race or is there a system of timing where three might be preferred?

...and if you're heading past the scrap depot, then pick up a digital screen from the front of the bus. It may not indicate Yonkers anymore, but it'll sure be handy to show race-times for us squinting types.

Sam Gordon wrote:What length would be preferred for each tape switch?

My experience is that less than a meter is good. I think my old ones used to be about 70 cm and the metal inside was quite solid. They required an effort to bend enough to take damage. Not that they were solid or anything, but just because they were a bit rigid they actually resisted bending well.

Short ones are easy to load straight into a straight back and keep at the bottom of the bag for good protection.

The new ones I got from John Gilmour were about 2 meters long. At first I thought this was really smart as I could now have wider finish lines, but it ended up being a hassle avoiding these long ones being hurt. The new metal material inside is softer and it allows me to roll these up and I thought at first that would make it easier to protect them, but in reality they're more likely to be damaged by a heavy bag, a skate or something else stacked upon the roll once in the car trunk.

I'd say 60-80 cm would be ideal at least for practice where you can set the timing strip next to the first and last cone.

In a Super G race you probably want a finish line that is wider than 60-80 cm, but in a race you may not want to use tapeswitches (at least not at the finish line).

/Jani

Sam Gordon wrote:In addition, is there a recommended universal cable interface (plug and socket) to which the switch is attached that most people are using? Presumably it should be waterproof, impact and pull-proof.

The way the cables are attached to the tapeswitches is the weak link of the chain, at least when you attach them yourself. They will eventually get damaged. Maybe when they come out of production they're better attached, but this is probably the biggest problem I've had with them.

Sam Gordon wrote:Lastly, would four tape switches be best for a head-to-head race or is there a system of timing where three might be preferred?

Four is needed if you want to do a dual timer head-to-head race.

You could also play around with three (one being really long or two in serie) and say that both timers are started when the first skaters hits the starting line.

The way I use them, I only use the starting lines to detect false starts. The time is started by the PC or Trakmate beeps.

/Jani

We bought some tape switches from Tapeswitch.com

We bought 5-feet long switches.

Chris Barker (timing guru from Colorado) has 2-foot long tape switches that exactly fit the width of the starting ramps, and 7-foot long tape switches for the finish lines. I think this makes a lot of sense because the switches are not bent or damaged by being too long on the ramp, and the long finish line switches help keep the racers going over the middle of the tape switch and away from the fragile ends.

The tape switches came pre-assembled with wires reliably attached. You attach your connector to the end of the wire, or splice in a wire/connector end to the bare ends of the tapeswitch wires.

The connectors Chris and I use are modular telephone connectors, either the 8-wire Ethernet style (RJ45) or the 6-position telephone connectors (RJ6).

Two switches can be used if you have a "surprise" start (like a starter's gun, or a set of "horse-race" gates) that starts both clocks at once. More typically, 4 tape switches are used (start/stop for each lane) with a cadence count-down to the start. I can't think of a scenario where three switches would be useful in a dual race.

-- Pat

Pat Chewning wrote:I can't think of a scenario where three switches would be useful in a dual race.

-- Pat

The Eastbourne race I went to in the UK had a common start with the two skaters pushing their way out of the starting box (no ramp), so there are cases where a three switches could be used.

/Jani

I've just spoken with Steve Carter, the Southern sales representative of Tapeswitch UK. He said that they are indeed the company that put together the UKSSA switches for Clingfilm, including 10m of cable for routing to the finish tapes and 100m extending to the start.

On requesting prices for 4 switches (2x3 ft & 2x5 ft) the quote came to £35.18 per strip including cable attachment, resulting in a final cost of £140.72 (around 202 euros).

Did that include cabling or just a few meters of cable so that the switches are attached (this is the only important part)?

The price is pretty high I think. Maybe we shouldn't ask for small ones and instead buy them in 2.5 lengths or whatever would be the most cost-effiecient size. Manual work such as attaching cables we can do ourselves.

Thanks Sam for opening up this contact. I suggest that automatically makes you the world wide tape switch supplier for the skateboard world.

PS. Next time you call them, can you ask about quality, stiffness etc and see if there are different products which could be of interest to us.

Thanks!

/Jani

anyone ever used pressure pads/mats instead of tape switches? i stumbled across a site selling them, the main application is security but apparently they are also used for art installations etc. in the UK you can get a 575mm x 175mm pad (designed for a staircase) for just £7 (US$13).

http://www.arun-electronics.co.uk/pressure_mat.htm

it looks like the pad itself will need sandwiching, possibly between two thin pieces of vinyl floor covering, but fingers crossed it may offer a very cheap alternative to tapeswitches.

Interesting idea!

My only concern is the width. If it's that wide it may mean problems to adhere to the surface of the mat, but maybe it's not really a problem. When we use the 15 mm wide tape switches we normally add at least two rounds of duct tape so the whole width is probably something like 120 mm.

Can you get one and see if you can cut it in half (or more)?

/Jani

Jani,

i've just had confirmation from the manufacturer that the mats can be cut down, as long as we can find a way to re-seal the "bag" after to stop moisture & dirt getting in...i'm thinking super glue & duct tape!!

there are some clear pics of the pads at RS Components website, www.rswww.com

part number 317-140 and 317-156

the idea would be to make a sandwich; some thin ply for the base (a section of router mat glued to the bottom would give excellent non-skid), then the pressure pad (doublesided carpet tape would lock it all in place), and over that some vinyl floor covering (this could be overlapped slightly to allow a smooth roll on/off. for extra security the edges could be duct taped to the road.

thats the plan, whether it would work or no is another story. but for the price of the pad its worth a shot as if succesful it will be significantly cheaper than the normal tapeswitch.

now just need to get around to ordering up that trakmate i've been going to buy all week.

ok, bought a pressure pad and have partially dissected it.

the construction is; a tough pvc outer, welded seams. the stuff inside is basically two sheets of what looks like paperbacked tin foil (i'm sure theres a technical term) seperated by a thin (2mm or so) foam with holes in. the wires are soldered to thin copper/brass plates and stuck to the tin foil with what looks like mylar tape. all in all very low tech.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v672/ ... CN3296.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

i bought the stairway strip, it cost a mere £3.99 (UK pounds). the inner is 12cm, and a piece of cake to cut down into say 4cm strips in order to get a narrower tape switch. it may be an idea to make some more holes in the foam to ensure a connection every time but thats it.

i did some rough tests with an multimeter and it took medium pressure with my palm to activate. front wheels of a skate no probs. it will need a good base, and some thin ply/vinyl floor covering over the top. it would work with no covering, but i would worry that the weight/pressure of a skate would damage the foam quite quickly.

the trakmate i've ordered is going to be a good few weeks away, so can't do any real testing until then. for now it looks hopeful.

if anyone has a broken tapeswitch it would be very interesting to get a description of the inners of that, especially with regards to the weight of the metal plates and how they are seperated.

p.s. pad came from http://www.maplin.co.uk

here's an update on the cheap tapeswitch as above...

i cut down the inner foam (usefuly the holes that the contact is made through are in lines) and contact foil to make a 4cm strip. then trimmed the PVC outer and resealed with duct tape. this i mounted onto a 7cm wide piece of thin board, and covered with a 17cm wide piece of floor vinyl. its a bit of a quick bodge as i just wanted to see if it would work, but early indications from rolling over it on my office floor are that it worked well. certainly it activated the trakmate on every occasion.

i'll make it a bit more solid now, add some antislip (router mat) to the base so it will grip the road, and give it a good go to see if it holds up.

the extra bonus is that within the one switch as supplied there is enough material to make 3 similar switches as this - all being well £1.33 ($2.40 - don't ask me in euros!) a switch.