ISSA Logo - time to update it?

International Skateboard Slalom Association

Moderators: Jonathan Harms, Jani Soderhall

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Postby Jonathan Harms » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:39 pm

I agree with Karl's idea. Publicize it a little bit more (maybe even on Silverfish?), then after an announced deadline, set up a vote of some sort on this site.
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Postby Cat Young » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:48 pm

I think it should be up to the people we elected to the board.
They take a vote amongst themselves.
Done deal.
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Postby Wesley Tucker » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:49 pm

Well, any vote to change the logo would be in the voting forum and only ISSA members have access.

If and when the Board approves having a vote there will be plenty of notice and publicity to the members of a need to participate in the process.
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Postby Jonathan Harms » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:01 pm

Wow, y'all are fast on the replies today!

If there's a process in place, as Wesley says, so much the better. All I really care about is that we end up with a good logo.

To that end, let me clarify what I meant to say in my post above. By "publicize it more" (perhaps on Silverfish), I meant to throw it open to people beyond just this site. That's what Zak Maytum did when he wanted a logo for Venom bushings, and the entries there were very good. I mean no disrespect to anyone who's posted a logo here already, as some of those are very good also. Rather, I mean that if we're going to make the effort to change the public face of the ISSA, we might as well take a little bit of extra time and cast a larger net, so to speak.
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Postby Wesley Tucker » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:58 pm

The way it works is this:

ANY initiative starts with a member (including board members) bringing a motion to a Board member. In theory it could die right there if no board member takes up the motion. (One of the reasons to get elected to the Board is to have instant access for proposing whatever notion one wants to the Board to consider.)

Then the motion is put before the seven-member board. They ONLY DECIDE whether or not to put forward a motion to the members for a vote. The best way to describe it is the Board acts as a "clearinghouse" for ideas, new rules and other motions. This way every screwball idea someone comes up with doesn't automatically get a vote. The Board is the screwball filter.

If a majority of the Board agrees then the members vote. (It's all a lot more convoluted to describe than it really is. A member just asks a Board member to consider it, the board member puts it before the Board and the Board puts it to the membership.)

This logo process can be decided quickly by four members of the Board wanting it put before the membership. Then however many designs are available will be put before the members and the one with the most votes win.
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Postby Hans Koraeus » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:22 am

In my view everything if fine as it is except maybe we could have an official slalom racer as a backdrop. But it is very difficult to get it to look good and most often looks cheap and overkill.

I think an International association logo should be quite conservative and clean as a base. I think the one we have works well and can easily be transformed in many ways.

Image

From the simple base. Drop a shadow if you want. Add some 3D. Add som cones on the side maybe.

And when needed depending on situation you can just put the "International Slalom Skateboard Association" text under it. Or on the side.

The logo we have works really well on banners (http://www.slalomranking.com) or as markers on photos aso.

Here is the current ISSA logo package by the way.

I propose working with the logo we already have.
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Postby Erik Basil » Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:24 pm

As someone that writes articles, coverage and promotionals for events or news related to ISSA in some manner, I am very happy to see this discussion regarding the need for an established logo. Branding is important and, on the most simple level, people need some consistent logo we can insert into flyers, shirts, banners, articles and more.

Right now, I'm running a newsflash item on Silverfish so that some of the 11-12k daily visitors might learn about the new rulebook PDF that Wes alerted me to. When I whipped up the grueling 27-word piece, I needed a graphic "for the click". I couldn't find a logo in my files, nor here. Next best, I'm using a photo of Mike Cividino skating as the clickable. In the future, I may use a graphic I pulled from higher up in this thread.

When I put together pieces involving IGSA, Coast, La Costa Boys, Fat City Racing, GSI, Black Leather Racing, Downhillbillies, the Dragon Skate Race, ASSA, on and on... there's some kind of logo out there we can insert to flyers and articles. It makes things a lot easier for everyone.

One suggestion: pick something with "smooth edges" in it. Those are easier to reproduce on physical media.
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Postby Wesley Tucker » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:33 pm

Rick Floyd wrote:Just playing with Antonio's idea - his typeface, Pirnack in silhoutte from a Fadell photo...

Image

-RF
Rick,

You got it backwards. It's SKATEBOARD SLALOM, no SLALOM SKATEBOARD.
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Postby Jonathan Harms » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:29 pm

True, but Corky also did the same thing in his post just above. And I'm sure that many others would make the same "mistake" if you asked them what the letters ISSA stand for--especially native English speakers. I don't want to muddy the waters here too much, but I can't help but wonder why the wording is as it is. As I've said before on this forum, I think it sounds clunky and awkward, and I would bet that a majority of native English speakers would say ISSA stands for International Slalom Skateboard(ing) Association rather than International Skateboard Slalom Association. If the same "mistake" keeps coming up, I think it might be time for a change in wording sometime soon.
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Postby Jani Soderhall » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:46 pm

I was at the meeting where the wording was decided. One of the arguments was that we are skateboarders and that slalom is subcategory of skateboarding. Like that we also assured that we'd be sorted correctly in an alphabetical listing among other skateboard federations rather than among other slalom federations.

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Postby Donald Campbell » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:17 pm

grammatically seen that wording is absolutely uncorrect.
you should be aware of that fact!
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Postby Marcus Rietema » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:42 pm

Jonathan Harms wrote:Wow, y'all are fast on the replies today!

If there's a process in place, as Wesley says, so much the better. All I really care about is that we end up with a good logo.

To that end, let me clarify what I meant to say in my post above. By "publicize it more" (perhaps on Silverfish), I meant to throw it open to people beyond just this site. That's what Zak Maytum did when he wanted a logo for Venom bushings, and the entries there were very good. I mean no disrespect to anyone who's posted a logo here already, as some of those are very good also. Rather, I mean that if we're going to make the effort to change the public face of the ISSA, we might as well take a little bit of extra time and cast a larger net, so to speak.


I agree with you Jonathan. We need to get as many people as possible making submissions. Let's get the word out that we are accepting submissions for a new logo and it should contain the following design elements:
1. The acronym "ISSA"
2. The phrase "International Slalom Skateboarding Association"
3. Graphics that uniquely identify the sport of slalom skateboarding.

I propose a deadline of Feb 15 for submissions. After that the ISSA Board should pick five finalists. Those finalists will be posted on the ISSA site and members will then vote for their favorite from Feb 18-28. This way we will have a new logo in place and ready to use by March 1.

Now if we are going to have a contest we need to have a prize for the winner. Any ideas?
Last edited by Marcus Rietema on Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Robert Gaisek » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:10 pm

"Now if we are going to have a contest we need to have a prize for the winner. Any ideas?"

Free travels for 2009?
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The actual name that goes with ISSA

Postby Pat Chewning » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:14 pm

ARTICLE I: NAME

The name of this organization shall be the International Slalom Skateboarding Association (ISSA).



This is in our Constitution. I remember discussions about the naming. This is what we voted on.

Not that it really matters .... "A rose by any other name..... "
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Re: The actual name that goes with ISSA

Postby Marcus Rietema » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:24 pm

Pat Chewning wrote:
ARTICLE I: NAME

The name of this organization shall be the International Slalom Skateboarding Association (ISSA).



This is in our Constitution. I remember discussions about the naming. This is what we voted on.

Not that it really matters .... "A rose by any other name..... "


Thanks for that info Pat. It's pretty bad when when hardly any of us know the real name of the organization. If the ISSA's Constitution says the name is "International Slalom Skateboarding Association" and especially since you say it was specifically voted on, we should use that name.

I guess the first thing that needs to be done is the name needs to be updated on this site! Who is able to do that?
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Postby Wesley Tucker » Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:53 pm

OK. If it was changed then that's cool.

What I remembered was Jani discussing it several years ago and how the original intent was to emphasize we are skateboarders who slalom, not slalomers who skateboard.

If it got changed in 2008 then that's good. I guess someone needs to update the links on this page.
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Postby Karl Floitgraf » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:56 pm

I have to say Skateboard Slalom seems better and uses less text which might be useful in creating graphics. Slalom Skateboarding doesn't sound as good. But I suppose it is all just semantics.
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Postby Marcus Rietema » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:49 pm

This is amazing to me! Maybe we need to vote on this to lay it to rest once and for all.

Should it be

1. International Skateboard Slalom Association
2. International Slalom Skateboard Association
3. International Slalom Skateboarding Association

Are there any others?

Westley, can you set up a ballot so we can vote on this. Hopefully we can settle this quickly but it definitely needs to be settled! How about if we open the polls from today through Feb 3. That would give people one week to vote. I would do it myself but I don't know how... Thanks!

I understand Jani's argument for placing "Skateboard" before "Slalom". On the other hand the website and everything else seems to be geared toward "Slalom Skateboard". Even our website is "SlalomSkateboarder". There are good arguments for both.
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Postby Stephen Lavin » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:50 pm

LOL - now there is an identity problem (we don't know exactly who we are) to go with what we think we should look like. Sounds like a crisis.

Good thing is we're all skaters with brains (well some brains anyway). Whether the "S" goes before the "S" or not (by letter) doesn't seem to matter unless the full organization name is written with the initials in the wrong order right? Changing the logo will likely be easier than changing existing constitution I would imagine or simply save that constitution change or decision process for a later date.

I'm kinda' with Hans on this one. We have a nice logo that does not need drastic change IMO just some updating to match some new ISSA board blood, reflection of current time, styles, initiatives, etc. Changing a brand (that logo is a brand) in drastic measure can be damaging and politically difficult if not handled carefully. Not suggesting this is not being handled carefully just thinking with Harms a bit opening up the creative collective in numbers a bit more.

I am up for extreme but not sure it's necessary with this graphic change no matter how much I like Pirnak's butt..., just out there..., so strong and firm-like.

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Postby Wesley Tucker » Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:50 am

Marcus Rietema wrote:This is amazing to me! Maybe we need to vote on this to lay it to rest once and for all.

Should it be

1. International Skateboard Slalom Association
2. International Slalom Skateboard Association
3. International Slalom Skateboarding Association

Are there any others?

Westley, can you set up a ballot so we can vote on this..
Marcus,

I made a mistake. It's already been settled. The revised ISSA constitution was voted on in 2007 and approved.

If there's a desire to change it then it must start with the Board Of Directors. That means getting four members to make a decision on whether or not to have a vote. If the motion carries with the Board then it's put before the membership.
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Re: The actual name that goes with ISSA

Postby Jani Soderhall » Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:06 am

Marcus Rietema wrote:I guess the first thing that needs to be done is the name needs to be updated on this site! Who is able to do that?


Update of wording done. For future reference: it's done in the Administration Panel (for those who have access) and in the Configuration section.

/Jani
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Postby Rick Floyd » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:45 pm

Jonathan Harms wrote:True, but Corky also did the same thing in his post just above. And I'm sure that many others would make the same "mistake" if you asked them what the letters ISSA stand for--especially native English speakers. I don't want to muddy the waters here too much, but I can't help but wonder why the wording is as it is. As I've said before on this forum, I think it sounds clunky and awkward, and I would bet that a majority of native English speakers would say ISSA stands for International Slalom Skateboard(ing) Association rather than International Skateboard Slalom Association. If the same "mistake" keeps coming up, I think it might be time for a change in wording sometime soon.


:-)
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Postby Rick Floyd » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:47 pm

Wesley Tucker wrote:
Rick Floyd wrote:Just playing with Antonio's idea - his typeface, Pirnack in silhoutte from a Fadell photo...

-RF
Rick,

You got it backwards. It's SKATEBOARD SLALOM, no SLALOM SKATEBOARD.


Thanks Rick, nice work and a good start. Needs a little tweaking, but all rough designs do and the general idea is good. What does everybody else think?
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Postby Rick Floyd » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Marcus Rietema wrote:Now if we are going to have a contest we need to have a prize for the winner. Any ideas?


The first t-shirt with the design printed on it!

-RF
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Postby Rick Floyd » Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:58 pm

...and all I thought I was doing was submitting a rougly thrown together logo idea...wow.

Just to be sarcastic for the sake of it, and 'cause I need a laugh, how about: ICDSSA

International Confused and Disorganized Slalom Skateboard Association

*Editors note: the above is meant to be humorous, good-natured ribbing, and is not to be construed in any way as an insult or slight to people who are, or feel they are, the butt (sans Pirnack's) of said humorous good-natured ribbing
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Postby Jani Soderhall » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:12 am

Image

I like this logo for t-shirts and larger print, but we probably need something less advanced to go into little spaces, such as when the logo needs to fit into 5 x 5 cm, or more often 2.5 x 5 cm. Ie sizes 1-2 inches high/wide. Something which has less detail. Maybe then just the font and tag line.

/Jani
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Postby Flavio Badenes » Fri Jan 30, 2009 1:58 pm

Dutch graphic artist Wouter van Hamburg has improved the logo on the following way:

Image
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Postby Jani Soderhall » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:40 pm

The orange cone looks very cool and is a good connection to the slalom! logo.
But is it clear to everyone that the cone is an i? That may not be so apparent.

I would prefer the long text to be the same size font all along.

Maybe the skater needs to be transformed into solid black all over and possibly simplfied along the edges to appear sharper.

Great to see so many involved! Good work!

/Jani
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Postby Robert Gaisek » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:50 pm

Flavio Badenes wrote:Dutch graphic artist Wouter van Hamburg has improved the logo on the following way:

Image


Pretty cool! Maybe a dot over the "I" ? And yes....the text will look a lot nicer if it has the same height.......but I think the logo is getting better and better.
Image
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Postby Flavio Badenes » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:08 pm

Wouter is working on a new version right now. The letters were a bit bigger to give the impression that the s was a bit ahead of the cone and then the other s a bit ahead of the s and so on. But it didn't work :-)

Now the letters will be all the same size.

Regarding the point on the top of the I Wouters thinks that it is not necessary, the saying under the ISSA (International Slal.....)indicates that the cone is a I.

I would love to have a t-shirt with that logo on but I am bit suspect to say it :-)
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Postby Stephen Lavin » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:49 pm

Jani Soderhall wrote:But is it clear to everyone that the cone is an i? That may not be so apparent.


I think it is (the "I" recognition) if the full organization name is spelled out below the logo. It does look good.

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Postby Guillaume Saint-Criq » Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:50 pm

I like this one because it could be used with or without the Pirnack shadow... it would give use a simple logo that can be use on smaller resolution

maybe the Pirnack shadow should be behind the cone, that could more suggest he is skating around it.

and...
I guess it was "slalom skateboarding asso..." ans not "skateboard slalom asso..." :D
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Postby Claude Regnier » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:07 pm

How about adding a distant cone (smaller) as the dot above? Also the fact that ISSA is spelled out below does help with the visual thingy.

Also, how about a mirror image at the other end? after the A

That one could the shot of Julie and we could have the male/female coverage as well.
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Postby Joe Iacovelli » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:13 pm

Yep, that's what i suggested Claude, put Julie on like book ends.
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Oops!

Postby Claude Regnier » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:15 pm

Sorry Joe!!

Didn't have time to read everthing! Besides I ain't had enough coffee to fully open both eyes yet :)

How are you?
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Postby Rick Floyd » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:16 pm

Before anyone goes too nuts with this...the silhouette of Dave is from a photo by Greg Fadell, and is his property until and unless he gives permission to use it. I have contacted Greg about this, but have not heard back yet. I imagine that since it is for the ISSA there will be no problem, but he still needs to OK it.

I like the Orange cone idea...but whether "Wouters" has improved the design is a matter of opinion. I like how the cones in my mock-up give the illusion of depth. Pirnack's silhouette being IN FRONT of the orange cone in the most recent design does this also.

Jani's point about the logo, or a version of it, being clear in a much smaller format is a good one.

-R
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Postby Flavio Badenes » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:21 pm

Here is the new version

Image

I would also want to add that saying Wouter improved the logo was not exactly what I meant. I might have sounded arrogant. What I tried to say was that Wouter had added something to the logo or modified it.
C'mon guys I am not a native English speaker. Give me a little brake will you? :-)
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Postby Cat Young » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:40 pm

I think there has been some talk as to whether it's, "Internation Slalom Skateboarding Association" OR "International Skateboard Slalom Association."

Either it was on a different thread or I heard it in passing. ???
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Postby Claude Regnier » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:44 pm

Good point Cat!

There was adebate on this a couple of years ago. I think in the end it was Salom Skateboard as it sounded better.

Anyhow that's another thread but Thanks for bringing it up.

Rick has a good point about opinion.
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Postby Jonathan Harms » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:49 pm

You did see it, Cat. It's in this thread!!! :-) The matter was settled last year. It's International Slalom Skateboarding Association. See Wesley's and Jani's posts of Jan. 28 and Jan. 29.

And while the wording obviously needs to be correct on whatever the final product is, I think at this point it's more about the rest of the design.
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Postby Flavio Badenes » Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:51 pm

Jonathan Harms wrote:You did see it, Cat. It's in this thread!!! :-) The matter was settled last year. It's International Slalom Skateboarding Association. See Wesley's and Jani's posts of Jan. 28 and Jan. 29.

And while the wording obviously needs to be correct on whatever the final product is, I think at this point it's more about the rest of the design.


Right on the name is very easy to correct.
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Postby Marcus Rietema » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:09 pm

Flavio Badenes wrote:Here is the new version

Image

I would also want to add that saying Wouter improved the logo was not exactly what I meant. I might have sounded arrogant. What I tried to say was that Wouter had added something to the logo or modified it.
C'mon guys I am not a native English speaker. Give me a little brake will you? :-)


I think this is looking great Flavio! Please ask Wouter to change the wording to, "International Slalom Skateboarding Association" to reflect our newly clarified name.

I'd also like to suggest the both "Pirnack" and the ISSA "shadow" should be the same color. This can save the ISSA a lot of money when reproducing the logo on shirts, decals, etc. Each time you add an additional color, you add additional cost.

Finally, I'd like to see how it looks if the "International Slalom Skateboarding Association" type is filled in with orange to match the cone. Not sure if it would be an improvement but it might be?

Thank you to everyone for getting involved on this. It's great to see!!!
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Postby Rick Floyd » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:42 pm

Flavio Badenes wrote:...C'mon guys I am not a native English speaker. Give me a little brake will you? :-)


Thanks Flavio..."brake" given!! ;-)
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Postby Rick Floyd » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:46 pm

This point seems to have been missed - so I'll state it again:

Before anyone goes too nuts with this...the silhouette of Dave is from a photo by Greg Fadell, and is his property until and unless he gives permission to use it. I have contacted Greg about this, but have not heard back yet. I imagine that since it is for the ISSA there will be no problem, but he still needs to OK it.

I'm not trying to be a PITA...it's just that the "Pirnack Silhouette" was first posted in a logo mock-up I made, and I don't want to be held responsible for any copyright infringement. I am waiting to hear from Greg, or if anyone can get a hold of him before I do, please let hime know we are considering this.
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Postby Flavio Badenes » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:55 pm

Rick Floyd wrote:
Flavio Badenes wrote:...C'mon guys I am not a native English speaker. Give me a little brake will you? :-)


Thanks Flavio..."brake" given!! ;-)


Oooppss :-) I guess that was break, right? ahahahahahahahahaha :-)
see what I mean now???!!!!
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Postby Stephen Lavin » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:57 pm

The cleanup on the Pirnak outline is good. Thinking the front wheels could use some white space between them and the spelled out organization name should have a flat bottom that is also shade matching; no rounding for the letter bottoms. LOL, so many opinions but all good.

To Rick's point, Pirnak (unless he signed a release) may want a say too even though it is Hell's photo...

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Postby Flavio Badenes » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:18 pm

here are a few new samples:

Image

it is Friday eve in Amsterdam so.... see you tomorrow, I guess..... :-)
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Postby Jonathan Harms » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:14 am

My favorite is the second one from the top in the right-hand column--which is, I think, virtually the same as the one we've been discussing. The one above it is good, too, but I'd prefer it if the skater's image were moved a little further away from the cone.

I like the splash of color that the orange cone provides, but the orange lettering at the bottom is much harder to read than the white lettering, at least at small image sizes. One other problem is that when seen from far away, this logo really does look like SSA rather than ISSA.

One other idea: The shape of the letter A is more naturally cone-like than the letter I. Any chance that Wouter could come up with a version with the A being a cone instead of the I?

Finally, I mean no disrespect to Wouter--he obviously is very good at what he does, and I like what he's done so far--but if we're serious about having a really good logo, I'd still like to see some other ideas, and put them to a vote. If what's needed is a proposal to the Board, I guess I can do it, unless someone else wants to.
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Postby Cat Young » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:39 am

Ok.... again, I asked my co-workers about the different logos. (some did not know it was ISSA & they still got that the cone was an I.

We all like the same one Jonathan favored.... the middle one on the right.
Two people mentioned that the two S's should be little orange slalom cones like a race course. I thought that was a great idea if it's doable!!!!
Image
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Postby david pirnack » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:13 am

Hey all....
Cat woke me up from my winter slumber on the couch to inform me of the new logo.....Man, that's one good lookin' skater! Seriously though, it's quite a privilege to have my pic considered, though if it wasn't for Fadell, it wouldn't exist. We need to hear from him and get his blessing to use it.
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