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Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:26 am
by Louis Selby
I really like Wouter's logo direction,

maybe he could try something along the lines of putting in an actual letter "I" and having a cone before the "ISSA" letters, where the cone reflects the shape of the letter A.....

Here is my example of what I mean (in very low res and not using a very good font mind you!)


Image



Slipa

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:22 pm
by Flavio Badenes
Ok, these are the last ones Wouter will make.

I know him, he is such a creative guy that this can go on forever.
Let us know what you want and you will get it.

Here you have a few more possibilities:

Image


and


Image

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:46 pm
by Robert Gaisek
GREAT STUFF!

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:44 pm
by Jonathan Harms
Excellent stuff. I like the top one with the now goofy-footed Pirnack (on the couch, my ass). Any chance the orange cone could be made a bit smaller or the white around it could be made a bit bigger to convey more of the "I" from a distance?

I also like the top two in the "multiple" examples--they are very clean--but overall I really like the ones with the skater, which convey more of the dynamism of the activity--especially the bottom "Pirnack" one.

My only quibble with that one is that he's kind of going on the wrong side of the cone. I cropped out the other logos and then moved a couple of the cones around in GIMP to show what a more "race-correct" version might look like. Sure, it's low-res, but it's just another variation.

Image

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 10:43 pm
by Flavio Badenes
You got a point there Jonathan, here is the same logo but them with a more correct "racing line"


Image

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:06 am
by Rick Floyd
Is there some reason (almost) everyone is ignoring the fact that the silhouette of Pirnack is Greg Fadell's property and it is up to him to give the OK for this use???

And I agree also with JBH, that several diffrent designs should be submitted and then voted on - just the few people in this thread are by no means a majority.

That said - lots of good stuff being done here. We WILL have a nice new logo eventually!

:-)

-RF

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:45 am
by Jonathan Harms
Good point, Rick. I can't speak for everyone else, so...

Obviously if something like this were to become the ISSA logo, Greg would have to give his permission. At this point, however, nothing like that has been proposed or decided. Any chance this falls under "fair use"? (EBasil, Haggy or any other attorneys out there, care to weigh in on this one?)

If not, then we should all quit using it even for a mock-up.

Probably the best thing to do is just contact Fadell himself. It's too late to call him right now, but I can try calling him tomorrow and asking him directly.

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:13 pm
by Wesley Tucker
Rick Floyd wrote:We WILL have a nice new logo eventually!

:-)

-RF
Rick,

Just so there's no confusion, you do realize this is a process and a decision the ISSA membership will make?

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:25 pm
by Rick Floyd
Wesley Tucker wrote:
Rick Floyd wrote:We WILL have a nice new logo eventually!

:-)

-RF
Rick,

Just so there's no confusion, you do realize this is a process and a decision the ISSA membership will make?
Uh, yeah, I get that.

SEE ABOVE: "And I agree also with JBH, that several diffrent designs should be submitted and then voted on - just the few people in this thread are by no means a majority. "

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:30 pm
by Rick Floyd
Jonathan Harms wrote:Good point, Rick. I can't speak for everyone else, so...

Obviously if something like this were to become the ISSA logo, Greg would have to give his permission. At this point, however, nothing like that has been proposed or decided. Any chance this falls under "fair use"? (EBasil, Haggy or any other attorneys out there, care to weigh in on this one?)

If not, then we should all quit using it even for a mock-up.

Probably the best thing to do is just contact Fadell himself. It's too late to call him right now, but I can try calling him tomorrow and asking him directly.
Thanks JBH, I PM'd Fadell (from here) about this as soon as I posted my initial mock-up...but no response...don't have any other way to get in touch with him.

As a lifelong photog, I can tell you it doesn't fall under "fair use". Pirnack's likeness is probably OK since he does not appear as a "recognizable person"...to the general public I mean, we all know his style of course.

That said, I'm pretty much guessing Greg will be OK with it since it is for the good of the skate community and not for profit - but we STILL need to make sure.

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:03 pm
by Toby Warg
If you want, you are free to use any picture from our Gothenburg 2008 album.

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:49 pm
by Robert Gaisek
Was I to fat to fit into your camera?

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:07 pm
by Flavio Badenes
Toby Warg wrote:If you want, you are free to use any picture from our Gothenburg 2008 album.
Ok, thanks!.
Robert don't worry Photoshop can perform miracles these days! :-)

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:13 pm
by Donald Campbell
http://longboard.slak.nu/gallery2/v/ses ... ewsIndex=1

this seems to be a very representative pic for sure

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:21 pm
by Robert Gaisek
.....and we all know where to put the cone, right?

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:26 pm
by Toby Warg
robert gaisek wrote:Was I to fat to fit into your camera?
Oh yeah.. Maybe next time? No cookies?

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:31 pm
by Robert Gaisek
Next time I will be even bigger......and faster.

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:50 pm
by Rick Floyd
...something tells me this isn't the best way to go about this... X-P

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:23 pm
by silvio endrizzi
Dear Rick,

for sure Fadell’s agreement would be desirable, but just to be precise:-)

- Greg Fadell is the proprietor of the picture representing Pirnack skating (the one appearing on Pavel's old website).
- Greg Fadell is not the proprietor of the silhouette
- The silhouette is Wouter's creation (a derivative work).
- Wouter has created a new and original artistic logo in which this silhouette is only a part, and it is used as a symbol for capturing the essential insights of the sport.
- The logo is not a picture and it has a completely different purpose, providing even a new information ---> the ISSA.
- No one is expecting to make money with the new logo! Fadell and Pavel will probably not lose any potential market because of this silhouette.

What I'm trying to say is that this case looks more like a “highly transformative work” or a “fair use”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformativeness

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:53 pm
by Wesley Tucker
Silvio,

You are correct.

BUT

If this logo is voted on and selected then rest assured the ISSA will have Greg's permission before using it in any context.

Don't worry about any possibility of him refusing. I'll just get him drunk before I ask.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:05 am
by Rick Floyd
silvio endrizzi wrote:Dear Rick,

for sure Fadell’s agreement would be desirable, but just to be precise:-)

- Greg Fadell is the proprietor of the picture representing Pirnack skating (the one appearing on Pavel's old website).
- Greg Fadell is not the proprietor of the silhouette
- The silhouette is Wouter's creation (a derivative work).
- Wouter has created a new and original artistic logo in which this silhouette is only a part, and it is used as a symbol for capturing the essential insights of the sport.
- The logo is not a picture and it has a completely different purpose, providing even a new information ---> the ISSA.
- No one is expecting to make money with the new logo! Fadell and Pavel will probably not lose any potential market because of this silhouette.

What I'm trying to say is that this case looks more like a “highly transformative work” or a “fair use”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transformativeness
Hi Silvio - thanks for your input. One of the reasons I am concerned about Greg's approval of the use of the silhouette, is that, in fact, the silhouette is MY creation, not Wouter's - look back in this thread and you will see I was the first to use it in a design. I am friends with Greg, and Dave, and therefore want to be sure things are done right, that's all. The picture I used in fact came from Greg's website - http://www.gregfadell.com/

As I staed above in an earlier post - I clearly understand this is not for profit, and what the purpose is. I GET all that.

Whether it is "transformative" or not - I fully agree with Wes. Greg's permission is what I seek, as the use of his original photo for the derivative work was originally mine.

I also agree with Wesley that if my or Wouters design, or some form of it, is eventually used, we will get Mr. Fadell "poperly prepared" and secure his blessing for the project. :-)

Happy skating!

-RF

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:53 pm
by Donald Campbell
as i see it the whole thing is wasted time

lots of input and no forward movement

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:41 pm
by Jonathan Harms
Patience, young grasshoppa...listen for the voice of the silence... :-)

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:37 pm
by Rick Floyd
logoooooohhhhmmmmmmmmm....

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:41 pm
by silvio endrizzi
Seemingly the creators of the new logo will be three different people: namely Greg, Rick and Wouter, each with his personal contribution to the winning idea.

Therefore, you can simply state that on a piece of paper (1) in-between you guys. Further on, this new entity (you three together), real proprietor of the idea, will start the negotiations with ISSA how to exploit the logo. This can go from selling t-shirts with the logo printed on to the deposit of a Trade Mark.

(1) Please define a complete statute.

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:38 pm
by Flavio Badenes
Since we are not really into Kung-Fu here in Amsterdam we decided to act, so here we go again!!! :-)

Rider Dominik Kowalski, photo by Cirryl Schardijn.


Image


Case closed? :-)

Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:45 pm
by Jonathan Harms
I talked to Fadell last night as he was on his way to a skatepark. He doesn't check this site very often but said he might weigh in on a few things. I hope he does, because he had what I consider some very valid constructive criticism--not so much about the use of one of his images (although I know he has strong opinions about that) but about what constitutes a good logo, etc.

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:24 am
by Daniel Gesmer
Karl Floitgraf wrote:I think we should have a contest. Preliminary voting round, get a couple finalists and then vote for our favorite out of those 2-3 finalists.
I agree, great idea - let's implement it!

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:02 am
by Robert Gaisek
I think there is a whole bunch of people just waiting to contribute with some ideas.

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:48 pm
by Jonathan Harms
I made a proposal to the Board last night that we move forward with a logo contest. If we get agreement (which I hope we will), all that remains is to work out the details. If/when I hear anything, I or one of the other Board members will post it here.

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:50 pm
by Rick Floyd
Jonathan Harms wrote:I made a proposal to the Board last night that we move forward with a logo contest. If we get agreement (which I hope we will), all that remains is to work out the details. If/when I hear anything, I or one of the other Board members will post it here.
Thanks JBH - definitely the way to go at this point.

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:53 pm
by HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric
Flavio, the last one looks really great !

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:59 pm
by Karl Floitgraf
Jonathan Harms wrote:I made a proposal to the Board last night that we move forward with a logo contest. If we get agreement (which I hope we will), all that remains is to work out the details. If/when I hear anything, I or one of the other Board members will post it here.
Nice JBH. I'm glad we elected you!



And in a strange twist of fate... we will probably need a graphic to promote the contest, lol.

Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:24 pm
by Robert Gaisek
I got one......
Image

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:16 am
by Flavio Badenes
robert gaisek wrote:I got one......
Image
I love it! but I think the skater could be a little bit fatter :-)

Posted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:25 am
by Robert Gaisek
I have used a pic of Mika and he´s not so fat.

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:18 pm
by silvio endrizzi
Rick have a look to this one:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... AD96560SG0

we are at the forefront of juridical matter!!!!

Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:21 pm
by Cyril Schardijn
But since the last logo of Wouter is based on a picture I made, there is no problem. I'm ok with it.

Regarding the logo discussion;

Would it work if the text Issa was placed like it was painted on the road?
With the cone upright and the I as the shade of the cone>
Skater can race over the text.

Logo

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:39 pm
by Greg Fadell
Thanks big time to Rick for giving me the courtesy of asking my permission for the use of my photo.
Also, thanks to JBH for the call.

Yeah, there are many ways of getting around copyright but asking straight out instead of standing behind some legal-ez is the only decent thing to do......

I would have responded to this sooner but i am so busy working trying to make up for all the undelivered prize money from years past that I don't have much time to check this site.

Maybe the ISSA can reclaim those funds from the organizers who they "granted" status to and actually pay for a graphic artist to do a logo. Oh, but I forgot.... once the ISSA waves their mighty sword of approval..... organizers can basically do whatever they want without repercussion.... and everyone should be happy cuz everyone is just "donating" their time and have regular live to attend to.....

Not dissing the time and effort on the artwork that has been presented..... just trying to make two points with one stick.

Whether it's a race, or a logo, or whatever..... and organization can not get above mediocrity on hoping and skipping from one person to another and "having a contest" to get things done..... when there is not compensation or accountability there is "good enough", and "you should be happy"

This could lead into a hundred different discussions..... and I am not "trying to stir the pot"

I spoke to JBH for a bit on things to think about logo wise....
some of those things included :
making sure the logo reproduces at various sizes and dpi's (which includes screen print resolutions)
The "cone" as the "i" in ISSA is totally confusing for a non skater/racer
Be "very" careful on the image of the skater you use- if you use one..... it says more than most believe......

If my shot of Dave is the one you end up using.... go ahead

That and all the money I never got from races are my "donations" to the ISSA....

Can you please send me a receipt for tax purposes...... HAAAAAAAAAA

If you are at all agitated after reading this.....
go here.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6cxNR9ML8k

B to the L to the F'n R

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:36 pm
by Hans Koraeus
Hmm, I see there has been som progress on the ISSA logo examples.

But I still prefer being conservative and stand by the orginal simple one. Even though you can make small changes to make it feel modern. But this idea that "it has to be a slalom skater beacuse otherwise you don't understand what it is" I don't buy. So IKEA needs a chair in their logo. Volvo need a car. And Ericsson needs a telephone in their logo.

For me those who try to do logos like that just look cheap in my eyes.

But it does not mean you can mix it with something else depending on the situation. Mix in a skater if you want for a poster. Add the full name "International Slalom Skateboard Association" if you like under it when needed.

About the name it has always been "International Skateboard Slalom Association" until some "native english speaking" people said it was not correct saying so. I did not agree but after the vote 2007 I now always use "International Slalom Skateboard Association". I think the idea that we are skateboarders first and slalomers second weighs far more heavier than grammatical rules. I regret the change but that's life.

For the ISSA logo I think the same. That the historic part of it being there from the start weighs high towards just wanting a new fancy logo. I.e. "change the one we have but don't change it" ;-) if you know what I mean.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:51 pm
by Michael Stride
Image

Hey, you ripped off my avatar!

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:24 pm
by Robert Gaisek
Finally someone noticed!

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:30 pm
by Flavio Badenes
robert gaisek wrote:Finally someone noticed!
That is not fair, after all that is HIS avatar!!!

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:52 pm
by Robert Gaisek
Ok......shall I bend over and take it?
Maybe I can pay the price by making him a portrait? I´m really good with Paint.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:07 pm
by Michael Stride
Well, I have been described as looking like an oil painting.




Sadly, one done by Jackson Pollock.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:14 pm
by Robert Gaisek
I just talked to Mr Stride´s lawyer and....well........I´m sorry.
I have now changed the picture and will never do such a bad thing again.
Image

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:17 pm
by Flavio Badenes
:-)

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:03 pm
by Rick Floyd
This thread is really rich now....really.

Thanks Greg - just makin' sure.

If ISSA doesn't use my logo (with your picture of Dave), you have my permission to use the general design for the "new BLR" logo - but of course you'll need to get DP on the team then...which would be BAD ASS!

;-)

-RF

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:18 pm
by Robert Gaisek
I still think it would be nice with a new logo.
I still think the "old" one is looking.............old.
I still think it is a good idea to have a contest......at least to see what riders and maybe others think of it.
If we want to be seen out there the logo must show what´s it all about in a clear way.

I´m a rookie in this family and maybe I talk a bit to much, but this is an important question and it can make a difference if we want to have a conversation with the youth.

Enough said from me about this topic.

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 6:47 pm
by Cat Young
The logo definitely needs a face lift.... just as I will pretty soon!