Concern for Integrity: No Prize Money for Winners
Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:17 am
I just read Greg's post in the ISSA logo discussion thread. I had no idea (yeah maybe I'm out of the loop) that there are event winners in collections over podium placements. I never win anything and never expect coin anyway but that's not the point. Podium promises draw riders in many cases. What makes me sick about this is knowing, as the podium winners do, that the winnings help lessen the blow from travel and other expenses anyway - no one is getting rich in slalom skate winnings and I'm sure the winnings only lessen the negative number for the trip.
I also read another thread Donald started. If an event organizer promises a cash or in-kind prize of some kind for certain podium finishers or some other milestone achieved at an event then it (the prize) needs to be paid period; there are no discussions. I could give a rat's ass who you are. Fraud, corruption, tough words maybe not entirely fair for promoters who got in way over their heads and meant well with best intentions but ended up bust. Too effin' bad; pay what you said you would.
This is not about who sanctions it's about business. Someone's word is a bond. ISSA is not a policing organization that I am aware of. I do think however the board will give some thought to the situation and render some comment (perhaps it's a comment not to comment); this issue is too important to all of us to allow this concern to go ignored and racers to go unhappy for a reason like this... Personal bond transcends all other institutions.
When an organizer creates or sponsors an event they accept responsibility and liability to their racers and themselves. No one has a crystal ball right? You could plan the best event on the planet and spend all kinds of money and no one shows and the organizer is holding the bag. This does not make anyone feel good organizers and racers. You the organizer knew however what you were doing and the risks in doing so. regardless of circumstance or poor event management skills, whatever the issue, you made and published a promise. You also shame the those you got to sponsor the event with freebies, marketing materials, swag, etc. and even cash sometimes right?
If there is concern for making the purse then you need to communicate that to the riders BEFORE the event or cancel it. Still shame on you. Alternatively you lock-up prize money from sponsors in advance of registration start and accept all other losses but you have to keep your word; without it a man (woman too) is nothing. So you have no money and no word; you're nothing. I have met a couple unreasonable skaters but I do believe if a sponsor is having a problem in advance of the event and they communicate this or contact the pro's registered in advance then I cannot imagine you as the organizer would be scorned, more likely you will get some support in understanding (maybe you can change the winnings, agree to pay over time, chnage prize type, whatever is better than screwing people) at least and of course some will drop out anyway.
I think of the two Chris's in Chicago. Selfless dudes trying to make it go and always coming up negative in $$. BTW if Chris is one of the "bad" organizers then he has to sleep in the bed he makes.
I certainly do not know who Greg and Donald are talking about. The assumption is also reasonable attempts were made to collect on a promise and some have been turned away or not given something in kind or even some other proposal offered in a hardship case. This uproar doesn't sound hardship case-like to me. It sounds like theft. Yeah theft. When you give something away for nothing in hope of gain elsewhere, even at a loss, it is what it is. A finish dispute or podium placement is not what we're talking about.
I was raised on the lower east side of Manhattan. The alphabet avenues. I'm sure you reading this don't care. You aint' got money but you have your word and that means everything because people will rely on you and you must be reliable; don't give your word if you cannot deliver on it. I would be interested in knowing who the offenders are and they should be able to defend themselves or provide recompense to those winners shorted. There is no defamation. If you promised and did not or could not reasonably deliver then people need to know who you are and why you didn't keep the promise. People have a right to choose the events and organizers they wish to participate with. I would feel like a fool supporting an organizer or team of organizers not knowing they turn on their word. Off the soap box...
LAVIN
yeah I'm out on a limb and don't care
I also read another thread Donald started. If an event organizer promises a cash or in-kind prize of some kind for certain podium finishers or some other milestone achieved at an event then it (the prize) needs to be paid period; there are no discussions. I could give a rat's ass who you are. Fraud, corruption, tough words maybe not entirely fair for promoters who got in way over their heads and meant well with best intentions but ended up bust. Too effin' bad; pay what you said you would.
This is not about who sanctions it's about business. Someone's word is a bond. ISSA is not a policing organization that I am aware of. I do think however the board will give some thought to the situation and render some comment (perhaps it's a comment not to comment); this issue is too important to all of us to allow this concern to go ignored and racers to go unhappy for a reason like this... Personal bond transcends all other institutions.
When an organizer creates or sponsors an event they accept responsibility and liability to their racers and themselves. No one has a crystal ball right? You could plan the best event on the planet and spend all kinds of money and no one shows and the organizer is holding the bag. This does not make anyone feel good organizers and racers. You the organizer knew however what you were doing and the risks in doing so. regardless of circumstance or poor event management skills, whatever the issue, you made and published a promise. You also shame the those you got to sponsor the event with freebies, marketing materials, swag, etc. and even cash sometimes right?
If there is concern for making the purse then you need to communicate that to the riders BEFORE the event or cancel it. Still shame on you. Alternatively you lock-up prize money from sponsors in advance of registration start and accept all other losses but you have to keep your word; without it a man (woman too) is nothing. So you have no money and no word; you're nothing. I have met a couple unreasonable skaters but I do believe if a sponsor is having a problem in advance of the event and they communicate this or contact the pro's registered in advance then I cannot imagine you as the organizer would be scorned, more likely you will get some support in understanding (maybe you can change the winnings, agree to pay over time, chnage prize type, whatever is better than screwing people) at least and of course some will drop out anyway.
I think of the two Chris's in Chicago. Selfless dudes trying to make it go and always coming up negative in $$. BTW if Chris is one of the "bad" organizers then he has to sleep in the bed he makes.
I certainly do not know who Greg and Donald are talking about. The assumption is also reasonable attempts were made to collect on a promise and some have been turned away or not given something in kind or even some other proposal offered in a hardship case. This uproar doesn't sound hardship case-like to me. It sounds like theft. Yeah theft. When you give something away for nothing in hope of gain elsewhere, even at a loss, it is what it is. A finish dispute or podium placement is not what we're talking about.
I was raised on the lower east side of Manhattan. The alphabet avenues. I'm sure you reading this don't care. You aint' got money but you have your word and that means everything because people will rely on you and you must be reliable; don't give your word if you cannot deliver on it. I would be interested in knowing who the offenders are and they should be able to defend themselves or provide recompense to those winners shorted. There is no defamation. If you promised and did not or could not reasonably deliver then people need to know who you are and why you didn't keep the promise. People have a right to choose the events and organizers they wish to participate with. I would feel like a fool supporting an organizer or team of organizers not knowing they turn on their word. Off the soap box...
LAVIN
yeah I'm out on a limb and don't care