Concern for Integrity: No Prize Money for Winners

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Stephen Lavin
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Concern for Integrity: No Prize Money for Winners

Post by Stephen Lavin » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:17 am

I just read Greg's post in the ISSA logo discussion thread. I had no idea (yeah maybe I'm out of the loop) that there are event winners in collections over podium placements. I never win anything and never expect coin anyway but that's not the point. Podium promises draw riders in many cases. What makes me sick about this is knowing, as the podium winners do, that the winnings help lessen the blow from travel and other expenses anyway - no one is getting rich in slalom skate winnings and I'm sure the winnings only lessen the negative number for the trip.

I also read another thread Donald started. If an event organizer promises a cash or in-kind prize of some kind for certain podium finishers or some other milestone achieved at an event then it (the prize) needs to be paid period; there are no discussions. I could give a rat's ass who you are. Fraud, corruption, tough words maybe not entirely fair for promoters who got in way over their heads and meant well with best intentions but ended up bust. Too effin' bad; pay what you said you would.

This is not about who sanctions it's about business. Someone's word is a bond. ISSA is not a policing organization that I am aware of. I do think however the board will give some thought to the situation and render some comment (perhaps it's a comment not to comment); this issue is too important to all of us to allow this concern to go ignored and racers to go unhappy for a reason like this... Personal bond transcends all other institutions.

When an organizer creates or sponsors an event they accept responsibility and liability to their racers and themselves. No one has a crystal ball right? You could plan the best event on the planet and spend all kinds of money and no one shows and the organizer is holding the bag. This does not make anyone feel good organizers and racers. You the organizer knew however what you were doing and the risks in doing so. regardless of circumstance or poor event management skills, whatever the issue, you made and published a promise. You also shame the those you got to sponsor the event with freebies, marketing materials, swag, etc. and even cash sometimes right?

If there is concern for making the purse then you need to communicate that to the riders BEFORE the event or cancel it. Still shame on you. Alternatively you lock-up prize money from sponsors in advance of registration start and accept all other losses but you have to keep your word; without it a man (woman too) is nothing. So you have no money and no word; you're nothing. I have met a couple unreasonable skaters but I do believe if a sponsor is having a problem in advance of the event and they communicate this or contact the pro's registered in advance then I cannot imagine you as the organizer would be scorned, more likely you will get some support in understanding (maybe you can change the winnings, agree to pay over time, chnage prize type, whatever is better than screwing people) at least and of course some will drop out anyway.

I think of the two Chris's in Chicago. Selfless dudes trying to make it go and always coming up negative in $$. BTW if Chris is one of the "bad" organizers then he has to sleep in the bed he makes.

I certainly do not know who Greg and Donald are talking about. The assumption is also reasonable attempts were made to collect on a promise and some have been turned away or not given something in kind or even some other proposal offered in a hardship case. This uproar doesn't sound hardship case-like to me. It sounds like theft. Yeah theft. When you give something away for nothing in hope of gain elsewhere, even at a loss, it is what it is. A finish dispute or podium placement is not what we're talking about.

I was raised on the lower east side of Manhattan. The alphabet avenues. I'm sure you reading this don't care. You aint' got money but you have your word and that means everything because people will rely on you and you must be reliable; don't give your word if you cannot deliver on it. I would be interested in knowing who the offenders are and they should be able to defend themselves or provide recompense to those winners shorted. There is no defamation. If you promised and did not or could not reasonably deliver then people need to know who you are and why you didn't keep the promise. People have a right to choose the events and organizers they wish to participate with. I would feel like a fool supporting an organizer or team of organizers not knowing they turn on their word. Off the soap box...

LAVIN
yeah I'm out on a limb and don't care
LAVIN

Michael Stride
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Post by Michael Stride » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:41 pm

I have raced 'Pro' ever since I won an Am World event...

I have dominated the middle and the bottom of the field for a few years.

Last year I managed to get through a few rounds in Paris, to be drawn against Chris Hart. He fell in an earlier round, so pulled out, putting me in the prize money for the first time.

I dont care that I 'only' won 70 Euros. (my entry cost more...)

But what I do care about was that I was handed my big cheque, AND the cash in an Envelope there and then.

I felt so proud. Honestly, I was teased by my friends as I didnt let go of my big cheque for ages!!! The cash came in handy...I bought Ritchy and Maria dinner in Bruxelles.


Thats how it should be done. Simple as that. thanks Jani and the crew in Paris, as when my life flashes before me, that feeling of winning will be where I pause for a second.

Rick Floyd
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Post by Rick Floyd » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:06 pm

That does it - I'm not turning PRO this year...unless it's with Fullbag, where the people are so good you don't CARE about the money! ;-)

-RF

PS - nice work SL, I agree completely.
"All the money in the world can not buy sharing the excitement of life with other people. Nothing else matters."

- Jason Mitchell (Criddlezine Interview)

Ramón Königshausen
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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:00 am

It happend to me a couple of times that there was not no prize money but not as much as promised prize money.

The name it out:

Hannover 2007 (Major that year!)

I got two 2nd places and a 7th which put me in 2nd place overall (Luca Giammarco was 1st, Chris Barker, who came all the way from Colorado, was 3rd). There was "some" overall prize money announced. After the awards were over (I'm not using the expression "prize ceremony") we were standing there with none of the promised prize money. So the three of us (Luca, Cbark and I are standing there with out trophies, puzzled, one of us is saying "No money?" So we go over to Claude (who was the ISSA President back then) and ask him what to do.
Turns out the four of us confront Detlef and after a little talking we find out that the budget did not work our but we can see and look what "is left". So he went and got "what was left".

i.e. We ended up

1st Luca €300
2nd Me €200
3rd Cbark €100

It is to mention, that in the firs year 2005 Detlef put up his race, there was enough prize money. He could run the event as part of a big tradeshow event. Which later on in 2006 and 2007 was cancelled on short notice and so he had to find a way to still run the event. Last year 2008, he was going to put up the Euros but then again, the Expo would not take place and we had to cancel and move the Euros on a very short notice so that people who had already booked their flight lost money (one of them Luca Giammarco, another Janis Kuzmins).

-----


I must have mentioned this idea earlier in another discussion but let me bring it up again:

As the IGSA Downhill World Cups require an event/organizer fee on order to become a World Cup event, it is also some kind of insurance that is paid to the Association.

I'd like to have Marcus Rietema explain the concept of this in here, please.


rmn
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Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Ramón Königshausen
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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:01 am

Marcus?


rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

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