More Tight racing in 2003

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Brian Morris
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Post by Brian Morris » Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:22 pm

Anyone who can run 5.5" ON CENTER at speed is a hot rider. I doubt I could do it. TK
Big ups to Vlad, Noah, UR13, Tway who ripped it beyond belief at the NJ TS race. They chewed up the 5.5 spit it out, and asked for seconds.
said 6.0 feet, but not many people would be able to make that.
John,
6.0 feet isn't that tight. Last September was the first time I ever road a slalom board, the course I rode was lots of 6ft with offsets, set by Noah and UR13. I think if a newbie can make a 6ft course at speed after a few tries, than a slalom vet shouldn't have a problem with a little practice.
On 2003-01-06 16:08, Wesley Tucker wrote:
Hans, I GOT the right equipment to wiggle!
Whenever I pull it out, women point and yell, "ICK! . . . ooh, and it's all 'cut away' too!"

(Nothing like a little gentile humor to spice up a languid afternoon I always say!)
Oh man Wes, thats just horrible...:smile:

"Brain"

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Post by John Gilmour » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:49 am

is that 6.0 center to center or 6.0 cone edge to cone edge?

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Post by Brian Morris » Tue Jan 07, 2003 2:18 am

On 2003-01-06 19:49, John Gilmour wrote:
is that 6.0 center to center or 6.0 cone edge to cone edge?
When I set 6' courses when I practice, I don't use cones cause I'm a broke college kid. I put plaster in some SOLO cups and set them up. They're about 1/2 the size of a turner cone. So I set up 6' edge to edge. I don't know what UR13 and Noah set, they said 6'.

"Brain"

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Post by Terry Kirby » Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:29 am

Brain, I might have some orange soccer cones with the bases cut off you can have. TK

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Post by Brian Morris » Tue Jan 07, 2003 3:41 am

Thanks alot TK!!!!

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:08 am

Damn it, I just got here after a busy day at work. Sorry, I don't even have enough time to read all the posts.

I will get back to this (intersting?) TS discussions after the East Coast Expression Session.

Andy, Jack - nothing personal (on this forum). :smile: Politics behind your courses summed up in one sentence: "good looks" on TV. Politics behind Brian Parson's courses: accommodate everyone form beginner to expert. I have nothing against anyone's policies nor am I proposing to change the format of the existing competitions/series.

My idea is to have super technical TS on the side of the regular competition for the few interested skaters. That is all.

Sorry if I missed anything, I gotta go pack. CMC might give me a lesson of proper shoulder position; hopefully I'll get my shoulders moving the right way for the upcoming longboard and Super Gee-A-triplle-S-y and Downhilly courses next season!


John, see you in Vermont.

DA DALV 30-5.5ft-cones on flat challenge is on. I can't wait.

Cheers.

Vlad/out on vacation.

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Post by Michael Dong » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:14 am

Brian,

I think that when TK said "at speed" he means in the range of 20 to 25mph. If you are on a decent slope, 5.5ft will cause most humans to have a major screaming conegasm, spraying cones everywhere. I think I remember calculating the 100 cone world record and it was something like 20.05 mph at 6ft centers. 5.5ft centers at that speed is inhuman (5.35 cones/sec). But I do think 5.5ft on a flatter surface where you generate your own speed would be doable, fun and look fast as hell running somewhere around 4 cones per second. For Vlad's Russian Gauntlet (30 cones, 5.5ft centers), 4 cones per sec would be 7.5 sec (14.5mph avg speed)running time, so here is the first mark to beat.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:18 am

I'm sorry, I read some of the posts after all. This is fun! With regard to Gilmour's "2003-01-06 03:29" post: Gilmour, you are loved even more now.

Leitah.

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Post by John Gilmour » Tue Jan 07, 2003 5:42 am

Can you tell that I get cranky when I'm tired?

It is interesting to see this thread literally take off.

over 3 pages in less than 20 hours. Many page views. Perhaps there is demand for tighter slalom than "slalom".

I do think that there is a biomechanical relationship here in cone width spacing, pitch of the hill, and wheelbase- to optimize the set up for maximum speed and CPS. And I am talking about a technical course not just straights.

You'll note that many racers are within 100ths or tenths of each other for a relatively long course.

Because we are rolling and not climbing- fat percentage, and body type don't really play in much. You'll see a Well fed practiced Arab to extremely well against a Lean Michael Breem. The power to weight ratio for human muscle tissue is likely very consistent. Having better power to weight ratio is achieveable and desireable- but who wants to work that hard :wink:.

So our power to weight ratio is pretty much equal.

So now on to Transmissions. The Tranny is the wheelbase and truck geometry of the deck as well as the flex of the deck that translates our upper body movement into forces that turn our wheels with each pump.

Clearly it is important to have the right gearing to be successful in a race- especially if the power to weight ratios are similar.

The wheels are our tires and we - for the last season have mostly been running on Avalons so this is pretty equivalent. if not we were using laCostas or stingers. And of course Flashbacks as well.

So we are seeing development in the transmissions the most active at this time. truck manufacturers and Deck manufacturers.

It is all so interesting. And really so much like car Racing that I have dubbed the sport- poor man's formula one-

I'm offline for a while as I also try to head to ECES- but I do need a ride in a snow worthy car. Anytakers?- I'm covering gas and tolls and lunch for the way up there.
I would like to go up any time after Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday is good also.

Email me a private message through slalomskateboarder.com as my yahoo email is always full.

Eric Groff
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Post by Eric Groff » Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:09 am

Might I just join in here! Let me Califactecate this here conversation, Troy I would love for you and Vlad to come out and race us California boys, Gilmour has tried and failed whos next? John when you say that I have calicentricated NCDSA what the f##k has that place been for the last year? A bunch of Least Coasters (I like that one it came from one of the east coast guys, he is ashamed of living where he does).

Califacts
How many people that live outside of California have won in California?
How many people that live outside of California have won outside of California

Or should I just say with the exception of 1 or 2 races Californians win everything and thats a fact!

John I spoke with somebody that was present this past weekend in florida and I said "Gilmours pretty fast isn't he?" his reply was "yeah he looks fast but he plows cones over", Yeah anybody can look fast but can you do it without hitting cones.

John as for our begineer courses out here in California you have lost on everything, TS,GS,Hybrid whats your excuse, beat by Californians. SSS we practice everything and we are prepared to beat anybody anytime anywhere, Why dont you grab your 8 fastest east coast professional friends and we can do a little side pot at the next major race, yeah like yer new pals in Florida, bring it on, you can set up yer professional courses and we will set up our begineer courses our 8 agaist your 8, heck our 8 isnt even the best in California, but you can have whatever 8 you want to chose along the whole eastern seaboard, florida to maine, actually the 8 guys you are gonna race here live within a 30 mile radius. hey John we will even let you have Chaput since he was originally from the east coast, we can total the points at the end of the day.

This converstaion has gone on for 3 Fuckin pages, my name has been brought up and I wasnt even here, Its so fun to watch east coasters fight over what the californians are doing. And what they are doing is putting on Races, Winning Races, Not only in California but every where else they go.

I love being part of the winning team!

Arab

PS SSS practiced 6ft centers on a hill we useally run 40+mph GS/Super G on in anticipation of a true TS race at La Costa, Jack did what he had to do to accomodate the racers, I dont think there was maybe 20 people in that field that could have run 6 ft down La Costa, TS looks great on Flat, but looks really stupid on a hill with to much speed. SSS we do it everywhere because we can.

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Post by Eric Groff » Wed Jan 08, 2003 5:13 am

Oh and did I mention about the Californians that go out of state to put on races,
Kona,Albkurky,Colo,Oregan,W.Va. and win!

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Post by Michael Dong » Wed Jan 08, 2003 10:26 am

Well, I tried Vlad's 5.5ft, 30 cone flat course tonight. First off, I think that a single push with 5 meters before the first cone sucks. It should be like cyberslalom where you can push as much as you want from 5 meters back, otherwise its just too slow (or maybe its just that I'm too slow).

I tried this after doing an hour of cyberslalom. I only got one clean run and I forgot to reset the Tway timer so I didn't get a time for it. The next cleanest time was 8.002 sec with 2 cones down. My setup was a Roe Bullet with PVD trucks and I shortened my wheelbase by 1" from the cyberslalom setup and swapped out the flashbacks for cambrias. I immediately noticed that the board was HARDER to turn. It felt almost like I had less leverage. Are there any secrets here for tight slalom board setup - wider trucks? Super short wheelbase? Any words of wisdom from Mr. Gilmour?

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Post by Eric Groff » Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:19 pm

Hey Michael,
You cant get those PVD's adjusted to turn?
The 1 push thing seems alittle silly, I bet even I could make it through a 1 meter course with 1 push, SSS ran 3 courses yesterday,
1. 30 cones or so 6.5 straight, unlimited push, we all pretty much hit it at full speed, David Carrasco was smoking second time out in 20+ years.
2. 30 cones or so 6.0 with small offsets nothing more then 6 inches I would guess, unlimited push, We all hit it at full speed, Myself if I went into it with about 1 or to less pushes I would run it cleaner(I'm getting about 10-15 pushes into it)
3. 30 cones or so 6.0 straight, unlimited push, I love running 6.0 straight, it is good exercise and just about the right length to make it challangeing at speed.

6.0 can be diffecult on steeper hills with unlimited push for some people, thats why we ride it everywhere so we are prepared come race day.

Anybody want to take the SSS challange?

30 cones 6' centers unlimited push on any grade, .10 penlty per cone Timer starts at first cone ends at last. Whos the fastest cone to cone guy around?

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Post by Adam Trahan » Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:46 pm

Eric,

I really don't understand you. When I try to, I think of how cool you are in person, then I think of the psychology books that I want to reference...

You get bannished from NCDSA by Adam N and when you get re-instated, you trash your fellow slalom skaters and not Adam N, the guy who "snuffed" you out. What in the hell is wrong with you? Did you forget something?

An old punk rocker like you?

You bow to the man, I don't get it at all.

You are stuck in California in more ways than one. California has absolutely nothing to do with anything, free thinking is everything Eric. Grow up.

Talk smak? Cool, whatever.

Why don't you let your racing speak for itself. Statistics can be twisted any way you want. I like reading what you say, but I'm very tired of your bullshit online Eric. Chill out and be a part of the community, don't trash it.

I apologize to the rest of you for going off topic but Groff is so far out of line...

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Post by Eric Groff » Wed Jan 08, 2003 7:31 pm

Adam,
Start from the begining of this thread, Its eastcoasters fighting about what Californians are doing, Its all right there on your website, did you miss it? I only defend those I ride with when people start bashing them. Its all right here on your website did you miss it, go back and read it again, Like I said this thread was 3 pages old before I showed up to set the record straight, did you miss that it was on your website right here! Tell me where I was wrong? could you please point out where I was wrong in defending my friends when others are bashing them.

California Begineers! Step up or shut up!
Arab taking over NCDSA, I'll take over this place next because it has turned into the East Coast Slalom Site, Cater to whoever you want Adam, I dont! I tell it like it is, sorry if the truth hurts. I didnt californicate anything on this thread, it was done by the others long before I got here, I just came to set the record straight, if you have any other facts to displace mine feel free to try.

People dont like it when somebody steps on their toes with the truth!

Facts dont lie only those that have no facts lie!

Give me facts not opinions on this matter.

Arab

Adam "chill out and be a part of the community" Why dont you use those same words for John Gilmour who came on your site and bashed the communtiy that is doin something for slalom.

Adam take time to see the whole picture, read all the words, remeber 3 pages of BS before I got here to set the record straight.

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Post by Eric Groff » Wed Jan 08, 2003 7:37 pm

Adam "chill out and be a part of the community" Why dont you use those same words for GBJ when he threatened John Gilmour

Is there alittle East Coast Bias here Adam, Who you suckin up to! the people that are doing something for the slalom community or the people that are fighting over what the people that are helping the slalom community are doing.

maybe you should get your prioritys straight and do something for the slalom community instaed of defending those that are bashing it.

Arab

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Post by Mike Gorman » Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:32 pm

I take exception to Vlad's statement that we won't like tight when we see it, and that the course setting is a reflection of the participant's desire. We are the ones asking for tight! And trust me, a lot of courses we ran this year were NOT a relection of the participant's desire. That's why you will some West coast outlaw tight this year. And it won't be on flat ground, and it won't be beginner courses, and nobody will be stuffing 36 inchers through it either. We practice tight and we practice GS, but up until now we haven't been setting the courses.
That might be about to change.

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Post by Adam Trahan » Wed Jan 08, 2003 8:35 pm

Eric,

You got snuffed, then you come back with renewed vigor and it is pointed at the people in the community. You side step this and I see it as "bowing to the man" You side step this and pound the community with your tyranical approach.

I don't look at this community like East coast vs California or anyone. I want to see it as a INTERNATIONAL community. Not a specific geographical web site.

Fortunately, I am from Arizona. I am proud of where I am from but in the scheme of things, all I want, and I can only speak for myself, is to be a part of this International community.

I will speak to you with the same value that I speak with GBJ or anyone else. I'm all about free speach, I'm all about having you say what you want BUT I believe you are on a "high" centered around yourself and you are using slalom skateboarding as your soap box.

http://www.slalomskateboarder.com is a communty based site. I gathered us together at this web site with the help from people accross the globe. This is my contribution and alone it speaks for itself. I am not better than you nor do I look at competition like you do. I strive to make good choices and am comfortable with who I am.

You are a racer who has valuable information to offer the communty but you mess it up with your attitude. Sure, you have a lot of friends, yes, you are on the "winning" team and most importantly, you have "heart" but are you really doing your part? Are you doing the best job that you can do?

I don't think so.

I think you can do better than some sarcastic self centered act. Try being who you are in person. EVERYONE will attest that you are a nice guy in person, almost everyone will attest that you aren't online.

Best Regards to you Eric Groff, I truly mean that.

From the land of "Bow to no man"

Have a nice day.

adam trahan

Eric Groff
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Post by Eric Groff » Wed Jan 08, 2003 9:06 pm

"You got snuffed, then you come back with renewed vigor and it is pointed at the people in the community. You side step this and I see it as "bowing to the man" You side step this and pound the community with your tyranical approach. "

Could you explain what your saying here?

"I don't look at this community like East coast vs California or anyone. I want to see it as a INTERNATIONAL community. Not a specific geographical web site."

If this is the case then why dont you tell YOUR moderator of this forum not to californicate it, then you wont need me to step in and tell it like it is!

See Adam its a 2 way street and at this point you are only playing on one side, Why have you chosen to admonish me for telling the facts, and not those that have attacked the people who are doing something about slalom.

Play by our rules Adam not yours!

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Post by Brian Morris » Thu Jan 09, 2003 12:54 am

Arab,

This thread is about Tight Slalom in the new season. Not about how you think California skaters are better than East Coast skaters, not about Gilmore losing or wining on Cali courses. Its not about East Coast/West Coast, its about slalom. So I don't understand what the nonstop bitch fest has to be about?
I think your a cool guy,and I have alot of respect for you. You do alot for slalom and for skateboarding in general, and I can't wait for the chance to skate with you and learn from you because I know you have alot to teach. I know you'll most likely flame me, and just write me off as another East Coast kid who hasn't done as much for slalom as most California residents have, but jeez man give it a rest.

"Brain"

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Thu Jan 09, 2003 1:16 am

Eric, you shouldn't take Adams comment as anything else than his personal. I.e. a punch as good as anyones in this matter. So you should not demand of him to be neutral unless he is speaking as moderator. But I agree it is a problem to know weather it was intended from his part to speak as moderator or personal. I think personally that unless he uses the Moderator login he is speaking only for himself.

Me as an outsider on this subject, I don't think anyone is out of line so far. A little heat in the discussions we must be able to accept. And hopefully most of us will be able to judge it for what it is anyway, "gorilla talk".

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Post by Adam Trahan » Thu Jan 09, 2003 5:19 pm

Thanks Hans, you pretty much summed it up.

I like Eric Groff, I spoke in behalf of Eric when he was banned and I invited him here and that invitation still to this moment stands.

Editing content is not my cup of tea, it is hard enough to get all of us to use our own names...

On any account, I simply wish that Eric would not DRILL us (he does not do this all the time) on the California vs. the world subject, that's it.

I am just a guy who wants to be a part of this community of racers, I don't want to snuff anyone out and I won't.

Thanks again Hans.

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Post by Eric Groff » Thu Jan 09, 2003 8:16 pm

Adam again I beleive you have failed to read all the post on the tight slalom subject, Remember, this thread was 3 pages long before I showed up, People were fighting about what the Californians are doing, Telling the Slalom Community that The Californians are a bunch of begineers so on and so fourth. Take the time to read the whole thread and you will see the writing on the wall. When I showed up the graffiti paint was already dry, I just broke out my can and sprayed over their graffiti.

Call it what you want but rememeber 3 pages whining about Californians and ME before my first post, I simply offered a challange to those that offended me and my friends.

Adam dont make yourself look like Brady over on NCDSA, Get the whole picture befor you come down on me, Get the Clue?.

Arab

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Post by Adam Trahan » Thu Jan 09, 2003 10:51 pm

Eric,

I get the clue.

I don't think California needs defending by anyone, including you.

I am guilty of not reading the whole thread, I am guilty of loosing my temper and my humor although I understand why I lost it...

I don't know why I feel that I have to "cure" your post's attitude, maybe you don't want to change how you are perceived online. I only know that you write your opinion online at this site and a different skateboard site and you aggrivate a lot of people AND make a lot of people laugh. I have laughed so many times from your posts, more than I have been pissed. This is not about me not liking you, it's about our behavior online.

So, I will go back to being behind the screen on this subject, my appologies ARAB for trying to get you to see things my way. I mean no sarcasm, just pure and simple truth.

I never once have doubted what you do for slalom skateboarding in the REAL world where things really matter.

We should meet at the new Pipeline skatepark one time before or after a race and skate, I think I can give you a good run there.

Peace man.

adam

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I'm the one in the yellow flyaway...

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Post by Glenn S » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:12 am

Hans,
Great Post.

I suggest that someone with good course knowledge start a new "Topic" and let East Coast, West Coast, Europe, and the rest of the slalom world define the disciplines here and now in 2003 so that “all” slalom skaters have something to go by.

I say, don’t let just Andy and his group decide this. Let the slalom “world” define the disciplines here and now and petition that the USSSF accept these definitions, or that any race organizers around the world accept them too. If we are the current world of slalomers here on this fourm, then we should set the rules so that we are not confused about discipline definitions.

Could someone post what the ISSA had done in regards to this? Or is there a place on the web to view Hans is talking about?
Glenn


On 2003-01-06 11:56, Hans Koraeus wrote:
This discussion is the main reason why ISSA (International Skateboard Slalom Association) was created many, many years ago. But then again when did we humans learn from our history. Sure the current ISSA rules could need to be overlooked again but the purpose stays the same. There is a need for all sports to define their discipline(s).
Otherwise it's bound to lead to misunderstandings.

It's always up to organizers to decide what rules to use but we could help them/us with a setup of standardized rules and disciplines. That is what ISSA did. This is a huge but important task but this topic is not the place to go further into that. That will need a section of it's own in this forum.

There is already some confusion regarding european discipline names and the one used in the states. And apparently inside the states as well. It's maybe time to put all our forces together and evolve the current ISSA rules with the current american reality whatever it may be.

We all wish to be able to know what kind of competition and disciplines that awaits us before going to a contest. But without a documentation of what the discipline names mean they won't mean anything. They will be interpreted differently by each person anyway.

There are many possible disciplines in skateboard slalom. Often some of them are more suitable to us and our equipment than others. Some are in our liking more than others. Here we will always have different personal views. This is normal. But when we are talking about our sport terms there shouldn't be.

Let's make history! This is the forum where it could be done. Let's join our forces into clarifying our sport for ourselves.

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Post by Michael Dong » Fri Jan 10, 2003 4:28 am

Arab,

What is the time to shoot for in the SSS challenge?

Michael

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Post by Richy Carrasco » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:19 am

The bottom line is We like to train on hills!Big hills big GS ,Moderate slopes with decent asphalt full speed tight is a adrenaline rush and something we hope to see in future races!

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Post by Eric Groff » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:20 am

M. Dong
At this point there is no time, but there is a Challange.
30 cones 6' centers, Timed from first to last cone, unlimited push.
Same goes for 7', 8' centers and so on.
Start clockin times.
Any grade of hill, lets just see whos doin what on what,
Whos the fastest cone to cone guy around, NO STOP WATCHES though, If its gonna be real then timers need to be used.

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Post by Eric Groff » Fri Jan 10, 2003 11:24 am

I have a neat little device that measures degrees I got at Home Depot for about $9.00

Its a good way to a see what the pitch of a hill is and might contribute to the cause just for referance purposes.

I'll bring it along when we run some times just for that purpose.

But I dont think pitch/grade is relevent, run as steep as you want or need, to go as fast as you can.

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Post by Simon Levene » Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:40 pm

I'm re-posting this from NCDSA, just to give you guys an idea of what to shoot at for a 30 cone course.

1985 - 22 cones (no room for more on slope), 5.5' apart, steep local spot (now sadly gone), electronic timing (just before 1st cone and after last), 3 pushes (no space for more) - my best 3.82 seconds. Easy sub 3.9.

30 cones, same place and conditions with cones 23 - 30 onto flat then very very slight uphill - 5.28 seconds.

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Post by Andy Bittner » Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:09 pm

That's just %*%#!^ NUTS! Now I remember why you were the slalomer I had as my "mark", back in the late-80s! Of course, when I look at photos from back then, it looks like your physical build has changed completely. Do you think you could still run times like that?

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Post by Simon Levene » Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:21 pm

Andy,

I don't know. But, it's not so hard to match those times as its downhill. Pump acceleration is the hard thing which I seem to have lost a lot of. That particular spot had a very slow start so I was getting to max speed by about cone 15. Easily 6+ cones per second after cone 15. If the local authority would resurface the spot it would be great. It was the only place I ever practiced downhill. BTW - I could run 5.5' flatland almost as fast. In fact, terminal speed on a long, flat, straight course is little different. I could probably probably pump one of those faster than someone push a board next to me, even now (as long as the old lungs held out!).

This comes back to TK's question on NCDSA ...
'Also To the guys who raced in the 70's and 80's (Evans, Ransom,Dunn, Hester, Simon, kimbal etc) Has the performance level increased from then to now?'

I reckon that I can now run at no more than 80% of my peak. More practice than zero would help of course. Fitness and desire is a problem. I was 21 when I ran those times and probably maintained or increased that level of performance until I was about 27. Then I just didn't bother to slalom anymore.

I don't believe the performance level has increased. There aren't that many fast younger slalomers coming up (not that I've seen anyway). I comes down to the skating environment you grow up with. Slalom was just a standard part of one's repertoire back in the day, and was practiced all of the time. Young skaters don't ride like that anymore.

Although, saying that, some tighter offset courses must be faster because of the grip levels of the new wheels e.g. Cambrias.

I do believe that the FCR style racing is faster than it would have been as wheel technology is so much better now. I don't believe that deck performance is much better, just better suited to more open courses i.e. longer/fatter decks.

Tight straight downhill slalom times wouldn't be much different as it's more down to the riders ability i.e. max speed was always available to the rider.

I love riding straight downhill courses!

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Post by John Gilmour » Mon Jan 13, 2003 1:46 am

Just so no one gets offended- I want to make it perfectly clear that I feel Ransom and Chicken are excellent racers- I have never raced them head to head...but I don't have to because of the clock.

On a GS course in the beginning of the FCR season in San Fran- Ransom simply blew every racer out of the water in the GS. No one was even close. It was single track and there were some wind conditions- but after Ransom got on some Avalons- he bettered his time by an unhead of amount.

I ended up running my Turner Summer Ski Full nose in that event as I never felt comfortable with the Turner Downhill Hybrids.

Interesting to note as that was a course that required a lot of skill- the times got more spread out. You saw Ransom putting some distance between himself and lesser skilled racers.

On a simpler course- one with less speed- it is likely that rest of the racers would have come closer to Charlie's time. Charlie would not have been able to demonstrate his skill at running fast GS courses.

In terms of the California Beginner courses- realistically a course that has to meet the criteria to be able to be run by girls under 15 - without a high percentage of them DQ'ing-simply is by definition, an easy course.

I read in Skateboarder mag about so many great California races. I want to see some screaming fast racing.

I also want to see a type of racing done that can be accessible to all racers from all continients. That means that the courses should be representitive of what could be run in other areas. Yes, in California, you have roads that are super wide with good surface and pitch and unfortunately these roads aren't accessible for all racers. I would still like to see wide open racing done in California, but at the same time I would like to see courses set at "title" races to be representitive of what is possible in other areas of the World.

I mean - if no one but California can practice it, for lack of terrain (Ie. 6 lane wide roads with no crown and no traffic), then it is more a California type event.

That is not to say we can't have fast racing.....we can have fast GS but perhaps at some races it should be limited in width.

The San Fran Battle by the Bay GS race was done on a narrow road with lots of pitch. Any country or state with a wide steep road could practice this type of slalom.

Slalom with gates under 5 foot on center is limited to flatland slalom (unless you want to ride a 8 inch wheelbase deck- not fun).

6 foot on center is also very tight still for the skill level of the slalomers we have today. I would not set a course in competition with 6 foot gates at this point in the sport- unless I were setting a course in England where flatland is so strong.

The 'Da Farm 2 race had a TS on a steep grade that had gates no tighter than 7.5 foot on center- with possible exception for the final 4 gates which I think were 7 foot on center. I don't think any children entered that race, and it was a high intermediate level course. Setting a course with a higher difficulty level let the spectators differentiate between the racers.

Not all the racers were within .2 seconds of each other....looking virtually idential through the course. In this race there were wide spreads in times- different "attack Strategies " by the racers in regards to approaching the course, readily identifiable different styles. I thought it was very interesting to watch as did many of the spectators who were not slalomers.

My hope was that it would showcase TS racing as a skilled
sport- and perhaps motivate or inspire a few racers to further their skills or - hopefully to make someone want to try our sport and get hooked. It was very interesting to see the expressions on some of the "non skater neighbors" who were spectating when I told them that I had been skating slalom for 28 years and then countered with Tway, Vlad, Troy, Noah, Ur13 had been slaloming for less than 2 years and that a person could develop this skill in a short period of time.

I was hoping to inspire people to try to learn something that looks "impossible" and impressive- and I am sure that setting a course that let the racers show what was possible had a part in that. If I had set a course with 10 foot gates I don't think we would have held the spectators intense attention for as long (this is based on what made spectators hang around in Memorial Drive in Boston on a course area that is set regularly every Sunday).

In terms of the courses- I have skated SSS courses (1999 Banks and the oil drilling spot) and I think that SSS has in part gotten so good because they have set challenging courses during practice. SSS is certainly ready for some high level courses and I am sure that the Morro Bay crew is ready for some more challenging courses as well as are the Badlanders.

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Post by Henry Julier » Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:15 am

Well, I would have to say that I think more technical courses, tight or gs, are more fun and allow me to improve faster, so i'm all for them. Speed is last on my list really- if I wanted to go 35 miles per hour just for the sake of going fast I would hop on my bike or maybe go automobiling.

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Post by Richy Carrasco » Mon Jan 13, 2003 8:43 am

JG- Your right when you came out last time to ride in OC,we were all just getting started and with time and races we have progressed in our practice of racing. last summer we had a hill that was about 3oo yrds long with about 35mph finish brand new asphalt we named the Black Hole!We ran super G, Hybrid top to Super G finish,Evans set a TS full speed course! We run everything and are up for racing anything fast! SSS is all about the racing crew!

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Post by Brian Morris » Mon Jan 13, 2003 6:18 pm

I don't like sick speed when I skate slalom. I like a mild hill or slope when i set a course, because I like to skate really tight courses, tight offsets, ect. I like to set a course with all one distance between cones, 6' is what I prefer, when I started to slalom I thought 6' was standard Tight Slalom.

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Post by Eric Groff » Tue Jan 14, 2003 7:18 am

John, great reply, a universal international reply, of course, only my opinion.

Thank you for sharing yours.

Arab

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Post by Mark McCree » Wed Jan 15, 2003 4:39 am

Well, Well, Well, I see the climate here is as frigid as in NCDSA-ville.

The course issue is valid. PRO'S should be TESTED. Not just for speed, but for technical ability.

MORO was a speed fest, Not a technically challenging venue.

And this East coast-West coast thing has been going on since before time- I like it- it gives the racers more to chew on.

I can't wait to bow to the GREAT WHITE ARAB, LOL.

I will expect him to do the same to me when I beat him. And the more races we have- the more he will be beat. The more I will be beat. And on-and on- and on-on-on.

Get used to it.

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Post by Mark McCree » Wed Jan 15, 2003 4:50 am

Any way, My post picture is better than Eric's.

So there.

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Post by John Gilmour » Wed Jan 15, 2003 5:50 am

So with all this talk about racing I am curious as to what distances people would like to see in tight slalom.

Please post what you are running and also which spacings allow you to generate + sustain the most speed.

Also please make this relevant to TS board lengths. Ie. saying that you like to run x.0 foot centers on your 42 inch deck will should not be considered TS.

I have run cone distances of 6 foot but I do feel that the speeds hit are lessened with such tight spacing- at least for the current practice levels. In 'da farm 2 I set spacing no tighter than 7.5 foot centers with the exception of the final 4 gates which were 7 foot.

In practice I'll set things a little closer. But I don't want to have to go to a narrow width truck as I feel that would be speed limiting in terms of handling offsets at speed.

And please tell me distances using standard cones and actually measure the CENTER to Center distances. No "guesstimates". Many a time I hear people tell me that they run 6 foot centers only to find that they are not.

Also tell me what types of spacing and offsets one might find in one of your courses.

S0 lets get an idea from some regional clubs.

SSS?
MB?
San Fran?
Mississippi?
Florida?
New Hampshire?
Connecticut?
New Jersey?
New York?
Massachusetts?
Washington DC?
New Mexico?
Seattle?
Portland?
Chicago?
Rhode Island?
Vermont?
West Virginia?
Georgia?
France?
Germany?
England?
Australia?
Trinidad?
Switzerland?
Sweden?
Czech Republic?
Estonia?
Latvia?
Russia?

etc.

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Post by Brian Morris » Wed Jan 15, 2003 6:52 am

John,
I don't really thing New Jersey has a regional club. In fact the only racers I know of in Jersey are Noah and I.

As for cone spacings, this is what I do you determine the exact distance. Remember I use Solo Cups, I put one cup down, count off 6 paces (size 12 foot) Place another cup slightly behind my toe and mark it. I either set a straight course, or I just walk and not pay attention to where I place cones, so it usually ends up being some nice offsets and curves. Thats how I practice.

Brian

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Post by Terry Kirby » Wed Jan 15, 2003 6:07 pm

For me slalom has to be about speed. Slow tech courses are ok for drill work but for pure exhilaration nothing beats flying down a course driving your line and contorting your body to make a gate. The problem is its hard to find hills that accomodate this. The best courses of the year for me were always the fastest ones. I think most other fcr racers will agree. TK

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Post by John Gilmour » Thu Jan 16, 2003 1:37 am

So what distances do you guys think are the fastest/most exciting to race and watch?

Also at what steepness do people think is too steep for TS? Lets take Avila beach as one extreme and Battle by the Bay "hybrid" as another.

interesting to note that the steepness of teh hill doesn't always have an exact indicator of speed. To be sure a 90 degree ppitch is fast- but in some degrees of steepness the surface takes a lot or the responsibility in provideing "roll".

for Instance Catalina was not particularly steep but the surface had fast "Roll". Morro Bay's surface does not have fast "roll".

In Europe the Trocadero surface had incredible "roll" when I skated there in 1990 and 1995.

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Post by Richy Carrasco » Fri Jan 17, 2003 4:56 am

Catalina had a good element of speed and reflex twitching! The main reason I brought up the subject is to talk about having more variety at the races!!!!!!!!Hybrid is fun,But just that! Big GS is a rush! and full speed tight is The rad ! On setting courses: Your all right! Every hill is different! The cones need to be set and tested! (Fine Tuned) Then its on!

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Post by Claude Regnier » Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:36 am

I agree with Richy on the setting then tweaking them to make them better.

Bring cones in and out in order to accelerate where possible and maitain your speed and increase it through the next series and so on.

I liked the SF hybrid course Sundays was Okay but I had never ridden anything like that. La Costa, Morro and Avila were too loose and the top section just don't belong in those types of races.

The wide offsets are more suited to a long drawn out SGS which of course I have never ridden either.

5'5" OC to 9 (with offsets) can be run on most types of terrain. Controlling speed and Braking for cones or sections are two seperate skills and we should watch, where and how they are used.

TS - I think should be defined by acceleration and control skating. Not braking no major offsets. The offset should be placed in as close an area to allow the racer to race it like an extended line a reach not a turn.

I hope some of this makes sense to one of you.

EH!

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Post by Richy Carrasco » Wed Jan 22, 2003 3:37 am

The SSS crew runs tight every week! 6.5 average on moderate hills- We also run GS and hybrid to be well rounded in all phases of racing! Every one of us has quivers. I think alot of racers should also be rounded so that when a good TS course is run at an event, Organizers dont need to see cone carnage and whiners.

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Post by Eric Groff » Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:36 am

Rich-You will always see carnage and whining if I'm racing, I cant wait til JPL so I can change the course and make it better then what ever you kooks did to it!

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Post by Mike Maysey » Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:12 pm

Jack Smith wrote..."As I have said before, the days of 6' and under courses on hills may be a thing of the past. Faster wheels and bearings along with higher performance boards will render the really tight courses un-makeable. Skateboard steering systems cannot keep up with the demands placed on them in truly high speed tight courses. Plus beyond a certain speed pumping becomes impossible."

I have to disagree with this statement...the better gear allows me to set my courses tighter. When wheels grip better, boards accelerate faster and the bearings roll farther you can most certainly set tighter courses. Nobody wants to see popcorn, but nobody wants to see a 'tight slalom' course like the Bob Turner Memorial either.

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Post by Brady Mitchell » Fri Jan 24, 2003 5:41 am

I like what CKnuck had to say. Maybe tight should be defined as allowing speed to increase without large offsets that decrease speed. Steepness of hill and surface of will dictate cone spacing.

While my preferance is those large offsets at speed, I am generally lacking true tight slalom skills. And my aging body might not allow them to get much better no matter how much practice.

I will add that straight line courses are boring to me to watch. And ride. I like to ride or see courses that have differant aspects to it.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brady Mitchell on 2003-01-23 23:42 ]</font>

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Post by Mark McCree » Mon Jan 27, 2003 11:57 pm

I was watching old (10-15 year old) video of Keith Hollien and Myself. I came across a 100 cone 6'center to center on a 7 deg. slope. the times were under 25 seconds. Tight-fast-down-hill courses are raceable when you are good.

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