How We Can Get More Races Going...

Brian Morris · Post by **Brian Morris** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:02 am

What do you all think of putting together a short 10 or 15 minute video of some segments of different races like Da Farm, Morro Bay, some DC races, The WV race, to show town councils what our sport consists of. In speaking with some local council people, they said they need to see what slalom really consists of to be able to allow a race to go on. I'll do anything to help get something like this around. E-mail me at Tradunity1@hotmail.com if your interested.

Regards,
"Brain"

Glenn S · Post by **Glenn S** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 9:34 am

Brian,
I think that things like that is a very good idea.

I think that if an organization like USSSF gets its act together that they should be able to help provide a “slalom resume” if you will.

In my area I’ve been thinking about where we “could” have slalom practice courses without getting shut down.

I think that many of the bike paths in my area would be a great place to have slalom practice and or even races. There are a ton of bike paths in my area (South Orange County, CA) that are off the streets. These paths run in valley and open land between the houses. They are mostly unused. Occasionally you see a bike or jogger, mostly on the weekends you see more. But many of the locations along these paths are ripe for turning into great slalom tracks.

Some of these location have pretty good asphalt, most are a bit rough though. But many seem to be going the route of cement. And you all know the little speed bumps in cement are not good for slalom skateboarding. Anyone know why they choose cement over asphalt?

But if I had a “slalom resume” I’d would personally send it with a letter asking Orange County if they would consider a few designated slalom areas along these bike/jogging trials.

Glenn

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 5:24 pm

I thought of starting a new discussion topic called “What do we do to cut down the number of races next year?!”, but we already have too many discussion topics.

Why should we do anything about it:

To save people’s time and money
To avoid race schedule conflicts that already exist (!)
To avoid dilemmas such as which race to attend which race to skip

The vast majority of slalomers are working adults. Slalom is just a hobby for most, not a way of life, and certainly not a job. It takes much effort, time and money. My grad schoolwork was put on hold this summer because of slalom.

More races will not attract and develop many slalomers. Same people will be attending same races next year. Classes like Yahoo in California, on the other hand, will most likely attract new people to the sport. If one is sincerely interested in promoting slalom, one should contact the organizers of this new program, which appears to be a success.

Vlad.

Gary Holl · Post by **Gary Holl** » Wed Dec 04, 2002 7:05 pm

John and I are the coach/teachers that got the class started at Yahoo. It was easy, we created a class syllabus, John met with the Athletic Director at Yahoo's Gym. She thought it was a great idea. A message was sent out to the Yahoo employees and within minutes the class was full. We are running it twice a week, Tuesday and Thursdays at noon for one hour. The class is 4 weeks long. On Tuesdays the class is more formal with instruction. On Thursdays its more of a open session for them to practice what they learned. I'm not sure how many riders will end up becoming part of the slalom community and how many will never ride again after the last class. I do know that everyone in the class is having fun. None of them have ever been on skateboard until this class. Most were pushing around and gliding through cones after the second day of class.

The other thing to do to grow the sport is hold regular session like I did during the summer. "Camp Holl" as it was called wasn't on a hill but in a parking lot were beginners could mix with advanced riders. This was very successful in attracting new riders and challenging to the advanced riders.
Pick a location and time, start a mailing list and send out a reminder the day before or day of the session, build the mailing list. Set up courses for beginners next to (if possible) the more challenging courses. Encourage riders that are more advanced to share their knowledge with the beginners. Make it fun for everyone at any level.

Last Saturday we invited our "students" from the Yahoo class to join us for a field trip to our location out at Shoreline. Families showed up and we had entire families riding through the cones (Mom, Dad and kids!).

I think if you have a stopwatch and some cones you can run local regular gatherings. I know that some of the best races I've been to were "GRS" races. You use a stopwatch to seed everyone and then begin running the dual event. Once the racing begins everyone is hooked.

Let's keep growing the sport, no one knows for sure what the best way to do this is, so lets keep trying different things.

[ This Message was edited by: Gary Holl on 2002-12-04 13:07 ]

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:57 am

I gotta know....is there smack already flying around in your yahoo class amongst the students...sidebets?

Gary Holl · Post by **Gary Holl** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:25 pm

John, none so far...we are thinking of setting up our timer on the last day of class next week.....maybe we can instruct them how to "speak smack" while they race against each other.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 6:47 pm

Smack Talk during racing.

I know it doesn’t belong here, but starting a new discussion topic will help bury this and other topics quickly.

I’ve witnessed a few cases in which the slower racer wins by “talking” his opponent "out" of the course. No one seemed to mind.

To me it seems unethical and boorish.

Is it part of the game?
Is it legal?

Vlad.

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:16 pm

Vlad--

I agree with you. Talking junk while racing an opponent is unethical. HOWEVER, I think that it should be legal, though not encouraged (obviously).
Reason: Though talking crap to your opponenet may cause SOME guys to lose their nerve and lose, I think that it would bring out the best racing ability in most others.
This ain't golf, this is racing! And IMHO even golf could use a little trash talking.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:42 pm

Matt, Dear!
What if one can find out some stuff about you (from just talking to you, your friends and listening to gossip) that is really personal, and give you a “friendly reminder” on the race course?
A death in the family would work just fine.
A recent break-up with a loved one.
Impotency.
A prescription medicine which name you’d rather keep private.

You get the drift. It doesn’t have to be extreme, but “extreme” is relative.
No human being will be able to ignore/block/resist some “touchy” comments.

How far can one take trash talk if allowed to talk trash? Where is the line?
A guy who starts talking smack is no gentleman. What makes you think he’ll be gentleman enough “not to go” where you think he’s not supposed to go?

Vlad.

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 8:08 pm

Actually guys, talking smack during the race is a viable racing strategy. It happens all the time. I've seen several of the top guys use this strategy. Its all part of racing.

And you can be sportsmanlike in your smack talk.

GBJ is the best at using this technique. I usually end up DQing myself when I try it.

A few of the DC Outlaw racers are easily rattled. I will not name any names but they know who they are.

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 8:09 pm

Unethical??? I can maybe see boorish, but not unethical. Make no mistake about it... given the chance, I'll talk you right out of the course, and I have many different ways to do it too. Humor, rhythm, commentary, etc. Never name calling though.

Back in the 70's, I used to count outloud while I practiced. In fact, I still do. I'll either count 1-2-1-2, or actually count the cones, 1-2-3-4 etc. (the latter is a skateboard version of course memorization like those used by skiers).

The one time I raced in a duel event, back then, the other skaters tried to outlaw my counting. In practice, it'd never occurred to me that I could throw someone off their rhythm by verbalizing mine, but it definitely had that effect. They decided that they couldn't actually rule against it, because what right did they have to take me out of MY routine. However, I agreed not to actually count outloud, which is where the rhythmic breathing and puffing that I do now comes from.

Talking though... that's a completely different thing. I'll chat at you all the way down the course and then plus some. Ask Kevin Gamble, he'll tell you. He's my favorite victim. Unfortunately though, sometimes I get to having so much fun myself that I end up talking myself out the course too.

Ultimately, I guess I really only do all of this with guys who are already playing the same game, like KMG, or Dave Riordan. It's fun and it brings a whole additional, compelling aspect to racing. Heaven forbid this kind of gamesmanship ever be completely outlawed and slalom become a mindless test of physical reflexes.

[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2002-12-05 14:11 ]

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 8:16 pm

Ha Ha, Andy I knew you would speak out on this topic.

Kevin is always a fast guys. But he is so easily rattled when racing GBJ. Now everyone knows the kink in Kevin's armor.

Kevin, you should have Yvonne follow you down the course will a bull horn during your practice sessions.

Brian Morris · Post by **Brian Morris** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 8:27 pm

Andy,

I do something similar, but instead of counting, i drum outloud. When i practice with people around, alot of people stop and look as Im yelling dat! dat dat dat dit dit dat dat da da da da dat. through a course. I think its pretty funny.

Brain

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:58 pm

If you ever see my very successful book in the stores next year titled “Smack talk-how I got to be the strongest slalomer of all times”, buy it, and I will autograph it for you.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:17 pm

Yeah, it'll be right next to Vlad's last bestseller, "Stalinist Totalitarian Boorishness For Dummies."

[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2002-12-05 16:42 ]

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:18 pm

Smack talk seems to be one strategy to win races for some.
Exaggeration seems to be another strategy to win arguments online.

So, if the smack talk is outlawed, slalom racing is going to be nothing more then “a mindless test of physical reflexes”. I know there is an “and” there, but my marketing professor said to use “and” in the “right" context a lot if we want to screw the customer AND make him feel happy he got screwed.

Andy,
it was fun watching you and Kevin talk to each other on the course. Kevin could have just ignored your comments and did not respond. It is during talking back to you when he missed the cone. So, when there exist a non-verbal consent between the smack-talkers, everything appears to be fun and peachy.

However, would it be legal for Kevin to pull out of the course as ask for a re-run if he were to find the comments bothersome?

Vlad.

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:19 pm

Vlad - I thought of starting a new discussion topic called “What do we do to cut down the number of races next year?!”

You can't be serious.

Slalom needs to have at least triple the races held last season. I'm not talking FCR style races. We need local amatuer races. I have done many local races with the help of city recreation departments. Kids like to compete, let's give them a way to do it.

I do agree that more classes like the ones at Yahoo are needed.

I read all these posts from well intentioned people on what slalom needs to grow, unfortunately most of those ideas end up dying in cyberspace.

Let's get out there and get it done!

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:39 pm

Jack, I think where Vlad is coming from is the point of view that no one WANTS TO MISS ANYTHING! It's not just the racing that makes the events special, it's the whole atmosphere that surrounds a weekend's racing.

Unfortunately, sometimes there comes a point where you find yourself having to decide whether to go here or there. That ends up being a dilemma no one wants to face.

I don't want to put words into Vlad's mouth, but what would be ideal is 52 races a year, one on each weekend, not 20 races a year with two scheduled on 10 different dates. We all want to race as much as we can, we just hate the possibility of having to make a choice between one event or another.

As an example, there is the possibility that some of us may have to choose between Dave G's event in West Virginia on July 4 and Gilmour's race in Boston the same day (not that JG's event is a definite for the same date as in the past.) But as an example, it shows where that is one day where there may be at least ONE RACE too many on one day.

See what I mean?

[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2002-12-05 16:40 ]

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:58 pm

If that what Vlad means, I see it as more of a scheduling issue, not the number of races. As I said we need more races not less. Sometimes people will just have to make a choice about where to race...if we have that situation at the local level next year, I won't consider it a problem. I'm sure that the promoters of major races will work together to avoid conflicts.

Kevin M. Gamble · Post by **Kevin M. Gamble** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 10:58 pm

Sheesh,
You don't check a BB for a few hours, and now my name is all over the place. You guys can talk smack to me all you want during a race. And if you think that it is my "kink in the armour", well, you should try to exploit it. And if you think that it will affect my performance again, well...............I guess you'll just have to find out.
Not that I'll be expecting it nudge, nudge, wink, wink

Not that I might have learned another valuable lesson from my coach GBJ

GBJ and Brain,
Be careful with the drum thing, an audible paradiddle could be an effective countermeasure; RLRR LRLL
Brian P,
Race tactics probably work better if you don't inform your opponent of your plan ahead of time. Anything else you want to tell me about? You don't sing, do you?
But,shouldn't this thread be under "the dark side of the cone"?

[ This Message was edited by: Kevin M. Gamble on 2002-12-05 17:30 ]

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:10 am

triplet... triplet... triplet... FLAM! Uh-oh! Drummer warfare.

Gary Holl · Post by **Gary Holl** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:15 am

Jack, your right, more local races. That is were the growth is. We are still working with the YMCA and hoping that we can get a slalom class as part of there program in the spring. If that happens we will run some races and this will get some people hooked.

More races!

-g-

More

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 12:33 am

Guys,

I seriously don’t think more races will attract AND develop many new slalomers.
Classes like Yahoo and “slalom sessions” with “experts” will.

C’mon? Whom are we fooling here? A “beginner” beginner will not be able to learn slalom in a month and be able to race. The sooner he starts racing - the worst racer he will be and the slower he will develop. Pumping takes time to learn. And for most people it is no fun.
Skating cones is fun, but skating cones and “playing” a serious racer without possessing half the needed skills appears to slow down the learning process.

Living in the dream world is one way to cheat the timer.

A potential issue with the increased number of “local races” is the low number of “local racers”. Most racers will come from out of town. And most of them will be the same people you see at other races. There are just a few of us in the states and in the world.

Brian, you have organized a race in your local town. What was the final turnout, and how many people came from where?
This is not going to happen on week-to-week basis if you organize more races. Will the sponsors that are (I heard) already struggling to make $$ have enough incentive to sponsor more “little” races? I know you can sell stuff at the race site to the spectators who like what they see, but I have doubts they will ever use it after the race is over.

So, Jack, I’m pro-race. The more - the better. If people learn slalom while racing. But will they?

Vlad.

PS. Kevin, you’re right - you’re out for a couple of hours and BUM!- you’re so far behind!

"The edited part":
Wes, I just read your edited post. I aslo advocate my other book for the Southerners: "Buying and keeping your first slave".

[ This Message was edited by: Vlad Popov on 2002-12-05 18:44 ]

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 1:51 am

I completely agree with Jack that we need more race- but more local races and we someday need a tiered system of races.

What we actually need most are "permanent local slalom courses". People should not look to Myself, Jack Smith, and other Old generation skaters to start these. We've done it already. Time to pass the torch and ahve the newer generation start a few "Permanent courses".

I started two courses. Trouble was......we had no competitions to go to- except the NYC VS Beantown smackdown. NOw we have competitions but we need to increase hte number of skaters. In recent months GBJ has proven that if you set a "permanent course" and make some noise to get people to know about it.....you'll grow a slalom scene out of nowhere.

A couple of things I noticed. If you start a course in an area where there are already "fit people" exercising- they will get the word out to others. Best place to set up a temporary course? Right next to an athletic event with some crossover- be it a bike race or rowing race....but it had better be a racing discipline.

Kickflippers are not racers in general. They are independent artists.

So to the new generation.....do you have any plans to start a permanent slalom course? Don't have any slalomers living near you? Well get a course up and running- have a few skaters come up for 1 weekend per month and skate in the exact same spot with heavy foot traffic- have demo boards and soon you'll have your own scene.

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 2:18 am

Vlad,

Yes, classes will help the sport grow. I applaud Gary, John and Juluis.

Remember a week or so ago when I was jawing with Wes about the difference between traditional sports and skateboarding. One thing that's for sure is that practice without the chance of competition becomes very boring no matter what the sport.

I disagree with you on the following point;
"A “beginner” beginner will not be able to learn slalom in a month and be able to race. The sooner he starts racing - the worst racer he will be and the slower he will develop.

Learning to slalom is easy, learning to race at a high level is another story. Vlad, one point I think you might be missing here is that when you put on a local race you can divide the racers into groups based on ability or age or even both.

I agree with you that people will not learn to slalom while racing, however entering a race in most cases will get a kid excited about learning to slalom better.

If we really want to grow slalom, some of us will have to make the decision to concentrate less on our racing and more on attracting and developing new racers.

As for sponsors, when I have done local races, I go after local sponsors. Not every race has to have Turners, Bahnes, Comets or Roes as prizes. Kids are stoked with just about any prize, be it a small trophy, ribbon or certificate. Heck, I even have some ribbons I won locally way back in 1975 and I still smile when I look at them.

Skate fast and be safe...Comrade Vlad.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Fri Dec 06, 2002 4:42 am

Jack, I’m an optimist, so I’ll be happy to be wrong.
On this I agree 100%:
“If we really want to grow slalom, some of us will have to make the decision to concentrate less on our racing and more on attracting and developing new racers.”
Ribbons and medals are the best prizes!
Vlad.

Eddy Martinez · Post by **Eddy Martinez** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 5:17 am

I was fortunate to meet Marcos Soulsby Monroy from Galveston this last weekend. He heads the Grassrootslalom there. Unfortunately we did not get to run any cones due to the rain. So far he and I are the only two slalom skaters in Texas. Or so it seems. If there are more who knows were they are. Marcos has invited me to go and compete at Ricky Byrds place in Mississippi. I accepted the invitation . My goal this year is to attract more people to our sport. Eddy Martinez,TEXAS OUTLAW

Eddy Martinez · Post by **Eddy Martinez** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 5:17 am

I was fortunate to meet Marcos Soulsby Monroy from Galveston this last weekend. He heads the Grassrootslalom there. Unfortunately we did not get to run any cones due to the rain. So far he and I are the only two slalom skaters in Texas. Or so it seems. If there are more who knows were they are. Marcos has invited me to go and compete at Ricky Byrds place in Mississippi. I accepted the invitation . My goal this year is to attract more people to our sport. Eddy Martinez,TEXAS OUTLAW

Eddy Martinez · Post by **Eddy Martinez** » Thu Jan 16, 2003 5:17 am

I was fortunate to meet Marcos Soulsby Monroy from Galveston this last weekend. He heads the Grassrootslalom there. Unfortunately we did not get to run any cones due to the rain. So far he and I are the only two slalom skaters in Texas. Or so it seems. If there are more who knows were they are. Marcos has invited me to go and compete at Ricky Byrds place in Mississippi. I accepted the invitation . My goal this year is to attract more people to our sport. Eddy Martinez,TEXAS OUTLAW

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