100-cone slalom course

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Vlad Popov
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Post by Vlad Popov » Wed Nov 20, 2002 6:35 am

Jani,
Could you please post rules/guidelines for running 100-cone courses, i.e., if there are standard ramp and cone distances required, or it is up to the organizers/skaters to decide. We want to try running a 100-cone course in a near future in the DC area (with an unlimited push start), and some people from California are interested as well.
We feel it is time to post a new world record... or just try to make it to the end of the course...

Thanks.

Vlad.

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Post by Michael Dong » Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:05 pm

Seattle area skaters are also interested! It will be a bit difficult to find a 700+ foot hill to set the course on. The media for a given location might find this amusing enough to put on the evening news since it will be an attempt at a world record.

This will be tough since I have a hard enough time putting in a clean run through 40 or 50 cones.

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:01 pm

How about this picture for a start. It gives you the kind of slope we used in 1995.

Image

It would have been better if we would have done on completely flat ground, because it would have been the only fair way to reproduce it. But unfortunately that was not the case.

The timing strips were set at the first cone and at the last. We used to the start ramp to get started.

More info to follow...

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Post by ur13 » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:07 pm

Vlad - I'm in for this one. Looks fun! Lets run it at one of the DC winter outlaw races. I don't think the P&R will hold 100 cones but maybe you guys have another spot.

Most of have ever run was 85 cones 6'OC (ran out of room), 100 should be interesting.

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:12 pm

When you come up to 70 or so you start to get really, really tired.

Enjoy!

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Post by Vlad Popov » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:23 pm

Chris! How are you?!!!

Yes, the idea seems exciting enough by itself! We want to try it this weekend and see if it’s doable at Walker. P@R should not be a problem as well; remember the left side of the lot - it’s not as steep and it appears to be long enough? - I think it’s a perfect place for a 100-cone course right there!
Also, we will test one place tomorrow and if it fits what it’s supposed to fit, we might have something really BIG this winter! Like really-really BIG. Bigger then a 100-cone course! But only about 25% of the length. Not a word anymore....

Thank you, Jani. I guess we’ll just make up new rules so that we can (unofficially) beat the world record. No ramps, only a timer and an unlimited push start. Some cones too!
We have a chance to try 6 and 5.5 feet courses at ones.
Will keep the community posted.
Good luck Michael on the other side of US!
Vlad.

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Post by ur13 » Wed Nov 20, 2002 8:34 pm

Jani - the Morro Bay course (sunday, day 2) was what 50-60 cones. You saw how many people were huffing and puffing by the end of that one!

vlad - yes I do remember that side of the lot. The pitch is flatter to so it will give the newbies a chance at making 100. Their speed won't build up to a point where they just start popcorning!

I figured we will see some "vlad inspired" tight courses this winter in DC. I have a secret "plank killer" deck (yes it is a turner) for your courses. No more being stuck with a 8.375" pig in 5' and under!

see you on the 7th.

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Post by Jack Smith » Wed Nov 20, 2002 9:17 pm

Hey fellows, this does sound like fun. We have a spot here on the central coast where we can give it a try.
One suggestion I would make is to have a limited push, be it 25', 50' or 100'. I have all the documentation forms from Guiness, I can email them to anyone who is interested. They recently sent the forms to me to use for documentation of my next skate across America. Also maybe have two records, one for a course on a hill and another for a course on the flat.

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Post by ur13 » Wed Nov 20, 2002 9:25 pm

I agree with jack. Limited the the push to say 20' (2 huge, 3 good pushes or 4 little pushes for msot people) is a good thing.

I think a record should be for the following
-100 cones with 20' push start, flat
-100 cones with a ramp flat + hill (FCR ramp?)
-100 cones on a hill (defined pitch?)

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Post by Brian Morris » Wed Nov 20, 2002 9:44 pm

I have 2 spots in Hawthorne, one on mostly flat and a curved hill that you can run about 100 cones, maybe more. Hopefully the town will give me the permit to run a race early next season around March or so.

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Post by Jack Smith » Thu Nov 21, 2002 1:01 am

Cone Penalty?

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Thu Nov 21, 2002 1:52 am

If I remember correctly what Gilmour told me, the penalty is DEATH if you hit ONE. This is sort of a giant "Cyber Slalom": it's an all or none situation.

As soon as JG gets online again and reads this thread, he can fill in all the details. If I remember correctly, he was involved in two 100-cone slalom events events during his travels across the pond.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:03 am

Wes,

Gilmour was seen carving (snow) at Killington Resort today. People are looking for him on at least 3 forums, and he’s nowhere to be found. Oh, where’s John when you need him? Also, I believe it was Jani Soderhall who organized the competitions in which John participated in EU.


Jack,

I’m very much interested in what Guinness has to say about the push start distances. We can try them all this weekend. Do they say anything about cone penalty? Should we just take 0.1 as a standard, or is it really clean runs only?

Some thoughts:
Road surface/pitch and wind are important “variables” that can’t be standardized.
The pitch can be unlimited; if it’s too steep, no matter what board one uses 1.7 m cones or so will be impossible to skate. There is probably one road grade that’d be optimal for skating tight slalom courses, and I’m sure it’s not 12%.

Vlad.

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Post by ur13 » Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:19 am

0.1 cone penalty, no DQ. Over 100 cones 0.1 could add up quickly, especially at the end (last 30 cones).

fatigued legs are a bitch.

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Post by Jack Smith » Thu Nov 21, 2002 2:20 am

Vlad,
The Guiness documentation is not specific to slalom. It is explains the requirements for witnesses,submitting, etc. I think a good plan would be to have everyone who competes in the 100 cone challenge from various parts of the world submit the paperwork to Guiness. It would make the record look more legit.

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Post by Michael Dong » Thu Nov 21, 2002 4:14 am

I think a 100 cone would be really cool. Physical conditioning will be key. Gotta have power and concentration the whole way through. I like it.

I am thinking it really doesn't matter what cone spacing you have, you still have to move body and board at the same frequency regardless of cone spacing. For a larger cone spacing you will have to be travelling much faster. A hill will definitely make it less physically demanding. Man - a flat 100 cone course and we will all have legs like olympic speedskaters.

Maybe two categories:

1. Getting through 100 cones any way posssible, any grade, surface, tow yourself behind a motorcycle at the start - whatever.

2. Specified "flat" course within some spec flatness, with push distances called out. Any cone spacing you want.

Let the previous world record either stand on its own or be lumped into the 1st category.

Cone specs would be important (height, diameter, weight (Turners would be a good place to start))

Cone penalties TBD or require a clean run.

Gotta find a place in Seattle to do this. Maybe have a 100 cones race in a dry place before the FCR season starts.

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Post by Claude Regnier » Thu Nov 21, 2002 4:30 am

I had already contacted guiness regarding the record to find out if it was recognized. It wasn't but they did state to me that they would be interested in it.

I'll look to see if I have it on file. It has a contact name on it. I probably lost it when my system went down but you never know.

Micheal you are right about the conditioning. It's a long haul. I was running 130 cones this year a couple of times. As Vlad said you start to get tired.

This is why the Ave. speed is only 20 + MPH. It's tough to maintain anything faster that long. Times for 130 cones were all right around 30 seconds, by the way. Only the last 22 were going slithly uphill. The first 90 were on a slope, then flat, then up and up and up.

Another Cyber comp as such.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Thu Nov 21, 2002 4:31 am

You know, Michael, an interesting thing: for a short wheelbase board the speed increases as the cone distance decreases (up to a certain point). We will run 6 and 5.5 ft center-to-center Soccer cones this weekend and do inter and intra time comparisons.
It will be hard to make the course clean, but we will try.
I've done almost 60 5.5 ft cones, and it was never a problem making it clean, but the man says wait till you get to 70, so I can't wait.
Vlad.

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Post by Jack Smith » Thu Nov 21, 2002 7:09 am

Ok, the central coast crew is going to give this 100 cone thing a try this weekend. Here's how were going to run it. 25' push, timing lights will be positioned even with the first and last cone and 1/10 second per cone penalty. The area we will be using has a slight grade, so will not be in the flat category. Racers will include the Gordon and Benko clans, Jackie Lee, old time turned new racer David Baker and hopefully Mr. Dunn if he is not too jet lagged from his trip to Panama with his wife Michelle and my wife, Maurine. We'll let you know.

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Thu Nov 21, 2002 12:22 pm

Wow, I'm impressed with the speed at which this thread took off. Great!

Out of memory, and before I locate the exact information, we must have done 6 ft center to center as in the ISSA rules and with 0.1 second cone penalty. No maximum cone count. If you start hitting cones you loose your concentration anyway and You've got no chance of beating the record.

Good luck to those who want to try it. I think we should organize a few "real" attempts for a new World Record at some of the major contests next year, to add some extra spice to already event filled weekends.
If we can agree upon the rules we should be able to do one over here, and maybe a few in the States and all be able to accept the outcome. Sound like great fun.

Getting somebody into the Guinness book of Records could be a way to give some attention to our sport. Every magazine, local, national, international, likes to write a few words and show a picture of a new world record holder.

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Thu Nov 21, 2002 5:05 pm

Jack,

Sounds like Perfumo Canyon Road?

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Post by Jack Smith » Thu Nov 21, 2002 7:34 pm

Yep, Prefumo Canyon it is.

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Post by William Tway » Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:18 pm

The end of Trippe's Boston Slalom Vid from 2001 has a brief clip of Gilmour going for the 100 cone record. I can dig out the complete clip if anyone cares.

http://www.attikus.com/tv/tv_4.html

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Post by Vlad Popov » Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:35 pm

Tway, of course you should dig it out!

Ok, let’s finalize the rules at least for this weekend.

Sloped surface. We can’t standardize the slope, but at least we can agree it’s not flat.

25 ft or 7 m 62 cm push distance to the first cone. Timing on/off at first/last cone. Cone distance 6 ft or 182.88 cm center to center. 0.1 second penalty for hit cones.

I’m going to try 5.5 ft or 167.64 cm center to center at the exact same location just to see if it’s slower/faster. 5.5 ft is closer to the official ISSA cone distance of 1.70 m then 6 ft by 4 inches. You think it’s not noticeable? - Try taking it at full throttle on a sloped road! I use two different wheelbases to optimize pump on 5.5 and 6 ft.

And I do know this for sure: clean runs are 99% of times faster then the runs with several hit cones.
And another thing: the weather people are calling for snow flurries in the DC area this Saturday! We’re, like, Spartans! Don’t tell that to Andrew Muzikin from Moscow, Russia who recently told me that Avalons are no good...because they slide on ice :smile:


Let’s put TS back in US!
Good luck everybody!

Vlad.

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Post by Jack Smith » Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:35 pm

You're invited!
This Sunday, November 24th at noon will be holding a 100 cone World Record Challenge in San Luis Obispo. The event will be held in a new houing development just off Prefumo Canyon Road. Please email or call Jack for directions...
oldskateguy@aol.com
805-462-2712

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Post by John Gilmour » Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:50 pm

As there was no standardization for the 100 cone record before I see no reason to attempt to introduce a standard now.

In the Olympic Broad Jump people postulated different records being set for high altitude vs low altitude.

IMHO, as I have run the 100 cone event before and I did actually try to train for it...... Changing the variables doesn't have that much to do with the outcome. Make it tighter and you are turning more and though the distance is less you do slow down. Make it looser and you have more distance to travel though you can hit it with more speed. Tighter- your legs start to incinerate around cone 65 ,looser- you loose too much of your High end pump by the finish.

Increase the pitch of the hill? You might end up going too fast to make the course and blow out like at the July 4th event. Run it flat....well you'll never break the record...same thing goes for short 2 push starts.

Sweeney had the long time record. I was the first to break it in France, then within minutes I think Andres Sidler, Daniel Ridoli and finally Luca beat it as well. Gianmarco Luca (Not to be confused with Gianluca Ferrero) holds the record currently.

I think it would be the most interesting to do a fixed distance of 1.7 meters as the "classic record" and an unfixed distance to see what is possible. That way...at least you could try to match the cone spacing to the hill and surface you were running. I even tried setting a variable spaced course in Boston where the cone spacing increased as the hill got faster.

The hill to break the record on is at Bienevenida Ave. Take PCH highway to Sunset and then follow Sunset uphill until you hit Bienevenida and go left. Gorman knows exactly where it is.


*my money might be on either Mollica or Chaput as Physical conditioning is key and they never seem to get tired.

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:08 pm

John, the first time I ever heard about this stuff was sitting in the barn at Steve's house and you were showing your portfolio of pictures.

Did you tell me the 100-cone races in Europe were all-or-nothing or was there a calculated time penalty? I know you said something and I even repeated it here earlier this week. But now as I think about it, I can't remember if you said the course was all-or-nothing or if you commented that if you hit one cone you lost. (Meaning any penalty knocked you out of the running.)

Could I prevail upon you to relate some of the requirements used when you went for this record seven years ago?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2002-11-22 10:10 ]</font>

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Post by John Gilmour » Fri Nov 22, 2002 7:11 pm

.1 sec penalty per cone. And I believe they were 6 feet on center at teh French open in 1995.

BTW who knows what the current womens 100 cone record is?

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:34 pm

Ok, time for semantics. This is the "100-cone straight slalom course." Not the "594-foot course," or the "545-foot course." The gist of it is ONE HUNDRED CONES.

If you hit ONE cone, then it becomes a 99 CONE course. You fail. By the very nature of the course description, anyone who attempts this course and this record is trying run 100 cones faster than anyone else. Not a specified distance, but a specified number of cones.

That means all or nothing. Just like the cyber slalom challenge, only four times as long. Of course, since the French and Europeans had a time penalty, then the rules should be the same in 2002.

I would suggest, though, that someone who runs 100 cones CLEAN is closer to the mark than someone who hits 5 or 6 and posts a time a fraction of a second faster. Again, if this was called the "594-foot flat slalom challenge," then there'd be no argument. Calling it "100 cones" though, to me, paints the participant into a corner. Either you run 100 cones or your don't.

By the way, I do have a 100-cone course location here in Summerville. It's part of the paved nature trail I use for cross country: paved, perfectly flat and almost 1/2 mile straight through the woods. It even has a slight inclined "ramp" at one end when it rises to street level to cross over.

Too bad I don't have 100 cones:-(

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2002-11-22 14:38 ]</font>

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Post by Vlad Popov » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:52 pm

Wes,

I have no problem with calling it a 100-cone course with the option of unlimited cones hit. Everyone hits cones on it. Gianmarco Luca did. Elena Sinadolova appeared to hit one (from the picture). Hitting a couple of cones is no problem. A person who hits a lot of cones has probably has lost his rhythm anyway and will not post a fast time.
The beauty of the 100 cones course to me is in what John Gilmour summed up about the slope grade/cone distance variables and in the unlimited amount of hit cones allowed.

Yes, there are logical limits to it of course. Like, some guy can get on a 15% road and plow thought most of the cones and probably post a good time even with a 9 sec penalty. But it is very unlikely to happen as most people are sane and won’t do that, because this kind of deal will not be recognized by anyone. And we also need not forget that what we’re about to do this weekend is Unofficial and only at the official competitions can we speak of breaking/posting old/new World Records.


I don’t have 100 cones either. I have 100 friends with 1 cone! :smile:

Vlad.

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Post by John Gilmour » Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:28 pm

I have 107 cones so anytime you are up for ...let's rock.
Sr. Tucker- best of luck to you to pull off a clean run. I've done it before - but you tend to get tired and make more mistakes as you go.

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Sat Nov 23, 2002 6:22 pm

I finally located the complete results of the 100 cone World Record breaking at Verrieres Open, France 1995.

World record holders:
Men: Luca Giammarco, Italy 20.56
Women: Yelena Sinadolova, Russia 23.55
Juniors: Alexey Alekseyev, Russia 33.98


These times are including time penalties (0.1 per cone).

Judging from the results it is difficult to make a perfectly clean run on a 100 cone course. Actually the only one who did in the contest was myself in my second attempt and my time was 2 seconds behind Luca's.

Luca hit 4 cones in his best run, 2 in his second attempt. John you hit 6. I hit 2 in my best run.

When the next official world record attempt shows on TV it would be great if the new record man does it clean, but if others in their attempts hits cones it'll just add to the excitement. If everybody makes clear runs it might actually look too easy.

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Post by Howard Gordon » Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:19 am

Thought I'd pass along some initial observations from a 100 cone test run we set up today (we'll run the real deal tomorrow):

1. there seems to be no advantage to running on a sloped surface, except perhaps at the beginning where you want to get up to full speed - once there, you don't want or need the push of a hill while trying to maintain a rhythm

2. speaking for myself, it was not realistic to expect satisfactory results first time out after taking a break from skating. 100 cones is a *very* long course, and I certainly felt the need to start a conditioning program, going from 50 to 60 to 70 etc over a number of sessions before having any hope of reasonable results with 100 cones

In any case, best of luck to everyone who tries. It's quite a challenge, and the existing record times are very impressive.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:37 am

Long story short:
A pathetic attempt to get close to the world record in the Washington, DC area ended up with a bust.
Nobody posted a time. Nobody made the course clean. Nobody was physically prepared to take that kind of abuse. But everybody loved it, and we’re doing it again! :grin:

Short story long:
The winds were blowing hard in the DC area today, gusts reaching 30 MPH. It was cold. Colder then thermometers registered. Wind-chill felt like January!

Slappy Mixwell, Mike Ohm, Brian Parsons and I met at the Grand Prix Race track by the RFK Stadium in the District of Columbia late Saturday morning. The pavement was perfect (9 out of 10), the pitch was good, the road was straight, but the conditions plain sucked. No cone doubled or tripled would have been able to stand the winds. We didn’t even bother trying. 88A and 92A wheels gripped asphalt well, and we all had a feeling we’d be coming back to that place when it “doesn’t blow”.

Slappy decided to waste no time; he got his sail-skateboard out and mounted a 5.2 m sail in 5.2 minutes. It was gusty, but those of us with windsurfing experience enjoyed a couple of runs up and down the long straightaway. Sailboards are surprisingly inexpensive (around $250 for the board) and are much fun! Slappy said he feels comfortable cruising on his sailboard at around 30 MPH on empty parking lots when conditions are right. Trucks are fully adjustable, and large pneumatic tires provide a soft comfortable ride. Team DALV is seriously considering building a sailboard next year.

The conditions indeed were right today for what Slappy enjoys doing, but for running a 100-cone course - NO WAY! After discussing every possible alternative we agreed to go to the Occoquan Park in Northern Virginia, only half an hour away from the RFK stadium. The decision was based purely on the road location- it is protected from strong winds by trees and rock on both sides. The surface quality received 6 out of 10 points from two “independent judges”. The pitch seemed nice, but inconsistent - it was steeper in the beginning, flatter in the middle and steeper at the end. After inspecting the place and sipping a couple of Warstieners we went to work.

Setting a 100-cone course is as tiring as riding one.

When we put down 100 cones and looked at the course some of us panicked. We’re used to riding 50-something-cone courses in our area. But that course looked like a monster in comparison! :eek:
There was absolutely no time to get Brian’s timer out, because park rangers could come anytime and ask us to leave. We were so eager to try running a 100-cone course, that we actually proceeded before even marking it!
The first runs ended up in blow-outs for everyone. It was simply too fast, and set-up adjustments were needed. Those of us who tried running Avalons switched to Cambrias. I was lucky to have a 16.5-inch-wheelbase board with me, so I mounted my 90-mm-axle Tracker RTX/S with 86/90A Cambrias on it. Everybody could eventually make it to the end of the course. There were many blow-outs, most of them beyond the half-point. A couple of times people couldn’t finish the last ten cones. I once bailed on the 97th cone! It felt as though 90% of skating was wiggling and (only!) 10% was pumping. Optimizing a set-up to “fit” 6-ft-cone distance is the number one step if one is to succeed.
I’m sure it was slightly different for everyone, but the common feeling was that the first 50 cones is just a breeze. They were always skated with ease, and didn’t take much physical and mental energy. 60th cone reminds one he’s just a human. 70th cone puts bad thoughts in one’s head. 80th makes one debate whether to finish or to bail out. 90th cone turns on an autopilot, and the last one gives the same amount of joy as the state of nirvana!

Pacing oneself proved to be essential. Pushing too much in the beginning led to suffering the consequences around the 70th cone. Almost always the penalty for going too hot into the course was a DQ. It was partly attributed to the specifics of our road’s pitch, as the course was getting steeper around the 70th cone. Right when one would want to have it flatter. Most of the work needed to be done in the last 30 cones. So, our road was very far from the “ideal 100-cone hill”, and the location might be changed for the future sessions. We all agreed that it is better to have it steeper in the beginning and flatter toward the end. We also found 50 ft of pushing distance to be enough for getting up to speed and positioning the feet on the board. However, it was very hard to hold the feet in the proper/same position for over 60 cones. Probably a toe stopper will help.

Walking to the top of a 100-cone course is as tiring as riding the course.

We tended to take breaks before going down the hill. Getting back uphill is quite a workout. At least 3 (4 is better) cone marshals are needed to keep things running smoothly.

Car traffic volume was rather high for that place, and it was just a matter of time when the park ranger would show up and give us a nice proposition to leave. The course was demolished within minutes. :evil:

The easiest thing about a 100-cones course is taking it down.

It was sad to leave early and not to be able to post times. So we decided to time a run using a wristwatch. I took a run on a marked course without cones and did my best to wiggle around every single mark. Slappy registered 25 something pathetic seconds. It was not a surprise, as it felt like we were in the 25s-30s all along, but when he called it out loud it just felt crashing. We will have a timer next time to see where we’re at on the real course.

Mike treated us with gin and tonic at his friend’s bar (Ohm has friends in low places), where we discussed slalom, Slalom! and slalom-related topics.

In conclusion, a 100-cone course is not what it seems. It requires a lot of training, thinking and physic. 4-5 cones per second sound unbelievable, but it is doable. And it is good fun!

One of the nicest things about a 100-cone course is watching your friends run it. :lol:

Vlad.






<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vlad Popov on 2002-11-24 01:45 ]</font>

Claude Regnier
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Post by Claude Regnier » Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:07 am

Okay so now some of you know why I have a 150 cones and was runnin a 130 cones last year.

Conditioning, conditioning, conditioning.

Good Luck

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Post by Howard Gordon » Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:28 am

Second day with 100 cones went a lot better - we moved the course to take out some of the slope, and we got started a bit earlier so tailwind was less of a factor. No serious threats to the existing men's and women's records, but at least we completed some runs and recorded some times - Jack's best was 30.80, I managed a 30.90, and Terry Benko had a 32.23. Dylan didn't quite complete a full course, but he looked to be on pace for a 33-34 second run, which gives him a reasonable shot at taking out the existing junior record.

Yesterday, this was looking pretty much impossible, but we turned around today. Several factors:

1. the mellower course, so speed management was possible ... we were actually pumping the final 25 cones

2. the right equipment - Jack and I ran a low camber short wheelbase cutaway, and Terry ran Dylan's fullnose

3. when we moved the course, our original finish line became the 75th cone marker. psychologically, it was great to see that marker to figure out on-course progress and pacing for the end. in the future, we'll draw lines at the 25th, 50th and 75th cones for this purpose

I think I had the fastest raw time with a sub 30-second run (plus a bunch of cones), and there were several sections of the course where everything was working and it felt like I was really flying. Realistically, I'll be thrilled to eventually get down into the 26-27 second range, and I continue to be in awe of the existing records, but at least we now know that we can complete the course.

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Post by John Gilmour » Mon Nov 25, 2002 3:58 am

Before I went to the French open in 1995 I tried running 140 cones regularly. You really had to struggle to make 140 cones by 110 you were hating it- and the last 30 seemed to take forever.

Then going to run 100 cones did not seem so bad and your fade would start around cone 85. At about 5 cones per second you only had to last for 3 more seconds.

If you really feel like tortureing yourself make the last 20 cones about 4 inches tighter.

Maysey has the fitness/quickness for this event and a good high speed weighting and unweighting for this.

It is the Marathon event for our our sport.

Vlad Popov
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Post by Vlad Popov » Mon Nov 25, 2002 4:17 am

100 cones. Day two.

It was much nicer today, warmer but somewhat windy. The course was set at a different location (Walker Ln). We didn’t have a timer, and we could barely fit 100 cones in there. But all that is nothing. The pitch was terrible: the last 20 or so cones were on uphill portion of the road.

The initial grade was very nice. I switched to an 18-inch-wheelbase (from 16.5) no-flex DALV board with the same trucks and wheels I used yesterday. The entire course required pumping, and it felt faster then yesterday until about the 80th cone. Getting and keeping the rhythm seemed much easier today; it wasn’t a survivor’s course like yesterday.
The first 80 cones felt easy. Maybe it’s because the last 20 required a stronger pump uphill. Or maybe it’s because in addition to that, the course wasn’t as steep. The wind was a factor today, and it worked against us.

Foot placement wasn’t an issue like yesterday. However, at least one adjustment was needed between the 50th and 60th cone. On most runs it costed a couple of cones, but saved time in the end.

I calculated times from yesterday’s video of our runs. The fastest runs were in the 24-26 sec category plus hit cones.
Only a stopwatch and video camera were used today. Times were in 23.5 – 32 second range (depending on who posted them) plus hit cones. The last 20 cones were very slow, so we feel very optimistic about skating the real deal on a hill soon. 24-25 seconds with an average of 5 hit cones was never a problem for me today, and I feel confident about being able to shave at least a second off my time on a better course. All times are invalid and unofficial without a timer.

No problem making the course clean. Worrying about it too much slows one down. 4-5 hit cones seemed to be an average on the fastest runs of the day.

Despite the fact that we didn’t post any times, the weekend wasn’t wasted. We’ve learned quite a lot in the short period of time.

Over 100 cones for training sounds like a good idea. We were actually going to run a 101-cone course today, since we can’t possibly beat the record, but can start a new trend. :razz:

Next week: RFK stadium with a timer and hopefully more people. Weather permitting.

Thanks to everyone who supported the idea and came out to play this weekend in different parts of the country.

Vlad.

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Post by ur13 » Mon Nov 25, 2002 4:20 am

Noah and I tried 100 cones today.

I rolled into our practice spot about 15mins late and see Noah finishing laying down cones. I park my car and walk over and say "so that is 100 cones huh?" (or something like that)...Noah say "Nope that only 50"...'"50!, damn!". We had no more room and no possible area to place them.

Also our practice hill is a fairly steep, steep in that it handles tight slalom well but not GS.

So we ran the 50 6' OC cones with about a 30' push start for about 30minutes. Now we had run 30 5.5'OC cones on this same hill, we've run 40 cone TS on this hill all with minimal fuss. But this 50 cone thing was different. By about 35-40 cones in our speed was rocket like..all the way down this course things got faster and faster. You had to pull up halfway down and just turn, no pumping.

My best time with 2 cones was 10.257(hand held stopwatch), Noah was right on par with me though neither one of us were really timing runs, we were just figuring out the course.

One thing I noticed was that cone color made a difference. We were using Turner cones, the top 25'ish were red and the bottom 25'sh were white. After a few runs we moved 5 reds to the bottom of the course to allow for a bigger push start up top (30' is HUGE). I found myself blowing out at the approach of the reds at the bottom. They seemed distracting. I would see them out of the corner of my eye and think I was farther along than I was and then start hitting cones.

Again neither one of us were really pushing it hard. We eneded up running 3 other hybrid style 40 cone pumper courses for the next 3 hours.

Noah does have a spot, we realized later in the day, that will support up to a 200 to even 300 cone course. The pitch is super mellow, but fast with a steep section for a run in at the start (where we usually run cones). Sometime this winter we will try 100 - 150 there.

I was running a turner fullnose/cambrias...noah was trying his 36" pocket pistol to his fullnose/cambrias...I think i saw him on his ick too...

it is all about rythmn!

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Mon Nov 25, 2002 1:02 pm

I think it will be a very hard task (notice that I don't say impossible although I think it's closer to impossible than very hard) to beat Giammarco's record.

To make it happen you will need...
- The quickest tight slalomer around.
- The most well trained slalomer around.
- The perfect cone distance for this rider and his board.
- The perfect hill with a very good surface.

All of these factors we had in Verrieres open in 1995. Meaning that Gianmarco could start the course in his maximun speed and then keep that max until the end. The hill we used was probably perfect for this. I you look at the picture earlier in this thread the hill starts off quite steep and then gets almost flat. If it wouldn't have been for this the speed would have been to high.

So if you can set up a 100 cone course for a extreamly skilled and well fit slalomer that makes him go close to his limit from start to finish you might have a chance to break the record.

Also notice that this has to be done in a offical competition where you only have 2 runs to have a go at it.

Even though this may sound discouraging the good news is that we shouldn't stare blind on only that world record. I think the thrill is just as high to try and do your "personal world record" and for the slalom community in large to try and have a yearly 100 cone champion.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Hans Koraeus on 2002-11-25 07:05 ]</font>

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Post by Jack Smith » Mon Nov 25, 2002 6:27 pm

100 Cone Challenge - San Luis Obispo, Calfornia

By the time I arrived at the Prefumo Canyon hill, Howard already had the course set. It was mind-boggling to see a 100 cones stretching down the hill, much more impressive than I imagined.

The Prefumo hill is fairly shallow, no more than a 2% grade with brand new, 8-star asphalt.

Present for the challenge were myself, Howard and Dylan Gordon, David Baker and the Terry Brown-Benko clan.

After each of us had taken a few un-successful passes, usually blowing out somewhere between the 50th and 75th cone, we moved the first 25 cones to the end of the course, thus slowing it down a bit. We started the day with a headwind, that clocked around to a tailwind after an hour or so.

I started off riding a Bahne Classic fiberglass with Seismic 110mmm and Avalons, late in the day I switched to Howard's black Turner cutaway with a TTC in back an a Tracker on front and Cambrias. Terry rode Dylan's yellow full nose with Cambrias, I don't remember the truck set-up.

Concentration is key, the cones just keep coming. Seems as if you blink, you're done. We had a line at the 75 cone mark and I remember thinking, "that can't be right, I must be closer than that to the end."

Terry turned in a sensational run, hitting only one cone, her time was 32.23.

Howard ran a 30.9 which included 15 cones. My best was 30.8 with 6 cones included.

My thoughts...lots of fun and definitely a lot harder than I thought it would be. Can't wait to try it again.

Oh by the way Howard now holds the over 50 record and I hold the over 45 record. There are some good things about getting older.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Mon Nov 25, 2002 10:03 pm

Here are some pictures from the very intense 100-cone weekend.

Mike Ohm recovering from a recent park injury. A 100-cone course is the best cure for that!
Image

Brian Parsons stuck in what appears to be a wall of cones.
Image


Myself getting too close to the cone.
Image

Slappy Mixwell disturbing the cones.
Image

WesE at around 75th cone pumping uphill on Sunday.
Image

Can’t wait to do it again and post some times!

Vlad.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vlad Popov on 2002-11-25 16:13 ]</font>

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Post by Adam Trahan » Mon Nov 25, 2002 10:40 pm

Cool Vlad, very cool. Thanks for sharing.

adam

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Post by Leonardo Ojeda » Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:17 pm

Nice pics Vlad, looks very challenging

one question tough, how di du manage to take your pic in the exact time u passed by? hehe

leo
"I`ll see you at the end of the hill"

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Nov 26, 2002 6:36 pm

It’s elementary, Watson!
A Digital Video Camera shoots a video of us skating, i.e., we “shoot” each other. I then extract some good still shots off the film and submit them to slalomskateboarder.com for further trimming/stamping/uploading. Video still shots are not of the greatest quality, but one can almost always get a good still shot off the video film. Not a case with Digital and SLR photography. To get a good couple of shots one needs to “burn” a film or two.
Next year we might have an inexpensive ($500 range), good-optics digital cameras that are fast enough to shoot 10-15 frames per second. Then you’re talking good quality still shots! For now I shoot SLR with a 180 degree Fisheye lens and the guys like the picture quality. However, it is really hard to capture the best moment, as slalom has only few by nature.

Vlad.

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Post by John Gilmour » Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:29 pm

One other trick.

You can also attack a 100 cone course first pumping aggressively- attaining a high top end speed and then trying to get a clean "straighter" line to carry you through the 35-70 cone mark. Then pump like a SOB for the remaining 30 cones.

It seems like you get Lactic acid buildup by the 70th cone if you are really pumping the whole thing. You only have so much oxygen and ATP available per unit time. And slalom is mostly an anaerobic sport and as we build up oxygen debt in the form of lactic acid.....our muscles don't fire as quickly when deprived of Oxygen.

So what I would do is pump to get up to speed (Cones 1-35) and then mid course change my stance to a near Parallel stance and conserve energy and give my legs a 5-7 second rest (Cones 35-70). Then move my footing again and pump for the last few cones. If the pitch of the hill is steep enough you can do this without adding to your time as the boost you get from the "rest" will help you make it up in the final cones.

You do need a strategy to approach this if you expect a good result.

You'll change your stance by sliding your rear foot up the deck....good luck.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2002-11-26 16:32 ]</font>

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Nov 26, 2002 11:13 pm

Thanks for your advice, John. I won’t tell your secrets nobody and just keep ‘em to myself! We need to post times, and this weekend couldda been it. But it’s all about giving thanx without giving a sh*t and practicing a multi-day gluttony...Pity.

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Post by Chris Chaput » Sat Nov 30, 2002 5:50 am

I really need to come here more often. Excuse me if this question has been asked and answered but...

I see only three "standards":
1) 100 straight cones
2) .1 second cone penalty (unlimited)
3) timing that starts and stops at the first and last cone

If this is the case, we could experiment (on our own) with setting courses on hills of various steepneses and with using different cone spacing on different sections of the course. The farther apart the cones, the more distance you have to travel but speeds could increase.

Any ideas about the optimum distance?

This is definitely going to be a workout.

Eric Groff
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Post by Eric Groff » Sat Nov 30, 2002 8:13 am

Hey Chris,
Remember the 80 cone killer that you Hester and I did last year, That was the most exhausting day of slalom in my life, All I remember is it was HOT, Hester Puked, I was sore for a week, and you wanted to add more cones, Now I remember why I dont like you......... Just Kidding Hope all is well with your family.
Arab

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Post by Nasse Lippen » Sat Nov 30, 2002 9:49 am

is there a standard size for cones?

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