Flatland pumping

[Erin Riffel]

I've been trying to improve my slalom pump by getting out on the flats and pumping my TS board. Right now I am running rtx/s 106's with white Khiros on the front and blue on the back. I have found the deck to be very loose with this combo and actually this 'play' seems to allow me more pumping action than the movement that my former combo of Bones bushings did. I haven't tried this rather loose set up on a downhill course yet but am imagining that it would probably be too floppy.

I am also practicing the cyber course and am still experimenting with what works best for that kind of slalom challenge in terms of board set up.

I just wondered what your thoughts were on how 'tight' the bushings should be for pumping. And what you felt the differences in bushing combos and truck 'tightness' would be for flatland practice vs running courses on a slope.


So eventually do you aim to run soft bushing but relatively snug so that the deck doesn't give side to side too readily but then again there isn't too much resitence from the bushing when you pump?

[Jonathan Harms]

Erin, great questions! They show that you are looking at more than just one aspect of riding.

If what fast racers ride is anything to go by, here's what I've observed. Most seem to ride a front truck that's loose to REALLY loose. I've stepped on boards ridden by Noah Heinle, Jason Mitchell, Gary Fluitt, Chris Barker and Mike Maysey, among others, and all of them seem to ride the front pretty loose. The Colorado guys especially seem to like the front pretty wiggly, almost floppy, for everything except really fast GS or Super G. It takes some getting used to, but the key is that the truck requires very little effort to make it go exactly where you want it to go, RIGHT NOW. Having it too tight just means a slower turn.

Keith Hollien, on the other hand, seems to ride a much firmer, springier setup, and it works for him.

How tight you ride the rear truck depends on your weight (heavier needs it tighter), how stiff the board is (a flexy board may need a looser truck setup) and what type of course. A bigger course allows you to ride a tighter rear truck, which can be a benefit to generating power around offsets. For a tight to very tight course, you will likely want to loosen that back truck somewhat. You may sacrifice a bit of pumping power, but you gain a lot of quickness. For learning to pump, I'd say somewhat loose is better, because at least then you won't be fighting against the bushings to get it to turn. You can always firm it up a bit if/when you decide you want more power.

I don't have as good an answer for whether you should ride it looser or tighter for flat vs. sloped. But in general, for myself, I try to ride the front as loose as I can, even on sloped courses, as long as it doesn't wobble at speed or feel too floppy. Hope that helps somewhat.

Finally, if you can, try riding other people's boards at practice sessions and see if they work better or worse for you.

[Bradley Elfman]

Jonathan,

Is it natural on a steep GS hill to feel a little wobble towards or at the bottom of the hill when the speed has maxed out, or is this a sign that either front or rear truck is a little loose?

Also, Erin is using blue bushings in back which is a medium soft bushing. I had thought that the rear always called for at least a medium hard bushing.

It is interesting what you noted about the looseness of Noah Heinle's, Jason Mitchell's, Gary Fluitt's, Chris Barker's and Mike Maysey's trucks, I assume for TS.

[Eddy Martinez]

Brad I once asked Keith Hollien and Mark Mc Ree at a slalom contest a couple of years ago " How can I improve my pump." The answer as soon as you get home place 50 cones 6 feet apart and run through them. When you are done do it again and again. Jack Smith also suggest lining up 25 cones 6 feet apart on a mellow slope, push as hard as you can and pump your way up through the cones. When you are able to make it through 25 cones with no problems add 10 more cones. Believe me it is quite a workout. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

[Bradley Elfman]

Eddy,

Did u say Jack Smith said 2 pump your way UP? the slope through the 25 cones? They both sound like quite a workout! Can u really pump up 24 x 6 ft up a small slope? what kind of start do u give yourself to do this? on the 50 cones on a flat, what minimum entry speed do you give yourself? I was doing this at the airport deck last night waiting for my friends plane to arrive, having a very very slight incline and little room 2 the first cone, and found it difficult 2 get started if i didn't have at least one strong push and then it was still really difficult 2 get through the first two cones. Settng a couple offsets early on forced me to push even harder.

If it wasn't dark out, I would head right outside, telling the missus I was emptying the garbage, and set up those 50 cones.

a former Texas amigo (El Paso and San Antonio)

[Erin Riffel]

Wow, really good advice and discussions guys! This is so useful because the one and only guy who skates slalom here is town has just left for a two month contract out of town. So I really rely on what people suggest and talk about in this forum. BTW, when I tried out his board it was indeed tighter than mine but then again he probably weighs 100 lbs more than me.

Yes it is interesting to hear about skaters running their trucks loose. I certainly feel that this has been the key to me learning to pump and is indeed a bonus when running a fast TS.

I like the idea of pumping back up the cones. Right now I am working hard to get through 25 cones on the flat. I can pump somewhat reasonably on the flat but when I add the cones I start to lose rather than gain speed as I go along. In the same way I find I can actually pump up small inclines now but again to do it through cones is beyond me at this point. But like Brad, the very idea makes me want to rush out into the dark parking lot and work on this skill some more. It is strangely satisfying to feel the board start to move and then accelerate on the flats without touching a foot down.

For the time being I am going to keep my bushings soft and run my trucks loose. It is working well at the moment. I just switched from some Cambrias to some Manx wheels so we'll see what effect that has on the pumping. Oh yeah, and I decided to add another wedge to the front truck too. It will be interesting to see if this makes much difference on the flats or if it is something that will be more obvious when running a tight course on the hill.

[Etienne de Bary]

Erin if you are an adult the white Khiro will not last long, these are meant for kids. You do not tell us much of your set up. My advice would be to frankly add wedge to your front truck and to put your blue bushings there, so that it will be very agile, but not soft, then put a big bushing like a clear Radikal on a flat ring inside your rear truck, which should be wedged so that it hardly turns at all... With such a set-up you should feel very safe and gain in confidence to engage ahead, rotating the top of your body before each turn.
Do a bit of freeride too, trying to alternate small turning pumping - your body standing quite straight and moving your arms a bit like you were jogging - and large curves pumping, very dancingly balancing your arms like you would take a sandbag on a truck on one side and try to throw it away as far as you can on the other, moving your body eloquently and not too fast, like a preacher with a whole crowd to convince all around him.
Pumping is magic.
When you are really too slow and feel blocked, bend your knees to do some very quick and easy turnings, or else do wider curves at first.
In my idea a bit of easy and fun freeride everyday will do more for your improvement than the harder discipline. Pleasure and beauty, this is the key.

[Martin Drayton]

Personally Etienne, I love the white Khiros in my front truck and I weigh 80KG(175lb)!
True, they don't last that long, but they burn bright.
I am definately an advocate of the loose front trucks school and have found that the least expensive white Khiros paired with cup washers last longer than the inserts for me.

Old blue Tracker bushings IMHO sit in between the Khiro whites and blues and if you can find some...they rule, and help provide the neccessary rebound required for a good pump!

[Etienne de Bary]

You know, this is just my suggestion... Racers who started racing in Europe in the 70/80th started with very loose trucks, doing very narrow tight.
At one point, it was one of my very first sessions (not So long ago) i saw Jani try to ride with no bushings, i suppose it was hard work for the pivot cups... This should be done with empty Seismics actually...
Every rider develops specific skills to adapt to all situations, including his own setting choices...

However on a very fast slope one may have confidence problems, pushing and breaking if regular is hazardeous and i guess with such a set-up a beginner will have more trouble keeping his balance than trying to pump.
And i'd say a set-up that resists a bit lets the rider impose decisions to the deck, not the deck to the rider, and develop a strong physical involvement.
Anyway, this is just a possible direction i point, you know...

[Claude Regnier]

The White Khiro's are perfect for really tight stuff! They are great for learning to pump. You may wear them out quicker if you weigh more but it's a small price to pay.

Wobbles will happen at high speeds going straight with looser trucks. The key is to tighten them down a little at a time if this Is happening. Key is being able to run the course (as a beginer hitting or not hitting cones is not the priority (learning to pump is) and accelerating through it as you progrees. If you feel the wobbles starting, continues the turn cycles till you slow down or the wobbles stop.

Don't panic, stay in control of the situation. If you panic, you'll tighten up then the board or trucks will control you! Ouch!

As far as the rear bushings again I don't think there is specific bushing (hardness) minimum. It's a matter of personal weight abd feel. The one definite is that the rear should Turn less quickly (tigher trucks, harder Bushings?) . A harder bushing is not necessary for a tighter truck is it?

Go to go. Internet is dying. I may be off-line for a few weeks. tyr my msn e-mail cerslalom@msn.com or 613-798-7275

[Erin Riffel]

Again, I really appreciate all your replies. Yes Etienne, pumping is magic! And you described so eloquently how a lot of different motions contribute to propelling the board forward. I agree the activity must be fun but for me even the discipline of hard cone placements on a flat area can be as enjoyable as free riding along a bike path.

Your comments about the white bushings/loose trucks have been very useful. At 125 lbs I am used to using soft bushings on my longboards and have, since the early days of learning to skate, tended towards very loose trucks. When I switched from Bones bushings to white Khiros on my slalom deck the improvement in my pumping made me think, at first, that the soft bushings must have been "cheating"! LOL That's how much easier the pumping became with the Khiros!

At this time my front truck is only wedged about 6 degrees with a stock hard wedge riser. I am waiting for my Khiro wedge kit to arrive and then I intend to wedge the front much more. But how much more? Does the wedged angle on the front also contribute significantly to pumping or is it more of an aid to quick turns as needed in a fast downhill run?

[Etienne de Bary]

Slope under a RtX could be 1 Khiro full wedge pad to 2 Khiro full Wedge pad, cutting a flat shockpad in slices allows fine tuning.
For a 50cm/20" usual wheelbase i'd add a little 4mm slice under the rear bolts to the Khiro firm wedge pad (not the stiff one, the full one), for a 36" deck i could go upto one stiff + one firm. hope this makes sense (was it writen 11° under that big pad i use for the 3dm cruiser ?)

You will have to tighten more as you add wedge to keep the same feeling... ...

[Jani Soderhall]

i saw Jani try to ride with no bushings, i suppose it was hard work for the pivot cups... This should be done with empty Seismics actually...

I did it with Seismics, yes. The japanese slalomers I met in the 90's were almost all without bushings on the front truck.

/Jani

[Etienne de Bary]

Does the wedged angle on the front also contribute significantly to pumping or is it more of an aid to quick turns as needed in a fast downhill run?

yes it does !

[Eddy Martinez]

Brad on the pumping up hill I give myself about 20 feet to the first cone. I saw Claude at the Gathering 4 win the uphill pumping contest on Sunday and he allmost made it all the way to the top of the hill. It was an amazing to watch. On pumping through the 50 cones only 2 pushes. This forces you to accelerate through the cones. The cones are not offset, they are straight. Once you get going try to look down the line. look ten cones ahead at all times, your rhythm takes over. One thing I love about this site is that everyone is willing to share their knowledge. TOO COOL. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

[Mike Cividino]

here is some uphill through cones, you might have seen this on silverfish.

http://lsv.stylesunknown.com/directive0 ... uphill.MOV

[Jonathan Harms]

OK, tough guy, now do it switch-stance.

Seriously, though, once you get the feel of pumping, doing it uphill is no big deal. And it does look pretty cool.

To relate this back to Erin's questions: Don't worry, Erin, you're not "cheating." A big part of slaloming is learning how to set up your board so it works well for you on the terrain you ride the most. Another big part is learning to adapt that "basic" setup to different terrain and courses. If you keep challenging yourself, a little at a time, you may even surprise yourself with what you can accomplish. Keep experimenting, and keep asking questions.

[Mike Cividino]

OK, tough guy, now do it switch-stance.

.

coming soon. I hope.

[Eddy Martinez]

Gumby one of the Texas Outlaws runs slalom courses both surf stance and switch at 27+, that is how you say SCARY!!!!!! As Keith Hollien says " Friends don't let friends ride slalom courses switch stance". Damm you Gumby. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.