UK Slalom

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Chris Linford
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UK Slalom

Post by Chris Linford » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:44 pm

Well the European season's main events are rapt up. The UK are not mentioned and the same old events get top places again, making our events irrelevent (again).

If this is what you want then fine, I have not been contacted to help develop the season and I suspect no one else in the UK has either.
Last year many people thought I had lost it, stating that next year would be different, how wrong you all are.

The Euro season and the World ranking are wrong and biased.

Have fun in 2005, I won't be there to support you.

Chris
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Post by Joe Iacovelli » Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:38 pm

Chris,

When and where are the UK races?

Joe

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:15 am

Chris,

Have a look at the World Ranking European Region to get updated of what is going on.

The single Major status has gone to Paris this year. (First time)
Grüningen has got a Main status.
Stockholm has got a Main status. (First time) European Championships
One more Main status exist: Antibes the only candidate so far

The four Prime statuses
Hannover has got a Prime Status. (First Time)
Three more Prime statuses to go: Riga the only candidate so far (will be the first time)

Prime and Basic events have increased points from this season on.

New Plain status added.

New Time advance rule
The whole idea with the current World Ranking status/point system is that racers will know the status of the competitions before they plan there travel. We can’t expect that all racers can enter all competitions during the season so it’s important to be able to plan in advance. The higher the status the more important it is for racers to know in advance. Since no such limits have been used before they are not very hard. Here are the minimum limits on how much in advance a competition with a certain status should be set and decided.

Major: 4 months
Main : 3 months
Prime: 2 months
Basic: 1 month
Plain: (no time advance needed)


Have a look at www.slalomranking.com for even more info.

There it is. You are now updated of what has been going on during the last 4-5 months.

Donald Campbell
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Post by Donald Campbell » Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:00 am

the german side certainly does have an interest to see some uk-action this year.
this is LONG OVERDUE

how about doing brands hatch f.e.?

show some dates and receive support,chris

cheers
don

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Post - it!

Post by Claude Regnier » Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:34 pm

Chris! There is no conspiracy here. Those who follow this site and planned on hosting an event posted dates and events in which they were planning.

Anyone can ask to have their event added. What are you planning? Some of us would like to know?

Some events are not posted here because some people don't check out this site or care to post here. This particular thread for 2005 races started a long time ago. Just submit and Rick puts it in it's place. As far as Majors and such (realisickly they should be subject to change (if needed).

Hope to see you this season, EH!
Many Happy Pumps!

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Getting organized

Post by Jani Soderhall » Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:58 pm

Chris,

So far, as you know, the slalom scene is completely disorganized. Each event organizer decides whether or not he wants to run a race. He also decides how to best promote the event, to attract the skaters he wants to come. He also sets his own standards for how the event is run and what rules should apply.

Being active on this and other forums is one way to make your events known.
In our disorganized situation, nobody will do that job for you.

It's not too late. You can jump in and promote your event at any time and chances are you'll be able to attract skaters even if you a bit late, as long as you promote your race in a good way. But we all agree that, the earlier - the better.


World Cup 2005
Many organizers (in Europe) have choosen to call their events World Cup this year. Nobody has objected, although in reality a World Cup should probably be a limited selection of high quality events with a geographical distribution that an international organization has agreed upon. Such a race series should have a common set of rules and have a good organization. We have talked about it before but we haven't reached gotten there.

For 2006 I think we should limit the number of events called World Cup and make it a selection of what we together believe will be the best races of the year. However that requires a lot of cooperation and that very early on. One way to make that happen would be an external sponsor, that's what happens in other sports. That way the selected locations would receive some funding to help them run their race. I doubt we can find the funding so we'll have to do with our own cooperation and best judgement.


ISSA - Take the opportunity now
With the revival of the ISSA I'm hoping that we can continue to improve international cooperation. This forum is the place to discuss topics relating to events, rules, guidelines, promotion and so on. Those who wish to influence the direction of the ISSA can become a member ($25). That gives you the right to vote in questions which are selected for voting.

Read more in this thread:
viewtopic.php?p=22003

As you will notice in there, you have already been given one vote. Use this opportunity to make the best out of slalom's future.

/Jani

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Post by John Gilmour » Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:29 pm

I just went to the UK site and I did not see a schedule posted as yet. That's good so we can still do something to fix this.

I think slalomers should see Simon Levene defending his Island in an event which counts for World status points. On a fast tight tech course while balancing a cigar ash- the guy is unbelieveable.

Let's make absolutely sure to integrate the UK into the schedule this year with 1- 2 races as Primes and with the PROMISE that if the events are run well (according to some preset rules) that the event should be upgraded in status the following year.

I think that there could be a roving status (for perhaps one of the mains) so that each location might have the chance to become a mains event (So foreign competitors will eventually compete at every European/UK venue).

Further more- though the UK guys might seem a bit "Punk" in attitude don't let that put you off of them. They are true enthusiasts to the core.... perhaps some of the most into it of any skaters. So when they speak out- its mostly because of their passion for slalom. IMHO.

I think in order for this to work out we will need more cooperation from both sides in regards to transport, and lodging. It is very costly for the UK skaters to come and compete in Europe and also the other way around.


I would like to suggest a discounted rate for UK skaters to skate in European races and a discounted rate for European skaters attending UK races. I also think there should be a huge effort to try and put up the skaters at each others houses or to secure lodging at very very reduced cost.

The cost should be so reduced as to make it ridiculous not to consider attending UK events as European skaters and vice versa.

The best example I can think of was when the pricing was set for the original US Mail system. The system initally ran at a deficit. Delivering letters for less than the cost of the manpower required. This "Sewed uo" the country and made interstate commerce strengthen. It helped bring together various local economies. Now that this has been done for the mail system- our mail system doesn't work at a deficit and turns a tidy profit.

So I am not suggesting that we all subsidize the skaters contest expenses for ever... but I think for the next year or two it would be a good idea.

One way to do this would be to pre-book rooms that slept say 4-6 people. And have the UK skater stay for 1/4 price as one of the 4-6 people. The others in the room would still pay less than if they booked alone.

The UK skaters would have to try and secure some low cost lodging (How about some vacant boarding schools during the summer?) and provide a picnic or so for the other skaters.



Last thing the UK or Europeans want is some American from Boston telling them what they "Should" do. But I just want to make it easier for all ponts to be allocated for all racers traveling whether from USA or Japan or where ever.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour

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Post by Glenn S » Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:46 pm

Chris,
Please take what I have to say constructively.

It is not nessasaraly the responsibility of others outside the UK to bring world-class races to UK!

Why not make only constructive positive posts about what you are going to do to "make it happen" for the UK in the world of slalom racing.

From what I've seen in video clips of Brands Hatch is a World Class location that should host a multi-day world class event. And I'm sure that there are other great locations for races in the UK. However, it is mostly the responibility of those that live there to bring it on!

But this "this country that country" or "this website that website" shit sucks. Promoters of races should post on all available resources. Post on ncdsa.com, slalomskateboarder.com, silverfishlongboarding.com, or any other slalom resource, without prejudice. Leave the egos behind and move forward for the betterment of the sport.

Make world-class skateboard slalom events in the UK happen. Do it!

If you need the help of Jani or others to make it happen don't be affraid to ask for it.

And I would ask of Jani and anyone involved in the World Ranking to offer help, and help make it happen in the UK. They've asked for it, in their own way, and you know it. Step up and help!

It is time to get past these types of topics. Don't bring it down. Let the world participate in the thriving slalom scene of the UK!!!

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sun Feb 20, 2005 2:24 am

John,

You make it sound like UK was some underdeveloped country lost in the middle of the Atlantic. Last time I looked at the map UK was in Europe. It's not UK and the Europeans. We are all Europeans. And having London nearby your home is the perfect place for taking Ryan Air (cheapest flights in Europe) everywhere you like for almost nothing. If there is someone needing the help to enter more competitions it is the eastern European countries and Russia.

I haven't seen any punk skaters since the middle of the 80's. And even if they did exist, who cares. Just bring your f-g board and come out skating. The more the merrier. And if some decide to stay at home, that's ok too, but please don't come whining about it afterwards.

There are a lot of English skaters traveling to competitions in Europe. They are having a good time. The ones staying at home loose out. And that goes for all skaters. Not only UK skaters. If we should feel sorry for anyone we should be sorry for ALL of those skaters not traveling abroad for other competitions for whatever reason.

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HMMMMMM.......

Post by Marty Schaub » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:54 am

Can an old schooler reply to this without ticking off either side?

I agree that if you do not self promote, you will not succeed. If you do not have a worldwide singular set of standards, rules and standings you will not succeed. If you cannot agree you will not succeed.

Get my overall sentiment here?

If you are going to have world championships, world cups or what ever you wish to call races, they have to lead to something in a standardized format....worldwide....period.

Otherwise you will continue to have division over whoms and whats and what things truly mean. You need to examine racing on a worldwide perspective and plan accordingly. You can have world sanctioned points events and other non-sanctioned, non points events that are just as important.

What you need to do is decide what you want the outcome to be and work to achieve it. Otherwise you will continue to have us vs. them division, aka: chaos. If you don't agree on sanctioning how can you crown a "World Champion"?????

Skiing and Ice skating are fine examples. Maybe you already have all of this, but then I have to ask, what's all the hot air about?
La Costa Boy For Life

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Post by Chris Linford » Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:58 am

Scandinavia no longer exists according to Corky. Nations do not exist, we are all Europeans, not French, German etc.

All I ask is that the UK should be informed about who gets what status and have vote and a say. I the last 30 years we have hosted 1 (ONE) international event that anyone outside the UK came to and that was Euro Skate 1982. This is not down to start ramps, track booking, tightness etc only, there are other agendas.

I believe the UK is one of the most proactive slalom nations in the world. I have pushed jani to start again, Pierre to compete an tried to kick off a euro scene by traveling to every "mainland" event I could.

I tried everything I could to encourage entry, set up a euro league etc.

I do not understand why we are not asked, or even informed, not just now - ever. At the start I was keen not to repeat the situation of the 1980's where we just tried to trash any competition, but this is where we are again.

I no longer run the UKSSA so I am not he person for this anymore.

Chris

For those who want dates for Brands it takes time to book, unless you have $25,000. If the delay on this means that we can not have an event then it is your loss.
Clingfilm from England.
LSD

Vincent Berruchon
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Re: UK Slalom

Post by Vincent Berruchon » Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:44 pm

Chris Linford wrote:Well the European season's main events are rapt up. The UK are not mentioned and the same old events get top places again, making our events irrelevent (again).

If this is what you want then fine, I have not been contacted to help develop the season and I suspect no one else in the UK has either.
Last year many people thought I had lost it, stating that next year would be different, how wrong you all are.

The Euro season and the World ranking are wrong and biased.

Have fun in 2005, I won't be there to support you.

Chris
So what is the correct answer:
- nobody wanna race in this rainy country??
or
- UK slalomers exclude the rest of the World from their races, keeping events secret??

I didn't meet nice english racers last year, for example in France and in Germany, I could add that the only thing I can hear from people from this rainy country are complaints and nothing else!

But in fact we'd all be happy to attend great races in your f##### island!
So when do you plan your race?
Lot of us are setting up our trip program for the season to come but for the moment there is nothing about UK because nothing is announced.
(edited 1 time, but waiting for Jean Paul corrections to get something understandable)
Last edited by Vincent Berruchon on Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chris Linford
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Post by Chris Linford » Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:04 pm

Vincent

$$$ so££y did **t under$$$nd the F****** you said.

Check your stories, it was all announced, and with regards to this year i refer you to my previous answer. If you have difficulties understanding I'll refer you last years.

I seem to remember it rained more in France, yes FRANCE, all week end in PARIS - FRANCE. We did not have a rained off event.

W*****

Chris
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Post by Donald Campbell » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:55 pm

no need for headbutting each other.
understood?


as i see it,there is a problem.
right?

so let's see what the issa can do to solve that probelm,this would definitely be a good starting point.

here's my suggestion.
chris is retired and waiting for his wheelchair(don't be pissed,chris,just read on...)
the issa is a cool community and wants to push the scene.

so,as soon as brands is confirmed,we ALL take our hands,forget about anymosities and travel to the uk.
and i f..cken mean WE ALL.
brands gets a main status.-why not? we want to push the event,so we have to give...

apparently the english scene needs a LOT of attention from the rest of the world in order to grow or to establish its place,be it solely for a race track.


i,for myself,offer physical help for the days when the race is being held.
i don't care about a ramp or push-start.
i will gladly be a cone guy inbetween racing.
i will raise personal funds for free water.
i definitely think that there's quite a few folks around here,who could throw in their share in helping to make the uk happen again

and now...

i want to see some action from the rest here on this forum.

we all have to step back from the standards we are used to sometimes,if it is for a good cause.

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Post by Chris Linford » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:45 pm

Donald,
I don't like the wheelchair bit but I read on and it makes some sense. To be honest the main issue is that the Uk is consulted. I we knew then we could plan better, or know when to throw in the towel (give up).

If I can get support I will get some form of ramp for Brands, but you must realise I am in their hands to get time and space and that restricts the length of notice I can give. However i normally hope for a few months anyway.

Accomodation can be arranged and lifts for anyone who needs it.

Personally i think Brands is worth it.


Thanks for the input, let me see what I can arrange.

Chris
Clingfilm from England.
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Post by Chris Linford » Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:48 pm

Post script

The UK still had the largest series outside the FCR last year. We do not need developing nor dropping standards for. You will need to raise your game at Brands.

Its not to make it happen again but it may help others help in the organisation.

chris
Clingfilm from England.
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Post by Vincent Berruchon » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:25 pm

Chris Linford wrote:Vincent

$$$ so££y did **t under$$$nd the F****** you said.

Check your stories, it was all announced, and with regards to this year i refer you to my previous answer. If you have difficulties understanding I'll refer you last years.

I seem to remember it rained more in France, yes FRANCE, all week end in PARIS - FRANCE. We did not have a rained off event.

W*****

Chris
Chris, sorry if you cannot understand my bad english. I should ask Jean Paul "The Professor"' to check my post next time (but posts on working hours have to be written quickly!).
The only thing I can add after my bad joke is that you really can see that all these people here are just trying to move thing forward - to create a strong slalom scene and to see more slalom races all around the world.
You probably tried to do the same on your side and I'm probably to young to really know who you are and what was/is the UK scene.
But Jani, Detlef, Hans, Pierre, Jack, Jadranko, Alex, and a lot more are just trying to organize things in a democratic way
So no use complaining or whining
BE POSITIVE - react and propose

at least give us contacts to join your compatriots.
Perhaps you can tell them to contact others event organizers and why not ISSA.
They could also check this forum if they can (and all others sites)

I hope we will race in UK soon
does status matters so much?

PS: yes of course it's raining in France too, where do you think are going clouds that pass through your sky now!!

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:48 am

Chris wrote:Scandinavia no longer exists according to Corky. Nations do not exist, we are all Europeans, not French, German etc.
US west coast no longer exists according to Chris. States do not exist, they are all Americans, not Californians, Hawaiians etc.


Chris, I hear you are coming back to "you should have consulted us" over and over again. I think this may be the very kernel of the problem. I think this is a very backwards kind of thinking and I don't hear it from anywhere else. If we Swedes were sitting up here in the cold and waiting for others to consult us we could have been sitting here until the end of time. But then again we didn't and voila, we now have a European Championship. What a surprise.

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Post by Donald Campbell » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:32 am

now,can we get this sorted out in an orderly manner,please?

as it seems-or as it is there's interest in a uk race.

lot's of folks willing to travel also.

everybody step back from the aggressive style a bit.

we are talking about doing/organising a contest.

so first of all you guys calm down.

second and most important-things need to get sorted out.

this should happen now.

the feud that's going on here will only lead to lots of folks not racing in the uk this year.

brands is gonna be the place?

let's get things rolling then and carry on

chris:wherever you need help or input-ask...

i am damn sure,some folks will want to help.

i want to help and i bet my sorry ass that also vince(supersupernice guy,by the way) and corky will do the same.


let's talk about process next time

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Post by Jadranko Radovanovic » Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:10 am

How the statuses was decided this year, was not correct.

I'm every time on the Forum. But i don't know why the Worlds has changed from Paris to Morro... The change is not a problem for me, but the communication is.

Who has to decide about the statuses are the organizers and not the rider's.

I think there is another way to decide about the statuses.

Take the criterias about the organisation. Give every criteria point's. for important criteria like starting field more points than for a less important criteria. We (the organizer) decide about the points what we give to an event. We calculate alle points and at the end of the season than we can watch which race has how many points and the status for next year is clear. We needn't to talk as many as this year.

I worked for the goverment here in switzerland and this is our way to decide !!!

Okay if you are interest in how this method work than i will work somthing out. If not, than i have time for other things....

I hope to see some people from the central EU in RIGA and UK !!!

Cheers Jadranko

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Post by Donald Campbell » Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:30 am

interesting suggestion,jadranko.

bring on the good stuff

i want to add that i think that a lot of posts being made during this topic harm the sport and its progress in general.
since we are all a bit older,we should definitely change the approach on things

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