"Extreme Sports" Label

Brian Morris · Post by **Brian Morris** » Sun Oct 27, 2002 4:13 am

There's been alot of talk in this forum about exposing our sport to other skaters, an alot of negative talk about slalom having an "Extreme Sports" label. Personally I don't see anything wrong with slalom having an extreme label, personally I think it would attract alot more people to the sport. Yeah, there is a chance alot of kooks might take it up just because its called an extreme sport, but think of all the doors that could open just from the name. Slalom could be in the X-Games, the Gravity Games, maybe even the Olympics. Look how much snowboarding, and vert/street skating took off after the X-Games.

Kids are strange in that respect, where if they think something could be dangerous or their parents wouldn't like it, they flock towards it. Now, I'm not saying parents shouldn't allow their children to slalom because it is a terribly dangerous sport, but it does have its risks, just like any other skateboarding discipline.

A label can help create a sport as much as it can destroy it. Right now, to keep slalom alive, the youth are the only way to keep it going. Its good to see people like Gary Holl who holds camp Holl every week to help out newbies, Adam at NCDSA and Adam at Slalomskateboarder for hosting amazing websites giving us access to other skaters, vendors, and contests. Keep it up everyone!

Regards,
"Brain"

_________________
Wobbler

[ This Message was edited by: Brian Morris on 2002-10-26 23:14 ]

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:45 pm

so i guess you practice slalom very secretely and forbid your kids slaloming in the hope of meeting them in the cones ?

Kevin M. Gamble · Post by **Kevin M. Gamble** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 11:24 pm

I think that the "Extreme Sport" label itself isn’t a problem, but rather what unscrupulous race promoters might include in a race to make it more extreme just to attract a bigger TV market and the almighty dollar . I’m not EVEN going to suggest any ideas that might be added to a race to make it more extreme.

My personal observations of a few streetluge events confirm my opinion that the race promoters get more mileage out of multiple crashes, rather than "clean" racing. This is understandable, and both the racers and spectators expect and plan for it, ie. leathers, haybales, etc.

Is this what we want slalom to turn into? I know I don't.

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:17 am

The other question is... why? Calling ourselves "Extreme" isn't an instant ticket into the X-Games anyway. How soon we forget that, early on in the X-Games history there were some inline racing disciplines, including downhill. The problem was that too many senior citizens (35 yrs. plus) were doing well and winning. Gradually (or not so gradually) those events disappeared from the X-Games. I haven't followed anything but some of the vert skateboarding and Freestyle Motocross for the past few years, but don't I also understand correctly that they aren't doing downhill skateboarding, and there's less and less streetluge? What makes anyone think they're going to want a real racing sport, with a significant "senior citizen" population? The X-Games are a youth fashion statement (despite some of the incredible talents and abilities of the athletes), they're not about what's extreme and what isn't.

Anybody that has ever seen a world-class downhill skier careen down the Hahnenkamm course in Kitzbuhel, Austria knows that it's extreme. Extremely extreme, but that doesn't mean it belongs on the X-Games. No, Skier-X belongs on the X-Games, because it's really not much more than jostling, pack skiing, but it IS confrontational, exciting visually and very personality driven. Hmmm... sounds like a fashion to me.

[ This Message was edited by: Andy Bittner on 2002-11-09 19:18 ]

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 1:31 am

Well, I'll repeat myself here for the third time what I have said twice in "another slalom forum":

Slalom Skateboarding is not going to "take off" by getting kick flippers to run cones. The future growth of this sport is with guys who snowboard, wakeboard, boogie board, surf board, snow and water ski.

The reason is simple: people who do those kinds of flow-motion sports "get it." They don't have to be "tuned into" slalom. They know all about carving, turning, pumping and competing. To them slalom skateboarding is just another opportunity to do what they already do only they can do it at home and don't have to wait for winter or high tide.

We have about as much chance of "converting" kick flippers as we do freestyle ice skaters. Whether we call it "extreme", "disciplined," "martial arts" or "post modern expressionism" doesn't matter. What will matter is taking this sport to places and people who will instantly see the advantage of riding cones on asphalt. That's around surf shops, the beach, the slopes, the lakes and the rivers.

Mike Johnson · Post by **Mike Johnson** » Sun Nov 10, 2002 10:22 am

"Extreme" denotes a parameter and i like to think that slalom skateboarding doesnt really have any....i also like to think that modern slalom should sit back a little from the X and Gravity games format as viewing figures and interest from the public are steadily dropping....slalom should start cutting its own niche and investigate BoarderX events and events similar to the Red Bull Urban Waves race. Just a thought.

Brian Morris · Post by **Brian Morris** » Sat Nov 16, 2002 2:49 am

I don't mean changing the sport any, especially not border X. Maybe I have a bad taste in my mouth because I broke my femur, but the Red Bull event wasn't much like slalom. I know converting a few kickflippers won't help the sport much, but once the kickflippers really understand that there is more to skateboarding than vert ramps and street courses. Anybody who was at my race in Jersey, you saw how amazed the kids were at everybody racing, and especially when Vlad set some courses after the race and flew through them. I think he even sold a few Planker boards to the kids. These kids saw that slalom is extreme, that it takes an extreme person to really fly through cones, not just any kid who picks up a skateboard and learns to ollie.

"Brain"

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Mon Nov 25, 2002 7:33 pm

mmh, isn't it more Xcellent than Xtreme ?

Henry Hester · Post by **Henry Hester** » Mon Nov 25, 2002 8:10 pm

To me, Slalom Skateboarding is more of a participant sport than a spectator sport. We leave no wake or spray trail and the "flow factor" is very hard to capture on film. Extreme. Not. Most of the guys that race are in their mid 30s'.

I think, if you look closer to the past, you might find the future. Back in the 70s' heyday, we treated slalom like Golf. Bets and challenges were flying all over. Piercy, myself, Ryan and Skoldberg would have never shown up just to "run cones". We had to have something on the line. Maybe only $3.00 on Sunday races but there had to be smack... Something we are missing in this new PC crowd.

Bittner, I can bet you with one arm tied behind my back and both eyes blindfolded. Vlad, you suck and I can run 4 ft cones. Cross, you ain't nothin'. Brown Bomber? Maybe at West LA but bring it to Stink Hill. Olson, you suck too but I'll need one-second because I suck more.

Where has the fun gone? When we take things too seriously, things get distorted and weird. After all, we are just a bunch a mid lifers on wheels. Let's get over the Extreme Challenge and get to some hair-raising handicap events. Fix those gates to open at intervals equal to the skater's qulifying times. Then, run Pros and Ams against each other. Have Pro/Am events.

Cook more Hot Dogs.

Henry Hester · Post by **Henry Hester** » Mon Nov 25, 2002 8:15 pm

Hell, I can bet you and then beat you.

[ This Message was edited by: Henry Hester on 2002-11-25 14:16 ]

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Mon Nov 25, 2002 9:50 pm

Bet me? Yes. Beat me? Maybe. However, if you're going to tie one arm behind your back and wear a blindfold, I'm just gonna knock you down and take your wallet! Mugging blind old men is easy.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Mon Nov 25, 2002 10:35 pm

Bravo Henry!

I think you have captured the way I would like to look at slalom skateboarding. Yes, this is a "internet" site and with it goes racing slalom skateboarding, focused, intense, all that, weird no doubt but fun, it's a way to "spread the word." You have spread some great words here on a good subject.

I would personally like to say, "thank you" for sharing.

Is it EXTREME? Not even. It's sort of boring in comparing it with pool or pipe skateboarding. Slalom is easy, really easy. One man's course setting on a hill may make it harder for some, but there is no extreme in almost all slalom skateboarding. It's just about clean lines, equipment and technique. Take it a step further with your experience and a like minded group and you have some good times on the hill, akin to your "Golf" analogy. Dig it.

So I like your soulful look at it. The reference, which I enjoy as well is excellent. Talking the talk...

I've always liked solo sports starting at a early age. Hang gliding, surfing, skateboarding (all disciplines) snow surfing and most recently, flysurfing (kite boarding, kite surfing etc) which is almost as intense as hang gliding. At the moment, for "thrills" I'll take out the PL "Arc" and my Liquid Force wakestyle board and go kite surfing. But this is done on solo beaches in Mexico for me, not for anyone else. I challenge myself.

I used to talk "smack" with my friends before I would take off from Mingus Mnt on a flight in my wing. I understand now what you mean.

When I look at slalom skateboarding and I think of the individuals that have given me the loads of shit, it blows me away. Slalom skateboarding is your life? Man, it's a lot of fun but...

But getting together with some friends and running cone, way different feel. I like it, it's cool, good feelings, good times and to be a part of you guys in what ever means, thanks.

Your post was one of the best that I have read on slalom skateboarding, thanks for sharing.

Hopefully, there is room for all here.

[quote]
On 2002-11-25 14:15, Henry Hester wrote:
Hell, I can bet you and then beat you.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Tue Nov 26, 2002 10:59 pm

I do think slalom can be a great spectator sport.

It was in 1976. We would have hundreds of people line the entire length of a course standing within 3 feet of the cones- perhaps 5- 8 people deep. The people would part as the skaters went through- and jump back in to watch them go by.

We were flying through tight cones at very high speeds- even on archaic gear. The hill was steep. It looked impossible. Yet there were 20-40 skaters in Central park who really ripped.

Today Vert skateboarding has been around for so long and bled to other sports like Halfpipe snowboarding/BMX/Inline that people are not so blown away by vert skating. It seems "normal" now. Hell, it seems every small town in America is getting some public vert park built for them nowadays. Back in the days of skateboarder magazine we thought vert was impossible.

Well to many people today a good fast TS course still looks impossible. I have skated TS a lot and still when I saw Noah, Vlad, UR13, Troy, Tway and others go through the course at Da' Farm 2- I WAS AMAZED. They made it look impossible. They made it look good. I was able to appreciate the course fully as a spectator. And perhaps even more if I were a non skater.

I am sure they inspired a lot of people to try it. As for TS being something only a few can do- these guys proved otherwise.

Though At times I wonder if the public might want to see something added to the sport like if there was some paddle that a skater had to swat after his run- or a big ball bearing that a skater had to throw into a magnetic cone.................hmm that's rollerball.

I think we have all the needed elements for an exciting visual sport.

Henry Hester · Post by **Henry Hester** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:20 am

JG, after reading your post, I must agree 100%. There are elements of spectator appeal but as you said... It's got to look impossible (TS), it's got to be up close and personal (TS) and it's got to be sexy (you).

Why we keep our spectators on the curb is beyond me. I know there is nothing in the insurance "rules" about spectators being so far away from the skaters. Let's move'em closer and skate the tunnel of love scaring every man, woman and child present. Just watch your ankles...

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:50 am

Just when I think that I am having enough fun slaloming, Henry Hester comes along and makes posts like these!
I slalom becasue it's fun and challenging. There is really not much more that we would ever need to show in order to generate more interest in the sport. I HATE labels like extreme. What the hell is extreme about going between cones standing on a plank with wheels???
Let's gear our "message," if you will, around FUN and people will come--without the labels.
Hell, I'm here, busting my butt to learn to pump a skateboard, and no word except "FUN" got me to start. And since I am a pretty average, ordinary guy, I would imagine that most others would be attracted to slalom for the same reason I was.

Henry Hester · Post by **Henry Hester** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 7:05 pm

Point taken.

However, most of the fun in Slalom racing is in whatever strategy you can gleam from it. Learning to run the cones, the technique and the skill set involved is pretty much a given. It's fun.

The real fun comes from your head like... when you're on the starting ramp for one last chance, you've got to put in a burner run and Chaput walks up from behind and whispers he's "got photos of your daughter". Getting over the initial shock while Economy is calling "Racers ready!" combined with holding back a belly laugh is what it's all about. For me.

Terry Kirby · Post by **Terry Kirby** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:22 am

Henry, how about the conversation between Kenny Mollica and John Gilmour at the Roe tent on Sat at La Costa after they had finished race one of their match up. That was classic, exciting ,funny, and had us all at the edge of our seats. Kenny was still propositioning John ON THE START RAMPS! If that was ever captured on film it would have been the best clip of slalom racing ever. Period. I still smile when I think about it. TK

Henry Hester · Post by **Henry Hester** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:39 am

TK, you were almost crying. "You two guys are going to ruin slalom!!!"

Now... looking back... your totally get it. BTW, welcome to the Pro ranks for 2003 but you can't beat me cause I'll just bet myself I can beat you.

Henry Hester · Post by **Henry Hester** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:41 am

Do I need to retell the story of "Mollica and Gilmour"?

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:44 am

Do tell, do tell!

Terry Kirby · Post by **Terry Kirby** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:55 am

800.00 dollars. Gilmour you fool.

Go ahead Henry, Tell the story.

Terry Kirby · Post by **Terry Kirby** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 4:08 am

A Short Story By Terence Kirby "The Day Slalom Almost Died"

It was the Bob Turner Memorial 2002 at La Costa California. The Birthplace of Slalom. All the names were there to win the first ever Bob Turner memorial Slalom Race. Dunn, Ransom, Hester, Evans, Cross, Masey, Chicken, Olson, Hackett... and two men who wanted this one very Badly, John Gilmour from Boston and Kenny Mollica from Ohio. John flew in from Boston and met up w/ me and Bruce Brewington at the airport. He had just come off a win in the Pro GS at Breckinridge and was hungry . This race meant plenty to John for many reasons.Primarily the history between John and the Turner brand... John was also Broke.
Kenny Mollica had placed 2nd last year on this very hill but since then was stuck in a "just missed the podium "funk. He continually threw down top qualifying runs only to be bumped down to equal fifth in many of the recent races. Kenny likes to win. He needed this weekend to be his Swan song. For Him, For Robin, For Ohio. HE was not broke.
As fate would have it these two slalom racers met each other in the round of Eight. Both had posted good qualifying times and defeated other racers in the rounds of 32 and 16.
John is a hugely talented racer yet sometimes lacks focus, if he is on, you are doomed. If he is fiddling w/ trucks and wheels minutes before the race and has not had his customary warm bath and steak for breakfast you have a shot at beating one of the greats. This day he looked as if he was on.
Kenny is a consistent and fierce competitor, he is powerful, takes risks, and is very comfortable at speed. He is prone to wearing disguises and being silly and even offensive. Today he had his game face on. What happened next shocked and stunned this slalom rookie and nearly put the slalom world on its ear. Kenny and John had just finished their first race. It was VERY close with Kenny edging John out by hundredths. Kenny was in the faster lane, John the slower. What was going through Kennys mind at this time only he could tell. Kenny is a gambler and to him the odds did not look good with Gilmour going into that fast lane.Remember, Kenny was sick of 5ths and 9ths.As they walked up the hill both men stopped at the Roe Tent where myself and Henry Hester were watching the show.
It was then I heard something I never thought I would hear a racer say. "400.00 bucks if you let me advance" "I know you need the money" "400.00...cash?" " How about 600.00?" OK, 600.00 and I'll forget the 500.00 you owe me from folly beach" "Hmmmm" . I jump in "John for gods sake you're a racer!!! have you no pride?" Hester chimes in"do it john, this is pro racing here, take the money and sit down." TK "my god I am witnessing the death of slalom right here right now, please John!"Hester, maniacal laughter,, Kenny "800.00" JG, "800.00?" TK "John you can win this whole thing don't do it " Hester"dude take the 800.00 at least its a sure thing" I am devastated, Hester is loving it. John is quite, Kenny is pressuring him. As I hear their names called over the PA they leave for the ramps. I feel feint and lightheaded, Hester looks like a crackhead after a huge hit off the pipe. The two meet at the ramp. At this point I think I hear Kenny say"1000.00 dollars dude." As Ed Economy signals, the timer to begin the beep sequence I see John mouth the words " I can't do it Kenny" BEEEEEEEEP. Kenny, baffled and confused ,let John get the start and it was all he could do to try and catch an newly energized John Gilmour who to me looked like a newly baptized little baby as he sped across the finish line.

John Gilmour was defeated in the next round by Gary cross....He should have took the money.
Ken Mollica went on to win the La Costa open on the gnarlyest course of the year. Forever immortalized by Fox Television. True story? Only Henry and I were there and so far, he ain't talkin. TK

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 5:55 am

Well I did not have my warm bath or steak-and the Canadian Bacon for breakfast wasn't helping. I managed to get to the race a little late (couldn't find the race site) and searching for for a "balanced meal" I gulped down 3 of these "Energy Protein -no carb drinks" not realizing until I drank them that I just drank the equivalent of 10 cups of expresso (They had tons of caffeine in them as well).

My heartrate was 160+ and I felt all of my energy burning up while waiting for my runs. After the Breckenridge race I really wanted a win but no food combined with the caffeine made the cards look weak. I think it was the round of 16 with Kenny- and Kenny and I had always had good races. First time I raced Kenny was at Morro Bay and I won. I raced Kenny again in DC and I tried to struggle through the loser bracket in double elimination in one race (22 runs)- only to lose at the end and won the next event. At the Longboard Worlds I figured Kenny's fast midrange pump would be the hardest to beat on flat ground so I just said we would split the money. I ended up winning that one.

So when Kenny said I wouldn't owe him the money if I let him past me....... I seriously considered it. After all Kenny is our adopted East Coast racer so from a regional standpoint it didn't look so bad....besides Kenny was raring to go- to the top if possible and at best I had 2 runs left in me as the Caffeine incinerated my chances. Kenny had lots of energy and frankly- a better chance.

I thought about the cash. Kenny had had a banner month and could afford it. $500 was Kenny's first bid. I asked Henry if I should take it----

Henry said "Well that's guaranteed 2nd place winnings- hell I'd do it, I think I even did do it once

" Then Kenny upped it to $600. I said $800. Kenny said "no".

An so it stood at $800.

We walked up to the start ramps. 3/4 way up Kenny said "Okay Gilmour , I had a good month (In property apprasials)I'll do it- $800".

I hesitated. Should I do it? Or could I actually win this "Tight slalom" (10-11 foot on center) by turning out a few good runs?

If I took the cash it covered all my expenses and perhaps fellow regional teammate Kenny could go on for the win. I wouldn't have to worry about running out of gas.

BUT-

Gareth had just made me a new Roe. Kenny was riding an ICK. I couldn't throw the race to a regional teammate (My first race on this new deck) and bum out a board builder.

Then the other thought occured to me. As Ed Economy said "Racers ready"......... if I said "No" this would be the most intense psych job I had ever heard of. Also I'd save my reputation. So what could I do? I said "No, Kenny I'm not going to do it". And then posted the fastest course time so at least it wouldn't look like I won by psych.

I would have done it for $1200 lol- Kenny would have paid it- but the offer was never tendered.

Out of gas I lost to Cross- but Kenny went on to win the next day.

Bob Turner is still laughing his ass off over that one.

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:32 pm

Extremely funny. :lol:

Henry Hester · Post by **Henry Hester** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 5:12 am

That's exactly how it went down. Good tale TK. Gilmour, that run was blistering hot and you took him out in style.

I love Slalom today. Happy Thanksgiving brothers.

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 8:25 am

Hey Henry,
I heard there was some smack goin on over here can I join in?

La Costa 2001 I'm racin Gilmour, 1st heat he is in the slow lane we come out pretty even but he pulls just ahead at the 1/2 way point, knowing he cant look back at me I yell as load as I can "F%$K I just DQ'd" Gilmour not knowing whether I did or not but knows me all to well yells back "You F%$ckin Liar Arab", So not but 5 or 6 cones later I come up on the wrong side of a cone, I'm like know way I have never DQ'd a day in my life this is not real........, We get to the bottom and JG beats me by 2/10ths, My mouth is shut I aint sayin s%$t because I got back on course and I dont think anybody seen it maybe I can get away with it and hold on to my 2/10 instead of having to take a second and a half, But I couldnt believe that I had DQ'd, As were walking up Brewce Brewington sez that I DQ'd and I'm thinking just F%$cking great, But he sez there was a cone off the course, What had happened was Paul Dunn went down into the curb the race before and the tracker cone that he took out was lyin in the gutter right upto the curb, Old Traker cones stuck in the gutter are about the same color and hard to see, So they sez you got to rerun the heat, me and JG talk it over and agree that F%$ck it lets just stick with the 2/10 and go on.

Our next heat wasnt as close and JG went on.

Hey JG I never said I wasnt a liar and a cheat!

Racing aint no gentlemens sport
Dale Earnhardt wasnt no gentlemen and neither am I.

You want extreme, Buy some rollerblades!

Nasse Lippen · Post by **Nasse Lippen** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:33 pm

On 2002-11-29 02:25, ARAB wrote:

Racing aint no gentlemens sport
Dale Earnhardt wasnt no gentlemen and neither am I.

Yes, but Dale Earnhardt won many races. You haven't.

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:15 pm

Hey Lippen Smacken Hiden Girlie,

Actually I have won more races over a period of 5 decades then you'll ever dream of winning, My first win came in 1969, Over the course of the last 2 years I have beat every racer on the FCR series which includes this years world champ Chicken,last years world champ Gary Cross,this years series winner Paul Dunn and about 140 other racers.
Do you race?
Is it hard to turn that slalom board you ride the one with the trucks and wheels attached to a keyboard, which key do you push to turn left?

Wanna Race Me?

[ This Message was edited by: ARAB on 2002-11-29 17:16 ]

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:31 pm

Hey Lippen Smaken Slappy Hiden

Dale Earnhardt would have put you in the wall

Just as I would put you to the curb

When are we gonna race!

Nasse Lippen · Post by **Nasse Lippen** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 5:04 am

der fette Esel ist Unrecht. ich bin nicht slappy!

_________________
Es gibt viele Esel aus Westen.

[ This Message was edited by: nasse lippen on 2002-11-29 23:15 ]

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 8:05 am

Stimmt, aber es gibt mehr Esel vom Osten die nie skaten koennen werden

If you want to play in German go to the German forums.

This here forum is for the English speaking!

Nasse Lippen · Post by **Nasse Lippen** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 8:36 am

Guten Morgen! Sie sollten gehen rochen. Er hilft ihnen, gewicht zu verlieren.

Nasse Lippen · Post by **Nasse Lippen** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 8:49 am

On 2002-11-30 02:05, ARAB wrote:

This here forum is for the English speaking!

Der esel kann nicht die oberseite des homepage lesen. "das haus des internationalen skateboarding"

Eric Groff · Post by **Eric Groff** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 9:00 am

Lippen Smacken

and your point is?

Cut the B&llsh%t, you got something to say to me heres my email

groff3@msn

Dont waste space on this forum with your childish little games.

Nasse Lippen · Post by **Nasse Lippen** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 9:40 am

No point. Ahab the Arab.
Just slalom for me.
My email has always been in my profile if you want to chat.

Ich bin ein Berliner krapfen.

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Sat Nov 30, 2002 11:10 pm

Yes, you are right Nasse, this is an international forum.

I must admit that racing takes on many forms especially with slalom skateboarders.

One thing I might remind to all users of this web site. Each member's messages can be searched rather easily by researching the member's profile and then their messages.

The idea here is a focus on slalom skateboarding with an international scope. Each member represents himself, not the whole community or country of origin. Although I write and read english, I support your other language post. I will say that we will check the languages and appropriate action will take place if innappropriate behavior is exhibited.

Please consider the use of the "Private Message" or researching the member who you have decided to engage in conversation.

Each post is the property of the owner.

Best regards to you both.

On 2002-11-30 02:49, nasse lippen wrote:
On 2002-11-30 02:05, ARAB wrote:

This here forum is for the English speaking!

Der esel kann nicht die oberseite des homepage lesen. "das haus des internationalen skateboarding"

Henry Hester · Post by **Henry Hester** » Sun Dec 01, 2002 4:06 am

nasse, Arab deserves way more respect than you're giving him. We have missed his posts here and on NCDSA. Smack is smack. Learn how to do it right.

Chris Chaput · Post by **Chris Chaput** » Sun Dec 01, 2002 6:36 am

A couple things. Slalom is NOT extreme. If you call it extreme and it's not, kids are going to laugh at you. It's like some kook saying "Dude, I just took off on this 10' wave..." when it was only 4' that day but had 10' faces.

Downhill skateboarding probably qualifies as extreme (it gets my heart rate up) and streetluge is borderline. Streetluge was in the X-Games but downhill was not (go figure). Downhill is in the Gravity Games but guys are already trying to develop "boarder-cross" like racing to get more air time.

Slalom can survive by being true to itself if it is done right. I think that all of the fun stuff that Henry has mentioned is great. To be attractive as a spectator sport, the races must go off like clockwork and the expert or color commentary must be excellent. The filming has to be done right and the post production must be even better.

Good rivalries can be featured and super slow motion can make us look faster and better. When done right, slalom can be a beautiful and artistic form of racing. If it's done incorrectly, it looks too much like a bunch of old guys looking for 15 more seconds of fame. I wouldn't mind seeing more team jerseys and fewer t-shirts. More race helmets and fewer park helmets. More kevlar and leather and speed and fewer pads and lame offsets.

I love slalom but I'd rather focus more on downhill until and unless the slalom races become more fun. If we get our timing systems down and chuck the starting gates, have Hooter Girls in golf carts drive us back to the top, set and reset the courses better and keep the damn thing moving without any lag time, we could be doing a lot more slalom and lot less sitting. This sport has so much potential. It's cheap and you can do it just about anywhere.

I must warn you however, that if races do start to become more fun, I will practice and scorch you all.

I will beat you in the rain, all that you will feel is pain. I will dominate the banks, you bend over, take the spanks. I will blaze the fastest GS, you will be revealed as BS. I will beat you East or West, doesn't matter, I'm the best. Dunn is done and Gilmour Gil-less, Chicken is chicken and Cross is skill-less. Maysey is gay see, the Ransom won't be paid, for I take all the gold, and I'm the one to be laid. Life's not fair. Get used to it. I win and you have to find some other way to feel good about yourself.

It ain't easy being green.

Sincerely,

Sam I Am
eggs:ham

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Dec 01, 2002 4:47 pm

I don't think one can say generally that slalom is extreme or not. I guess most of the time it's not but it doesn't mean it can't be.

Already the word extreme is very personal. What is extreme for one person might not be extreme for another. Often we mistake extreme for being dangerous but it's not the same thing. For example if we take running 200 meters for example. That is not extreme. But if you take the fastest 200m runners in the world doing it then suddenly it's extreme.

Extreme is something brought to its edge on a given scale. So if you take the best slalomers doing their very best it's extreme by definition.

Saying that skateboard slalom is extreme is comparing that to all other existing sport activities. It's very hard to compare but I would personally not consider it as extreme. But as I said before it doesn't mean that slalom in itself can't be extreme.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Sun Dec 01, 2002 9:48 pm

All things considered, if there ARE Hooters girls at the race- I automatically win, because I can't lose. A hot bath is one thing, a steak dinner another...BUT....Now we are talking REAL racing. No wonder those Nascar drivers put it all on the line.

Let's assume we were watching a new wheeled sport we had never seen before (but not Hooters girls in golf carts). If the participants aren't going faster than we could run (Okay okay, imagine they were Hooters girls in golf carts) ...could we call the sport extreme? Would we call any wheeled sport where the participants don't go faster than a running pace extreme? How about a sport where Hooters girls were running faster than us?...bummer.

I've done downhill, freestyle, vert, slalom (note I did not put streetskating in there) and the worst falls I have ever had came from slalom. Why? Because they are twisted falls..and often unexpected. (likely injuries if you don't practice falling before you start practicing are - hippers, broken hips, legs, torn rotator cuffs, dislocated shoulders, road rash, broken wrist, fingers, concussion, back injuries, broken ankles. HEY it's beginning to sound a lot like Speedboarding.........

UR13 has made it through the learning curve with almost no injuries (We'll forget 'da farm 2 - that fall was brought under by pressure to race before it rained). UR13 skates with his head- realizes that the fastest way to progress is "steadily" without injury and to be wary of bad surfaces. He is perhaps the smartest racer of them all.

But now UR13 is certainly cooking on most steep technical TS courses- though I don't think anyone in California has seen him skate like that yet.

Make one big mistake at that kind of speed and you certainly could "buy 'Da farm"- end up injured. The trick is to only make small mistakes.

I've had hippers, roadrash, and a dislocated shoulder(Since reconstructed)- all of which could have been avoided if I had used better judgement/appropriate pads.

So if injury rates help to define "extreme"-it all depends upon the quality of the place you are skating and your judgement.

Some sports were wrongly classified as Extreme sports...like snowboarding in the early days.

My personal definition of extreme is that when you are doing your sport a very small error is likely to really really injure you. Make a small error in line or hit a crack/rut the wrong way in downhill- and it's gonna hurt. Fold your chute the wrong way in base jumping and it will hurt very very much for a very very short time.

"extreme".
Another way to look at it is if the crowd watching has the general reaction of "Oh man.....that is sooooo sick -I don't think I would/could ever do/learn that without seriously hurting myself." You might be able to call a sport extreme, and slalom in some of its forms might fit that label.

A few of our races have been more extreme than others. I went to the November 2000 WLAC GS race, certainly on the edge- not so much for speed, but for the surface and general road conditions.

'Da farm 2 also was pretty extreme from the "oh that's sick standpoint." It got your heart pumping both athletically and because you were going really fast both for the technical aspects of the course- and fast in general. At those speeds......we could have blown by the Hooters Girls in the golf carts easily. In fact in one video clip you can clearly hear Vlad yell as he spots one of the carts in the distance.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sun Dec 01, 2002 10:06 pm

Well, let's be blunt: "extreme sports" today is whatever the television networks call "extreme." I've seen base jumping, rodeo and even midnight disco bowling labelled as an "extreme" endeavor. Personally, I think the whole notion of "extreme sports" as being ridiculous. It's a media-made label designed to legitamize jackass behavior (yes, that was on purpose.) Let's face it, if ESPN could figure out how to judge and award points for self immolation in a sold-out stadium, we'd see "extreme human bar-b-que" during the May sweeps! And for the record, don't forget that Fox has broadcast races during their "EX TV" show. Thus, Fox has decided that for their satisfaction we peform in an extreme sport. Doesn't their recognition make you feel all warm and gooey inside?

Personally, I've always considered "extreme" to be an attitude more than a performance level. Intensity, determination, performance and drive all make an extreme ATHLETE, not an extreme SPORT. It's the guys who really hang it out over the edge and bring it back again who raise the level of performance and thus the level of expectation that makes anything "extreme." Sure, backside airs eight feet out of the pool is extreme. Then again, ripping five-foot offsets on a 8% grade at 25 miles an hour is extreme. It's not what you are doing, or more importantly what someone else labels what you are doing, that makes it extreme. It's the way you go about it.

So the question isn't whether or not Slalom racing is an extreme sport. It's a question of whether or not slalom racers perform at an extreme intensity level when they race. I think we do, but what really excites me is I know the intensity and extreme attitude around our sport is just taking off. We haven't even began to stretch the limits of some of this new equipment. As our prowess at speed becomes more and more comfortable, then our anticipation of greater speed will become more and more . . . well, extreme.

Chris Chaput · Post by **Chris Chaput** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 1:04 am

Get real. Slalom skateboarding is NOT extreme. I've never been hurt slaloming. It's poosible to get hurt in a bathtub but bathing is not extreme. The only thing that will happen if we unwittingly LABEL OURSELVES extreme is that we will sound like kooks and people will laugh at us.

Downhill skiing (DS) is gnarlier than slalom skiing (SS1) which is gnarlier than slalom skateboarding (SS2). The public views DH as extreme but doesn't label it that. Certainly SS1 isn't labeled extreme and so you'd sound like someone trying to impress a dumb blonde by saying that SS2 is extreme.

Let other people call us extreme if that's what they want to do but shame on any slalomer for trying to use that buzzword. It doesn't fit, doesn't work and isn't true.

I hate it when you hear downhillers on TV say "..yeah dude, we were doing about 55, 60 in the straights..." and then later in the show a cop with a radar gun exposes them the 47mph truth. The skaters look stupid. In a relatively slow sport, you'd be better off mentioning the world record speed than the track speed.

If I saw slalom on TV and they were telling me that it was extreme, the little voice in the back of my head would say "NOT!"

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 2:07 am

Hey Wes, know what you're talking about before you post.

"And for the record, don't forget that Fox has broadcast races during their "EX TV" show. Thus, Fox has decided that for their satisfaction we peform in an extreme sport. Doesn't their recognition make you feel all warm and gooey inside?

EXTV is owned by Extreme International which is based in Europe. They purchase blocks of airtime from FOX. In the near future they will be launching their own sports network here in the USA. FOX has nothing to do with deciding when the FCR races air. FCR with the help of Don Hoffman reached an agreement with Extreme International to broadcast the races, without this deal the races would have not been broadcast. Would that make you warm and gooey?

Do I think slalom racing is extreme? No, I actually detest the "extreme label". My definition of extreme is if you fall you suffer major injuries or die.

Do I "feel all warm and gooey inside" beacause our races are broadcast? You bet your ass I do. It has taken more work than you can imagine to get slalom on television.

Last week when the La Costa racer was re-aired I watched it at my office with some co-workers, they were stoked and so was I.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 2:34 am

Let's see if I got this straight: Slalom Racing is on EX TV. EX TV is on the FOX Sports Network. But Fox has nothing to do with dissiminating the notion that Slalom Skateboard Racing is an extreme sport.

Nothing like a condescending attitude to really put someone in their place. I feel so terribly chastised.

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 3:46 am

Wes, FOX Sports has no editorial control or input regarding the content the EXTV programming. Well, they might step in if EXTV decided to air female topless slalom.

Yes, my last post was condescending. I apologize for the tone.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 4:04 am

Well, they might step in if EXTV decided to air female topless slalom.

Tway and Parsons without their shirts? God help us all!

P.S. Maybe I should cross post that to the smack forum?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 4:13 am

Jack...I can add that last week when La Costa GS re-aired I was sitting on the couch next to my dad. He was like "You were there Chris?"..."If I was younger..." ..."When I was your age..." Point was that he was stoked (in his own way). My mother happens to be a substitute teacher at the local High School and was in a free period when my dad called her to turn the TV on. She did and said by the end of the 30 minutes she had about 30 9-12th graders around her watching it fully stoked on slalom. After the broadcast they all went to turnerdownhill.com, found my name, watched the video and checked out our boards.

Point is is that I was stoked to see it on TV again, my dad was and my mom was. By the end of the 30mins there must have been over 100 people in the small town in central NY I grew up in watching it. I've got a few e-mails from some of the local kids asking about slalom and how they can get into it.

It IS good for our sport....

George Gould · Post by **George Gould** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 7:27 pm

i think the exposure is good. too many people worked too hard to get it out there, racers, FCR and the TV guys. call it whatever works.

there are different spectators, at La Costa there are friends, family and manu's. they are only impressed by stellar runs, lengendary races and close races. there is a different type of spectator at places like Morro Bay and Avila Beach. they mostly have not been exposed to that type of race. to them it must look extreme. and when the pros start running there is an audible sound from the crowds amazement. these people were stoked! watch Mollica's video of La Costa and the G/S part where DH is slowed, people i showed that to think that is extreme. so it may be in the presentation. people asked me why it isn't in the Olympics, i am very polite with my answers, and i will comment that i don't want to whore skateboarding to that political crap. that is only my opinion shared here. but anything that will help fund
racing, you should see the cost of zip ties alone, everything must be set up and taken down and all the work, funding will help it.
so let the media call it whatever bring us money, we are old enough and skating long enough that we don't have to sell the soul.

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