Ridoli, Giammarco, Sidler, Gatti....on mpeg ....Now!

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Gianluca Ferrero
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Post by Gianluca Ferrero » Thu Oct 02, 2003 12:44 pm

After a long work we finally posted on http://spazioinwind.iol.it/coniskate the best frames of some of the greatest slalomers in 90's.



Daniel RIDOLI, Luca GIAMMARCO, Andi SIDLER, Paolo GATTI, Anatoly MATSUKEVICH at the World Cup in Italy 1993, figured in tight special and dual slalom (ex umatic to svhs to avi and mpeg...).



Have fun!

Gianluca

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Post by Vlad Popov » Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:11 pm

I can't open the link, is it just me? Anyone had suxes?

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Post by Jani Soderhall » Fri Oct 03, 2003 6:53 pm

I looked at some of those videos yesterday, but it no longer works. Maybe he used up all of his bandwidth and they shut down his account. Just a silly guess.

I have copied three of them to our site instead.

Italian videos from World Cup, Torino 1993:

Daniel Ridoli, SUI, GS (2 MB)
4.m1v Ridoli vs Luca, parallel (800 Kb)
Luca Giammarco, ITA, special slalom (550 Kb)

/Jani

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Post by Vlad Popov » Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:08 pm

Thanks!

That GS looks looser then DC longboardSL!

Ridoli-Luca duel is stunning.

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:20 pm

(this quetion goes out to Jani, Gianluca and Luca or anyone who raced Ridoli....I assume Vlad has therories on this too)

That is the first time I have ever seen Ridoli skate. How was he faster than Luca. Biomechanically Luca's form is perfection and fine tuned to his deck/truck choices. What made Ridoli faster/more dominant? Seeing the parallel Duel and Ridoli in the GS Luca's better biomechanics around his board should win everytime. Ridoli's biomechanics are off and though his GS form was functional I wouldn't consider it "optimized".....

Luca and Ridolio's lower bodies (hips down) are doing the same thing..but luca uses his upper body more effectively which should let him be faster/more powerful each time!

What was Ridoli's secret? What made him so fast?

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Post by Vlad Popov » Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:35 pm

Ja, man, I'm, like, watching the GS run and thinking the same thoughts...Where's the BACKSIDE PUMP?!!! Gliding is cool, waighing/unwaighing- classic...but how do you accelerate on the backside? Amazing!

Chris, I think Daniel got SUPER fast after 1993. I'm going through my 1993 Slalom! mags and it's Luca,
Luca
and Luca.

Wait a minute..nope... Luca again.


And, by the way, Luca has a "Ferrero" swing.



<font size=1>Dear Daniel, if you ever read this, sorry for discussing your style/technique and comparing it to others. Please come beck to slalom and kick some ass</font>

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Oct 03, 2003 7:58 pm

I know that Luca's basic technique is from Gianluca...but both have adapted it to their own directions. Luca's version of this IS biomechanic perfection.

So I still ask, what made Ridoli so fast? Or are these two shot video clips not representative of his overall style. luca sure looks freakin' fast!

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Post by Terry Kirby » Fri Oct 03, 2003 8:10 pm

you should have seen Luca race Mollica this last weekend. Talk about difference in style. Kenny beat Luca to the line but was a little more dirty than luca.
The Dong and Luca matchup was amazing with Dong posting the only sub 18 sec raw time of the day . Luca brought out the best in Dong.
The Dong /Gilmour and Mollica/Gilmour races are modern classics as well. 70 something cones in 18 seconds. The time is now my friends. Race these guys while you can. TK

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Post by Howard Gordon » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:09 pm

Nice scans, Vlad.

So will you go to Italy to race next summer ? Luca named you in his interview, along with Paul Dunn, Richy, Kenny, and Hut.

http://www.stream-games.com/summer/presenting.html

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Post by Vlad Popov » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:19 pm

Oh, well, now I have to go to Italy... Man, another boring EU trip...
:smile:
Yes, it was in the plans for a while now. Meeting Alberto Tomba and riding with Valentino Rossi is still on the agenda. Taking out Luca in Italy would also be good. But...Tomba and Rossi first. It's almost like racing Jani in Paris.

PS. Dr. Ferrero has asked me to host Italian images for him and link them to this site. I think he'll have more soon.

Guest

Post by Guest » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:19 pm

I know I am looking forward to Italy next season. Italy and Paris....I'd love to race in Moscow and Germany/Switzerland too. My wife wants me to race in the UK.

Next season is going to be amazing!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-10-03 15:21 ]</font>

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Post by Henry Julier » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:34 pm

How are you guys getting these movies to open... it's not working for me. The have some weird file extension like .m1v on them, I tried changing it to .mov but...

sorry to be an annoyance!

Henry

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Post by Vlad Popov » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:37 pm

Speaking of racing Jani in Paris... The latest issue of Concrete Wave mag posted my dream come true!!!!


Sorry for the off-topic; back to the fine video analysis, style critique and munching.

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Post by Howard Gordon » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:40 pm

Henry - download the player from http://www.real.com

TK - Dong had the only OTHER sub-18 sec time. I haven't seen Dan's spreadsheet, but I'm reasonably certain Luca had several clean runs in the vicinity of 17.80-17.90, and he managed this with a pretty severely sprained back.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:43 pm

The movies play in Real Plejah no problemo.
I'm reasonably certain Luca had several clean runs in the vicinity of 17.80-17.90, and he managed this with a pretty severely sprained back.
Maybe it's because he was on the right wheels.

:grin:

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Post by Terry Kirby » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:56 pm

HG, you are correct, Luca had a 17.822 against Fluitt. The fastest run of the day. TK
Mike D had the other one which was 17.989 plus cones TK

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Terence Kirby on 2003-10-03 15:57 ]</font>

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Post by Vlad Popov » Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:01 pm

Hey! I found a recipe for sending Luca to the middle of the pack! Corky shared it on the Swiss forum.

"- Daniel Ridoli showed up but without skateboard. His advice for beating Luca is... the gym. So for you that have a goal higher then being first AFTER Luca it's time to go pumping those legs."

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Post by John Gilmour » Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:25 pm

most of your muscle mass is between your armpits and your knees. Ridoli uses more muscles- but perhaps not as exactly.

Soderhall and Levene are probably some of the most efficient.

Having a small waistline- might be a disadvantage for slalom.

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Post by Howard Gordon » Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:29 pm

Vlad - the wheels are an interesting story.

We set up practice with a timer on Thursday before racing, and Luca duplicated some of the characteristics of the Morro Bay tight course at our local bike path.

The nice thing about working with Luca is his consistency - with the same wheel setup, his times would always be within 0.03 secs on a 55 cone course. So it was easy for us to make changes and have a clear idea of the results.

Cone spacing was 5.5 - 6.5 ft. Some offsets, but more curves like MB. Speeds in the range of 4.1-4.2 cones/sec. Luca started with 90a Cambrias, then shifted to 90a front / 85a rear Avalons and gained 0.10, then changed to 85a front / 80a rear Avalons and gained another 0.10 sec (much to his surprise), then ran 80a Avilas around and amazingly gained another 0.10 sec. We agreed that running Avilas in the tight would be very tiring, but it was nice to know that we had another option.

It was pretty funny to discuss the wheel results with Luca as we were testing. He said several times that there were too many options, and life was much easier when he had only one board, one set of trucks, and one set of wheels, so he only had to worry about the course.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Howard Gordon on 2003-10-03 16:30 ]</font>

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Post by Jonathan Harms » Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:18 pm

Now THAT is an interesting, informative post, Howard. There are so many variables of "what makes you fast" that it makes my head spin. Thanks for the BS-free account of your "experiment."

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Post by Terry Kirby » Fri Oct 03, 2003 11:21 pm

Mollica has been telling me for a year that the white Avalon is the only wheel he needs. I used to call bullshit on him but now I'm almost believing its true!

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Post by Claude Regnier » Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:43 am

Yep I was there with Howard. Luca had that same feeling of disbelief when he handed me back my Bottle Rocket.

He didn't want to try it again. It was too close to race day. He blew out of the course at a about the 3/4 mark.

Next year he may be scary fast.
Many Happy Pumps!

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat Oct 04, 2003 3:11 am

I used to harp to everyone that the 82a cambria and the 80a avalon would do anything. Little hard wheels ARE faster on some courses, big giant soft wheels are fast on others, the avalon in 80a just plain works..the 85a and 90a are just gravy for the right course.

In these cold northeastern nights (sub 40 degrees) the red avalons with the lips left on them feel pretty damn good.....

Luca is right...so many choices. I wish I could just have one board and one set of wheels and just worry about the course. That would be easier....haha

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Post by John Gilmour » Sat Oct 04, 2003 3:28 am

On 2003-10-03 21:11, Chris Stepanek wrote:


Luca is right...so many choices. I wish I could just have one board and one set of wheels and just worry about the course. That would be easier....haha
you mean spec racing?

No of course I know what you mean.

But if you have only one deck and wheels you tend to set courses that suit that set up.

Having a variety of decks means your courses likely will vary more.

I also like the White Avalons- but the technique for riding a softer wheel is very very different from that you use to ride a hard wheel.

The slope of the hill can also influence the hardness of wheel you choose as well.

My hopes are that we start to run races on smoother surfaces. We will see even better coruses as a result , faster times, fewer falls, and faser skill progression = more blown minds

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:12 am

John...yes there is a MAJOR difference in riding hard and soft wheels. Hard wheels require a bit more of a "touch". On the right courses they are considerably faster on most surfaces, even rough surfaces. I have my own ideas why but the stopwatch doesn't lie.

Unfortunately those "right" courses are few and far between on race day. So something like an avalon is a good choice. The flashback in hard duros on one or two kinds of surfaces/courses works well two...however the courses/surfaces the flashback really work on are EVEN more few and far between.

Back to the 80/85/90 avalon...you have no worries...you can go up or down in size (avila/cambria)depending on the surface/course and desired grip type....

I think right now in 2003 if you have 2 dialed in setups you are good to go. You might need a 3rd setup if you aren't riding PVD trucks.

Hey aren't you the guy that used to force that little fullnose turner through EVERYTHING for how many years?

:razz:

I do love watching these clips and seeing these guys ride ONE board they know well....

double/triple+ pumping has it's purposes too....

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chris Stepanek on 2003-10-03 22:18 ]</font>

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Post by Vlad Popov » Sat Oct 04, 2003 10:15 pm

Strange. Hard wheels are at least .5 seconds faster on CyberSL, 1 second faster on a regural DC racecourse and 2 seconds faster in Moscow. Must be the surface. Or something.

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Post by Howard Gordon » Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:18 pm

I don't know the surfaces that you mention, but I would assume they are smoother than the surfaces we ran last weekend.

Harder wheels will roll faster when there aren't surface irregularies to impede their progress, as there's less compression to during normal roll. Softer wheels will conform better to irregular surfaces, and in the process are able to maintain roll speed.

Note also that for the same durometer, larger wheels will compress less than smaller wheels. And wheels with deformable lips or areas of unsupported urethane will compress more than those less unsupported urethane. Finally, surface conditions generally vary between dual courses as well as throughout any given lane.

So there are many variables for which you can optimize. Life is simpler if you don't worry about all of these things, but then perhaps you are at a disadvantage when racing against someone who has figured it out.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Sun Oct 05, 2003 10:47 pm

Yes. In short.

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Post by John Gilmour » Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:13 pm

I find that my pumping style changes radically when I switch from hard to soft wheels.

With Hard wheels I tend to focus the power over a shorter burst than I do with Soft wheels which I tend to dole out a longer sustained pump.

With that concept of "burst" in there the hard wheels work best at higher cone rates. I think a softer wheel like the 80 a Avalon is better for people who haven't figured out the "whip" or for running really stretched out gates on longer wheelbase decks.

The 85A Avalon is a funny animal. I think it runs best in colder temps- which is the opposite for most wheels. I ran 85a avalon regular and 85a cutdowns in the slalom at MB2002. I felt the roll was faster but on colder pavement.

For the same size core a larger diamet6er wheel will feel softer.

Guest

Post by Guest » Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:29 pm

I find harder wheels (90a+) require a faster/snappier pump that is alot of downforce. I also find that they only really work on no flex/wood decks. 90a+ wheels on a deck that has torsional twist to it (not so much flex though) is a BAD BAD BAD idea. But then again torsional twist in a slalom deck is the biggest speed robber of traction/power there is.

John...funny you mention the 85a avalon being nice in cold temps. Now that fall is here in the northeast and lately the nightly temps are around 40 degrees, I have found that the 75a red avalons and the 85a avalons offer the best feel/grip in cold. Another interesting thing is that in cold temps hard wheels have no noticable difference in feel/grip...they are still hard wheels. That is sorta nice to know.

I also find the longer my wheelbase gets the softer my wheels get. On the current 36" longboards currently in vogue in the slalom world I wouldn't think of anything over 82a...80a/76a avilas feel best.

there are SO many variables here with wheel choice it is very hard to make a general rule.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:19 pm

Ok, here's a link to more slalom mooovies from a long long time ago.
Everyone has his own distinct style it seems.

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Post by Guest » Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:58 pm

Vlad....I now see Anatholy Matzukevich's style...fire in his eyes! Good Lord! I've never seen anyone pump a skateboard like that.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:14 pm

That's the first time I ever saw him. Too bad I didn't get to meet/race him and Jani in Moscow in September. I think his "secret" is weights and practice. :smile:

PS. Sidenote. He's 46 this year and has been practicing at least ones a week when the weather was good. Elena Sinodalova came to his practice sessions a couple of times after the Moscow Longboard and GS Slalom Cup, but hasn't been seen after that. Matsukevich was training a couple of young guys this year. In about a month he'll start his regular winter job as a snowboard instructor...in hard boots. His son, who is 15, expressed some interest in slalom (he practiced as a kid and then quit). Sinodalova's daughter, 14, will probably give it a try next year. She said she was proud of her mom and that's a good reason to start slaloming.

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Post by Vlad Popov » Tue Oct 07, 2003 7:37 pm

I've never seen anyone pump a skateboard like that.
Luca's pump seems more effective, no? :grin:

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Post by Guest » Tue Oct 07, 2003 8:45 pm

On 2003-10-07 13:37, Vlad Popov wrote:
I've never seen anyone pump a skateboard like that.
Luca's pump seems more effective, no? :grin:
Depends....ridoli, Luca and Matzukevich, in those videos on Gianluca's site each seem to have a style tuned to a specifc course type...hard to say if one is better than the other given only seen a few short minutes of video. I understand Luca's form (well am beginning to) but I have been watching him skate and analyzing it since before Paris 03.

the differences I see are Ridoli is ultra smooth thouhg his pump seems less than optimal, Luca is a machine perfect biomechanics for the board, Matzukevich is pure power and agression...add Jani being grace and precision and that is all of top riders of Europe in the 90s that I have seen skate. Each optimized their form/board choice to what works naturall best I think.

Same can be said of the top 5 or so riders in the USA right now too...

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Wed Oct 08, 2003 12:36 pm

I'll say it again. What made Ridoli go from good to one of the best was the gym. This has two advantages. The most obvious is that you get stronger. The second is that when getting stronger you can practice efficiently more often and during longer sessions.

So if you have the determination and the time what are you wating for? I know what you're thinking. It's a pain in the ... but that's what it takes to be the best.

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