Slalom Skateboard Brochure (200K art files enclosed)

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:27 am

Ever since I met John Gilmour, he's been babbling about how we need a "handout" for spectators to help explain what the hell is going on. Something that can describe the racing, the rules and why these fat old men are running around those cones in the road.

Well, driving home from da' Farm I had a chance to give it some thought. I composed some notes and decided on a format. I also took it upon myself to include what I consider to be the IMPORTANT aspects of our sport that a complete stranger would find relevant and necessary to understand what we're doing. This is my design and what I wrote for a tri-fold, two-page brochure:

Page 1

Page 2

This can be considered an "open discussion" period about the brochure. As you can see, space is limited and any major suggested revisions would require a complete rewrite.

My idea is to get a final draft and then place this layout on the web as a .PDF that anyone can download. Once the art file is in hand, you can take it to a quick printer or copy shop and run off and fold a hundred copies. Anyone attending a race could take the brochure and get an idea of what all the mayhem is aiming to achieve.

[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2003-08-05 20:53 ]

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 10:58 am

Wesley…..Looks good to me! Great Job....in fact terriffic job. We do need a way of explaining what we do. It's not just zig zagging around cones. But without a good handout...that is all a spectator thinks it is. Just like Nascar is just about going around in circles in a car.

What excites the newbie? What are the newbies "hot buttons"?

I think the first thing that stokes the newbie is first seeing someone slalom skateboard who is adept at it...either in person or on video. A good video link that is easy to remember is the key. If you have the handout at the race site….this part is fulfilled.

The other way the newbie enters is from fascination about the materials and technology used. A Photo of glossy carbon fiber and CNC machined trucks is the key here. A display at larger competitions with gear mounted to a display board would be great.

So now the beginner is interested.

What is slalom to the newbie?

1. It's selecting a board to slalom on.
2. Practicing.
3. Buying cones.
4. Hunting for a good practice site.
5. Looking for someone to practice with.
6. Learning to pump.
7. Wanting a slalom board for every slalom discipline.
8. Looking for timing system options. (not a big deal under grass roots racing rules)

{we could define this in the handout as ...slalom is simple all you need are cones a board and a good surface.}

This progression might be outlined in a link or at slalomskateboarder.com it could be somewhat loosely integrated into the flyer, but the key is to make the newbie make contact with the slalom community through the Internet. There, the slalom videos and slalom babble is enough to pull anyone in. It is also important that the newbie realize that there is a class of racing available for him where he is competitive and as his skill level increases he moves to the next class of racing.

What is slalom to the Pro- or experienced racer from a similar sport?

1. Analyzing and walking the course.
2. Developing a course strategy.
3. Selecting a board from the quiver to run the course.
4. Practicing on the board.
5. Changing wheels or trucks or even the entire board.
6. Confirming deck selection through practice.
7. Sizing up the competition and their deck selection.
8. Creating a race strategy. Selecting possible criddle options and modified lines for increased speed.
9. Modifying the race strategy as needed. Wheel changes for temperature changes etc..
10. Getting tanked with your bro's afterwards on the free beer. Trading stories of excuses, mistakes, strategies gone horribly wrong- what you could've should've done, ridden etc…..

Sometimes my Pro experience is different..
1. Borrow someone's board, race with zero practice or course analysis.
2. Getting tanked with your bro's afterwards on the free beer. lol.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-08-06 05:06 ]

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-08-06 05:23 ]

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:00 am

I also like the bracket that the spectator can fill out... involving them at any level is a great idea. I think that is bbbrrilliant.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-08-06 05:12 ]

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:03 am

Definitions for
Criddleing
DQ
etc?

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-08-06 05:10 ]

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:19 am

I'd also like to see surfing mentioned somewhere as slalom is now the closest relative to surfing in skateboarding.

(for those with no waves accessible to them...this is very important)

For surfers and longboard surfers slalom skateboarding is accessible and serves to crosstraining. Surfing is the gateway drug to Longboarding and Longboarding is the gateway drug to slalom. Get too addicted and you could end up in the ER. Moderation moderation...

For the most part street skating bears less semblance to surfing (We'll exempt skate derived tech surf moves- which are out of the reach of most surfers). Slalom is by far the most accessible to a newbie looking for a surf like feeling.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-08-06 05:21 ]

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:30 pm

Outstanding!

If it's okay with you, I'm going to print some up to pass out in Athens this month.

The brochure, along with a highly visible "leaders board", will go along way to furthering the growth of slalom skateboarding.

Thanks Wesley!

Robert Sydia · Post by **Robert Sydia** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 4:00 pm

Wes:

Your hand-out looks excellent - just the thing to promote slalom here in Canada.

Thanks for the effort.

Rob

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 4:36 pm

and I do have a suggestion...

provide a blank space for adding local contact info

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 4:39 pm

John,

"DQ" is defined in the RULES section of the brochure. Also, if you can provide a definition of "criddling" and all its implications in five words or less, I'll try and squeeze it in.

As far as surfing is concerned, I feel kind of stupid. I know that I had originally written a sentence that read, "slalom skateboarding really is the original 'sidewalk surfing.'" Somehow, though, it didn't make the final cut. I must admit I did do some slashing and burning to get each topic to fit in its respective panel.

66,

Hold on the printing. It's August 6. You've still got three weeks. As I said in my original post, I hope in the next week or so to get this finalized and THEN make a PDF file for printing. Although you might have better luck that I'd anticipate, I have a feeling that printing out a 72-dpi JPEG and trying to reproduce it might result in less than acceptable quality.

Oh, one other thing. Upon re-reading my little piece, I see that I really abused the word "usually" quite a bit. That's simple to fix (just replace with "normally", "typically" and "in most cases,") but still a style change I want to make. There's nothing wrong grammatically with what I have, it's just rather boring and repetitive. Last thing we want to do in Skateboard Slalom Racing is perpetuate any notions of boring repetitiveness.

Rob,

I'm not joking when I say this: for this brochure to be effective in Canand (and Europe) would I have to do a METRIC version? Are Canadians savvy enough to know "5-7 feet" and such and what not?

I know it sounds rather simplistic, but we have to remember this is for the PUBLIC, not us. In order to be effective, we have to cater to the LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR. Of course, to find out that denominator, then a silly colonial like me has to ask!

Just let me know. I can do the conversions and edit it to fit, but I'd really like to know first off if it's worth the effort.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:08 pm

Oh, there is one other thing. There is room for the changes and even a contact block that Rick suggests. It just might mean deleting the two pics on Page One. I know Mandarino will be crushed and the St. Louis guys were praying for the plug, but an Editor has no friends, only adversaries!

One thing I might do for a "contact block" is put something VERTICALLY in the gutter on Page 2 between "What is" and "Who Slaloms." Of course, you'll have to turn it sideways to read it, but it will grab the readers attention by being different from the rest of the layout. It will probably be something simple like "For Information On Your Local Slalom Scene, Contact:________________________ )" At that point the local organizer can type in either a phone, name or e-mail. DO THAT FIRST, then go make 100 copies.

Getting attention is what it's all about.

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:25 pm

Just for kicks I printed one off a cheap inkjet printer that turned out okay, but a .pdf is definitely the long term format solution.

And I've got a decent quote somewhere analogizing slalom and surfing, I'll dig it up and put it back in this post.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:32 pm

Slalomskateboarder is intended to be an information resource, not the daily news. So I think putting that somewhere sideways or along a border is a great idea. Flyers get lost quickly so the name slalomskateboarder might be mentioned more than once. I remember learning the word "slalom" for the first time as a 11 year old kid. I could barely remember it let alone spell it. Looking at current reading levels today...uh you get it.

Criddleing- intentionally hitting a cone(s) to gain a faster line.

So often spectators think that when you hit a single cone its a "blown run or not perfect". Well I think Michael Dong's Criddle run is THE PERFECT run- we were all astounded far more than a clean run. I like hearing those ooohs and ahhhs.

BTW this stuff isn't meant to be criticism.. there is no way I could put together a clean straightforward pamphlet in such limited space.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-09-13 10:16 ]

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:45 pm

John,

I don't take it as being critical. I did ask for feedback and appreciate the effort. I especially like 66's idea of a contact block. Didn't even dawn on me.

Although I do understand the nature of criticism, please understand the nature and tone of feedback in this thread will determine the content of my future Christmas card lists!

Heh, heh, heh :razz:

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:42 pm

Thank you Wesley for taking the initiative to make this idea reality.

Nice work.

Jim Siener · Post by **Jim Siener** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:50 pm

Nice job Wes!

Matt Wilson up here in Boston has been talking of doing precisely this sort of thing to hand out to kids when we do our BASS sessions.

As a graphic artist too, I got some suggestions to the layout. I think you could go with a smaller point size on the type and get that much more info into the brochure. Also it looks like you have 2 differen fonts going for the text, I'd stick to one.You could even go with a condensed sans serif font and cram more info in too.

I agree that including the bracket board is brilliant. Little kids love this stuff. At the farm a lot of the kids had these autograph sheets that someone made and they were really into getting anyone on a slalom board, and I mean anyone's autograph. But doing a bracket would require a leader board that all spectators could see.

Also John had this pretty cool layout idea he showed me for the Boston Race for a rider Bio handout. It was really simple to make. Maybe he could show you it.

Anyway, I think the info and the handout idea are great.Its good to see someone take the ball and run with it. We all benefit from your hard work.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:52 pm

Jim Siener · Post by **Jim Siener** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:00 pm

One more thing. At the Farm my wife overheard someone explaining to a spectator that the racers at the Farm would be paid professional full time athletes if that existed at the Slalom competition level. They are that good in the world of Slalom. Maybe that could go into the part of who slaloms at these Grass Roots Events. If you told a kid that Gilmour is like Tony Hawk in the Slalom world this would put things in a perspective that might get them really excited.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:19 pm

FIRST REVISION IS NOW ONLINE

For those of you getting to this late wondering what everyone is talking about, I've already made the first changes and uploaded the revised layout prompted by others' responses.

Included now is a contact block (in the gutter on Page 2) and a small block of common phrases in the gutter on page 1:

• Criddling
• False Start
• Dialing in
• Bale
• Coneheads

Jim,

I made a mistake in the first layout. It's supposed to be completely done in Avant Garde, but one panel did get uploaded in Helvetica. That has now been repaired. Also, I set the body type in 11 pt. throughout, reduced the leading a little and also backed off on the tracking. Theoretically I could go down to 9 pt and remain legible, but I'd like to avoid it. Don't forget, this is being read by the PUBLIC maybe standing on a sidewalk or street while watching a race. If the type gets too small and jiggly, then they'll probably just trash it. I'm from the "old school" of desktop publishing when 300-dpi laser printers meant NOTHING goes below 9 pt or it'll plug. It's an old habit, but it keeps me from getting into too much trouble

Also, I would like to interject one quick subjective point: This is not meant to be "Everything You Always Wanted To Know About Slalom Skateboard Racing But Were Afraid To Ask." I'll leave that to Chaput and Gilmour to write. This is an INTRODUCTION to the sport with a few brief highlights. If there is an ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL ELEMENT I left out, please let me know.

Keep those cards and letters coming.

[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2003-08-06 13:32 ]

Adam Trahan · Post by **Adam Trahan** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:46 pm

Wesley, can you keep the latest version posted here?

One offbeat note.

http://www.slalomskateboarder.com contains about 125 megs of information. We just received another 100 megs from our service provider. The statistics are still outstanding and we continue to grow. We are officially one year old August 1st.

Thank you all for making the site what it is and thanks again Wesley for putting this great brochure together.

Wes Eastridge · Post by **Wes Eastridge** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:05 pm

In the "Common phrases in slalom" section, is the word "bale" a typo? I always spell it b-a-i-l, as in “bailing out the boat”, “bailing out of jail” (not my friends personally:) etc. “Bale” means bundling straw, wheat, etc. And actually, in slalom, the term I hear the most freaquent for leaving the course is “blow out” and its derivatives. I suggest leaving out the “falling” part and change the phrase to “blow out”, or at least spell “bail” correctly. Good job on eveything else that you have.

[ This Message was edited by: WesE on 2003-08-06 17:08 ]

Noah Heinle · Post by **Noah Heinle** » Wed Aug 06, 2003 11:56 pm

Wes, this is fantastic.

Understanding that you want to maximize slalom specific information in very limited space, my opinion is that the terms "bale" (regardless of how you spell it) and "dialed in" could be substituted with other terms that are more directly related to slalom. I think that most spectators who have never seen slalom will be able to guess what it means when someone shouts "Awe man, he bailed hard." To me, that's a general term used in many activities. I think the phrase "dialed in" is not as widely known, but people should be able to figure that one out too. Does everyone who slaloms use that phrase?

It's not that don't I think these terms need to be explained. I can't think of any better ones at the moment. But there's gotta be something that is less obvious to the newcomer that can be defined in the small space.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:42 am

I only suggested Jargon terms mainly to make newbies feel like they know some lingo so they can feel a little more comfortable about asking questions and becoming part of the group.

I just don't want a newbie to feel like he asked a question that is obvious to slalomers...like- "too bad you hit that far out offset cone or the run would be perfect".

Funny terms like sandbagging are also good. But to keep it short criddeling, pumping, are probably good enough. You'd never be able to figure out a Criddle without knowing it's definition....unless you saw Dave Criddle race.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:00 am

Yeah, I'll agree. "Pumping" and "Braking" probably have more peculiar usage in slalom than other instances. So I'll use those instead.

Common Phrases in Slalom:

Criddling: purposely hitting a cone to go faster;
False Start: jumping to an early start;
Pumping: Using the body's strength to accelerate around a turn;
Braking: Conserving momentum and slowing down around a cone;
Conehead: Course marshalls who attend the cones

Chuck Gill · Post by **Chuck Gill** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 3:01 am

Teriffic job, Wesley!

You might be able to mention this is a sport where absolute beginners can skate alongside World Champions, who will freely share information and tips.

Also, I don't know if it would bea fun "gee-whiz" fact or counter-productive, but perhaps it would be worth mentioning that there may be some very exotic equipment on the course..."poor man's Formula 1" and all that.

ps...your check's in the mail for the "NASA rocket scientist" bit LOL.

Jani Soderhall · Post by **Jani Soderhall** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 12:38 pm

Wes,

Great job! This is the kind of stuff that really makes it worthwhile to spend time with this site. If we can all contribute little pieces like this we might be able to expand the horizon of this sport and make our fun last longer.

As for European use I think the leaflet serves as a useful idea on what can be done, but most likely it'll have to be translated into local languages at the same time as translating the measurements.

Personally I'd remove the piece about the actual speed, because that might be disappointing to anyone reading it. Slalom to me is all about perceived speed. Anybody seeing even an average slalomer will think he's going pretty fast. However compared to a bicycle he's not going very fast, even less so compared to a car (of which we knows the speeds very well). I'd use that space for something move valuable of all the above proposals.

It would be nice with a race picture at a big race, to show people that it can be big and that we're not doing only grass roots events. Of course space is limited, so you'd have to consider taking one of the other pictures out. I think such a photo would do better use though than a picture of a lonely skater.

I was surprised by Johns proposal of adding criddling as a term, because that really is quite a specific term, but wow, he found a good short description of it. I had a much harder time explaining it to the cone marshals at the Paris race.

Isn't there a spelling mistake on bail?

If you distribute the PDF file, or let us have access to the original artwork, those who want could adapt it in any way they like (apart from translations). Are you OK with that?

Keep up the good work!

/Jani

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Thu Aug 07, 2003 1:39 pm

Jani,

As far as taking the basic layout and running with it for local languages, have at it. I've already had an e-mail conversation with Michael Stride about using the phrase "dixie cups." Seems that wouldn't make sense in England. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, possibly the few measurements would need to be converted to metric for Canada and Europe (well, really for every where excepet HERE!)

In regards to the speeds, that's something I'm going to leave alone (editorial discretion.) Here's my reason: when a spectators who's never seen slalom before watches a race, I invariably hear two questions: How fast are they going? Does it still count if they hit one of those orange thingies? I think my little narrative answers both questions. Oh, and there is always the third question that I DIDN'T answer: How much does a skateboard like that cost?

I'll agree with you that perception is sometimes more consequential than reality, but that doesn't stop people from asking, "how fast are they going?" Since I consider this brochure as a means of introduction and explanation, might as well answer the important things first.

Oh, and I've already removed any reference to "bail" with some new phrases listed above. So that's kind of a moot point. Noah convinced me it wasn't slalom slalom-specific enough. Now I'm trying to explain "Pumping" and "Braking" to the masses.

David Riordon · Post by **David Riordon** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 5:40 am

Wesley,

Great job!!!!!!!!!

I have three ideas, take them or leave them:

1) Place the numbers on the brackets (i.e. 1st, 16th etc.). Also put a foot note that the bracket positions are based on qualifying runs.

2) I would downplay the "family" thing. The typical skateboarder would kind of get turned off on the wholesome family lifestyle quotes. I think the audience you are trying to sway are skaters and not their parents or anyone else.

3) In place of the family quotes, I would add something about "road rash" and how pads and helmets can help protect you (unlike normal street skating).

Even if you don't include any of my ideas, I would say the brochure is ready to go right now.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 6:08 am

On 2003-08-08 23:40, David Riordon wrote:
Even if you don't include any of my ideas, I would say the brochure is ready to go right now.

LBK,

Well, we put it to bed this afternoon:-)
There's another topic now with a link to the .PDF to download it.

I agree with everything you said except we'll part company on the family thing. Although this might be considered a "recruiting tool," I think of it as more of a "helping-people-standing-around-watching-a-race-and-having-no-clue-what's-going-on" tool. The "Who Races" block was really just to show that slalom racers are not just another bunch of groms in baggy pants who slalom when their kickflippers are out for repairs.

This afternoon, Gilmour suggested the same thing you did: number the brackets. But this is where my experience as a designer kind of takes over: I want as much space as possible for people to be able to WRITE as opposed tojust more information. This would be filled in by spectators standing on the street watching the races. What would be cool is if we get in the habit at a race of announcing, "And Now, Your 16 Top Finalists ARE: . . . " and then do a roll call and tell everyone to grab a pen or pencil. (Heck, anyone ever priced those little dinky eraserless pencils they use on golf courses and in church pews? Maybe having a box of those along with the handouts would be a good idea?)

Thanks for taking the time to look it over, Dave. And don't think this is static. Hell, my computer is on 24-hours a day. It can be revised from now on. Also, it's NOT MY PROPERTY. If anyone wants to take it and rewrite for their local scene, have at it. The art is there and the format is pretty flexible. If, for example, the DC guys want to take that "Who races" block and personalize with a half-page bio of Parsons (who by the way took 6th in the giant slalom at 'da Farm,) then that would be cool.

Also, I can see where maybe someone would want to re-write the rules who uses ramps. After reading what I wrote and then seeing a ramp start, spectators would start asking, "so where's the pushing?"

Hey, it's all good

Mike Maysey · Post by **Mike Maysey** » Sat Aug 09, 2003 8:26 pm

Hey Wesley, I read the brochure....top notch buddy. Hey I don't know if anyone mentioned it or not, but how about some kind of newletter sign up or something? Something to let interested people get something in the mail explaining whats the latest news in the sport. Who knows, maybe there are some people out there who would latch onto skateboard racing like stock car racing? You never know! Something on there, whatever it is to really draw people into the fold in a positive way. What better way then a quarterly newletter including race results, equipment, courses, slang terms, suggestions, rivalries etc.

Ricky Byrd · Post by **Ricky Byrd** » Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:50 am

Wesley! How long have I needed something like this! Thank You so much for diving in there!

Could we come up with a concise, to the point, informative webpage which explains the sport further, uses pictures and viddy to do this, and links up to manufacturers, retailers, etc.
When I say concise I mean don't make them wade through 1000's of posts to learn more, one page with it all in front of you. It should have exciting graphics, sick video of Gilmour, racing tips, fundamental board setup info. What a tool!
One website address listed on this thing could get the interested person so much more.

I know, I know...Not really a recuiting tool, but it could be both.

Thanks again Wesley.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Tue Aug 12, 2003 2:23 pm

Of course, it's inevitable that after you go to press, changes HAVE to be made. Good thing for me this isn't important!

Skateboardbrocprint.pdf

A few minor changes brought about by some constructive reviews. There is nothing "wrong" with the original version I posted last week, this is just an update with some improvements. Both Jani Soderhall and Chicken felt the paragraph where I mentioned specific speeds was a bit lacking. Although we might think we're hauling down a mountainside, to the general public "15 to 25 miles an hour" sound a little lame. So I re-wrote it to read that "it's really exciting to watch skaters whipping through three to four cones PER SECOND."

Also, some suggestions were made concerning the bracket diagram. Since it would appear to be obvious to several, I've decided to go with the flow and NUMBER the brackets so that seed #1 is up against #16, 2-15, etc. Also, LBK suggested a footnote that mentions how bracketing is the result of qualifying runs early in the day. Good catch, Dave.

That's it. I'm done with it. The .PDF is updated with the new changes and once again any and everyone is welcome to get their own copy. One last thing. This brochure is in no way proprietary. Anyone can take the basic layout and run with it however they choose for their own local race scene. The specs on the file are as follows:

Layout in QuarkXpress
Avant Garde PS 1 Typeface throughout
One TIFF image
Two JPEGS.

TOTAL FILE SIZE INCLUDING GRAPHICS: 1.1 MB

If anyone wants the original Quark layout just send an e-mail and I'll pass it along. Also, I believe PageMaker has a filter for opening QXP documents, so that'll also work. Take it, change it, add your own pics, rewrite it to appeal more to your own local event, change the rules for whatever little quirks are peculiar to your event, yadda, yadda, yadda.

There will also be a NEW TOPIC in the MEDIA forum with this link. I hope Jani and Adam might take the time to merge, delete, clean up or whatever they wish to the two running threads in this forum. Personally, I'd like to this thread stay open for further discussion. My idea is this brochure will go out and eventually be "personalized" for local areas and events. Rules will be edited for particular events, local racers can re-write the "who's racing" section to include actual bios of who's racing today, maybe a link to a more local web site. All this would lead people to come to SS.com and discuss their ideas and what would work best to get the point across. This layout that I've produced is NOT PROPRIETARY. Take it, change it, make it work for whatever you're doing locally.

Neil Gendzwill · Post by **Neil Gendzwill** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:54 pm

Just curious regarding those bracketing numbers - do you really place the top 4 seeds on the same side of the draw? I usually work it so that 1 and 4 are on one side of the draw and 2 and 3 on the other, so that if all goes to plan 1 faces 2 in the final.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:55 pm

I just tried a "save target as" to floppy and get it as a explorer doccument.How Do I get it to download as a PDF? I know I must be doing something wrong.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 4:22 pm

John,

Provide an e-mail address that WORKS and I'll be glad to just send you the .pdf.

I understand that "johngilmour@rocketmail.com" doesn't behave itself very well. Send me an e-mail and I'll know where to reply.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:57 pm

I got the pdf many thanks. I did take a closer look prior to printing.

I think what Neil means is....In the bracketing it would appear that the top seed would eliminate number 2 in the quarter final, number 3 in the semi final and face number 5 in the final.

Perhaps this is a dream bracket for a certain someone we both know. :lol:

Anyhow- the number two seed advances from the bottom bracket.

[ This Message was edited by: John Gilmour on 2003-09-14 10:58 ]

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