Where's The Next Race Going To Happen?

[Wesley Tucker]

(I moved this here so as to not clog up the World's thread even more.)

That's why there was exactly ONE request for a World Championships in the U.S. this year, by the guys in the Cascades. Total organizer burnout.

Gary raised this point in the World's thread about what's happening now and intimating what might happen in the future. Where this sport is going to nosedive is if some of the "kids" don't start stepping up to the plate. There's a large number of racers who were in high school or college when this got started again in earnest in 2001-02.

Now here we are eight years later and who's organizing races? The same 40-year olds who are now approaching 50. I know Karl made a determined effort in Needham and others here and there but that's not going to be enough heat to keep the flame burning.

I do not want to make this sound like I'm passing the buck and someone else has to stage races for me to attend. (No, I have not organized a major or a prime. All I've done is work at staging some regional outlaws.) That's not it at all. I'm just making the observation that the 20-somethings need to start thinking about if they want to keep racing and what THEY WILL DO so THEY CAN RACE. It's just not safe to assume Texas Eddy, Jack Smith and No Time To Hate are always going to do a race. When that ends, what's next?

Think about the ISSA Board of Directors: me, Gary, Dan, Paul, Marcus, Peter, JBH. Past members Claude, Jack, Joe I, Corky. I'm not sure of Peter because we've never met but what do all the North Americans have in common? All in their '40s (some of us staring 50 right in the eye.) Why is it none of the "kids" in the ISSA were even nominated? I hate to think it's because they're just along for the ride as long as someone else is pushing the bus.

Y'all think about it. Or don't.

[Robert Gaisek]

Are they invited to try?

I think one of the "problems" is that when it comes to planning for an event, the older guys take the lead and maybe let the younger do some less important tasks.
This is a very human thing and it comes naturally for us (yes....I´m old too).
It is hard to let go and to see someone do it their way instead of "the right way".

There is of course younger riders who have proven themselfs many times and have made big and great comps, but I think there are lots of them out there just waiting for a chance.

IMHO of course.

[Wesley Tucker]

Robert,

Who invited Dave Hamm to have a race in '99? Who invited FCR to crank up again? No one invited Tway to start the Farm.

The list goes on.

It's a matter of just doing it. All the resources necessary to know what it takes is available here. That's a lot more than anyone had at the turn of the century to crank this up.

More than an "invitation" is INITIATIVE to just do it.

[Karl Floitgraf]

Wes I think you raise a good point and it's important that we take steps to allow the next generation of race organizers to step up to the plate.

I organized my first outlaw when I was 17 and I have had varying degrees of success over the years. I have learned a few things.

I have to this point only ever ran a basic status race, I tried a couple times to break the barrier into organizing a prime status race but I couldn't manage to get insurance, permits and a timing system.

Younger Race organizers have enthusiasm but not the financial backing to purchase insurance or a timing system for a race.

I would like to suggest some ideas that I think could be a large help in the future:

The ISSA should charge annual dues for membership: somewhere between 20-40 dollars a year, no more than a good magazine subscription.

-With these funds the ISSA should organize an Insurance Co-op similar to what the ASSA has done in the last few years. Race organizers would still have to buy in but it would be a streamlined process for all races. Making this a more simple process that requires a smaller up front investment will allow younger race organizers to take on bigger challenges.

-Also with this fund I think the ISSA should purchase a couple fully loaded- race ready timing systems. We should set up a kind of Netflix for Timing Systems. Based on your priority(granted status) the race organizer could receive a timing system a week before their event and be able to use it and send it back.

-Information should also be available on suggesting methods for acquiring permits for races. This step will still always be difficult but the more information and help we can provide the better.

These would be some BIG things we can do to help people organize races. These are just ideas that would take a lot of work to implement but this would strengthen the ISSA as an organization and our sport in the long run.

[Robert Gaisek]

Wesley.

Maybe you´re right.
So how will we get them to take the initiative?
Should we oldfolks stop fighting and be more serious?
This will die if we don´t......or maybe they will take over and kick us out for good.

[Demetrius zouboukos]

Well I'm 16 and live in Mississippi and there are no races hardly ever and I can't travel far. So im taking wesleys advice and just start my own outlaw race in jackson. But I have no clue what im doing. Any advice? I suck at making courses too :/

[Wesley Tucker]

Well I'm 16 and live in Mississippi and there are no races hardly ever and I can't travel far. So im taking wesleys advice and just start my own outlaw race in jackson. But I have no clue what im doing. Any advice? I suck at making courses too :/

Advice?

Read this website.

There are topics for every aspect of racing. Use the SEARCH function for any topic you have questions. It's here. Some of the posts may be five or six years old but things haven't change that much.

Go to the media resources forum and get the ISSA rules, the race checklist and any other information you might need. Don't make a semester-long study of all this stuff but just check it out. Then after you've done a little homework consider what questions you have. Maybe then take the time to ask something and see what answers you get.

I say search and read first because that's a lot faster than just typing a question and waiting for whenever for someone to respond. And then there's the risk the answer doesn't really address your concerns.

I can tell you this. Running an outlaw takes a few things:

1. A venue
2. Cones
3. Chalk to mark the cones

If you got that covered you can race. Now, getting a little fancier means having IN THIS ORDER

4. A timing system
5. Way to record times (paper or a laptop)
6. Start ramp.

and that's the ingredients for an outlaw slalom skateboard race.

[Tom Mangelsdorf]

The Guy that started up the race in Batavia IL this past March is only 15 yrs old. He did not have a slalom board of his own or any cones. He asked on Silverfish if anyone would come if he threw a race. There aren't enough races in the Midwest, so the idea took off. People agreed to bring cones and a timer. Once the idea began to gain momentum, some of the OG's in the area helped with getting street closure permits and other details.

But the key is - Phil is 15 years old. I hope it is a sign of things to come.

At this point, I love hosting the Wiggle War. So far it's gotten a little easier each year as I have developed a system, and each year I learn from my mistakes. Will there come a time when I don't want to do it any more? I dunno. Probably. It would be excellent of there is someone to pass the torch to.

[Wesley Tucker]

The thing about Peter that impressed me was based on reading the websites he got dealt some venue setbacks from the powers that be. I believe he originally secure another hill and then ended up having to move a few blocks away? (Something like that.)

Anyway, that's the kind of hurdle some people would just decide not to jump and would put up a few "CANCELLED" posts on some websites and call it a day. It was great the way he worked through it and still put together a great downtown event.

Peter is EXACTLY the kind of skater this sport needs to keep moving forward.

[Eddy Martinez]

WOW. Interesting topic. As for me as an organizer. It has been an adventure of sorts. The Sizzler has grown up. We have been fortunate to have Dan Gesmer as one of our main sponsors. And for that we are extremely grateful. Gracias Dan. I decided that for next year to let my younger and faster Texas Outlaw Team Mate Jourdan Adler run the Sizzler. He gets 100% support and guidance from the O G's on the team. We look forward to next year. HHHHMMMM 2 contest in Texas in 2010. Start the year as allways and maybe a surprise. What do ya think. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

[Jason Bortolussi]

WOW. Interesting topic. As for me as an organizer. It has been an adventure of sorts. The Sizzler has grown up. We have been fortunate to have Dan Gesmer as one of our main sponsors. And for that we are extremely grateful. Gracias Dan. I decided that for next year to let my younger and faster Texas Outlaw Team Mate Jourdan Adler run the Sizzler. He gets 100% support and guidance from the O G's on the team. We look forward to next year. HHHHMMMM 2 contest in Texas in 2010. Start the year as allways and maybe a surprise. What do ya think. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

I like surprises!

[Wesley Tucker]

For those who missed it:

John Stryker announced there will be no Hood River this year. One of the most compelling factors in his decision: couldn't get any help.

This will be the last year for The Farm. Why? The same guys have done it for 10 years and don't want to anymore.

[Eddy Martinez]

I let some one else try to run The Texas Cold Fusion Sizzler this year. And due to circumstances out of anyones control. Things did not go well. The Organizer split, bummber. My health was starting to get back on even keel. As some one who has been there. You get tired of the whole responsibility thing. I worry when the forecast is rain, rain, rain all weekend. Sponsors pulling out at the last minute. Money is tight right now. No one wants to cone head. Cone heading is not easy. The Texas SUN will bake you. You could go back to organization, but cone heads have a way of fading away as the day gets longer. Too many RULES, the city wants more and more. After this year. The Texas Outlaws are moving our race to Houston next year, many of you are already aware of that. The Derby hill is SECURE as of last week. The no dinero, the complaining, the worrying if the racer that just went down is going to get up. We may be scaling back to NO status. It is not that we The Texas Outlaws do not care. I think we want to go back to GrassRoots. A step backwards you say. Not really. I allways liked GRS Racing. Who knows 2011 is a year away from now. I promised back in 2002 after riding my TurnerSummerSki that slalom would never die in Texas. And it has started to grow. Slowly, but grow none the less. Is there a Texas Sizzler for 2011. Yes on smooth new asphalt. Come on down, be happy, complain, laugh, get mad, smile, be fast, go off the Big Asss Ramp. But most of all have FUN. That is why we started doing this. 6 wheelers in 2011 at The Sizzler. ? Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

[willy demis]

Interesting thread. Here's my opinion as a newbie (and I'm 27- so I guess I fit the bill of "20- something year old").

I've considered hosting an event. I have access to a soapbox derby track that has a pretty decent surface, is pretty steep, should be FAST, and is 1/4 mile away from a fairly nice public skate park (as well as a Velodrome- though I believe it's private). I could make a pretty awesome event from all this. But the reality is that:
_____________
1) The hill may be too steep for beginner/intermediate racers. Why use the hill if we can't use it to the fullest potential?
2) It seems no pros (or very few) will even think about attending unless there is a large cash purse. Granted, they are pros. They ride for money. I get it... But if beginners are going to get excited about hosting events- then they need guidance, support, and involvement from pros.
3) I assume that sponsorship can increase as the size of the event increases. But that also means responsibility/risk increases for the event organizer.


It doesn't seem to me that many pros seem to care about Basic or Prime events, likely due to the lack of a cash prize. So in other words- in order for me to put on a quality event that "advances" the sport- I would need to have Major or Mains (I know these terms no longer apply, but they demonstrate my point) sanctioning, large financial sponsorship, a large organization effort (marketing, planing, etc), high financial risk for me as the organizer, a responsibility towards sponsors who may not be happy to hear of a rained out event or a lack or pro racer involvement, a large cash purse, expensive ramps, cones, timing system, volunteers, etc, etc...

I get the need to have the "younger" crew start doing some big races- but quite honestly, and no offense intended, I am not interested in hosting a race where only 2 pros show up because "it just isn't worth their time." That doesn't get me excited about the sport, or even show that the pros are willing to get the younger folks to a point where they are able to host a decent event. Further, it is hard to get excited about the "big" races where I actually can see, talk to, and race with pros because a $150 entry fee paid in order to get slaughtered after only one run- and sit on the sidelines the rest of the day is far from worth it for me.

Again, this is just my opinion having been to only 1 event, and not ever hosting an event... Perhaps my perception is not accurate...

[Wesley Tucker]

Willy,

The only response to you that I can put forth is maybe try following the example of racers such as the Downhillbillies or Road Kill Racing in Mississippi?

What you do is . .

1. Start with some outlaws. Even if it's just you and two friends, have a race at your SBD track. And remember: you don't have to use the whole hill for a dual hybrid. Go down the more shallow section at the bottom and set a good fifty-cone course.

2. Take lots of pictures and put them all over the web. Let everyone know what's in Indy.

3. Go to races yourself so other racers know who you are and will relate to you and what you're doing in Indiana.

4. Then maybe do a regional race. The purse can just just a few bucks from everyone throwin in $20.00

After a year of this, go for the brass ring and promote a Continental, national or world cup event.

By getting into the sport now you've sort of missed how races "grew" from grass roots to sort of big time to the very big time. (Including the Sizzler, the Farm, Colorado, the Dixie Cup and who knows what all else.)

Oh, and use that skate park to promote slalom racing: lots of stuff on the bulletin board and maybe setting cones on round wall for park slalom. Let the grom popsicle stick riders know there's something else out there besides ollies. There's GOING REALLY FAST on big soft wheels.

And don't forget the other side of the coin:

Doing the grassroots/outlaw stuff, bringing in people, doing local races and just kind of playing it cool you might find out . . . you really HATE organizing slalom races! 'tis better to find out with a few locals than getting disgusted AFTER inviting 60 or 70 people to fly in from all over.

[willy demis]

That seems like pretty solid advice Wes- thanks!

[Rick Floyd]

Willy - that's what we are doing in New England this summer...a 3-4 race outlaw series. All single lane, single day. We'd be glad to share what we are doing with you once the ball is rolling.

-RF

[willy demis]

Yep- I've been reading those threads. Looks pretty awesome, unfortunately just a bit too far away for me to manage at this time. Nice job out there!

[Rick Floyd]

Thanks! Yeah, didn't think you'd attend, just meant we'd share race info - what we learn, what works, what doesn't.

[John Gilmour]

I started the first slalom course in NYC in Central Park when I was 11 . It ran Sundays against traffic (bikes and joggers) down "Highway Hill" now known as Cat Hill from 79th street to the Boathouse. I could not afford cones so I went to Baskin and Robbins ice cream store and paid .05 each for 100 pint cups which we used as cones. $5.00 total investment.

Later I bought Tracker cones for $2 each. I still have them and use them. I prefer these to the new cones. When some of the novelty of slalom wore off...we lost the 6 person deep gauntlet of protective spectators that protected us from Bikes and Joggers. Then I moved the course to a much slower run by Tavern on The Green on the West side of Central Park.

At 11 years old ..... it was sort of hard to get Adults to listen... but I always could threaten to pick up my cones and leave if people weren't being careful and respectful of others. I only had to pick them up one time when I thought a bunch of spoiled kids who were not watching their boards (being eyed by a bunch of kids known for stealing boards) were going to have their boards stolen and would have caused a police report. So I picked up the cones and left until they left and came back a hour later and reset. No big deal.

When I left for boarding school... the rollerskaters took over the responsibility of tending the course..which was nice as when I came back I did not always have to bring cones with me.

so to those who think they are too young...

No problem. Just buy cones. When your local crew gets good... (Or lol thinks they are good....) they will start to want to host a race on their home turf. Got an adult who really thinks they are good??? Put him in charge of getting insurance. Ask the adults what they do for a living... some might be able to sponsor a race. I found out which guys had experience with electronics...which ones had trucks for hauling stuff, and who had swag for free prizes.

Pretty simple actually.

Karl's points should be looked at carefully as he voices several things I saw him struggle with firsthand.. ie..

Lack of timing system and insurance support. MAJOR

Since minors are the responsibility of the parents... most parents would be wary about letting a minor run a race without insurance (my mother never knew....lol).

For adults their issues are often the opposite of the kids. Kids can get cone marshals for their races... adults find this harder.

As for prize money.... and getting pros to attend... well no one ever said you can't give away money at a local race or outlaw race. Post of photo of the cash up...and they will come. Provide any lodging (or airmiles) for a pro... like a Guest house... or a crash pad..and someone is bound to show up to show you some fast racing.

[Glenn Bukowsky]

Nice post, John!

Vayta con Huevos,
Glenn