ISSA re-launch 2006

[Claude Regnier]

We should start to get some ideas going here.

1. Are we going to elect some new directors of ISSA - to revise and edit the rules and regulations to be used for future events as the World voice for Slalom skateboarding.

2. Do away with the whole and start over? Not likely but we'll see.

3. Each Country needs representation. For their own growth and for affiliation purposes.

There is a start for discusions, go to it, EH!

[Hans Koraeus]

There has been lots of interest in pushing for ISSA again recently. It comes in waves. I created this topic so that all good comments can be gathered where they should be, here in the ISSA forum section.

So let's start again. What was all that talk about pushing for an International body for slalom skateboard (like ISSA) again? Is it needed? Is it possible? What about the lack of interest from the Americans?

I will start with the voting problem
It will not be possible having weight on countries like it once was beacuse of USA and Europe is not in phase. Europe has not yet got its Union in place. We are still thinking countries over here. That's why I set up the World Ranking system like it is with a couple of regions spread out over the world with some kind of weight attached to them. If using the World Ranking concept the ISSA board could look something like this:

ISSA board
1 South American
5 Americans (USA, 3 from the West and 2 from the East)
1 Canadian
4 Europeans
1 Russian
1 Asian
1 Australian
Total board of 14 people (if all posts are filled up)

It could be divided into 2 sub boards. Each with it's own president.

West Atlantic board
1 South American
5 Americans (USA, 3 from the West and 2 from the East)
1 Canadian

East Atlantic board
4 Europeans
1 Russian
1 Asian
1 Australian

2 presidents? Well why not. If they sit for 2 years they could be president and vice president one year each.

And this is only the "Main board". Then you would need working groups for many other things like:
- World Cup: Find a big main sponsor for the whole tour, format?
- Selecting World Championship organizer.
- World Ranking
- Coverage: Web, Magazines, DVD, TV, ...
- Sponsors
- Boring stuff (Economy, administration, ...)
- Rules and regulations
- This forum
- ...


Interesting quotes from exactly one year ago. The most recent ISSA wave.

We have been waiting for 9 long years. (Since 1995) And since slalom started to take on in the beginning of the 2000's, we waited. We had all the ideas. We knew it was needed but the slalom community was not ready. This forum was started but the slalom community was not ready. We waited. We started to organize and discuss international subjects on this forum. We waited. It started to be a great international competition scene going in 2003. We waited. End of 2003 we started to revive the old world ranking in an attempt to hype up the international scene. In 2004 we put out a new Slalom! magazine with the same reason. Now after the 2004 season things are continuing going up for our sport and many good signs are seen for our near future. If you expect us to wait until every single skater is ready we could wait until the dawn of time. At some point we have to take a chance and try to do something. Now is a perfect time. Slalom has every chance to get big again and we should be ready for it and take every chance we get to support it.

Are you ready?

ISSA is not up and running yet. The current members will soon be listed. Then I guess we will have to create some working groups to get going. Some are more urgent to get going than others it seems. I wish everybody would support and push the ISSA idea. There are a lot of issues we need to work on if we want an international slalom scene to appear serious. The problem is maybe that not all want a bigger international slalom scene. They just want a bigger local slalom scene.

Much of the questions are answered in topics elsewhere but the problem is always the legitimacy. Who can say that: "Ok, all views has been discussed and taken into account. The descision is now that we go this way." That is the main point why we need an ISSA but on the same time I think it scares the heck out of people.

[Hans Koraeus]

Oops. Seems like we had the same idea at the same time Claude.

[Claude Regnier]

Guess so!

MB is a little worried about there being 2 of us!

[Etienne de Bary]

It will not be possible having weight on countries like it once was beacuse of USA and Europe is not in phase. Europe has not yet got its Union in place.

Corky, get real, the big federation of states that regularly produces most of slalom champions was constituted several centuries ago: (united stated of) Switzerland beat all other coutries, whatever size, including Russia and China
Switzerland is the place where riding a skateboard is as legal and normal as riding a bicycle, no doubt this has direct effect on the swiss occupation of the top of the ranking.
Other minor european countries have little weight... There is little hope that we will enter the Swiss federal system or skate federation, as you know the recent votation has shown the Swiss nations did not wish european countries to enter the federation, so we're bound to our balkanised fate.
Also there is typical collective psychology problems: the french practice a systematic anti-french racism, and the germans always will always vote against the french, the british practice a different sport, only the swede are excellent europeans, as viewed from that far away land europe seems a seducing ideal.

Just joking, of course in real we're all as united and efficient as the five fingers of the hand.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Etienne, i'dont understand what you want to say or what you try to say ?

Corky i dont' see a voting Problem.

Here is my way:

You have a pool of Members who paid their membership.

From this pool you vote the people into the different deciding groups. (it isn't important who they are or from which country they are)

The important thing is that they are selected from the members.

On the other side there will be the people who will develop the body/rules/guidlines and give them to the diffrent groups to make the decisions (perhaps two or three people).

That means:
The people who makes the proposal (guidlines/rules/body) will not decide if the proposal will be accepted or not. The people who makes the decisions will not be included in the composition of the proposal. They can give only their thoughts like all other members in the Forum.

As a said in a previous post:

I can work somthing out and bring it to the paper. It will be a basis which could be every time changed. But it means that I can build this in my way. And than give it to the members as a proposal. They can than decide if they can accepted it or not. If thay can, than is the way free to get the organisation started. If they don't wan't, than there is for shure another solution. I don't think that we will get something when everyone post his ideas here.

The question is: Where should the organisation be? When we clear this question, than it's claer who has to make the proposal how the organisation should be.

/J-Rad

[Vincent Berruchon]

You have a pool of Members who paid their membership.

First we should try to get the most possible slalom people in the process.
WE have to contact everybody that could be interested, from South America to Asia (as much as we can - with contacts we have, internet and why not contacting even all the skateboard federation we can find or skateboard slalom related organisations) and of course the big scenes too.
If we don't, some will say that we set the rules on our side... we can ask for memberships but everybody should be informed that something is going on.

[Hans Koraeus]

Jadranko,

In a sense you are right. In a perfect world it should not be important from where you are but only what you say and do. But I think it is important from the legitimacy point of view of an international organisation that you have international support. I.e. people from different places with sometimes different ways of looking at things. And it would make the association linked much closer to the racers out there. The racers must have people that they trust makes good decisions for the sport. And normally you tend to trust those you know the best. I.e. the people close to you.

But on the other hand to get something started someone has to make it happen. That could even be a single person. But it's important once the train starts to move that you get most of the key people from around the world onboard.

What I like with my idea is that there are fixed places set up. For example, if Russia doesn't use their place it's up to them but it shows that ISSA is always reaching out a hand. And then it gets hard for the Russians to complain afterwards or say ISSA don't listen to them. I think it could be a way to move forward and keeping the hand reached out for people to join in when they feel ready and on the same time keep the legitimicy intact.

But as you say. Someone has to get some proposals out in the open. Then people can have something to say yes and no on. This is just the beginning of a proposal from my side. Jadranko, I would like to know more details of your proposal for the structure of ISSA. And I would love to hear other proposals as well. In the end hopefully there will be a couple of good proposals to vote on.

Where the association is set up geograhpically has nothing to do with who decides how we want it to work. For me personally Switzerland is ok and I have no problem with Jadranko setting that part up. But it is up to the whole slalom community to give proposals of how they want it to work. And for the whole slalom community (or perhaps only people with membership in the current ISSA) to vote and decide on those proposals so that decisions are made and we can move forward.

[Pat Chewning]

ISSA board
1 South American
5 Americans (USA, 3 from the West and 2 from the East)
1 Canadian
4 Europeans
1 Russian
1 Asian
1 Australian
Total board of 14 people (if all posts are filled up)

Sad to say, but if the # 5 above represents actual Americans who would be willing to be on the ISSA board, then I don't think we will find 5.

But if the #5 represents votes that a single person on the ISSA board could use when voting, then I like the idea

But seriously, it has been my observation that the Americans (uniquely) are fairly anti-organization when it comes to skateboarding.

That, I think, will be the major obstacle in this country to helping ISSA get going.

-- Pat

[Pat Chewning]

Corky, get real, the big federation of states that regularly produces most of slalom champions was constituted several centuries ago: (united stated of) Switzerland beat all other coutries, whatever size, including Russia and China
Switzerland is the place where riding is skateboard is as legal and normal as riding a bicycle, no doubt this has direct effect on the swiss occupation of the top of the ranking.
Other minor european countries have little weight..

Ettiene: I think you may have underestimated the number of USA participants. The 3 largest cities in the USA have over 57 million people combined and the 6 largest Swiss cities have only 2 million combined. And there are plenty more "mid-size" cities in the USA than in Switzerland. In every urban area there are skateboarders everywhere. It's big, believe me.

You may have made the mistake of judging the size of the American skateboard community by the size of the participation in organizations such as the ISSA?

Regardless, the number of votes per area will always be in contention .... If it is not equitable to the USA, then I'm sure the ISSA will be ignored by the USA. If it IS equitable -- hey, the ISSA will probably still be ignored

[Pat Chewning]

The question is: Where should the organisation be. When we clear this question, than it's claer who has to make the proposal how the organisation should be.

I personally don't think it matters too much WHERE the organization is "located". We will likely run a lot of business and documents over the Internet and via e-mail. It should be possible to do this anywhere there is enough sustainable interest in working on the business of creating and growing the ISSA. In my mind the most concentrated area of organizational interest and energy is France, Sweden, Germany, or Switzerland (in no particular order).

I'll be a little bit crude here and say that for most Americans, it would not make a difference in which European country the ISSA is located. (An embarrasing number of Americans would not be able to tell the difference amongst the European countries.)

Yes, I agree with J-RAD that a written proposal would be wonderful, and if you're willing to do that then I'm sure you'll get lots of feedback for changes/improvements/etc .... and then we can move forward.

[Donald Campbell]

maybe you guys should move ahead and contact a few americans via e-mail to see how the interest is in general.

[Karl Floitgraf]

My question: how exactly will creating this elaborate bureaucracy will make things better for skaters. Will the new presidents of ISSA make the world ranking better? Will ISSA make entry fees go down? Will they insure a good course at big races?

I'm not really against this but I just think we need to consider what we really need and how reorganization can actively improve this situation.

I mean this will be really funny if this is the organization that ends up deciding whether Chaput's 6 wheeler is offical or not. I'm just not sure about it.

[Steve Collins]

I think the ISSA will do a lot of good if it can help more races to happen and help them run better, by standardizing and providing information to local organizers.

[Jani Soderhall]

Board (international vs individual):

It used to be that the ISSA had country representatives. It was a good system back then. Today with virtually no skateboard federations or official country representatives that idea is a little bit less interesting. Also, as communication is so easy ideas flow more freely across boarders and rather than putting together a group of "national representatives" we need to put together a group that has the energy to make sure something happens. If we need to make that more democratic (in terms of geographical areas or otherwise) we can do that later.


US & Europe:

I think there's enough support on both sides of the pond. And we all know each other well enough to get going. Some decisions must be taken locally, so let it be so, but some really need to be taken on an international basis.


Rules or guidelines

Also remember that there is no obligation for anybody to follow any rule (at least that was my old idea). The ISSA is rather a forum to recommend rules with the primary purpose of making it easier for organizers and competitors to know how it all works. If you label your event with the ISSA logo then racers know what to expect. If an organizer doesn't want to follow the ISSA rules, then they're free to do whatever they want, after all it's their event.


Do we need the ISSA?

I'm sure we can get along happily also without getting organized, without deciding if slalom skateboards should have 4, 6 or 8 wheels, without deciding where the World's should be held (just let the loudest or fastest decide!). But I also believe more could come out of our efforts if we put things together and work together.


Is it fair?

No matter what voting system we come up with there will always be those that do not agree that it's a fair voting system. Right now there is only one way to vote within the ISSA. That is to use the current voting power of those who have paid their membership fee. (I'll update the listing asap). I consider that only these people have the right to decide which is the next step.


J-Rad go!

I don't want to slow down any action here and I don't have the time or energy to get things going (Claude, I expect to have even less time this year, so I'd better step aside). We should let J-Rad get his proposals together and let him present them here to everyone. Then I can set up a vote for existing members and we'll decide together if that is the way to move forward.


/Jani

[Pat Chewning]

No matter what voting system we come up with there will always be those that do not agree that it's a fair voting system. Right now there is only one way to vote within the ISSA. That is to use the current voting power of those who have paid their membership fee. (I'll update the listing asap). I consider that only these people have the right to decide which is the next step.

Jani,

What is the membership fee, where is it explained, what is the duration of membership, and what are the benefits/rights of being a member?

I missed that somewhere.

========

OK, now you've added some of the info here: viewtopic.php?t=3396

-- Pat

[Etienne de Bary]

Ettiene: I think you may have underestimated the number of USA participants. The 3 largest cities in the USA have over 57 million people combined and the 6 largest Swiss cities have only 2 million combined. And there are plenty more "mid-size" cities in the USA than in Switzerland. In every urban area there are skateboarders everywhere. It's big, believe me.

OK... after checking the overall ranking i must admit that USA produce a bit more major slalom skateboard champions than Switzerland, ...
...
Your point would be a bit harder to hold if we apply a parity principle to our institution, which is my wish actually: swiss and US women at the top of the list are in rather equal number it seems.

(Being a skateboarder is one thing, riding a skate, not a car, everytime you move another. It's not just that i like to point where it hurts Pat, but when you go out, you usually use a vehicule to sit in, which would maybe not be the case if you lived in Zurich, so if you lived in zurich you would be a faster racer.)

[Etienne de Bary]

Jani... Could you tell me what is the respective part of the forum and association, and what is exactly the job to actually perform ? You know, i kind of feel it's a good thing to do, but it's not much more precise than that i must admit... Ok we must set rules/definitions of the sport, but apart of that, do we plan to do lobbying toward the media, do we have devellopment strategies for the sport in such or such regions ? Do we ambition to lobby governments (riding the city is still actually more or less illegal almost everywhere on this planet, and freeride is one of the best trainings i think, and a great thing in itself)... What's your idea ?

[Hans Koraeus]

- World Cup: Find a big main sponsor for the whole tour, format?
- Selecting World Championship organizer.
- World Ranking
- Coverage: Web, Magazines, DVD, TV, ...
- Sponsors
- Boring stuff (Economy, administration, ...)
- Rules and regulations
- This forum
- Contact with the International Skateboard Association, National Associations
- Olympic dreams
- Publicity material for slalom skateboarding to organizers, media, schools, ...
- ...

Etienne, just add whatever you like to this list. There is enough work for all of us.

[Claude Regnier]

Karl you seemed confused about organising and the benefit, yet you managed to get a school Team together. You managed to get some sponsors for various events, you had Team T's made for the Farm Finaly yet you can't quite see the benefit of a larger broader Worldwide organisation that would likely make all of that easier?

There is nothing funny about deciding if a 6 wheeler can compete against 4 in the same race. When it's worth some big bucks it will be necessary. That's in discusion under another topic so continue it here.

[Bradley Elfman]

I would suggest it's time to move to the next stage.

Begin with the key ideas expressed here.
Set up a planning group who can communicate via email.
Hammer out something concrete to bring back to the forum for feedback both by posts and polls.
Use the feedback from the forum to bring a second draft back to the forum for either more feedback or approval of what has been created.

The planning group would initially consist of those persons who have put the time and effort into this and similar topics on this forum plus those who have organized or sponsored world class events plus those who have continually raced in world class events and are willing to participate in the process + others who have

Meanwhile the rest of us can continue to provide our own thoughts via this forum, while the planning group communicates regularly via this forum and incorporates the input of the rest of us made on this forum.

Just from reading the posts on this and similar threads, I would suggest the starting members of the planning group could begin with

Jani, Pat, J-Rad, Corky, Donald, Jack Smith, Marc McCree, Vinzzz, Claude.
Others could include Steve Collins, Pauliwog, Kenny, Miko, Harms, Ramon, Fluitt, Richie Carrasco, Vlad.

As expressed earlier on this forum, someone has to step up and begin the process.
Pat? Jani? J-Rad? Vince?

If anti-organizational locals, do not want to participate, so be it, but it's past time to bring organization and standards to national and world class events, to speak to the media with one voice: why not have world class events on ESPN and followed by sports media, why not bring our sport to the Olympics, why not give meaning to the title "World [TS, Slalom, GS,...] Champ".?

[Pat Chewning]

I think the priorities for what to work on ought to be this:

1) Seek out and document who has energy/interest in developing this organization.
2) Select a core group of people to generate proposals and documents. Most organizations start with things like MISSION , Constitution and By-laws , finances, etc.
Mission: What areas will the organization be involved in (define slalom skateboarding), what areas will the organization NOT be involved in (skateboard parks, freestyle, street, downhill, etc).
Constitution and bylaws: (These can be copied from another organization and modified. Membership -- how to become a member, duration, loss of membership, etc. Decision-making processes. Officers, elections, etc. Incorporation or definition of the group as a legal entity, etc.)
3) Agree on organizational principles above, seek members, decide on officers.
4) Now we have a working organization. Assign members to working comittees to come up with those things that are most important for the membership. Some ideas:
a) update and revise the racing rules/guidelines
b) establish a process for ISSA "sanctioning" of contests
c) etc, etc, etc, ..... lots to do ....

Steps 1,2,3 are necessary so that we don't have a free-for-all "consensus" method of deciding how to go forward.

I think we need to initially concentrate on getting a working organization going, then prioritize and work on all of the "benefits" that we can deliver to the membership.

And yes, I do have an interest and some ability to participate in this process.

[Jani Soderhall]

Jani, Pat, J-Rad, Corky, Donald, Jack Smith, Marc McCree, Vinzzz, Claude. Others could include Steve Collins, Pauliwog, Kenny, Miko, Harms, Ramon, Fluitt, Richie Carrasco, Vlad.

As expressed earlier on this forum, someone has to step up and begin the process.
Pat? Jani? J-Rad? Vince?

Bradley,

You're absolutely right! The first thing to do is to begin the process. I have decided to personally step aside, because I'm no longer the right person to get things going. I think we cross out a few from your listing. No need to search for cooperation from those that are not currently present at the forum. McCree for example has his own ideas about a race series, and if he can make it happen, that's important for us all. But it does not automatically make him a good representative for getting the ISSA off the ground. Instead we should consider Keith Hollien, who's always supportive of those who are ready to work for this sport.

Any racer can join at any time, but the basic idea is that it should be started by people who want to work together.


Pat,

Your listing seems to be the right way to move forward, but with too much bureaucracy in the start the association may never actually get started. More important than getting the paper work done is to do something. Something that we all feel is important for the sport. Once we have a way to work together we can take the time to do the paper work right.

...just my thoughts.

/Jani

[Donald Campbell]

to get things going all the aforementioned folks should register on a new forum section,which should only be visible to the chosen few.
that would be easy to arrange and it also would avoid blamable situations and so on and so on.

there we will see how interested people-which were listed-are in the whole thing.
from the american side we need hollien,fluitt,and yes hackett

i do have certain ideas regarding the issa,which i would like to discuss privately among a few selected folks,that's why i'm asking for the private forum section.

let me have this section and i'll get things started.
after that,the group will decide who has to play the head-honcho.

[Claude Regnier]

I'll 2nd Donalds post so we can move on with Pat and others thoughts.

[Karl Floitgraf]

Can I be involved, I think it would be good to have one person under 20 in the discussion. I want to be involved in ISSA so that we can build an organization that encourages new young skaters and can assist people starting new clubs and organizations.

I want there to be more school organized clubs, and I know there can be.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Who are the people which should be involved in this private section ?

If every one can register (what is needed), than you can say what ever you want in this Forum as well.

Everyone should be able to be in the round. And in this Forum everyone can give his/her thoughts.

I think in the start we have only to regulate the most important things. And only make this rules which are needed.

The communication starts in a right way here. The people which are interested in the organisation are on this Forum. On ncdsa Vinze posted somthing about this Forum here. In this way, the most are informed where and what's going on.

I don't understand why a private section Forum is needed.

/J-Rad

[Donald Campbell]

jadranko
you will see soon enough why a private section is needed
there's absolutely no need to discuss this in public
besides that we do have a nice list of people to be involved on top of this page-and yes-adding karl to that list would be cool.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

I do not see Hackett or Karl on the list.

I think we should give other's the chance to join this list and be a part of the private section Forum.

Here is the information:
Join ISSA by PayPal:ing $25 to issa@slalomskateboarder.com

I will take the administration for Jani. So if you want to join the ISSA (the private section forum) write me an email on jadranko_r@bluewin.ch

/J-Rad

[Vincent Berruchon]

I also think that a place to discuss only with people who want to get involved is better than having public discussions about everything.
It's more efficient, especially about forums (at least to avoid the bad jokes and forum tourists/trolls - and in the future it can be good to have private talk to prepare announcements and actions).
Some public debat will ever be possible beside.

Of course people who want to get involved should join easily, but only people who want to get involved.
If a structure would have existed (an association/organization..) it would have been good that you have to become a member, but as the goal is to prepare the structure so let's say it should be for organisation/people who want to be member in the future.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Of course people who want to get involved should join easily, but only people who want to get involved.
If a structure would have existed (an association/organization..) it would have been good that you have to become a member, but as the goal is to prepare the structure so let's say it should be for organisation/people who want to be member in the future.

It's not a good idea to take money before somthing happen. But in this way you would only have the people who are interested in this. And it is fair for the other's who had already paid.

If we don't have a criteria (25 $ for the ISSA) than it allows to all people to join the private section. 25 $ isn't so much money... But with this, you see who will be involved in this Forum and who not.

/J-Rad

[Stefano Bellingeri]

If you all do not mind I would be pleased to get involved. It is my personal opinion that concerning the italian side we need "fresh air" to get people involved in slalom racing. I'm not speaking about myself only, Luca Giammarco would be the best candidacy probably. The only point against him is that he is technologically refractive (he does not participate to the forum often and his english is let's say not perfect). So may be we could involve my dear friend Luca and I can support him or we can do things together.
What do you think about? I will speak about this with Luca. Now it is only an idea.
Please let me know.
Thanks,
Stefano

[Vincent Berruchon]

Not much reactions on NCDSA... (there are much in their 6wheelers, timing system and races)
I didn't personnaly try to contact any guys from the US because I supposed some of you ever had.

Another thing, it could be interesting to join as representavive of an association more than just as a personality, even if it's of course no problem to have some personalities as well .
Wouldn't it be good to have affiliations from Association, Federations, Companies?

I'm the Riderz secretary and also the Slalom representative for the Comite National Descente (CND) of the french federation (FFRS). Riderz could join, the CND too.

[Donald Campbell]

once the private section is set up,we will see what happens
anything else is only talk right now.

jadranko:if you want to be a leading person,that's cool for you,maybe not for everybody.

i have other folks in mind with more experience/background(that's how i see it) who are more qualified for that job.
when you are speaking about switzerland i see that you don't have the full support of the whole community.
when vince speaks of france,this is different.he has the support of the whole community,because he's a credible personality.
or when claude or an english representative(there are a few talented men on that island with a broader view of things in general) would be chosen,it would be similar to vinces status.
or maybe fluitt or hollien(keith is an absolutely cool guy to talk with and he's got some brain!!!)
sorry to say that,but this is my honest feeling about the situation right now.
if you want to share thoughts and interesting concepts,which should be approved by the newly-formed community,that would be cool.
i somehow have the feeling that your interest in this whole deal is not the interest i,personnally,want to see.
bottom line is-for me-you are too young and too unexperienced .

no dissing you,but an open and serious thought everybody should consider.
but maybe this is also part of a moreprivately held discussion.

so,jani,your turn.
bring it to life and we'll get things going.

on a side-note:i will help as good as i can but i don't want to have a go at the captain's seat.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

@ Stefano,
Yes, talk with Luca. It is good to have as many as possible opinions together. In this moment now, it doesn't metter who will be in. Every one is invited who is interested in.

What we have is the member fee of 25 $. I will put your name in the List as well. (you can pay this fee at a next race.) Everyone in the List will get an account to this private section.

@ Vinzz,
normally international organisation are based on clubs and national organisation. I think an organisation must and should be allowed to join ISSA as a member. The question is how much weight they should have. An organisation represents every time a lot of people, but this will be a question which must be decided when the ISSA get's started.

Here is the plan:

We will start with the private section of the Forum in the next day's. (I will contact Jani to look if it's possible in this Forum or if we need somthing separate) The List with the members will be added in this Forum.

We should give us time until end of March to collect all the thoughts of all the members in this private section.

After this period we should give us time until end of July to have some proposals how the body should be. Proposals should be done by the members. We will see who is interested in making a proposal how the body should be.

Than we can discuss again and the peopel who makes their proposals can change some things and than prepair it for the voting. The voting should be in the end of august.

The members of this private section will decide which proposal will be taken and than we have the person who has the job to get this thing started.

Than we have 4 moths to prepair the ISSA for her first year after the break.

I think that aren't bad guidlines to get the ISSA started. Another thing is our communication.
I personnaly don't want to invit some people personally to this private section. It is important to publish it here and on ncdsa.com. If there are people who aren't interested in or haven't an opinion, they needn't to participate.


/J-Rad

Another important thing is that there are as many as possible smaller competiton to get more people in the sport. We have this in France, Germany and we start this Year in Siwtzerland too... (sorry, i don't know what happens in the other countries, but this is what i saw in this Forum)

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

Donald,

it's not about me. or that i will be a leading person.

When you read my post before, than you see what my reflecting are.

It isn't based all in my head. It's based in more than one head.

It's very interesting, that you know from where i have support and from where not here in Switzerland.

i somehow have the feeling that your interest in this whole deal is not the interest i,personnally,want to see.

here is the point. The differenz between your interest and my interest is that in my way all people involved in this sport can say what they think. In your interest it's your interest which should be satisfied.

I needn't to be in this organisation and i needn't to do somthing, i make this because i was asked for this.

Your are definitly right, i'am young !

But tell me which other person has organsied every year a race since 2000. I know only one and this is Jack Smith. You even don't know who is behind me and what the people can do behind me.

Our presentation is ready on the internet, you can register for our competitions, you have information about our competitions, you have pictures about our competitions and there are a lot of people in the whole World who had a lot of memories and good times at our competitions, even when the competition is held in Grueningen somwhere in the countryside.

by the way: I'm a member of this newly-formed community as well.

I gave my proposal what i think what the way should be. If the comunity say yes, we want this way and discuss this thing in a private section so we can do this. If the comunity don't want this way, than i needn't to speak anymore about this way. That is the point.

By the way: I have support from Maurus as well from Chris.

/J-Rad

[Donald Campbell]

perfect : let's open the "registered users only forum"
ah yes please recheck your quote underneath this sentence.

"I will take the administration for Jani. So if you want to join the ISSA (the private section forum) write me an email on jadranko_r@bluewin.ch "

that shows a lot

why not ask a bit around before you take anything,eh?
after all,i still have the general feeling-sometimes-that this is a community.

[Ramón Königshausen]

Hm, did I miss anything?

rmn

[Jani Soderhall]

Hm, did I miss anything?

rmn

Ramon,

Keep this kind of posts to a minimum or I'll just start deleting them one by one.
And yes, I'd prefer to do more important things.

/Jani

[Jani Soderhall]

Donald, you've got healthy ideas but it's unfortunate that you are so outspoken on these forums. I don't really think it helps the discussion.


I spoke to J-Rad and I suggested he'd take my role and start to get the wheels rolling. I don't have the time to do what I wanted to do, so assistance is needed. I thought he was a good choice based upon a number of criterias.


Until something else is decided I think the best is that I collect the cash. For those who want to pay to J-Rad during an event, or when seeing him in Switzerland that's OK too, but I'll collect the money and maintain the membership list for now. But I think that's about it when it comes to organization of the new ISSA. (and yes, I'll stay and maintain the site for a while too).

Donald, your idea about a private forum is excellent and most needed for certain discussions, but I have to figure out how to do it in an easy way so that we minimize the maintenance.

Three alternative solutions for now:
a) I install a completely new forum with no real relation to this one. I give out the link to people who pay, and the forum will accept new signups only after verification (std function of these phpBB forums).
b) someone else does it somewhere else.
c) I find a way to set up a private section limited to a group. Anyone knows how to do it? I know how to do it for admins and the like, but for a selected group no.

As for new members, anybody and everybody is invited. But I think there should be a payment. If someone is interested he won't object just because there's a fee. I don't want to send personal letters around to get people involved. But each member can always do so to people they think should be involved.

/Jani

[Stefan Bölsterli]

Hi Jani

I read this "Private forums and those only for specified user groups" on the phpBB
page. It is possible. When you want i can set it up for you. I have to look it up how it works,
but that isnt a problem.

[Ramón Königshausen]

Jani,

I just wanted to mention that I haven't noticed any election of any president-like person and was astonished about J-Rad's announcement. It could be wise to set more than only one person in charge of the ISSA. Certainly not to many, 2 or 3, just to have "some balance" in there. (Hackett, Fluitt or so...if they're interested*).
As I noticed there's just been opened a new topic called "ASSA". What if we had a "ESSA" too which together with the "ASSA" builds up the "ISSA". So we would already have like two "presidents" who would probably get a better overview than a single one who's only at home at one continent. (Well I'm somehow thinking on a government-like council)

I must admit that I haven't read the entire discussion so it might be that my idea is completly unwanted and throws everything in the corner that you worked out until now. In that case I'd feel sorry about my interuption and will only paticipate on the discussion again when I've read the entire thread.


*depends on how the "ASSA" is/will be set up

rmn

[Vincent Berruchon]

@Jani, you can create private forums with group of users with PhphBB, we've got some private forums on Riderz.net. We can ask Nat to know how to do it, or just RTFM.

@Ramon, I think Jadranko proposed to be forum administrator and to do things to start the process.

[Jadranko Radovanovic]

"I will take the administration for Jani. So if you want to join the ISSA (the private section forum) write me an email on jadranko_r@bluewin.ch "

I didn't mean the whole administration. What i meant is the administration for the members and the private forum start. (it is written in the brackets) to allow only the members with a login to partizipate in the discussions.

I don't want to take any president role. only the administration work in the background (private Forum) which must be done that we can start with the privat forum.

In the previous post is the way which i suposed.

1. to discuss what all the members want
2. give the people who want to make a proposal (on paper) some time to bring it on
3. 2nd round of discussion and some changes on the proposals
4. Voting by all memebers which proposal we will take
5. the guy which proposal is selected make the organisation running, the people for the different jobs will be selected from the members. (From this moment the organisation ISSA starts)

Before the organisation starts there are people needed to prepair the things that it can start and this is what Jani asked me for.

It was never the meaning that i take a role of a president.


Donald,
please don't wirte some things about me which you didn't know.
concentrate your power on the objective things in the discussion. I don't know what you want to reach with your personal attacks, but you can stop with it.

[Donald Campbell]

Jani

I know that I sound harsh from time to time, but in the end I reflect opinions of people who are a part of this scene.
As a sad matter of fact these people don't really care to post here on this specific discussion.
The result of my brabble is an accumulation of recently held conversations on this specific topic.

I am more than willing to post what i think also,which is better than silence-my opinion.

A more or less famous person (German skate biz guy and well known accepted skater) gave a short summary of my character which had been approved by all the guys knowing me,here is what he said:
"Donald has a big mouth, but in the end he always backs up what he says and without him there would be a lot more boredom. It's good to have people such as him around and sad that there are not more people such as him to keep the scene more vibrant."

[Ramón Königshausen]

@Ramon, I think Jadranko proposed to be forum administrator and to do things to start the process.

So I'll be calm now...go ahead...


rmn

PS: Why then isn't this topic in the "Site Administration Section"?

PPS: @jani: this post can be deleted.

[Jani Soderhall]

I know that I sound harsh from time to time, but in the end I reflect opinions of people who are a part of this scene.

Don,

I think we should only speak for ourselves. If those "people, who are part of this scene" wants to say something let them do it themselves. If they don't want to do it here, we'll continue without them. If they're not ready to talk, how can we ever agree upon something with "them"?

The truth is, we need to get something going. For that we don't need world-wide majority and we don't need to please everyone. If what we start working on is good, those who agree will eventually join. If it's not good, then it'll fade away and be forgotten.

We have a healthy group here, ready to make things happen, let's do it.


That doesn't prevent anybody from doing what they're already doing. We need every effort that could go into this sport and doesn't have to be all lined up. Outlaw races, Grass Roots efforts, independent race organizations, ISSA, it's all good for the sport!

/Jani

[Jani Soderhall]

Stefan, Vincent,

I just created a private ISSA membership only forum. I had wanted to do this before, but never found out how. You forced me to read the manual. Those who are members should have access to it. Others should ideally not even see it. Now let's check if it works as intended. If I had it configured as it should be.

I gave ASSA a private forum too. It's a group for which Gary Fluitt needed a private forum.

/Jani