ISSA + UKSSA = ?

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Adam Trahan
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ISSA + UKSSA = ?

Post by Adam Trahan » Sat May 22, 2004 9:53 pm

I've spent a couple of hours this morning reading various international oriented internet skateboard slalom venues origniating in the USA. I've read a couple of UK racers that I have come to understand as respectful racers through race results who have had complaint that "the ISSA does not recognize the UK." The two racers in question are Michael Stride and Chris Linford and their comments on the ISSA not recognizing UK races for world ranking.

I present these questions to Jani and Hans:

#1. Has the ISSA and or World Ranking ignored present UK held races regarding ranking?

#2. Has the ISSA in the past ever not regarded the UK in skateboard slalom?

#3. Could you comment or point to where I can read more on the reasoning of what races are chosen and why for world ranking.

John Gilmour - Martin Drayton: Can you advise me on this situation and the history there of?

This web site is born out of my enthusiasm for skateboard slalom and the ISSA and the great history of Slalom! the magazine.

Jani: I know you and what you have reported on in the world of skateboard slalom having read many stories in the history of Slalom! on UK races and results over the years. One only has to look at one's history to see what they are going to do in the future, you have a honorable history, I apologize for questioning you.

Hans: You are working VERY hard to try to organize a world ranking system. I apologize for questioning you but I want to know where these claims are coming from and I want it public.

I have looked into this matter and have read enough to have a good understanding of "who said what about who" and I want to expose the problem right now to get to a solution.

Thank you all in advance.
Chris Linford wrote:As we are not recognised a slalom association and what we do we withdraw all support from this process.

I request that all UKSSA data is withdrawn from this site and we will activity try to distroy the scheme until recognition is paid and an applogy is sent to the second largest slalom series in the world.
...from ncdsa.com
On 5/20/2004 Michael wrote in from 195.92.xxx.xxx:
I find it very amusing that a country with the second largest series of races, and certainly the second most important sales market for US slalom goods should not be recognised as a slalom nation by the ISSA.

I often harp on about how the Brits travel, and recognise that travel in the US is often just as difficult in terms of distances and commitment needed. I reckon the Brits travel to other nations to skate more than any other, with the US riders a close second. Popping over a land border into Switzerland doesnt count. Flying, driving for 8hrs plus does.

I'd like to ask how the Americans might feel if all races in the US counted towards a points system, except those from the most important market, ie California. It would suck big time.

I never had much regard for the ISSA, and the one saving grace from their insult to UK racing is that the whole system of theirs is nul and void, useless, pointless. A bag of poo. As much use as a chocolate fire guard, or Michael Jacksons baby sitting service.

I shall burn all my black socks forthwith.

--------------------

...from ncdsa.com
On 5/20/2004 Clingfilm (UKSSA) wrote in from 195.195.xxx.xxx:
Europe does not recognise the UKSSA. Our competitions do not exist, We are not Real skaters. But these F**king Euros are.

I have had a mail from the world ranking saying that our comps do not qualify. Do not even exist.
I propose a e-mail terror campaign.
email them and say what we are doing and how we do it better than Euro.

I can not tell you how upset I am that we are not recognised, even as the second largest Slalom series in the world behind FCR. I have spent a lot of time with this project have have just been cut out.

This is their quote from my email when I complained

" I didn't think about you having the largest series in the region. I knew there are a couple of competitions in the UK. I have never been able to attend any myself yet and I have not heard anyone speak up for you and the competitions in UK."

Because they do not travel and we do their comps, they are better. This is a Euro centric organisation. Lets stuff them.

This does mean that points in the UK are invalid!!! Sorry to all you guys coming over.

Pissed Off

I am

Email the above link (in the title) and tell them what you think, other wise use
Hans Koraeus
corkyswe@yahoo.com

I have nothing polite to say.

Chris

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sun May 23, 2004 3:59 am

First of all this whole history is based on a misunderstanding. It would have been much easier if Chris had cleared up this thing with me personally instead of throwing himself on the forums with some carefully cut out pieces of my personal letter to him. He sure knows how to create a fire. I don't know what his reasons were for doing this or what his agenda is. I can't believe it's just because of what I wrote to him. I think he has been working really hard on the UK series and my letter was just that last drop making things go overboard.

Adam, I think everything that has to be said have already been said but here it is again, an overview of the latest soap opera.

#1. Has the ISSA and or World Ranking ignored present UK held races regarding ranking?
It's under discussion at the topic
Region East Atlantic: Europe
. Have a look and judge for yourselves.


#2. Has the ISSA in the past ever not regarded the UK in skateboard slalom?
Jani is probably better to answer this. Here is my view.

Jani was the head of the European Skateboard Association in the 80's. Slalom was getting more and more out of interest in the skate world. Nothing was done for them and the slalomers finally got tired of the whole thing. Jani quits the European Skateboard Association and started an association purely for slalom skateboarding, ISSA (International skateboard slalom association). The Slalom! mag was started. If I remember correctly there were 1 or 2 people from each country with active slalomers representing their country. They normally had meetings on the slalom competitions held. The current ISSA rules was one of the results from all these meetings. Slalomers were tired of all the different funny rules made up on each competition. All countries attending competitions at the time was involved. UK was more into really tight slalom than others. Even though Russia was worst with their 1 meter races! The rules was an average of many wills and I think the English racers wasn't happy because rules didn't reflect enough their view of things. Funny enough now long afterwards most people see the courses at the time as in general very tight. I think it's from this that everything started. But UK was not the only country being unhappy. It was a give and take from all countries. Which is normal. I mean try to do the same thing today and you will see.

I don't know why people try to come down on ISSA at all. Like there were an ISSA out there trying to take over the world. They are chasing a ghost from the past. It's time to wake up. ISSA does not exist and function as it did 9 years ago. ISSA is today only a flagship for projects done with an international view rather then a local view. I can only think of three such living projects today that could partly be linked to ISSA and what it stands for, i.e. international slalom skateboarding.

1. This site (for international slalom skateboarding)
2. The World Ranking proposal (international slalom ranking)
3. The latest Slalom! #24 magazine (dedicated purely to slalom skateboarding and the international scene surrounding it)


#3. Could you comment or point to where I can read more on the reasoning of what races are chosen and why for world ranking?
First have a look at Administration: Competition statuses

It's up to organizers and skaters from each world region to discuss and finally decide. For a good example of how this could look like is the Region East Atlantic: Europe.

It can be sensitive if many good competitions are planned for a region.
This is the case in the Europe region right now. It's a simple as that.


#Other things
Funny is that some speaks of europeans being euro centric. What does this mean? I mean should we be america centric instead?

Have a look here for the answers to what a simple misunderstanding can create.
<UKSSA withdraw support>
<UKSSA withdraw from world ranking system>

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Post by Adam Trahan » Sun May 23, 2004 9:31 pm

Thank you for your reply Hans.

I appreciate your work, I find it quite honorable.

Excellent description of what the ISSA is today.

adam

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ISSA

Post by Michael Stride » Mon May 24, 2004 8:15 am

I feel the issue boils down to the fact that the ISSA is unwilling to allocate 'major' status to any UK race. This means that for a UK racer to attend a 'major' race they must pay at least $300 for travel, accomodation, and even then have to pay entry fees. This will skew world rankings. The continentals dont like travelling to the UK, because they will get their respective arses whipped by a large field of quality racers.

The issue of tightness of UK course is idiotic. Whilst it is true that that the UK tended to offer races of varying tightness, the contintentals often only included races of such massive wide cone spacing it was silly. A compromise would have been best, and Chrises inclusing of varying race widths over the past few years shows that we have addressed any potenial concerns.

The ISSA has no relevance to the current slalom scene in either the US or the UK, and as such makes it far form International, and at best a rather regional organisation that votes itself in, and then says it speaks for skaters. Its a nonsense.

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Mon May 24, 2004 1:52 pm

Michael, Michael, Michael,

Read the posts. For example mine just above and stop using ISSA as someone trying to manipulate the slalom scene. You are chasing a ghost from the past. That is nonsens.

If you want a Major or Main status on a UK race why are you not working for that. Go to the World Ranking forum. There is a whole topic just for that. See my post above.

Yes it's expensive to travel. That is why the World ranking is only expecting you to travel to at least 4 competitions a year. The current European proposal gives UK two Prime status. Doesn't sound great but actually 2 Primes are worth more points than one Main. Actually thinking about this it could be even better. It's easier making a trip for Main points. Lot's of people come. Points hard to get. For a Prime less risk for huge crowds of top skilled skaters. Less people. Points could be easier to get.

Also if you want people coming to UK competitions I don't know if "they will get their respective arses whipped" is the best way to go ahead. I would suggest a better way is to call up/e-mail all your skate friends out in Europe and talk to them. Convince them to come and explain how cool it would be if they came. I know for myself if you would have done that with me my summer plans would change and I would certainly convince some of my skate friends to come along. Threats though turns people off. I want to go to competitions for the friendly athmosphere, not to fight. Especially I wouldn't like doing expensive travel for it.

I don't think the main issue is the courses. Not for the Pro's anyway. They now how to handle it and have equipment to run any course if they are just informed about it before going to the competitions. For the Am's that only may have 1 board and doesn't have a clue how to setup their boards it's harder. They could be scared to run tighter courses. That's why a Pro and Am class is useful if you are setting up the courses differently. Different courses are fun but it's often mainly just a question of having the right board for it. Running Jani's and Sweeney's boards in the mid 80's would make you understand why they liked tight courses. Using the long slalom boards and wider trucks of today you understand why the new slalom skaters like wider courses.
Last edited by Hans Koraeus on Mon May 24, 2004 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ISSA

Post by Adam Trahan » Mon May 24, 2004 3:54 pm

Michael Stride wrote:[...snipped]The ISSA has no relevance to the current slalom scene in either the US or the UK, and as such makes it far form International, and at best a rather regional organisation that votes itself in, and then says it speaks for skaters. Its a nonsense.
Well now, I can appreciate the clarity of that statement.

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Post by John Gilmour » Mon May 24, 2004 8:32 pm

What Hans says about garnering points of UK skaters with 2 primes does make a great deal of sense.

The question is....do UK skaters want points without much threat from Pros trying to take them away, or do they want bigger comps?

I have not raced in the UK and I would like to to know the prefered way of UK race rules, course construction etc...

From past experience the UK has a different way of going about things.
They drive on the other side of the road. (I don't mind doing this)

Similar yet very different.

Their cricket is our baseball. (Uhhh. I'll take neither)
Their football is our soccer.
Snooker vs Pool. (snooker is cool, pool is too easy)
English Squash vs 70+. (you must be really good to play english squash well)

Just look at the original game of tennis invented by the Brits- Court tennis was invented in debtors prision...it bears little semblance to our tennis. In Court tennis you are allowed to play the ball off the roof.

So is it the rules? The events? Or solely points allocation?
Last edited by John Gilmour on Mon May 24, 2004 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hans Up!

Post by Michael Stride » Mon May 24, 2004 8:32 pm

Hans, if you awarded proper points to UK races then maybe the continental riders would get of their backsides and travel to the UK. Your system actively discourages this happening.

How does your scewed system help UK racing? It doesnt. Thats why it sucks. Also by allowing continental riders to feel they in some way can hack it with the best racers means that when the time comes and they travel to the World Championships they WILL get their arses whipped, and travelled a lot further for the privilidge.

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Looking forward to competiting in the UK

Post by John Gilmour » Mon May 24, 2004 9:15 pm

Like I said somewhere before-

There are extremely low cost flights available to the UK. Island nations with a lot of trade try and keep fares low to promote tourism and trade.

The question is- a UK comp- would it be organized well enough to meet the criteria for Mains or Major status? Is the surface- hill- location- IDEAL? Not that the 1st Morro Bay (our first "Major" since the rebirth) was ideal as there was no major airport, nor ideal surface, nor much pitch....but we are aiming for improvement all the time. Morro Bay did have good prize money and media attention though - may we expect that at a UK competetition? Good competitions should feel like a competition not feel like a practice session with prize money.

I would like to see a well organized UK comp with at least most of the following- great hill, great surface, good course, media, prize money, promotion, spectators, after party. It's hard to do, I haven't quite pulled it off yet.

The question is....Who is going to do it? Certainly not ISSA, nor FCR, you guys have to do it yourself. If you can. If not- you travel like everyone else.

Currently the skill level of the UK slalomers is likely better than the new guard Euro skaters. IMHO I don't think that they would have beaten the great Euro skaters from 90-95 on a very fast technical downhill course. But I would like to be proved wrong. Only one way to find out.....

You build it- they will come. Get together 1st place $3000, 2nd place $1500, 3rd place $1000 4th place $700 5th place $250 6th place $150 7-10th $100

Everyone would come to race. $7000 in prize money. You would liklely get "major" status if you pull it off- certainly no less than "main" status.

And if you want to encourage the French to come- promise to announce in French and English- as they did in Paris.
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Post by John Gilmour » Mon May 24, 2004 9:20 pm

What I would really like to see is the ability to redeem your points for something...

How about frequent flyer miles?
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Annonces

Post by Michael Stride » Mon May 24, 2004 9:22 pm

John the reason English was used in Paris was not just for the benifit of the English, but for every non francophone nation. Its normal, and practical.

The likely hood of English races being announced in other languages is zero.

Any French races with that kind of prize money? Nope.

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Post by Hans Koraeus » Mon May 24, 2004 11:20 pm

Michael, as I have explained before I am not awarding points to anyone. It's up to the organizers to talk for their cause. And it's up to those skaters who care to judge and help out selecting what status to set for the competitions for the year. Higher status may attract some skaters but it's not the only factor going to a skateboard competition. There are many other factors involved. In 2003 long before the World Ranking proposal how many "Mainland" Europeans entered a UK competition? None? I think in contrary to you that having World ranking statuses will attract people going to more competitions. And for any missing out on 1 or 2 Mains will suddenly throw an eye on UK and say. Hey let's go to Brands Hatch and have some fun and try getting hold of some of those World ranking points. I think it's way too early to judge what is going to happen. I know a lot of people that will not be able to go to all the Main competitions. Last year they didn't have any carrot to go searching for other competitions. This year they have. I'm sure you will see some "mainland" skaters in the UK this year.

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Post by John Gilmour » Tue May 25, 2004 5:58 am

I realize that English has become the "common language" for many nations --ironic that in the USA Spanish might become predominate as demographics continue.

I just know that the French are not as motivated to learn English. Certainly we would not expect this of the Swiss.

The Prize money at the Trocadero this year promises to be good. Though not as much as I posted...but if you really wanted to get a lot of people over to the UK to race..I would wager that the money I mentioned would be what you would need to attract 10-15 Californians 8-10 East Coasters all of Team Radikal, The Colorado crew, and a few others. Certainly it would draw a lot of people from within Europe.

The draw of a scenic near perfect venue like the Eiffel tower, guaranteed spectators, skating in the heart of one of Europes biggest and most attractive cities seems to make the prize money less of a motivating factor.

I had to choose between Paris and Brands last year. I had skated at the Trocadero and knew what I could reasonably expect- so I chose Paris.

But I do feel Brands has the capacity for faster more challenging courses- so that is the next International Destination on my list when I get out of this stupid CPM machine.
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Post by Chris Eggers » Tue May 25, 2004 7:32 am

The main reason I have not been to any UK race is that they never have start ramps........sorry for that. I would love to kick Michaels arse in his homeland so I would not have to travel too far to beat an open World Champion but not with a push start and another hurting achilles ligament afterwards. But it will happen one day. If I then get a few WR points as a sweetie to it, it will be great.
Sorry for interfering a good discussion with my nonsense, but I felt like it with only 3 hours of sleep last night. Have fun guys and see you soon.

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Post by John Gilmour » Tue May 25, 2004 8:03 am

Even with the hurt leg I'm looking forward to push starts. From the photos Brands hill looks to be one of the best.

It is ironic as an American to see the British wanting to leave the Union.
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Post by Chris Eggers » Tue May 25, 2004 8:06 am

I just don´t like them. I like the feel of standing on a ramp nd starting a race. Just like Jani explained in a nother post.

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Post by Mike Johnson » Tue May 25, 2004 8:54 am

Headline from the London Times, "Fog in English channel-Europe cut off"

;-)

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Ramps

Post by Michael Stride » Tue May 25, 2004 9:09 am

Chris Eggers likes ramps as he gets a better view of my technique.


I believe that silverstone is ramp start, though Cloingfilm can confirm this.

And Hans....you are confirming EXACTLY why your system is scewed, warped, and bent. Its not JUST about continental racers coming to the UK. Its about racers that DONT, CANT, WONT, travel to the continent. Many have family commitments, and what your system does is deny those racers the chance to gain points on an even basis and judge their abiliities in a ranking system on a level playing field. What it does mean is that to gain proper points a UK racer MUST go to the continent, and that is unfair. The UK has a large, vibrant slalom scene and this is not reflected in your system.

You go on about advocating for race points. Fact is most UK racers dont look at this forum as it is dominated by the same three people, and also certain subjects such as 'ISSA' havenot had activity for nearly a year. You know where UK racers look and talk, so please have the courtesy to respect that and put pointers on NCDSA.

As it stands your system is a joke, we all know its a joke and as it has no credibility in two of the largest slalom nations you are going to have to change it so that it fair. But then I'm arguing with the guy who thought it up.....of course your biased......who do I complain to to get it changed.....???? Thats the problem with the ISSA.

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Re: Ramps

Post by Adam Trahan » Tue May 25, 2004 3:30 pm

Michael Stride wrote:Chris Eggers likes ramps as he gets a better view of my technique.


I believe that silverstone is ramp start, though Cloingfilm can confirm this.

And Hans....you are confirming EXACTLY why your system is scewed, warped, and bent. Its not JUST about continental racers coming to the UK. Its about racers that DONT, CANT, WONT, travel to the continent. Many have family commitments, and what your system does is deny those racers the chance to gain points on an even basis and judge their abiliities in a ranking system on a level playing field. What it does mean is that to gain proper points a UK racer MUST go to the continent, and that is unfair. The UK has a large, vibrant slalom scene and this is not reflected in your system.

You go on about advocating for race points. Fact is most UK racers dont look at this forum as it is dominated by the same three people, and also certain subjects such as 'ISSA' havenot had activity for nearly a year. You know where UK racers look and talk, so please have the courtesy to respect that and put pointers on NCDSA.

As it stands your system is a joke, we all know its a joke and as it has no credibility in two of the largest slalom nations you are going to have to change it so that it fair. But then I'm arguing with the guy who thought it up.....of course your biased......who do I complain to to get it changed.....???? Thats the problem with the ISSA.
This is simple.

Hans, you are not going to make everyone happy with your attempt at a World Ranking System. Although Michael has a great history as a slalom racer, it is of my opinion that his words are the ones that are skewed, he has given enough examples for people to read on their own and figure it out for themselves. Use extreme caution in maintaining your balance for decisions.

Michael, remember, you are always welcome to post your opinion, that is how we work things. Although I do not agree with you, your opinion counts and should be heard.

Please carry on Hans and thank you for your efforts. I know you are listening to all sides and you will use reason to develope the WRS.

Have fun.

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Skewed

Post by Michael Stride » Tue May 25, 2004 3:41 pm

Why are my words scewed?

Perhaps its because you cant see that this forum is dominated by 3 people who purport to speak for slalom? Please review how often people have posted on soem of your threads. And especially that the ISSA thread is almots 1 year old with no new info. That is so obviousely a nonsense. No wonder UK racers dont go here to look and see what is happening behind our backs, as the one place where the facts should be displayed has had no activity since 11 months ago.

And if Hans WAS listening he'd realise that that the system he proposes is skewed in favour of contintal Euro riders. He has spent a lot of time and effort on his own to produce a system that if he listened, or cultivated opinions BEFORE announcing his ideas went live then we wouldnt see this rubbish. Its very easy to satnd by a race with a clipboard and think you have some influence in how a series should be run. But unless you listen to other nations, other riders and other organisations (UKSSA) then you will have no credibility.

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Post by Adam Trahan » Tue May 25, 2004 4:23 pm

We are out to DOMINATE THE WORLD.

We are coming to your back door Stride.

BOO!

It's scary isn't it?

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Boo Hoo

Post by Michael Stride » Tue May 25, 2004 4:57 pm

Your last post shows you to be an ignoramus. I suggest you review it, delete it and apologise.

If you have nothing to add to the debate, sod off. And I am very surprised you shpuld feel the need to lower yourself to such idiotic posts. Plonker.

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Post by Jon Warburton » Tue May 25, 2004 5:08 pm

hear hear

adam that post is the kind of thing id expect from me, we expect more from someone of your "standing".
DONT VOTE - IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THE BASTARDS

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Post by Adam Trahan » Tue May 25, 2004 5:52 pm

My last post was in sarcasm.

Please lighten up a little, I don't think you are a bad guy Michael. I enjoy your humour. I don't agree with your view, that's all. (same goes for Clingfilm)

If I ever make it to the UK to see the circles in the corn, you will be the first person I look up to have a pint of Guinness with.

Problem is, I am a human, I know I make mistakes, I try to be "upstanding" but one persons version of that word may not go along with anothers.

The absolute last thing I want is someone getting the idea that I am some sort of "never make a mistake self proclaimed head of the slalom skateboard racing world baaahloney."

I'm just one single person speaking for myself and I have the ability to edit what is written at this web site. I will take care of that responsibilty, you guys will make sure of that.

At this point, I have nothing further to add so I will take your advice.

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Post by John Gilmour » Fri May 28, 2004 6:41 am

I looked at the UKSSA site and saw this. http://www.ukssa.net/mainpage1.html
showing roughly 26 skaters competing for last year.

But we see a lot of slalom gear consumed by the UK.

It is strange. Bob Turner said he sold over 1/3 of all Turners to the UK- but we didn't seemeny people competeing on them. Martin Drayton is the only one I know from the UK who competes on Turner. You'll see Martin with his board here. http://www.attikus.com/tv/tv_7.html

I sold him that deck.

In contrast- you'll see very limited amounts of slalom gear consumed on the East Coast of the USA yet...it seems most who purchase the gear, race the gear. Looking at the size of the last Gathering it would appear that there are more people interested in racing on the East Coast than in the UK...perhaps by a factor of 3.

That being said should the points allocated for the UK be 1/3 of what hte East Coast of the USA gets.....?

IMHO no. I think the points should be an incentive for racers to mix with other racers at different locations. So while the points should not be 1/3 of the East Coast points, I don't feel they should be equal either.


Smaller slalom scenes need support, and while the Average skill level of the UK skaters may be greater than that of the European skaters I can't see awarding more total points to the UK. As it is likely without a lot of foreign participation...the points will concentrate within the top 5 UK skaters.

I am not sure the UK skaters will see all the points accumulate within the European skaters like as what is likely to happen with the UK skaters.

For instance IMHO this weekend it is doubtful that any French skaters will podium at Trocadero in pro class.....unless of course...if Jose Dematos comes out of reirement.

Where will those points go? Like to Italy and the USA. My predictions.

TS results
Luca
Vlad
Richie C.
Hollien (Keith should be at home on this course- short wb could cost him)

(Actual results Luca (IT), strobel(SUI), vlad (RUS) ,segrist (SUI)

GS results
Luca
Olson (short course-fast start advantage)
Carrasco
Mandarino
(Vlad's a wild card here)
(Actual results Hart (sui), Luca (IT), Ritchie (USA), Seigrist (Sui)

Special Slalom
Luca
Vlad (if course requires extension, Richie C. if it is more a fall line course)
Soderhall (if he enters)
Mandarino

(actual results Luca (IT) , Ritchie (USA) , Hart, (SUI), Vlad (Rus)

Women
Sindolava destroys all comers- winning most races by more than 1 second. The fastest woman slalomer I have ever seen. Unless having all those kids slowed her down.

(Lynn Kramer) (USA)


So in the single track GS It would appear that that the European country that garnered the most points was (CH) Switzerland. Luca got some points for Italy- but the Swiss, not the French benefited the most.

Price (9th) and Linford (11th) both beat the fastest Frenchman Jean Paul (15th) and garnered more points Stride (21st) likely rode his Bozi again and is flanked by Americans with Olson (20th) and Mandarino (22nd)

Seeing as the Trocadero race is easier to get to than a USA race it looks like Price and Linford get more points for their dollar with the Trocadero listed as a Main rather than as a Prime.

Notably- Price and Linford did very well as I doubt they practice GS this offset on such a gentle slope- though they have great flatland skills. Hollien (USA) 5th, did very well also as he comes from Flordia which is relatively flat- as Did Vlad who also comes from a flat area- near DC

The wild card- Carasco USA 3rd, Who does well on nearly any GS course- be they flat (like Huntington Beach) or steep and super offset (La Costa) as he trains in both locales.

The question remains- on their own Engla Terra, would the UK skaters hold their own against the Swiss, Italians, And USA racers to merit a Main status? Stay tuned for next weekend.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour

Chris Linford
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Last comment

Post by Chris Linford » Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:08 pm

What a load of trash by everyone.
Ramps (bollocks) I had full respect for Chris E until then.
You stand on a board or are you on roller skates!!!

Basically
Euro's do not come to England (look at the records) Americans do (and beat us).
The system is set up to be Euro biased. The scale of the US is not taken into account.

The system has fundamental flaws. Repair it and we may join, or I may stop trashing it (with my wrist repaired I will have more time for this next year).
You may also find that your sites stop working or other daring do's.

Wise up

CONSULT THE UK
arseholes

Chris

Donald Campbell
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Post by Donald Campbell » Wed Sep 29, 2004 8:34 pm

woah hey shit's flying all around here
chris-i don't know you,yet,that will change soon enough...
i know sam and paul,also met michael,niall,martin-all of em good guys,to say the least...
honestly said i am no big europe-fan,but when i talk about europe one of the first countries i can think of is great britain.
definitely a big part of europe in my and all of my friends understanding.
so,as i see it here,these chaps don't get the recognition they want regarding issa standings(i just understood what issa means after having read that whole thread).
corky,you might smythe me for that,but my impression of the whole affair is that i see that politics are being played to the disadvantage of our english neighbours,which saddens me a lot.
i am still tupid enough to think that this slalomscene is pure and unspoiled.

having read that thread i come to a different conclusion,sad to say so,but that's my impression.

why not give 2 uk-races the status they are asking for and thus pushing those events to new heights regarding international attention?

that would be easy,wouldn't it?

i wanted to skate at brands hatch this year and only the dentist made me back off after having removed a tooth from my mouth,prior to the race.

why did i want to go there?
because sam and michael were there and i would have loved to skate with them at the race.
regarding chris and his posts here:
i think you took him wrong in what he was saying,or how he meant it:
trust me,i made the same mistake,even though we have the same native language.his comments on the subject were a bit unlucky formulated to say it that way,but no ill will towards any of you brits.
and if it is the start-ramps which are needed-get that shit and everybody is happy.i don't mind doing a foot-start either,but....

this is my statement on that embarrassing subject.


besides that,on a very personal point of view,regarding your "skills".

you will receive some major "kicks in the ass" next year coming from germany.michael-better start with your training now and hang on to it during wintertime at least 2 times a week.tell sam i said hi too.
you guys are asking for it-next year the germans will set the record staright-loser pays the beer,deal?
expect us to come over next season-keep me posted on when and where,prepare for battle and don't be too surprised.hahahahahahaha

Adam Trahan
Phoenix, AZ, USA
Phoenix, AZ, USA
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Re: Last comment

Post by Adam Trahan » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:33 am

Chris Linford wrote: You may also find that your sites stop working or other daring do's.
Hey Chris,

Do you really think skateboarding is that serious?

I don't.

Have some fun.

Drink a Guinness.

Laugh at yourself once in a while, it's good for your soul.

All the best!

adam

Niall Horton-Stephens
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Location: London, England

Post by Niall Horton-Stephens » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:36 am

Thanks for your kind words, Donald, from your post a few days ago.

I do agree with much of what you say and wanted to add some thoughts, as someone that has got back into slalom just this last year. This may mean I don't have the credibility, knowledge or right to express an opinion. It may mean that I am not carrying the "baggage" of long standing political arguments.

So, apologies for going back to basics, but maybe we all need to agree some common ground and common goals, for instance...

1) Constructive criticism takes our sport forwards.

2) Our sport is enhanced by each country's active participation as it gives each event more "world class" credibility. Our sport is diminished if there are splinter groups and events cease to have a worldwide field.

3) I think we all enjoy the challenge of racing as great a variety of skaters as possible.

4) No single country is more important than any other.

5) Discussions about associations / competitions / rules, etc, etc where things tend to get heated should not undermine the reason that most of us love our sport. i.e. the friendly rivalry + the camraderie which we thrive on.

Is it possible therefore to draw a line under past disagreements and start afresh?

It would be great if us Brits could get together during the long winter months and make plans for next year. I know I have been guilty of turning up at UK events, putting a few cones out and thinking I've helped! Well, it's not enough. Chris Linford has largely, singlehandedly organised everything (respect) in the UK this year, but I'm sure that he would appreciate help from a wider group next year.

Let's get a group together that will really help lift some of the load. Let's break the task ahead into little bits. Maybe someone can organise ramps? We need someone prepared to badger the sports council for money, someone to publicise the events, somone to liaise with the international community regarding our plans, etc. One person cannot do this as fully as ten people. With the right help I'm sure we could enhance already great events like Brands and make them real showpieces.

I'd be prepared to try and do something to help and I know that there's plenty of others. Can we schedule a winter AGM and move it forward?

Who's up for it?

Niall.

Donald Campbell
Pavel
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Post by Donald Campbell » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:52 pm

one of the most excellent posts i've read,regarding the discussion.
niall,thanks!!!!!!
now,if the involved parties could just inhale a bit of niall's spirit and move this subject to a happy ending

Martin Drayton
Gecko Decks
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Good call!

Post by Martin Drayton » Sat Oct 02, 2004 2:51 pm

Well said Niall (and Donald)...This can all be discussed and we can move forward for the good of the sport without name-calling and abuse, after all we all want the same thing...

Hans Koraeus
Corky - World Ranking Master Mind
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Post by Hans Koraeus » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:31 am

This is how the World Ranking status balance has looked like so far in the European region counting the value of a first place as comparison.


European region 2003:
1300 France: Paris (Main) 500 + Antibes (Major) 800
580 UK: Eastbourne (Prime) 250 + Brand Hatch (Prime Pro-Open) 330
500 Switzerland: Gruningen (Main)
390 Germany: Koln (Main)
250 Sweden: Stockholm (Prime)


European region 2004:
1000 France: Paris (Main) + Antibes (Main)
800 Germany: Koln (Major)
580 UK: Silverstone (Prime Pro-Open) 330 + Brand Hatch (Prime) 250
500 Switzerland: Gruningen (Main)
250 Sweden: Stockholm (Prime)
250 Latvia: Riga (Prime)


European region 2005:
To be discussed. I will personally vote for a Main status for UK in 2005 whatever other competitions will turn up.

Maybe too early yet for the status discussion for 2005 but have a look at 2004 discussions here.

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