2008 ISSA Rules Update - Section 3 (Equipment)

[Ramón Königshausen]

Chaput, you and your pesky facts. Banning isn't about fact, it's about emotions. Your wheels give an emotional advantage over the people that beat the skaters on momos. They must be banned because innovation (whether it turns out or not) is scary! I blame Frank Nasworthy, the old cheat. Oh, and you.

Whenever I entered a GS race and there was CBark with his Momos running down the hill, I rather felt curious about how he'll do than I felt an emotional disadvantage. I didn't want them like they are but someday it would be nice to have them to put on a lathe and experiment...

rmn

[Jim Weatherwax]

Pat

my last post was not written as an attack, please change the name I adressed it to to gang, people or slalom skateboarders of planet eart and re post it, I believe it held a very valuable point. and the person whose name was used was for an exampe , not as a target and the point goes for everyone of us...if you cant buy the advantage, work for an advantage. Or is that not the feeling of the ISSA? Maybe the ISSA wants to hold back progress (or just certain peoples progress)? The targets of your rule discriminations that certain members are pushing twords are quite transparent, and arguments for advancement shouldnt be hidden from the skaters.

Censoship of ideas is no way to run the ISSA discussions.

[Ron Barbagallo]

Okay, legitimate question - what if a racer, not a manufacturer, not even a SPONSORED racer, just a guy who rides a skateboard and works in a machine shop decides to make his own truck just for shits and giggles, not to sell, can he race it? I mean it's gotta be safe and all. Even if it's just a CNC version of a Tracker or a Randal or something - no real innovations or maybe the other end of the spectrum and SOME kind of innovation. Let's just say the guy has billets of aluminum laying around and some free time and figures, "Hey, I can pretty much copy a Radikal for free on my lunchtimes." - is that still considered a prototype? Not tryin' to be a dick or anything, just wondering how deep this goes.

Maybe there can be a committee that has to check these items out or something? Like you hafta submit a prototype and some of you guys ride it and decide "yay" or "nay" ?

Or am I stupid and this is too much detail? Just tryin' to help

[Jim Weatherwax]

Ron

good point ( i hope Pat doesnt see this an an attack twords you, I am just addressing your question, like in the post he deleted)

If someone isnt allowed to make something that doesnt break the mold of Lean steer, 2 trucks, 4 wheels, no bindings etc. (yes Chris, I know that hasnt been decided yet) that would leave us without any innovation. Rules banning protos, 1 offs and ideas will kill the growth of innovation, which has made the game alot faster, safer and more interesting. Someone had to race the first set of Radikals (no body cried foul twords Kenny) Someone raced the first sets of GOG'S (anybody cry at Jason or Richie?). PLease Ron, if you have an idea, build it, ride it, race it and have fun, hopefully the ISSA board will all chime in on thisissue before it is decided. I want to see innovative wheels, theuck, bearings and new construction methods for boards, and banning protos or stuff that not everybody can get before the race is a complete joke.

People will always want the newest, greatest etc, and many will use the fact that someone has what they dont/cant afford/cant get yet/wont take the time or spend the money to innovate as an excuse for being beaten..thats racing...
Quit typing and start practicing...
Eat Ramen for a month to afford better stuff... maybe no starbucks for a month...no beers for a while(that is unless you are buying beer from my brewery:) )...
Swallow the bitter pill that someone else has a better job, better sponsor or is just a far better skater and work on your technique and save your pennies.
This have not BS has to be stopped once it is decided upon what the actual racing platform is. If you dont have big wheels, and you really want them, have them made, produce your own line of wheels to combat the ones you cant get.

[Dave Gale]

Not to muddy the waters, but toe blocks are a form of binding. albeit 1 or 2 demensional, and normally used only on the front foot..It still is a binding of sorts.

[Wesley Tucker]

Not to muddy the waters, but toe blocks are a form of binding. albeit 1 or 2 demensional, and normally used only on the front foot..It still is a binding of sorts.

No they are not.

With a BINDING a skater could not become separated from the board.
With a TOE BLOCK there is no restraint.

Toe blocks are nothing more than an extension of the concept behind concaves, C-blocks and kicktails: making sure as much torque is transmitted into the board from the skater's legs and feet. That's not "binding."

[Ramón Königshausen]

Hey, if some of us care so much about equipment restrictions, why not set up a new class: The limited equipment classs where everybody would have to race on the exact same deck with the exact same setup of trucks, wheels, grip tape, bearings, spacers, nuts, bolts, bushings and lube.

That would be pretty interesting. Kiss goodbye to the idealism.

How's that?

rmn

[Pat Chewning]

Pat

my last post was not written as an attack, please change the name I adressed it to to gang, people or slalom skateboarders of planet eart and re post it, I believe it held a very valuable point. and the person whose name was used was for an exampe , not as a target and the point goes for everyone of us...if you cant buy the advantage, work for an advantage. Or is that not the feeling of the ISSA? Maybe the ISSA wants to hold back progress (or just certain peoples progress)? The targets of your rule discriminations that certain members are pushing twords are quite transparent, and arguments for advancement shouldnt be hidden from the skaters.

Censoship of ideas is no way to run the ISSA discussions.

The post I deleted was from Claude. It followed your "last post". It was a response to your post. It was an attack on you. It contained no useful information or contribution. Your "last post" has not been deleted, but has been editted (not by me).

[Dave Gale]

Wesley,
This is where the murkiness comes into play. A toe block is a mechanism attached to the board that restrains the foot from moving foreward, and also can be shaped or oriented to restrain lateral movement. It is not a part of the deck, but an add on that "binds" the foot in place re: at least 1 but not limited to a singlular direction of movement.

[Pat Chewning]

Ron

good point ( i hope Pat doesnt see this an an attack twords you, I am just addressing your question, like in the post he deleted)

I did not delete your post.

[Pat Chewning]

C) The equipment deviates from our ideal, goal, or aesthetic vision of what skateboard slalom racing should be.

This is opening a whole new can of worms!!! Has our "ideal, goal or aesthetic vision" of slalom skateboard racing ever been formally written down, received input from marketing professionals or even been seriously discussed anywhere?

Yes. Our vision of slalom skateboard racing gets discussed every day on these forums. It has been formally written down in the 1995 ISSA rules. We are attempting to revise and update those rules now -- to conform to the current ideal, goal, and aesthetic vision of slalom skateboarding. Whether we admit it or not, many of the rules are a direct result of trying to embody our ideals, goals, and aesthetic visions.

No. I am not aware of any input from marketing professionals.

Yes, occassionally the discussion is serious, focused, and productive. (But only occassionally.)

[Joe Iacovelli]

The biggest issue in 2007 was how many wheels can a slalom skateboard have.

I'd like to see a vote put to the membership that brings that issue to rest.

I understand that there are other issues to be addressed like bindings and toe stops, but to tap dance around the 6 wheel issue seems cowardly.

Is a skateboard one deck, two trucks, 4 wheels or something else? What does our roll of paid members think?

[Dave Gale]

Not to muddy the waters, but toe blocks are a form of binding. albeit 1 or 2 demensional, and normally used only on the front foot..It still is a binding of sorts.

No they are not.

With a BINDING a skater could not become separated from the board.
With a TOE BLOCK there is no restraint.

Toe blocks are nothing more than an extension of the concept behind concaves, C-blocks and kicktails: making sure as much torque is transmitted into the board from the skater's legs and feet. That's not "binding."

While I know most S.Carolinians don't snow ski, but even a skier can be seperated from his skis if enough force is applied. A water skier is even less attached to the ski(s) But these mechanisms are known to the world as bindings. They are attached to the platform to aid in maintaing foot placement (not to insure it). Are "Skyhooks" considered bindings?

[Ramón Königshausen]

Has ever anybody (successfully) used bindings in a Slalomskateboard race? Why should I use some kind of binding when I have concave, toe stop and grip tape?

rmn

[Dave Gale]

Joe I.
Polls have been taken and it seems that as a majority, most approve of the 6 wheelers.
I for one think they should be allowed.

[Wesley Tucker]

With a BINDING a skater could not become separated from the board.
With a TOE BLOCK there is no restraint.

While I know most S.Carolinians don't snow ski, but even a skier can be seperated from his skis if enough force is applied. A water skier is even less attached to the ski(s) But these mechanisms are known to the world as bindings. They are attached to the platform to aid in maintaing foot placement (not to insure it). Are "Skyhooks" considered bindings?

And if I gave a damn about snow skiiers your points would be relevant.

There is no murkiness among skaters who go to skateboard slalom races.

Toe blocks are not bindings.

Deal with it or don't.

[Dave Gale]

Simply pointing out the possible problem(s) down the road w/ the wording of equiptment guidelines.
Oh..by the way, You're wrong!
And obviously having a hard time debating from a closed minded point of view!

[Pat Chewning]

Pat, You're way off base about my reasons for not wanting to see bindings at a race. It has NOTHING to do with how they look whatsoever. I probably care the LEAST of everyone about how things look. I don't think that skateboarding is about fashion, style, or matters of taste. ...

Ironically, the only REAL issue that I think that currently needs to be addressed is in some of the accessories, namely toe-stops that serve as bindings. I don't want to see bindings because they blur the line between roller-skates and skateboards and can be used differently than simply standing on the board and leaning, and they can also aid in hopping a tapeswitch.
...

When you say "I don't want to see bindings....." That is exactly a "ideal, goal, or aesthetic vision" -- meant to somehow distinguish skateboard racing from rolle skates.

I think that you SHOULD care about what's safe and what's unfair. Bindings are one of the few things are really do differentiate a skateboard from a rollerskate. But if if what we bring is skateboard and not a rollerskate, bike, or other obvious non-skateboard, then let it race. What in the hell is everyone so afraid of?

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but what I'm afraid of is that your definition of "obvious non-skateboard" differs from mine, and that without defining what is "non-skateboard" we will forever be bickering on the hill about it.

Right now Pat has put forth HIS vision of what a skateboard is, and is acting as if THAT is what we should all accept if no one gives him a compelling enough reason to change his mind. It's as if his OPINION has become the accepted definition, and we can all make minor tweaks to it. No, no, no, no, no. I have so many objections to his definitions that it would be better to start from scratch with my own than to to try and modify his. I do belive that the deck should be one platform.

Yes, I have an opinion about the definition of "skateboard". Yes, I embodied that into the initial draft of the rules. I think I have been clear that other definitions and options are encouraged and that in the end, we will vote on it.

My proposal for the process to get to an end solution is here: http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=5552

I am still seeking volunteers to take the process forward in each section.

[Ron Barbagallo]

I think the toe stop thing can be regulated by: "Must not break the vertical plane" as in NOT wrapping over on top of the foot.

I don't run one, but all of the ones that I see at the races seem to comply with this.

There, done.


Now what else can I solve for you?

[Joe Iacovelli]

Joe I.
Polls have been taken and it seems that as a majority, most approve of the 6 wheelers.
I for one think they should be allowed.

I believe that poll was taken on Silverfish. I believe the audience was uneducated and not necessarily of our membership. For our purposes polls are pointless. Lets vote.

[Dave Gale]

Well done Ron!!! See how simple the wording can be? I don't usually use them either, and have no problem w/ them...It was just a wording that needed your attention!
OK, so, how 'bout the 6 wheeler debate?

[Dave Gale]

Joe I.
Polls have been taken and it seems that as a majority, most approve of the 6 wheelers.
I for one think they should be allowed.

I believe that poll was taken on Silverfish. I believe the audience was uneducated and not necessarily of our membership. For our purposes polls are pointless. Lets vote.

Ready when you are!

[Curt Chapman]

This is opening a whole new can of worms!!! Has our "ideal, goal or aesthetic vision" of slalom skateboard racing ever been formally written down, received input from marketing professionals or even been seriously discussed anywhere? Has any sort of a serious marketing plan ever been developed or followed by the ISSA? If not, this sounds like nothing more than the opinions of a few...

A marketing plan needs to be developed and goals set so that we have some sense of direction. Who is our target audience? What sort of equipment should the competitors use to appeal to the target audience? What sort of events should be developed to appeal to the audience? These questions raise many, many more questions and quickly this topic becomes a huge issue. The ISSA needs to be asking itself these things as the rulebook is being developed. All of the pieces need to fit together if this sport is ever going to go anywhere.

If Marketing is of any interest to the ISSA when thinking about these equipment rules, then the ISSA better tread very carefully when it comes to restricting equipment.

Don't shoot the messenger, but here's my personal experience with "specialized" equipment: I recently built a six-wheeler just for giggles. (And because it was a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a precision "traction" rear truck.) My 7-year-old son has only been slightly interested in skateboarding with dad... Until he saw the schwheeler. He had to ride it, and has been skating much more since then. My TS board is pretty "cool" when it comes to slalom gear. Carbon-fiber, precison trucks, blah blah blah, but it's not as cool to a 7-year-old as a schwheeler with tracker racetracks. So, because of that six-wheeler, now my son rides ALL of our skateboards a lot more. Same with all the neighborhood kids. They see me or my son riding the schwheeler, and they want to try it. They could care less about riding the other neighborhood kid's popsicle sticks, but when they see that "cool skateboard with six wheels" they want to try it, and they've gotta try and see if they can get it through some the cones.

I wasn't trying to "market" slalom skateboarding by adding another truck and set of wheels to my board, but because it's new / different / creative, it has created interest in the sport.

Restricting innovative and creative equipment will do nothing but stagnate the sport.

[Curt Chapman]

Joe I.
Polls have been taken and it seems that as a majority, most approve of the 6 wheelers.
I for one think they should be allowed.

I believe that poll was taken on Silverfish. I believe the audience was uneducated and not necessarily of our membership. For our purposes polls are pointless. Lets vote.

There were polls on both Silverfish and here on the ISSA board:

http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=5136

[Pat Chewning]

I think the toe stop thing can be regulated by: "Must not break the vertical plane" as in NOT wrapping over on top of the foot.

I don't run one, but all of the ones that I see at the races seem to comply with this.

There, done.


Now what else can I solve for you?

Here is a toe block that probably would be prohibited by the "break the vertical plane" wording.



As I think it should be ....

The photo is unclear as to whether or not it "overhangs" the foot and "breaks the vertical plane"

[Ramón Königshausen]

So then David Pirnack is going do be withdrawn his World Championship Title in Hybrid Slalom?

rmn

[Wesley Tucker]

I think the toe stop thing can be regulated by: "Must not break the vertical plane" as in NOT wrapping over on top of the foot.

I don't run one, but all of the ones that I see at the races seem to comply with this.

There, done.


Now what else can I solve for you?

Here is a toe block that probably would be prohibited by the "break the vertical plane" wording.



As I think it should be ....

No it would not. And no it shouldn't.

This toe block is simply an open frame accomplishing the same thing a solid toe block accomplished. The design shown does not wrap over or around the foot. It is simply a lightweight functional toe block used to transmit a person's forward momentum and torque to the wheels.

This is not contradictory in any way to the toe block allowance.

[Dave Gale]

No it would not. And no it shouldn't.

This toe block is simply an open frame accomplishing the same thing a solid toe block accomplished. The design shown does not wrap over or around the foot. It is simply a lightweight functional toe block used to transmit a person's forward momentum and torque to the wheel

Isn't that what a binding does? It actually transmits the person's foreward momentum and torque to the deck, which in turn transmits to the trucks, which in the end transmit to the wheels.

I'm not gonna nit-pick, but that can be constituted as a binding of sort!! Period

[Erik Basil]

Joe I.
Polls have been taken and it seems that as a majority, most approve of the 6 wheelers.
I for one think they should be allowed.

I believe that poll was taken on Silverfish. I believe the audience was uneducated and not necessarily of our membership. For our purposes polls are pointless. Lets vote.

One poll was taken on Silverfish. It was started by Zak Maytum, a young skater of some current reknown and many of the uneducated people you so despise voted in it. Each of their names is visible...including the uneducated Wesley Tucker, Donald Campbell, Claude Regnier, Chris Chaput, Ron Barbagallo and others that are not a member of any elite club, but are skaterboarders. Are they below we of the Order of the ISSA or are they somehow above us for not having descended to the gutters of picayune? I don't know the answer to that, but I do know that a smart fella such as yourself (and anyone else reading this) can look at that poll, the various levels of discussion/bickering/flaming and insight contained in the threads, then gander at who voted and how and then get an idea what various skaters think...even those not elite enough to be "of our membership".

That thread is here, for anyone that would like to take a look: http://www.silverfishlongboarding.com/f ... hp?t=46602

Another poll was taken right here at the ISSA site, by the highly educated, insider cum laude, Donald Campbell. I linked to it earlier in this thread (it's on the first page for most folks) and, although you cannot see who voted each way, you may find yourself encouraged that the participants were only "of our membership", no matter how uneducated and naive they may be.

The ISSA poll by Donald Campbell, is here: http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=5136

The banning of skateboards from slalom has been bantered around for more than a year. There have been polls. There are certainly a hardcore few that have ensured it remains a very personal issue, even though the guy you were all so scared of hasn't been racing on one. Newsflash: even our own ISSA members have voted in favor of tradition: run what ya brung. The rest of the skateboard world look in on this and laugh at the repeated attempts to re-poll, revisit or redesign the issue so that anyone other than a hardcore few will support banning skateboards from skateboard racing.

If we don't like the results of informal polls, let's put the matter to a simple vote, and one that's honest: Shall Skateboards with more than 4 wheels be banned from all ISSA competition? The bickering gets nowhere... at least nowhere we haven't already trod.

[Ron Barbagallo]

Well done Ron!!! See how simple the wording can be? I don't usually use them either, and have no problem w/ them...It was just a wording that needed your attention!
OK, so, how 'bout the 6 wheeler debate?

Well.........now that you ask:

Eh? I have one. I made one when I saw Chappy's. And I did it just because it looked cool - kinda like what CMC said above. See? I agreed with Curt even though he didn't blow his party horn while he was racing at our NJ Outlaw race - but I digress.

Now those of you that know me also know that I am no one in the race standings - D class at best. That being said, here's what I think aboot the 666wheeler - I really don't see it as an advantage. Yes, in theory it provides more traction in the back, but realistically only on certain courses. On a GS or more likely on a Super G kinda course it MAY be an advantage. On the majority of the courses I've raced in the past few years, that translates into maybe a couple. It seems to me that the additional traction really only becomes an asset above a certain speed, at lower speeds the 6 seems a bit ungainly.

Will Chris Chaput and his 666wheeler beat Jason Mitchell or Dominick (yeah, I'll go Euro for ya'!) running GOG's and BigZigs? Prolly not - no offense Chris, you're a great guy and a great racer - but those two have screws loose, and you can't beat insane with conventional weapons.

Now remember this MY OPINION ONLY, and based on NO FACTS WHATSOEVER! But Dave asked me what I thought and since I have a tiny bit of experience with riding a 6, I thought I'd chime in.

Perhaps there could be an equipment approval committee like I said before. If Mr Chappadoodledoo would like to race his 6 or some other Weapon of Cone Destruction, he could provide a sample or prototype to The Committee for evaluation. If The Committee finds it to be safe and not a blatant advantage like an engine or nuclear device, then it's "approved for racing" - nothing more. The Committee does not encourage said item, only says that it's safe for competition.

Racers then may or may not try it. If it's truly better, then everyone will want one. This will in turn bring the price down for said item making it available to the masses...blah, blah, blah, capitalist/marketing blah.

All I'm saying is this: there's a fine line between innovation and unfair advantage. Is a 6er really an unfair advantage? Everyone CAN have/make/buy one, so I don't see it as unfair. Advantage? MAYBE - and if it is and racers embrace and use it, it becomes an innovation.

Okay, so group hug and we all get some nice jelly doughnuts and coffee

Next?

[Donald Campbell]

i strongly support what marcus pointed out.
it is very important to keep the basic rules simple and understandable.
his proposals were very overseeable and understandable,whereas your(pat) ruleset is
more than irritating.
chaput made his points too and they seem also to be just.
please keep this simple and understandable for the masses you don't have to ridicule them.

thanks marcus for making this look good

[HUYNH BACH SAC Frédéric]

Hey, if some of us care so much about equipment restrictions, why not set up a new class: The limited equipment classs where everybody would have to race on the exact same deck with the exact same setup of trucks, wheels, grip tape, bearings, spacers, nuts, bolts, bushings and lube.

That would be pretty interesting. Kiss goodbye to the idealism.

How's that?

rmn

I like the idea, like in sailing racings...

[Dave Gale]

Joe I.
Thanks for bringing the unflattering remark I made to my attention (I've edited it out)
Joe Iacovelli wrote:
Dave Gale wrote:
Joe I.
Polls have been taken and it seems that as a majority, most approve of the 6 wheelers.
I for one think they should be allowed.


I believe that poll was taken on Silverfish. I believe the audience was uneducated and not necessarily of our membership. For our purposes polls are pointless. Lets vote

[Pat Chewning]

Informal polls give us some idea of where people are thinking. But they are different than a vote of the members of the ISSA on the subject of the EXACT wording of the rules that we agree to use for racing.

We will soon be having a VOTE of the MEMBERS of the ISSA for the EXACT WORDING of the rules.

All we need is a volunteer to devise the vote, pass it by the rest of us to make sure it is complete and without bias, then we can vote.

Who is going to volunteer to do this?

The process is outlined here:

http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=5552

[Pat Chewning]

So then David Pirnack is going do be withdrawn his World Championship Title in Hybrid Slalom?

rmn

I hope this is a joke, right?

The rules we are discussing are for the FUTURE, not the PAST.

[Erik Basil]

Ron your solution on toe stops is simple and effective. It makes clear that a mounted barrel bushing, extended bolt or nub of wood is okay, and also that an inverted conical bushing wouldn't be. Good job.

Since there are some toe stops out there that use a barrel/pivot to elevate a contoured piece, those might be implicated too...especially when someone races in Doc Martens that can notch down under the "toe stop" and then they ollie right over a cone (where's Jack Smith?)... Anyway, I think the arguments over whether a toe stop is or isn't a binding aren't focused on the solution: do we want to allow toe stops? Do we only want toe-stops that aren't overlapped or hooked onto shoes? If that's the case: "Toe stops are allowed, so long as they aren't hooked over or overlapping the shoe". Now it doesn't matter what the semantics are, it's allowed.

[Pat Chewning]

i strongly support what marcus pointed out.
it is very important to keep the basic rules simple and understandable.
his proposals were very overseeable and understandable,whereas your(pat) ruleset is
more than irritating.
chaput made his points too and they seem also to be just.
please keep this simple and understandable for the masses you don't have to ridicule them.

thanks marcus for making this look good

Marcus's contribution does seem to be gaining proponents. Will Marcus volunteer to be the moderator of the vote for this section of the rules? I think he would do a good job. He certainly made improvements over the initial draft of this section.

What about it, Marcus?
http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=5552

I never intended to ridicule anyone. I am guilty of drafting the initial proposal with too much complexity.

[Donald Campbell]

simplicity is the key to all rules involved

[Ramón Königshausen]

So then David Pirnack is going do be withdrawn his World Championship Title in Hybrid Slalom?

rmn

I hope this is a joke, right?

The rules we are discussing are for the FUTURE, not the PAST.

I just wanted to emphasize the aspect that this exact type of toe block has been successfully used and now someone wants to prohibit it.

rmn

[Pat Chewning]

simplicity is the key to all rules involved

That is a good point. Maybe when we get to the voting, we should ensure that one of the selections is:

F) None of the above, this rule is not needed, delete it.

[Curt Chapman]

Eh? I have one. I made one when I saw Chappy's. And I did it just because it looked cool - kinda like what CMC said above. See? I agreed with Curt even though he didn't blow his party horn while he was racing at our NJ Outlaw race - but I digress.

[Threadjack]

FB,

I believe you've got me mixed up with Carve Master Curt DeBartolo

But that's ok, we both seem to enjoy carving sideways on planks.... Now, back to your regularly scheduled daytime-talkshow-type program...

[/Threadjack]

[Ron Barbagallo]

Eh? I have one. I made one when I saw Chappy's. And I did it just because it looked cool - kinda like what CMC said above. See? I agreed with Curt even though he didn't blow his party horn while he was racing at our NJ Outlaw race - but I digress.

[Threadjack]

FB,

I believe you've got me mixed up with Carve Master Curt DeBartolo

But that's ok, we both seem to enjoy carving sideways on planks.... Now, back to your regularly scheduled daytime-talkshow-type program...

[/Threadjack]

You sir are correct!

If you know CMC, then you KNOW how stringent my apology is!!!!

Apology x100, my good man!!!

[Joe Iacovelli]

EB,

I don't feel that any user (ISSA or SF) is fully educated. Information on 6 wheel boards has not been fully shared. I'm sorry if my post came off that way.

I'd like to see a forum for ISSA members to share information for a finite period of time, and then vote. Let's resolve this issue once and for all.

I'm currently on the board of directors, can I call for a vote?

Joe

[Marcus Rietema]

i strongly support what marcus pointed out.
it is very important to keep the basic rules simple and understandable.
his proposals were very overseeable and understandable,whereas your(pat) ruleset is
more than irritating.
chaput made his points too and they seem also to be just.
please keep this simple and understandable for the masses you don't have to ridicule them.

thanks marcus for making this look good

Marcus's contribution does seem to be gaining proponents. Will Marcus volunteer to be the moderator of the vote for this section of the rules? I think he would do a good job. He certainly made improvements over the initial draft of this section.

What about it, Marcus?
http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=5552

I never intended to ridicule anyone. I am guilty of drafting the initial proposal with too much complexity.

Yes, I will do it. When will my deadline be to put a ballot together? I think we should let people continue to talk about this subject and explore different options before we actually put it to a vote.

[Wesley Tucker]

As soon as skaters start riding in snow, ice and water then maybe bindings will be applicable.

Any further attempt to equate sky bindings with slalom skateboard bindings is nothing more than obstinate intransigence in the face of reality.

Have at it.

[Pat Chewning]

EB,

I don't feel that any user (ISSA or SF) is fully educated. Information on 6 wheel boards has not been fully shared. I'm sorry if my post came off that way.

I'd like to see a forum for ISSA members to share information for a finite period of time, and then vote. Let's resolve this issue once and for all.

I'm currently on the board of directors, can I call for a vote?

Joe

You may, but I would like to suggest we follow the method decribed for the voting on rules, so that the end result is a complete set of rules, rather than a piecemeal approach to each item.

Method described here: http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=5552

Example methodology here:http://www.slalomskateboarder.com/phpBB ... php?t=5552

Voting approx Nov 15-30


I see that Marcus has volunteered to take on the "Moderator" task for the "Equipment" section of the rules. -- So a vote will soon be on the way.

[Pat Chewning]

Yes, I will do it. When will my deadline be to put a ballot together? I think we should let people continue to talk about this subject and explore different options before we actually put it to a vote.

Voting start: Nov 15
Voting end: Nov 30

We have now til Nov 15 to prepare and discuss a complete, unbiased wording of the voting.

[Wesley Tucker]

As far as ISSA in concerned the "six wheel issue" is settled until December 31, 2007. We decided through the end of this year race organizers had the discretion to allow or disallow a six-wheeled skateboard.

So, by me calendar, we have 73 days to determine and ratify a rule for the 2008 season and beyond.

[Dave Gale]

As soon as skaters start riding in snow, ice and water then maybe bindings will be applicable.

Any further attempt to equate sky bindings with slalom skateboard bindings is nothing more than obstinate intransigence in the face of reality.

Have at it.

Aint tryin' to equate anything!
Simply pointing out a possible controversy in the future re: limitations, and the wording of such!
A binding, is a binding. Concave is concave (unless viewed 180 out, then it becomes convex)
Just as a wheel is a wheel (no matter how many there are)
Simplicity at it's finest!

Are we on the same page yet?

[Wesley Tucker]

Are we on the same page yet?

I have no clue. Your book must be written in Swahili.

Here's the bottom line: toe stops will not be banned. Bindings will.