3rd Generation ?

Split-Fire Skateboard Trucks

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Martin Drayton
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3rd Generation ?

Post by Martin Drayton » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:09 am

Hi Gary/Wax,

Saw on the site that the 3rd generation Splits/Dragons will be arriving mid-November. If its not giving too much away, how will they differ?
Version 2 went from Tracker baseplates to Randals...Version 3?

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New Splitfires...

Post by David Baker » Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:51 am

I have heard from an inside source that the new trucks were developed using gravity warp technology borrowed from alien space craft at area 51... The only side effect has been some pulled back muscles when test subjects forgot to turn them off before trying to pick up their boards.

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lighter and sexier

Post by Christopher Bara » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:38 pm

Perfect when your target market is a bunch of middle aged guys going thru a midlife crisis!

You forgot to mention trimmed bushings

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Base plates

Post by Marty Schaub » Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:24 am

Jim, Gary,

Did you do anything to alleviate the baseplate problem?
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Post by Leonardo Ojeda » Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:59 am

question: could it make a difference on the bushings if they are trimmed so they fit the inner circle of the hanger hence get more fit with the kingpin?
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Post by Gary Fluitt » Sat Oct 22, 2005 3:54 am

Leonardo,
bushings that fit the Splitfire hanger include the Khiro, and the old Tracker Stimulators. The white Khiro bushings are super super soft and over time (and not much of it) they will get chewed up in the hanger. I replace them every couple of months, or before a major race. The Stims are big and fat and they last a really long time, so I've been using the same stims for 2 seasons.
Trimming bushings is a bummer I like to avoid, but a narrow bushing will make it even softer and more responsive. What seems to be working for a lot of guys, and this is not splitfire specific, but true for most trucks, is to trim the width of the bushing, not the height. A longish narrow bushing seems to work well. This is what Mollica rides and Barker too.
I like a standard Yellow Stim on the baseplate side of the hanger, and a standard White khiro Barrel bushing on the top. I also like Barrel bushings on top and bottom on the front, especially for TS.
Yes that is a 50 degree RII base on the rear. Heresy - I realize running a "front" truck in back. Lotta camber on this board so it's OK, really.
<br><center>
<img src="http://asphaltplayground.com/images/how_to/bushings.jpg">

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A Wes in need.....

Post by Marty Schaub » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:07 am

Hey Wes,

I thought you already owned three of everything built since 74. Comparing you collection with Bara's would be a treat.
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I ain't got no nothing

Post by Wesley Tucker » Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:14 am

Marty Schaub wrote:Hey Wes,

I thought you already owned three of everything built since 74.
Ha! Compared to guys like Tway and Iacovelli my cupboard is more bare than ol' Mutha' Hubbard ever imagined.

Besides, I got no Manxs, I got no Radikals, I got no PVDs, I got no Gumballs, I got no Axes, I got no Fatboys, I got no Pavels, I got no Split Fires, I got no . . . I got no . . . I got no . . . I got no . . .
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Mon Oct 31, 2005 11:30 pm

I got the following e-mail this afternoon from FedEx:
Gary Fluitt sent Wesley Piercy Tucker
a FedEx Express Saver Package.

This shipment is scheduled to be sent on 31OCT05.

The tracking number(s) are: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

To track this shipment online click on the following link:
https://www.fedex.com/Tracking?tracknum ... XXXXXXXXXX
Nice touch, Gary
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Piercy re-born?

Post by Marty Schaub » Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:30 am

About the time Piercy dies, Tucker emerges......

HMMMMM, Gary I think your on to something here.........
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uncovered

Post by Gary Fluitt » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:22 am

no body, no grave. A connection to the Columbians, witness protection. Resurfaces on the East Coast under an alleged name. WHO still stands on a skateboard like that? Brewington's height eliminates him from get go. It's all there, plain as day.

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Spacers and what do to next?

Post by Wesley Tucker » Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:50 am

Gary,

OK. We're stumped.

I received my Splitfires today and have one question: in what order to you install the wheel and spacers?

The truck comes with THREE AXLE ADD-ONS: A wide spacer, ONE speed ring and this strange-looking, never before seen conical-ended thin spacer.

Image

So what's what and what's the deal with this strange conical spacer? Any advice or direction would be appreciated. (By the way, I talked with Marion today and he's as equally mystified. That makes me feel better. At least I'm not the only guy in the dark on all this!)

Thanks.

P.S. Nice looking piece of machinery. And great delivery service. Keep up the good work!
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spaced out

Post by Gary Fluitt » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:08 am

Wes. It's a puzzle, if I give you the answer where is the fun in that?

The axles on the new Splitfire are generous. So generous in fact that if you slam a wheel on the axles you will still have bare axle hanging out on the outside of the bearing before you get to the threads. So if you are running the truck in it's narrow-est configuration (90mm or 107mm) there will be some axle to suck up on the outside of the wheel. In this case, use the 10mm spacer on the outside of the wheel.

If you want to run the truck a little wider, say 10mm wider, so 100mm or 117mm, put the conical 5mm aluminum spacers on first, then wheel, then the 10mm spacer. face the coned sider of the spacer toward the bearing shield.

If your feeling ghetto and you want to run your truck w i d e, slap the 10mm spacer on first, then wheel, then the 5mm spacer.

Finally, the speed ring is only necessary on the outside of the wheel, if you were running the truck super wide, like J-Lo wide, with the 10mm AND the 5mm on the inside of the wheel for what would be 120mm and 137mm effective hanger width. I've not done this, cause I never run that wide a hanger, even in Super G. And I don't like putting my wheels that far away from the hanger, though I'm sure the axles would have no problem running them that way.

Would pictures be useful?

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:32 am

Gary,

Nope. I'll have to admit it was the one-speed-ring/conical spacer combination that confused me the most. Of course, feel free to post pics here for a reference to anyone else who has the same questions when they pull their Splits out of the box for the first time.

Fortunately for all of us, this note from you will always be available on SS.com and easily referred to in the future.

When the Icks get here and I start with the screwdriver and socket wrench, I'll come back to this to keep everything straight.

Thanks.
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Post by Adam Daniels » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:59 am

may we see a picture of the whole truck please? whenever i see a new post to this topic i check it asap in hopes of a picture :)
No vestido para mi

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:37 am

All you had to do was ask:

Image

Image

Image
Image

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Post by Leonardo Ojeda » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:50 am

no colors on the new ones gary?

i need your address for my bearing problem/

Leo
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SEXY, SEXY, SEXY

Post by Robert Sydia » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:00 pm

Those are incredibly SEXY

Excellent work to all those involved

Rob

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Post by Steve Collins » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:08 am

are the 3's basically the same, geometry-wise, as the previous versions?

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3s

Post by Gary Fluitt » Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:28 pm

steve - the geometry (35 rear and 50 front) are unchanged, and the hanger widths (90mm and 107mm) are the same in rev3. The change is in the profile of the pivot bolt area. We took this down quite a bit to lighten it up. You can see that in the photo below...<br><center>
<img src="http://asphaltplayground.com/images/vie ... r></center>
Additionally I've made the bushing seats deeper so that the bushings will stay in place better. You can see that a khiro bushing fits deeply into the bushing socket now almost up to the screened lettering on the bushing...<br><center>
<img src="http://asphaltplayground.com/images/vie ... r></center>
lastly, the bearing shoulder on the side of the hanger is a bit more raised, about 2mm. I suppose if there were someone out there that HAD to have an 86mm split, they could simply grind off the bearing shoulders. You'd still want to run speed washers on the inside of the wheel. <br><center>
<img src="http://asphaltplayground.com/images/view1.jpg">

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You got a purty truck...

Post by Martin Drayton » Sat Nov 05, 2005 7:21 pm

Gets better every time! I've said it once and I'll say it again...the easiest high performance truck to get used to AND the best value! Its also damned sexy looking too...

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schplit fahr

Post by Steve Collins » Sat Nov 05, 2005 8:03 pm

I agree, the pivot refinement is an aesthetic improvement as well.

Now when is somebody going to produce RII-replacement precision baseplates (please)?

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Tip for Conical Spacers for Splitfires

Post by Paul Howard » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:30 pm

Hey, here's what I do:

1) Go to a bike shop, take your hanger and the Asphalt Playground conical spacers with you.

2) Show the bike shop person your hanger and tell them you need a spacer that will fit OVER the bearing shoulder so you have a better bigger base for the conical spacer to bear it's compression load against.

****NOTE**** The Phase I Splitfire had a bearing shoulder that matched perfectly with spacer ring washers from bike shops (I don't remember the exact thickness or inner hole diameter). HOWEVER, the Phase III bearing shoulder sticks out farther and flares slightly as it projects away from the hanger toward the axle tip and thus has a slightly larger diameter than the bearing shoulder compared to the Phase I bearing shoulder.

If you can't find a spacer ring that fits around it, a smidgeon of careful filing with a metal file around the bearing shoulder cicumferentially will solve that issue. ALSO, the Phase III bearing shoulder projects out farther so you might need to use 2 spacer rings to fill that gap so the AP conical spacer ring has a solid seat.

3) After you have obtained bike spacer rings that fit(or used a file on the Splitfire bearing shoulders to reduce their diameter to get them to fit), put them on the hanger over the bearing shoulders and put the Asphalt Playground conical spacer ring on the axle next to the bike spacer ring. Now you will have a really nice solid base to support the leverage load on your axles from riding with your hanger spaced out(assuming you have the axle nuts tightened down snug).

I ride Grippins a lot, and I like a little wider hanger width than most peaple so I only use the conical spacers "inside" the wheels next to the hanger and the extra bearing spacer "outside" the wheel next to the nut. This is because I'm paranoid and feel that extending much more than the amount of the conical spacer is sort of a bad practice in terms of straining the axles. I use this setup for tight and hybrid courses with Grippins. This will put your wheels almost exactly even with riding with Avalons or Manx without the spacers.

For G/S riding with Avalons, Avila's, Manx, or Gumballs, this method will work great if you want that little bit more hanger width for a bigger faster course.

More Deep Thoughts:

I applaud Gary and Wax for using overly-long semi-axles installed into the Splitfire hanger for the reason that if the bearings (even with the conical spacer in use) are completely supported by non-threaded clean axle within them, the wheel alignment will be a smidge better with less wiggle room also, and by requiring a spacer between the wheel and the axle nut, that will help with perpendicular loading of stress on the bearing even if the nut is not perfectly true.

Using Wallgren style "Monkey Nuts" to me is always a good idea whether you get them from Wallgren or do it yourself with an electric drill and a file.

Plus JBH's precicion Machinist made bearing spacers really work.

How the Phase II's fit into all of this , I don't know but I'm sure all of the above is applicable.

Well, I thought this would be a lot shorter than what I just wrote. Good Luck-Paul
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Re: 3s

Post by Miguel Marco » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:46 pm

Gary Fluitt wrote:Additionally I've made the bushing seats deeper so that the bushings will stay in place better. You can see that a khiro bushing fits deeply into the bushing socket now almost up to the screened lettering on the bushing...
Does this new feature rule out the use of bushings like the Stimulators or JimZ's? I'm running a rear Phase II with a bottom Stim and top JimZ and wouldn't trade that combo for anything. I was planning on buying a pair of Phase III's but if those bushings don't fit, I'll start looking for used Phase II's...

And thanks Paul for all those tips... :)

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Post by Mike Cividino » Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:50 pm

they fit mig!

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Post by Miguel Marco » Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:05 pm

Thanks Civ!

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Post by Robert Sydia » Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:35 pm

Mig:

How do you have your rear split fire set-up?

I have one installed on my GS board and do not seem to have it dialed in yet.

Any insight and/or advice would be greatly appreciated.

All the best

Rob

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Post by Ron Barbagallo » Wed Nov 16, 2005 8:24 pm

Well, you jerks talked me into these things

They better be good!!!!!!!!
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Post by Miguel Marco » Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:53 pm

Robert Sydia wrote:Mig:

How do you have your rear split fire set-up?

I have one installed on my GS board and do not seem to have it dialed in yet.

Any insight and/or advice would be greatly appreciated.

All the best

Rob
Mine works great now, after a bit of tinkering. I have it setup with medium green Stimulator on the bottom without washer, top JimZ on the top with inverted small cup washer. Felt a bit weird at first, then I noticed that the bushings were popping out of the seats! I had to lengthen the pivot screw and lock it with the bolt to keep the bushings in place. May try a bottom JimZ on the top to see if I can get even more acceleration out of the turns, if the snow melts for a couple of days before we really get buried for the winter...

I ran it with -8° wedge at first. Ended up wanting a little bit more turn from the back with my current setup(*) so I traded the Khiro wedge rail stacks for a hard plastic wedge (probably around -5° now).

But one thing is a big let down for me. When I dissassembled the hanger to take care of the bushing seats problem after my first session, I checked it's straightness and was really disappointed. I can't imagine how well it would perform if it was truly straight!

(*) Skaterbuilt CK GS, MMW RTX team truck on the front with bottom JimZ bushing on the bottom with inverted small cup washer and lathed medium green Stim on the top with flat washer, 7° wedge.

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Post by Robert Sydia » Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:33 pm

Mig:

Thanks for the input - I was running mine flat in the rear and was experiencing a fair amount of slide out, especially in large high speed GS offsets.

I think the solution is de-wedging - I will try -5 and see how it performs.

What was wrong with the bushing seat????

I a currently running my Splitfire with a full green stim bottom, custom lathed green stim on top, flat washers on both ends.

Thanks for the input

All the best

Rob

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Post by Miguel Marco » Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:09 pm

Robert Sydia wrote:I think the solution is de-wedging - I will try -5 and see how it performs.
If it's for big GS offsets, I'd go for -7°. That's what I ran at The Farm Outlaw Finale and was really happy with it's performance. I went to -5° and a smaller wheelbase because the last few sessions were kind of on a tighish hybrid course...
Robert Sydia wrote:What was wrong with the bushing seat????
Nothing was wrong with the bushing seats. It's just that the pivot was too short. So it made the hanger "lean" towards the pivot and impeded the bushings from resting flat in the seats. So I had to unscrew the pivot bolt until the bushings were totally flat in the seats and then locked it there with the nut. Does that make any sense??? :)

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Post by Steve Collins » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:34 am

Robert Sydia wrote:Mig:

How do you have your rear split fire set-up?
JimZ fat bushing bottom (similar hardness to hard stim but bigger), trimmed hard stim top

Randal DH 35 degree baseplate

no additional wedging

kicks ass

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Post by Marion Karr » Fri Nov 18, 2005 7:13 am

Ok...here come's the dumbass newbie question so go ahead and start laughing.....Gary, I finally had time to mount my new Splitfires on my 36" Pocket Pistol Foam Core. (Have not had much time to actually mess with my boards since the Dixie Cup). When I went to install wheels (in this case, cut down Avilas) with the following spacer order from inside to out.....Conical spacer, wheel, speed ring, 10 mm spacer, nut....I did not have enough room to thread the nut on properly. I was not down to the nylon lock threads and the nut easily came off. I tried seating the bearings thinking I had not got them completely inserted in the wheel but this was the case on both sides. (Rear Truck).

Can someone tell me what I am doing wrong? I like the width that the use of the conical spacer inside gave me but there is no way I can ride it with the nut not threading properly.

Any suggestions?
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Post by Mike Cividino » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:43 pm

Marion, try without the 10mm spacer on the outside and see if it works, if not, got to the bike shop and get some 4mm chain ring spacers, they work great.

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Post by Eddy Martinez » Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:52 am

Damm Canadian peer pressure I also broke down and ordered a front Truck off of the Bahne site. Those pics are berry berry sexy. Eddy Texas Outlaws.

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spaced out

Post by Gary Fluitt » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:23 am

Marion- Not sure whats up with the spacing issue. I'll have another look at the current 107 and see if I can reproduce it. In the meantime, I'll send you some more 5mm spacers.
Gary

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Post by Jim Weatherwax » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:00 am

Marion, there shouldnt be enough room for the conical spacer, a wheel with 10mm spacing and a 10 mm spacer on the outside. Get rid of either spacer and you will be fine, but it should not work with both(or none for that matter) the axles are made for 10 mm spacing...

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Post by Tod Oles » Tue Nov 22, 2005 8:49 am

Jim, Gary

I tried my new rear Splitfire out for the first time today and I must say, my trusty 30* Seismic has been put up for adoption.

Also,

It was nice of you guys to match my 90mm hanger with a correctly drilled Randal base... (I never knew they came like that.....) ;-)
Will we see a matching base soon?

Very nice work! Thank you,

Tod
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Post by Chris Barrett » Tue Nov 22, 2005 7:15 pm

Eddy Martinez wrote:Damm Canadian peer pressure I also broke down and ordered a front Truck off of the Bahne site. Those pics are berry berry sexy. Eddy Texas Outlaws.
hey eddy, you know all the cool kids up here are on the crack today ;)

I got a question about the 3rd gen; the threaded pivot points, do they come in different sizes or anything? Not a complaint, just a question :D. I was noticing that my fronts pivot ball was loose so I was gonna use some locktight or just put a nut on it and counter fasten it.
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Post by Chris Favero » Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:08 am

i am running 90's,in staesville i ran a 30degree base with a blak kihro on the bottom and a red on the top with the wheels all spaced out.i really like these trucks.cf
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Post by Gary Fluitt » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:51 pm

Chris,
The front pivot is meant to be adjustable. You can actually change the angle of the truck a couple of degrees that way. I don't know anyone that can feel 2 degrees of angle change, but hey, maybe my palette is not trained well enough.
Anyway, to lock it down use a nut, and lock tite. I've done this with my trucks and it works great.
Lynn Kramer made a suggestion that we use fine thread pivot bolts for finer adjustment and more secure/solid locking, perhaps with a nylock nut. I am looking into that. Any other suggestions, let me her em'
thanks,
gary

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Post by Gary Fluitt » Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:54 pm

Tod,
To machine a high performance base would add probably $70 to the retail cost of the truck. Would you guys be into that? I mean, I'll do it, ifn you guys want them. Doesn't do much to democratize slalom skateboarding, but as long as you guys will line up for a high tech fix, who am I to turn you away....
nice avatar shot by the way....
Gary

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Post by Jonathan Harms » Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:46 pm

nice avatar shot by the way....
Ah, yes: T.O. going PDQ on the GS in TGP in STL, shot by G.F.

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Post by Tod Oles » Sat Dec 10, 2005 7:25 pm

Gary,

I'd take a couple of baseplates if you decide to do some...

Any idea of the angles you'd be making?? A 60* front and a 30* rear may be nice
as thats close to how they'll get wedged anyway...(well, at least by me) :-?

Also, maybe "slotting" the rear mounting holes just a little bit might be a nice feature
to ease stuffing a long mounting bolt through the deck, fat end of wedge, baseplate combo. I hate fighting that. Especially between heats at a race.....

Hey, JBH

Wasn't the same without you guys in NC.....
And yeah, Greg can even make the slow look like they're in a hurry.....

I think Gary's sandboarding shot and you skating goofy footed are cool shots too...
If you're into that kinda stuff.... ;-)

Thanks 4 listening, Tod
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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:50 pm

What advantage/purpose shall CNC shaped baseplates have?

rmn
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Post by Wesley Tucker » Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:07 pm

Ramón Königshausen wrote:What advantage/purpose shall CNC shaped baseplates have?

rmn
Superior billing and increased profit.

Duh.
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Steve Collins
Harbor Skateboard Racing
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Post by Steve Collins » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:47 pm

Wesley Tucker wrote:Duh.
Wes, my kids get timeouts for talking to grownups like that.

Ramon, the increased precision and geometric accuracy should appeal to us gear geeks, not that it will help any of us beat you. Then again, your question was a little facetious, no?

Ramón Königshausen
Airflow - Skateboards
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Post by Ramón Königshausen » Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:01 am

If your money is worth it...

What do you want to make more precisely?
The pivot? Your bushings? Your Kingpin? Drillings?

There are only two points on that the hanger touches the baseplate: Pivot and Bushing

How do we solve this "problem" now?
Take a look at a very certain truck....



Of course, this post shall be "a little facetious".

Enjoy experimenting during the offseason ;-)
I will look at your news half critically, half curiously.

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

Wesley Tucker
1961-2013 (RIP)
1961-2013 (RIP)
Posts: 3279
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am

Bushing Cap For Splitfire?

Post by Wesley Tucker » Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:18 pm

Gary and Wax,

I still haven't mounted the Splitfires you sent. I'm waiting for the ickMeister to do the VooDoo that he do so well and I'm keeping all this stuff brand new til my new decks are here.

I do, though, have a question. I never noticed before, but this morning I was looking at the hardware and realized the bushing/hangar connection has no cap:

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And you can see that a goodly portion of the Khiro bushing is unsupported and kind of "hanging out" in space:

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I went ahead and inserted a cap just to see how it would fit and it looks like it was made for a Khiro:

Image

Now the entire bushing is supported.

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My immediate gut reaction is this would improve the way the action responds between the bushing and the baseplate. Plus it would extend the life of the bushing as the whole piece is now in action instead of just a portion in the middle. In other words, more even wear.

What do you think? A credible upgrade or just over engineering? I've got a boat load of these caps from other old trucks and doing this is easy. I'd just like to hear if there is a particular reason caps were left off the Randal baseplate or if this little upgrade would have any real appreaciable affect on performance.

Merry Christmas to ya'!
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Ramón Königshausen
Airflow - Skateboards
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Just to make it complete

Post by Ramón Königshausen » Sat Dec 24, 2005 5:56 pm

Image

Image

merry x-mas

rmn
Feel the flow – Airflow Skateboards

Real skateboard wheels come in green – ABEC11

Enjoy the ride – GOG Slalom & DH Trucks

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