Are race results based on qualifying positions?

[Christopher Bara]

OK....i'm just starting to read the slalomranking site and i'm confused about something.
It looks like the top 4 racers in an event are given the 1 thru 4 points....and everybody else goes down the line in their qualifying order, not by how they finished the race...Case in point.
If i were to qualify toward the bottom of the pack (common)..and i win the 1st and 2nd round races but go out in the 3rd (out of 4...this is a true story)
The final points assigned to me still rank me where i qualified, not where i actually finished.
If that's so, then unless your good enough to finish in the top four, your actual rankings are determined completely in how you do in your first couple runs...not by how you do in the actual competition itself.
Is that really how it's set up?.....I've gone thru it several time with several different races and that's what i keep coming up with.
thanks

[Marty Schaub]

Chris,

I don't have a clue on this, I just wanted to know if your gonna come to Marion's?

[Christopher Bara]

heh heh.....at this point it's on my "wish list"
Airfare including taxes 231.00
airport parking..............20.00 if i split it with Greg
3 day car rental.............45.00 if i split it with Greg
2 nights hotel................80.00 ditto
entry fee........................60.00
incidentals (food/beer)...60.00

That's a 500.00 weekend......once month before my wifee's big 4-0......it might not be in the cards until 2006....

which is really a bummer....look at that friggin line up already....

(i wouldnt be surprised to see Fadell come solo though.....the man's on a mission)

[Robert Sydia]

Chris:

Come anyway - it is only her 40th birthday, she will get over it.

Remember you still have her 41st to celebrate, it really doesn't matter that much does it.

Just kidding - married guy her with wife's 40th coming up next year.

I always ask early and be sure you do something "special" for her birthday.

All the best and have a good weekend

Rob

[Marty Schaub]

Chris,

Just sell the Eurofighter to Tucker and you have both bases covered.

I ran Statesville NC through Travelocity and got hotel hits from 30 - 70 per night double occupancy. They are all just a few miles from Saturday's race.

[Christopher Bara]

After seeing Wes T's new Turner, i doubt he has much dough left either....

but that's ok...

I have all winter to say "Man, i sure wish i could have gone to that NC race...."

and walla

next year i'll have the free ticket

(Little trick so expertly executed by my female counterpart )

[Hans Koraeus]

Chris,

Actually there was nothing written in the rules about this. Must have forgot. Now I have added it and this is how it works...

If running head to head then racers ending up on the same placement will be sorted on their qualification results. Normally after a head to head race you will have...

one 1:st place
one 2:nd place
one 3:rd place
one 4:th place
four 5:th places
eight 9:th places
sixteen 17:th places

The organizer may very well keep this as official results but in the view of ranking points equal placements in head to head will be separated by qualifying placements.

This is done to have a point balance against events where there is no head to head. It would not be fair to give more points to the racers because they use the head to head format than if they use a single lane format. This would be the case if places 5-8 all got the point for a fifth place.

[Christopher Bara]

Good idea...Thanks Hans......actually, that would change the layout of race results a great deal...
Worst case scenario now works like this
in a 32 skater race
#1 faces #32 in the round of 32
#32 wins by upset and faces #16 in the round of 16
#32 wins and faces #8 in the round of 8
s/he loses so he never makes it into the final round of 4
However, he DID beat out two faster qualifiers before bowing out.

Currently, the way it's done, the #1 qualifier would be given points for a #5 finisher (behind the final four skaters).
the #32 qualifier would only be given points as a #32 qualifier despite pulling off two big upsets on probably the best skating day of his life
It's kind of confusing, but if you go thru it, it works out that way

Of course, this is an extreme example, but less extreme ones happen all the time....I found 3 of them in my measley standings alone and i havent raced much or placed well. To a top racer who enters allot of events, and to a newer racer who makes a big impact, it can make a large effect in the points

thanks again for looking into that Hans

[Hans Koraeus]

Chris, there are some misunderstandings in your example. This is how it would work...

#1 faces #32 in the round of 32
#32 wins by upset and faces #16 in the round of 16
#32 wins and faces #8 in the round of 8
s/he loses so he never makes it into the final round of 4
However, he DID beat out two faster qualifiers before bowing out.

Currently, the way it's done, the #1 qualifier would be among the 16 racers with a 17:th placement. Separated by qualification he would be the best of the last 16 places 17-32 and be given points for a #17 finish.
The #32 qualifier would be among the 4 racers with a 5:th placement. Separated by qualification he would be the last of the 4 places 5-8 and be given points for a #8 finish.

[Christopher Bara]

I would agree with that theory completely.....unfortunately, that's not the way it worked out in at least 3 of the races i've been in.
It pretty much went the way i had described. When i spoke out about it, i was always told "that's the way it is"....which to be honest....was complete bullshit...

[Hans Koraeus]

Red Clay Cup looks correct but St:louis and Chicago is impossible to figure out since I don't have the complete results with qual and eliminations (if there where any). For those I only have the final result placements.

[Christopher Bara]

Hans, i have to say, i'm incredibly impressed that you'd take the time out to even look over the issue!.....especially with a guy like me being a "middle of the B group" rookie

Here's Chicago:
http://c.novatny.home.mindspring.com/Ch ... otOut/2005 Results.xls

And unfortunately, the link to the St Louis race is gone.

The red clay race was a prime event with Gesmer on the laptop...no doubt that one was logged the way you suggested..

Thanks again for hearing me out

[Hans Koraeus]

Yes, you are right Chris. There are some mistakes in the Chicago results. I will fix it for the next ranking update Sep 30. You will move up from #10 to #8 in the head to head slalom discipline for example.

In the eyes of the ranking everybody is equally important. If you are top 10 or over 100 it doesn't matter. Competing against your buddies is just as fun as competing towards the very top of the ranking. So who knows what a couple of points may be worth for a specific person.

Thanks for helping out.