[2005] Region West Atlantic: USA East

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:22 pm

Just a Slight correction Marion!

The Ottawa Sk8park/Sk8city - Claude & MB

Thanks to all the others sponsors. This is going to be a lot of FUN!

Mike Cividino · Post by **Mike Cividino** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:34 pm

Marty Schaub wrote:Sorry Civ,

I should have had more coffee. I went back and found it was Harms I was thinking about not you. Damn, now I owe a bottemless pit of a Canadian some beers......

BUT, the statement still stands, you are no mid-pack racer in Open, that WAS a snow job....

bottomless?....i might make you eat those words...or drink em....

Marion Karr · Post by **Marion Karr** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:56 pm

Claude Regnier wrote:Just a Slight correction Marion!

The Ottawa Sk8park/Sk8city - Claude & MB

Thanks to all the others sponsors. This is going to be a lot of FUN!

I got it changed...I was doing that off the top of my head and well, you know I am challenged in that regard!

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:19 pm

Well considering you remove your hair from the Top of your head by choice and I don't you can still carry quite a bit up there, EH!

I just want to make sure The Sk8Park and MB get their just do!

Eddy Martinez · Post by **Eddy Martinez** » Fri Oct 28, 2005 6:40 pm

Good Luck with the Race Marion. I am bumbed that I can not make it. Started or attempted to skate last week. The knee is crap, but I posted a 10:44 sec on my Cyber Slalom and was 2 seconds off Gumbys best time when we skated our hill. Here is hoping I can make it to your race next year. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws. To my Canadian Bros " How's it going EH."

Keith Hollien · Post by **Keith Hollien** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:12 am

Corky,
I understand what you have said about the status of NC Dixie Cup, but I think it should get prime status.
No matter what you decide I want to thank you for all of your hard work on the rankings.

Keith, Teams Radikal & Pocket Pistols & Oust.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:19 am

It seems like you think that I can just decide whatever I want and then it's ok. I don't see it like this. I don't stand over the rules. This is the first time there has been so much "protests" about this. I have been quite hard with many other events as well. I don't know if this case is special in any way. Just look at the Zurich race recently (a Basic Status)...

1 Luca Giammarco
2 Ramon Königshausen
3 Christoph Baumann
4 Chris Hart
5 Aki "Von Glasow"
6 Dhyan Fischer
7 Balthasar Weber
8 Marcel Hug

If everybody has to follow the rules except me I will put myself in a very difficult situation. If there is anything wrong with the current rules then let's change them. I don't have the power to do what you ask of me. It's not that I don't want to give you the status. Or that you don't deserve it. It's just not correct. At least with the current rules. Of course you can allow to stretch the rules in some cases but is this such a case?

Have a look at the European region forum. There is already big discussions about next years schedule with statuses and who should have the World Championships.

The idea behind the statuses is to set them in a neautral way before you are colored by who is coming and so on. It should not be that suddenly because Luca decides to go or not to go to a race that the event status should change.
Now first you set status. Then racers decide if they want to come. Not the other way around. Ask yourself, if Jason Mitchell and Chris Barker wouldn't have come, would we still have had the same discussion?

Marion Karr · Post by **Marion Karr** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:37 am

Corky, Thanks for the response. I understand that the rules are structured the way they are and that has to be followed in order to make it fair to all involved. The one question you asked regarding "is the circumstances special" in relationship to the Dixie Cup is a good one. My answer to that is Yes. I would say that due to the fact that we are losing a Prime Status race in this Region with the absence of the WV race makes it so. I am not familiar with the situation regarding Zurich but my question would be this: Was the Zurich race one that occured in a relatively same time period as another Prime race that was cancelled for whatever reason? In other words, did the racers who attended Zurich miss out on a Prime points opportunity within a month of that race being held because the Prime race was cancelled? Just food for thought, especially for the future.
Here is my point, provisions should be made in the rules (and I am not talking about this year, for next and the following) that allows a race status to be changed within a particular region if there is a higher ranking race that was originally scheduled in that region cancelled. This would protect the racers in that region of the world from losing the opportunity to race at that level. Simply, if a region loses a higher rank race due to cancellation or other reasons, then another race organization should have the opportunity to have that higher status awarded to them. This could be called the "Special Circumstance Rule" and would be in the best interest of all racers and would not be detrimental to any.

I totally respect your position on enforcement of the rules and like Keith appreciate what you do for this sport.
Please accept my request to designate the 2nd Annual Downhillbillies Dixie Cup, to be held the first weekend in November of 2006 (or close to that date) as a Prime Event for 2006 unless Dave Gale is able to put together his race next year. As I said earlier, Dave is not only a friend but a Charter Member of the DHB and I will not do anything to surplant his race's position. Please let me know what I need to do to secure this status for the DHB organization for next year.

Joe Iacovelli · Post by **Joe Iacovelli** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:40 am

Would the story be different if Dave Gale had announced that he was "moving" his race instead of canceling it?

Joe

Marion Karr · Post by **Marion Karr** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:47 am

Joe Iacovelli wrote:Would the story be different if Dave Gale had announced that he was "moving" his race instead of canceling it?

Joe

Hey, that's a great idea! The 1st Annual Downhillbillies Dixie Cup is actually the Mountain State race just in a different state....DAve G is DHB. This is a DHB event. Therefore........

(just joking Corky)

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:36 am

Corky, maybe you should move to the US and become a politician. Of course you can change the status of the race, you're the one who enters the points.

It would be not adding another prime status race, it would just be taking the place of the WV prime status.

If this race is not awarded prime status, it will be very dis-heartning.

Once again, I ask who else has objected to making this a prime status race? I haven't seen any objections here, are you receiving emails objecting to the proposed change?

I join Marion and Keith in their praise of all that you do for the sport.

Eddy Martinez · Post by **Eddy Martinez** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:51 am

Count The Texas Outlaws in as well. Let NC take the place of WV on the point standings. From what I understand have read, and have heard from fellow competitors Dave Gale did his best to promote our sport, he invested his time, heart and soul into his race, even if it was raining, the race went on. Marion has chosen to take on the task of putting a race together. He is STOKED to be doing this. Being a promoter is not an easy ordeal, but you do it anyway. Mainly because it brings a smile to your face at the end of the race when the winner is annouced and lifts up the trophy. Anything is possible. Corky GO FOR IT BRO. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

Christopher Bara · Post by **Christopher Bara** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:10 am

I think i'm a bit confused here. Marion had talked about holding a race for a while, but it wasnt "serious talk" until Dave Gale made it clear that the West Virginia race wasnt going to happen. At that time, Marion stepped up and said he'd hold it in North Carolina...this script can all be found somewhere on SS.com or NCDSA.
Since West Virginia and North Carolina are both in the smokey mountains, i thought the DHB race became the mountain-state-slalom-series race (the true name of Gales race)...
There's only one race in the smokey's each year...that race is always at the tail end of the season...Isnt Marions race being considered the MSSS championship?......we're all looking at it that way...
Smokey mtns.....big talent pool....end of the season.....Fayetteville or Statesville....it's still the same spirit....

Lastly, since the WV race was cancelled a while back, and many of us can only afford to do marginal traveling, not replacing the WV race with a similar venue kinda gives us right-coasters the short end of the stick, no?

Chris Favero · Post by **Chris Favero** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:28 am

let me say that corky is awesome for doing the rankings in the first place,but situations like this show how much we need to step up the need for a better system.we went for prime in chicago this year,but were denied because prime was filled in the east region(this included MSSS).its cool,its growing,we need to grow with it.cf

Mike Cividino · Post by **Mike Cividino** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:32 am

perhaps the americans can decide their own stauses, let europeans do their own, and we determine our own. Just a though. Prime in NC!!

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:51 am

Marion,

You are on the right track. Let's come up with some clever rules of how to handle situations like this and even worse when an event rains out. With the current rules it's hard having time to organize or propose a new event within the time limits. At least for races towards the end of the season. I'm sure something good can come out of this. With the current rules the disaster will come sooner or later when a whole Main or Major event is cancelled by rain for example. That's why it's now important to have an indoor backup for big races.

I'm sure we can figure something out for 2006. It's rare that events get cancelled or that results is impossible to register. But it does happen and will happen. So let's have a set of rules ready for those situations.

Mike,

It's already set up like that. It's up to each region to set their own statuses. I'm only there to help out with the rules and to make sure it happens. But it's all in your hands basically. To make the NC race Prime for 2006, or Main. It's up to you. I have no saying in that.

Jeff Goad · Post by **Jeff Goad** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:02 pm

so hansolo what do i need to do next year that i did not do this year to get my race something else than a basic?

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:53 pm

"That's why it's now important to have an indoor backup for big races. "

Does this mean that if a prime or main race is moved indoors it would still retain it's status and have the same points awarded? Please tell me you're not serious.

Back to the NC race, Corky why won't you answer a simple question...

Is anyone objecting to having this race declared a prime?

Mike Cividino · Post by **Mike Cividino** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 2:59 pm

corky is.

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:16 pm

It's a week before the race.

If a couple extra points on Corky's ranking system means that much to you then why did'nt you bring it up sooner?

Kevin M. Gamble · Post by **Kevin M. Gamble** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:24 pm

I asked the question in this forum in August:

24 Aug 2005 11:28 Statesville, Winston-Salem November races

Since the MSSS '05 is on hold, could this race be considered "prime"?

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 5:30 pm

Troy,

Man, you're on to me. I currently rank about 423rd.

It's not about my points. It's about the east coast not having a "prime" race. You guys and gals have a very active slalom scene and the DHB's have put together this fine event. Yet, it is not allowable to change/bend the rules to allow this race to take the place of the WV race.

Troy Smart · Post by **Troy Smart** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 6:17 pm

Nothing personal and no need for sarcasm.
I'm merely pointing out the obvious.
I would like it to be a Prime race but I also think it's a bit late for that now.

Then again maybe not. I'm sure it's no big deal to do that, but I'm also sure that there would be quite a bit of whining if it happened.

All avoidable.

Christopher Bara · Post by **Christopher Bara** » Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:40 pm

I was originally thinking along the same lines as Troy..."F* it, who cares, lets race"...
especially since i'm not in a points hunt and really dont give it much thought

but...

The WV race was cancelled long ago. The east has nothing to designate as a "prime" race (i dont think, what was Athens?) This race replaces WV demographically, geographically, and uhh...calender-ographically

And Jack is correct. The sport is growing quickly east of the Miss......this race may become our Hood River

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 3:36 am

Jack,
Yes to your answer. But even if there were none it doesn't mean there are people thinking it. I understand if people don't want to do that openly. It would not be seen as very nice even though correct. If I would have said "yes take the Prime status, why not". I'm sure others would start argue the other way around. So what I say doesn't mean a thing. I will take the punch either way. Luckily I'm a good blocker since I don't think it's me saying no, it's the rules.

Kevin,
You are quite right. You were on the right track alright but it seems nobody cared at the time, except you. I had never seen that before since it is not a topic I had followed. I was very close to balance over to give it a Prime when I read it. Even though it was the wrong topic (it should have been in this topic). But as I said, some bending is ok. But then I read on and found this post. Apparently Dave Gales event was not officially dead as one can think reading your post.

Marion Karr 2005-9-15 15:57 wrote: I emailed Corky and we can not get the Prime status that some had suggested we ask for. Frankly, being that this is our very first race promotion I think staying Basic is the right way to go...and out of friendship and respect for Dave Gale who is core DHB and has been so helpful, we should do everything we can to help him put on a race if possible so that Prime race would be available on the East Coast.

After that I balanced over to my old stand point again. I agree with Troy that if one care so much about that Prime status one should have stood up for Kevins line early on and it would have been a go go. Unfortunately since it was not in this topic I couldn't see it and perhaps many others. And because the other Prime event was not cancelled officially it didn't help either. For me it was still on and that's why I said to Marion he could not have it since it was already occupied. But now we know better. It's always easier when you have the result in your hand.

In the end you are responsible for your own region. It should have been you to manage that internal quiz. It's the very core in this system to make the stauses offical here so that everybody can see it and plan ahead. If you think World Ranking Statuses are important then the rules are too. If you don't care about the statuses then you do not have to care about the rules either.

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:27 am

Corky,

Should I venture a guess where the "objections" are coming from? Or will you be so kind as to tell us. No need to mention names, just a broad geographical region will do.

I have a hunch that if Barker, Michell and Hollien were not coming to the NC race, you would have not received any objections...just a guess.

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:39 pm

I said it once and I'll say it again, Kind of!

Corky, since the system is still in it's infancy and we want it to be strong there is no reason that the unused status could not be awarded to NC.

Regardless of the date of actual NCDSA registration or not. It was talked about for several months and most people had it on their event calendars since early August. It's not like a lot of people are really able to make a Slalom race in Novemeber anyway. Adding a Prime event in December is Bogus whether or not it is dated before the cut-off.Quote:
Europe could very well have missed out on two if not Stockholm would have taken advantage of the situation and organized an indoor event in December.

Let's get real here. The rules are there to show some degree of organisation. Bending them when there are legitimate reasons to can only benefit the entire scene. Most peoples season ends at different periods as the weather permits. Why don't we drop all the points earned for any races that were'nt completed in their entirety as set out in the schedule of events. We want to reward the racers. Why don't we force all organisers to have the contest registration held on one site?

Well we also need to award the organisers for a job well done. Are there any Europeans that would have come over for the race had it been announced earlier? They couldn't make Morro Bay. The World Champioships of 2005, remember? What about dropping the status of the European Champioships of 2006 since it was announced later then the 3rd Annual Dovercourt Open on the same date and ours will again be a Prime status event.

Until we have a full slate of events fighting for all the big points i think they should be awarded as merited.

It Doesn't matter whos is going? It's an event! A big one as it turns out! Cut thecrap. There is no way it should not be allowed to replace the West Virginia race. Duh! Umless Dave Gale is objecting and we know that ain't happening,EH!

Chris Favero · Post by **Chris Favero** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:55 pm

i concur with jack and claude.the sport is bigger than any person or rule.if it is up to us,and the responsiblity is up to us(as corky stated)than i propose we take the risk of irrevocably damaging the "rules" and award DHB/NC race prime status.cf
Can i get any one from the east region to second the motion?

Mike Cividino · Post by **Mike Cividino** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:54 pm

fully supported over here Chris. But Im Canadian.

Marty Schaub · Post by **Marty Schaub** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:43 pm

Aye second the motion, and I am not Canadian.

Any non-european objectors? (chirp...chirp....chirp....)

So?

Christopher Bara · Post by **Christopher Bara** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:17 pm

top ranked skaters who are not attending the race, and who are really into the points system, will object...though not likely in this forum...I think that's what Jack is getting at...

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Tue Nov 01, 2005 10:17 pm

OK,

Here's the way I see it:

1. Corky has put a tremendous amount of work into his World Ranking system. Personally, I think it works well.

2. There are RULES regarding how a race is positioned.

3. The DHB Dixie Cup was scheduled late but the organizers have excelled in putting together a tremendous event.

4. The Mountain State Slalom Skate was CANCELED.

So, in summation, is there a rule on the books regarding how to handle a Region's race status if an established event is CANCELED? If there is a rule, does it apply to this particular situation and if there is no rule, why can't the situation be handled in a manner that benefits the racers participating in the event?

In reading everything I have found regarding the World Ranking System, my conclusion is that existing rules are being used to determine the status of a completely unforeseen circumstance.

I'm still not going to argue with Corky about how things should be or not be, but I will have to chime in on this whole discussion with one observation:

There is NO detriment in awarding the MSSS' CANCELED PRIME STATUS to an alternative event such as the DHB's Dixie Cup.

Anyway, that's the way I see it.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:10 am

The rule is quite simple. A Prime status should be officially announced in this World Ranking Forum no later than 2 month before the event.

In the Rules section at www.slalomranking.com there are some topics made specifically to help event organizers. This is what is says:

2. Getting a WR status for the event
An event counted into the world ranking will always have a World Ranking competition status (See Rules/Definitions/World Ranking Competition Statuses). These statuses should be set in advance. If you are aiming for the higher statuses like Major, Main or Prime you should lobby and work for your cause in good time in the World Ranking Forum (See also Rules/Definitions/Setting Region Competition Statuses). There are time limits and possible discussions to be aware of. The time limits are there because they may attract more skaters from the outside regions and requires more planning in advance for travel and taking time off.

It has nothing to do with weather a prior competition has been cancelled or not. Neither of how much work you put into the event or who is coming to the event in the end. And it's not a "completely unforeseen circumstance". It's just gets to be very hard rules for this circumstances.

For now a cancelled event means no points to the world ranking. The status is not lost if the whole event is cancelled. You can use it again for another event. But the same rules count for that other event as well concerning time limits etc.

I agree we could come up with a better and more forgiving way to handle situations of this kind. I will start that discussion with a proposal in the rules forum soon. But for now the current rules are the ones we have to live with.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:21 am

Hans Koraeus wrote: - 27 Oct 2005 22:52 - The NC race was officially announced a little bit short of the 2 month limit. That you could have been forgiving with.

Hans Koraeus wrote: - 02 Nov 2005 00:10 - For now a cancelled event means no points to the world ranking. The status is not lost if the whole event is cancelled. You can use it again for another event. But the same rules count for that other event as well concerning time limits etc.

Well, it's now going in circles, so there's no need to continue.

Chris Favero · Post by **Chris Favero** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:15 am

why not use this as the time to come up with a more forgiving way for us to deal with this.Does anyone not attending this race really care?cf

Mike Cividino · Post by **Mike Cividino** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:33 am

said it before and ill say it again...Corky. Its in his hands and hes just being difficult.

Mike Cividino · Post by **Mike Cividino** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 7:21 am

Hans Koraeus wrote: Eddy, I could make an exception with the "Time Advance Rule" for your Texas competition since you did post it quite early and that you didn't know about that rule until January and that you soon after that published the date. But... quickly write a post in the "West Atlantic: USA West" topic and lobby for your event the best you can and why you think it is worth that Prime status. If there are no protests or even some positive remarks you might have your Prime. And if you think you can get 8 pros coming down to your competition it would be a great point in your favor (and for World Ranking points as well).

so why the change now? you seemed more compassionate then. Different race, similar situation.

Eddy Martinez · Post by **Eddy Martinez** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:52 am

It was a different race. It was our second attempt. This year The Texas Slalom Sizzler will be our third race. Last weekend in Feb. We are shooting for Central Texas, Conroe, Austin area. Easier for more skaters to get to. We have been blessed to have had Ricky Byrd and Keith Hollien come down to the sticks to race with us . If anything else they lit a fire, the slalom stoke was ignited. December 11th we are gathering in Austin to have an Outlaw session and also to welcome some more members to our Team The Texas Outlaws. I am so stoked that slalom is catching on in this part of the country. We had to follow the rules

BUMMER. This year we plan to announce the race by December, have insurance, participants, lots of cones, starting ramps, timing system, coneheads, spectators, sponsors, prizes, The Texas Cup, shirts. LONG LIVE GRASSROOTS SLALOM. Corky thanks for the time you invest in the Ranking System. NC wish I could be there. Your Amigo Eddy Texas Outlaws.

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:35 pm

Absolutely Unbelievable!

Your arm must be getting twisted mighty hard Corky.

Your refusal to bend on this subject is very similar to your unwillingness to consider changing how you award points in dual racing.

For those of you who don't know how this is currently handled, finishers 1-4 are awarded points on their final placings. Racers 5th and below are awarded points based on their "qualifying" times. How can a racer that hasn't defeated anyone else in an elimination round be awarded more points than another racer elminated in the same round?

Racers elminated in the round of 8 should get equal 5th points.
Racers elminated in the round of 16 should get equal 9th points.
Racers elminated in the round of 32 should get equal 17th points.

I have went round and round with Corky on this matter and he refuses to budge. I guess like making the NC race "prime", it just makes too much sense.

The rankings system is Corky's deal, and he can manage it as he wishes. The NC situation has a slight odor of protectionism.

Jadranko Radovanovic · Post by **Jadranko Radovanovic** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:14 pm

What is wrong on the points ?

all the Racers eliminated 8, get's there placement from their qualifying time. There can't be a system which gives the same points to more than one racer.

At the qualifying it's the time to make a fast time.
The H2H is a bit tactical, you needn't to give 100% when you race as 1st against the 16th.

For the rules of the Worldranking.

I organiced the Event in Zurich. There were two more prime statuses left for Europe. We announced the Event more than a half year before. But no one talked or did somthing. When we started to promote the race we were a bit too late for the Prime. There were a lot of Top Racers there, but it was only a Basic Status.

There are rule's and the rules should be adhered to.

/J-Rad

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 10:51 pm

Jad,

Every other sport that I am aware of, that uses a head to head format, awards points in the manner I posted above. So there are systems that gives the same points to more than one racer.

Yes, the qualifying rounds are the time to make a fast "qualifying" time, however, that's all it is, a qualifying time.

You wrote: "The H2H is a bit tactical, you needn't to give 100% when you race as 1st against the 16th."

Yes that is true, but it has no bearing in what I'm proposing. We are not using times from the head to head to place racers who are eliminated.

If you and I are both eliminated in the same round, why should I place ahead of you based on my qualifying time? We are racing head to head, we are not racing for time at this point.

I also feel that in H2H racing only the racers who qualify for the finals should receive points.

As for NC, the race that was supposed to be a prime event was cancelled. The NC race is on par with the the cancelled race. The NC race could easily be awarded prime status.

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:05 am

J-Rad, maybe you should have asked a little sooner or come over to America for support.

There are fewer events here with high status for us to gain points from. Why should we lose a prime race points if there is a replacement event. especially if it is in the same region.

Some of the rules need to be modified and exceptions added. I really don't care. I've already personally be screwed with points by the rules.

Jack, maybe the times from H2H should start to be used tomove you up. It would add to the head games exitment. Imagine the guy in 16th or 32nd moving up an bracket if a faster qualifier falters.

Let's put the racing back into the racing, EH!

Ya, Ya, I know!!!!!!!!!!

C-ya'll soon........................

Rick Stanziale · Post by **Rick Stanziale** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:59 am

....and we still wonder why slalom isn't popular among skateboarders

y'all have fun in Statesville, my wife has to be out of town this weekend and my kids are recovering from the first virus of the school year so no points for me..........

somebody (Marty) stop by JR Cigars and tell Lou I said hello

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:11 am

When was it officially announced that the WV race was cancelled?

Wesley,
If you cut and paste small parts of texts you loose the big picture. That's why you are going in circles.

Unforgiving,
Yes rules tend to be that way.

Unwillingness,
I don't want to set myself over the rules. It has nothing to do with unwillingness. In that case I would not have put all this time trying to dig into this problem and trying to find a loophole big enough to use for you. Instead of trying to blame me for this situation in the last minute you could thank those (including me) who made sure you were getting your 2 Mains and Primes ready in time for you at all.

Mike Cividino · Post by **Mike Cividino** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:21 am

but seriously, who gets hurt if we get a prime? The euro`s? no they have plenty of races, more than there are big points for, they are also all within driving distance basically.

North America is HUGE!!!!!!!!! it takes more time and $$ for us to attend races, that and the fact that we dont have as many races or chances for points.

I know that I might as well yeall this to a brick wall, but what the hell.

give us a break.

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:43 am

Corky, you have been thanked numerous times by many people (including me) for all your hard work on the rating system.

There is no problem here. You don't need a loophole. All you need to do is announce that the NC race is a prime event, it's your deal no matter which way you want to spin it.

The only two people objecting to the status change are from Europe...

Coincedence?

Chris Favero · Post by **Chris Favero** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:16 am

civ,you are right.you could stick all of europe into the atlantic east region.you could stick all of the U.S. into 1/2 of canada,you could stick......you get the picture.cf

Donald Campbell · Post by **Donald Campbell** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:33 am

i just commented on the european races 2006 thread regarding your race.read it it's interesting,hope you understand and like the take on your problem-just adapt my thoughts.
thanks and good luck for the weekend
don

Pat Chewning · Post by **Pat Chewning** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:45 am

It doesn't have to be all Prime or all Basic. This is a case where the rules don't meet the needs of the skaters, so let's make a new rule:

Rule 103.4.5 subsection D, paragraph F, ammended: If an event is cancelled, the contest organizers within that event's region may make a proposal to substitute another event. If the proposal occurs before the advance-notice deadline, then the full status of the cancelled event can be transferred to the substitute event. If the proposal falls after the advance-notice deadline, then the substitute event can obtain an event status (and proportion of ranking points) 1/2 way between the cancelled event and the substitute event.

If this contest were a Prime event you could get 1.5 times as many points as if it were a Basic event. I propose that this contest get 1.25 times the Basic event points as a compromise about 1/2 way between Prime and Basic. Call it "Primarily Basic" or "Basically Prime" or something else.

This might be a reasonable compromise between the strict rule-followers and the "let's do what's reasonable"crowd.

OK?

-- Pat

Marion Karr · Post by **Marion Karr** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:14 am

Pat,
That sounds well thought out.........
As for Donald Campbell, all I have to say is he big supporter of the DHB and is a sponsor of the Dixie Cup. I definitely support his efforts in doing a Worlds in Europe.

66: Dude, Im crushed. Man you will be missed but I hope your family gets feeling better and everything relaxes a bit for you...last time we talked you sounded stressed brother...and I know what stress is. There is a great deal of stress trying to live up to the pre race hype this thread along with other postings and muses has blown the Dixie Cup up to be! You will be missed.

Jack, Thanks for working hard for the skaters in this fight.

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Proposal to break the deadlock.