[2004] World rankings: Overall

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 3:49 am

Trying to move over discussion to the rules topic.

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:48 am

One thing that people should realize is that I am not ranked 3rd in the world in slalom. Hans ahs stated clearly that it is the UNoffical ranking - or inoffical whatever.

He is just trying to start a ranking system that lasts for more than a single season.

Wahl talks about starting from Zero every season. Well that would be a seasonal ranking. Almost like a series ranking. But then think of how much weight teh Worlds would have on that particular ranking. If by a fluke you did well at a single World Championship and then poorly in others...you would do well for that particular year and then drop off the radar.

This ranking is looking for more "career consistentcy" than that of a single season.

As for being democratic- we should find a way to elect a few representives to reason this out. And for that matter future questions on rules and such.

Perhaps a representive from each skating region...We should all think about this more. A list of questions could be debated- and finally we could vote.

One interesting thing that was relayed to me...someone told me that Avalon Sales in France exceeded the sales from within the entire USA. To me that is good news (is it true Dan?- It certainly surprised me.), as the gear spreads competition should intensify.

Bill I have nothing to do with the world ranking- I, like yourself, am making suggestions as to what I think makes sense. I wouldn't tackle that workload with a ten foot pole.
I do think some of Hans structure in the ranking will encourage some California racers to travel to at one race outside of their home base. Reasonably speaking...I don't think this is out of the question for the top ten fastest racers from California (as many have already traveled). East Coast racers will have to take at least two trips. Some will have to travel even more (like Kenny Mollica)- or grow their local scene and host a contest there. Kenny slaloms alone.

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:58 am

John Gilmour wrote:One interesting thing that was relayed to me...someone told me that Avalon Sales in France exceeded the sales from within the entire USA. To me that is good news (is it true Dan?- It certainly surprised me.), as the gear spreads competition should intensify.
[...]
I do think some of Hans structure in the ranking will encourage some California racers to travel to at one race outside of their home base. Reasonably speaking...I don't think this is out of the question for the top ten fastest racers from California (as many have already traveled). East Coast racers will have to take at least two trips. Some will have to travel even more (like Kenny Mollica)- or grow their local scene and host a contest there. Kenny slaloms alone.

This is totally off topic but i'm so happy you bring this: if you could have come to the PSWC this year (we did miss you and Kenny) you would have seen that crowd of ams ! ... and you know what that spot is like... not for beginners like me. Since we are mainly converting DH racers and generally skilled skaters, these young people improve very quickly, and Chris Hart does the same kind of job in Switzerland.

Bill Wahl, whatever you have to say, if you go calling Corky funny names i will work on yours, i think there is a huge potential...
As a matter of fact it is hard to understand if you exactly dislike the fact that there is top riders out of California, or either doubt there is...
If it was the second option, it might be wise from you to question those who have actually fought against euro racers, and ask them if they have found it so easy to beat Elena or Luca, or even Nastassia, Chris Hart, Maurus, or even Airflow team teenager Manuel Schaub... As a matter of fact, it might very well be their inner feeling that you are making yourself ridiculous in their name.

Bill Wahl · Post by **Bill Wahl** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:10 pm

etienne de bary....

don't waste your time or effort...you have missed the point completely. Corky has decided to rank all the world slalom racers without starting an organization, communicating and building a system with integrity and accuracy. He has looked to only a few skaters for some advise and annoyed the whole slalom world by printing the list in a publication. Why bother printing a ranking list if it isn't correct? Corky already admits it is a rough draft or whatever.....I am entitled to articulate however and whatever I like. If it displeases you, then you have the right to do or say what you like as well. God Bless America for the right to free speech. Because there is no doubt in my mind you have a set of roller blades in your closet next to some spandex pants and a pink ribbon for your girly hair faggot...

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 2:33 pm

Is this Arab again, or have we got another psycho ?
We are not interested in your suburban redneck hairstyles, pants size and sexual behaviors preferences, mister, whatever your religious, sexual, racial fantasies. This is a moderated international forum, there is a lot of messy North Californian forums for people like you elsewhere.

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:31 pm

etienne de Bary wrote:Is this Arab again, or have we got another psycho ?

Etienne,

This is neither insulting nor provocative. Just rather pathetic.

By the by, since this is a "moderated international forum," then maybe we can see in the near future some international participants footing the bill? I see month after month after month one American after another supporting this website with their wallets. (Vlad Popv, Howard Gordon, Eric Groff, Joe Iacovelli and Rick Stanziale immediately come to mind.)

When can we expect to see a few international participants help pay the rent so Jani and Adam can continue to do their good and edited work?

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 5:51 pm

I must digress. I do belive Octane Sports (Michael Stride) did pay for a month or two. Thank you, Mr. Stride.

But since England isn't considered part of the "international forum" or European slalom skating and is pretty much on its own, then I don't know whether or not to consider Michael's contribution as really being "international?"

After all, as we all know, "international" means whoever etienne du bary recognizes as someone who agrees with his rather narrow world view.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 2:51 am

This topic is intended for ranking comments like "Why is Mr X before me in the ranking?", "How is my point calculated?", "The ranking sucks!" and other ranking related subjects.

Please feel free to have strong opinions on the ranking here but for personal issues I propose the Dark side of the cone. It has been surprisingly quiet for a while by the way. Maybe it became all peace and love over there...

Etienne de Bary · Post by **Etienne de Bary** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:41 pm

Hans Koraeus wrote:Please feel free to have strong opinions on the ranking here but for personal issues I propose the Dark side of the cone.

Maybe we should start a new "low comments & judgements about people you know nothing about" topic instead ?

Chris Barker · Post by **Chris Barker** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:31 pm

I wouldn't have known about these funky ratings, nor would anyone be arguing about them, if it wasn't put in SLALOM! magazine. That's the real problem. I get the feeling it was all invented in a dark room and published in a sneaky way. Some people in the top 30 like Jani, Stride, Parsons, and Ohm will like their padded positions. Other top pros like Fluitt, Wahl, Sherman, O'Shei, and Peters would be wondering how they are ranked behind myself, Wallstreet Brewington, and Stanziale, at positions 31-33.

I'm all for encouraging travel, with or without points. Wahl and Fluitt make good points, maybe you should work through the emotions and see the wisdom.

Kosick vs Noah Example? Maybe their order is pretty close. Noah beat Kosick in both TS and GS at last WLAC I attended. I beat Kosick in GS and finished right behind him in TS. I think we also split in my previous WLAC/JPL adventure. So I think Noah, Kosick, and myself will ride pretty close at any race we all attend and the rankings have us all within 16 spots of each other.

What sucks is that Fluitt won the TS, but somehow Corky decided that race wasn't "good enough" for World Ranking Points. However, the earlier race I attended did count for a while. I think I got some points for that originally and then you guys changed your system and I dropped out of the top-30. So it didn't do any good rankings-wise for Fluitt, Noah, Smith, and myself to travel to JPL/WLAC for that race. Sure was a lot of fun though.

What still stinks is how the ranking points and race classifications were dealt out afterwards. DaFarm got big points, same as Breck I believe. Yet that was a single-lane push-start race that was actually closed off to most outsiders. Gorman had 2-3 JPL single lane events, with top riders present. Did any of those count for points? What about the whole WLAC series? How many of those counted and how did you decide which ones? I believe most of those races had a field at least as strong as DaFarm.

As a top open racer, the reason I traveled to LA for those events was to get an idea of how I would stack up against some of the nation's best riders. I am looking forward to Hood where the field includes Mollica, Carrasco, TK, Dong, Noah, Fluitt all in a *single* group. Heck, I might get a chance at knocking off the guy that makes my trucks. It would be nice if some of the SoCal boys would travel, but looks like it will just be the Brown Bomber carrying the flag. How are the points going to be broken up there Corky?

I asked you about Breck, but you don't have a good idea on that one either. The whole idea is to have the highest competition levels. Maybe Bert (Kosick) will make it out again. Either way, he will have to earn a top-16 bracket spot since that will all be based on qualifying times each day.

I think LaCosta and Worlds are the only races in the USA this year where a rider will have to declare Pro or Open. How is that going to work?

Anyway, since you decided to publish this whole points system in a world-wide slalom magazine before all the bugs/arguments were worked out, you should expect to have pissed some people off. Nobody would care except they are now in SLALOM! magazine, in fact right there on the cover it says "World Rankings" but should say "SlalomSkateboarder.Com World Rankings"

Jeff Goad · Post by **Jeff Goad** » Mon Jun 28, 2004 11:57 pm

ya, what about chicago and st louis? LOL

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Tue Jun 29, 2004 10:27 am

CB,

I can't say I am sure as to why Hans chose WLAC races to be worth fewer points than 'da farm. IMHO I think it is likely that he took a few things into account.

I've raced both at WLAC and the farm. They differ in a few ways, from my point of view. WLAC as a venue suffers from lesser quality pavement- and for TS I would call the surface marginal. The GS requires a good skill level as the hill is crowned and also rough and steep. So in terms of venue quality likely the farm wins out. For TS at the farm you can set a course where skilled racers can separate out from the pack with much higher speeds and very high technical difficulty at the farm. At WLAC you can set a TS course that is difficult in that the surface will make it harder to make, but the poor surface quality limits the technical course setting. In GS, WLAC is certainly more "Hairball" mostly due to the surface and plunging crowned pitch, but the speeds for top racers are comparable for well set GS courses for both the farm and WLAC. Likely there are better contests on the West Coast in terms of venue and attendance than WLAC so WLAC was not awarded as high status as other West coast comps. Awarding a higher status to a comp would hopefully increase attendance for that race in that region...and you wouldn't want to push even more skaters to a venue that was not as good as another one. Don't get me wrong- I personally enjoyed WLAC myself very much (Like the 3 hills in one place aspect a lot) , but I would rather skate in better California venues until it gets a repaving ( a repaved WLAC would greatly increase its appeal for everyone- you could have a sick tech ts on the buttboard hill- and even wilder GS courses on the GS hill). Looking at the skill level in both WLAC and the farm- I think many riders would be surprised at the Skill level of the racers at the farm 3. I knew I was. The GS race was difficult as it got very difficult to hold on as the speed increased and Dong and Noah and many others were riding extremely well that day. Kenny Mollica was not riding as well as he usually does and yet I think he was surprised not to Podium. I think if we had seen more West Coast racers show up that day- the results would likely have not shifted much due to high technical nature of the courses(as techTS is practiced more on the East Coast), and that the surface allowed for super high pumping speeds by many racers- certainly- it was the best I have ever seen the East Coast riders skate, spectators were amazed. This is reflected in large time spreads. As for single lane evnts- I don't think people missed the Dual racing much as the hill quaility allowed for some very high level racing. As for being a limited event, many events are limited...but I never heard TK to Tway turn away any top level riders. They just limited it so in case there were unforseen delays- all races would be able to be completed. So in that respect attendance was only limited for c-group racers. Duals racing will be at this years Farm race.

(Also in terms of ranking- if all races were single track, it might be easier to mix classes and get more definitive results than with duals)

I think awarding a contest a status depends somewhat on those Venue quality factors. There are only so many races that are given high status in each region with the ones in each region that are best attended with good venue and organization being awarded the most points.

Also to encourage travel, each region gets a certain number of high status competitions awarded to it.

To recognize the higher concentration of strong riders on the West Coast both in numbers and in some cases skill level, The West Coast gets more competition points awarded to it than any other region. The idea being that if the points allocated were INSTEAD exactly the same..... we wouldn't get the results we want to see. If two skaters with Exactly the same near top skill level were to race, one Predominantly on the West Coast and the other predominately on the East coast we would expect to see lower points earned by the West coast racer if there were more higher skilled racers than him competing for the same number of points as on the East Coast.

To try and balance this out- Hans awarded more points to California races. The idea being that two identical twins with each being on separate coasts skating separately most of the time- but perhaps meeting in the Majors- would score nearly identical.

The one place where this could have a problem is if there was one exceptionally strong West Coast racer that never lost a race he entered in his region. He would garner more points than his identical twin on the East Coast. Mostly because he would sweep 3 main and 3 prime events- not leaving any points for his breathren. Again only the top 8 race events would count, he would still tie his identical twin on the East Coast and the Major events they would meet and determine a winner. The other points left for other West Coast racers would be usurped by this racer (Which could be a strategy for him) making it harder to catch up. On the East Coast the racers would not have any top spots left either- but for their size talent pool this would be normal. A West Coaster sweeping all of his events would not allow another East Coaster to travel West to try and score mose more points.

AS we have several disciplines Super G, GS, TS, (cyber etc...) you may have more than just a few first place finishes available to fight over anyway. A race having all of the above events would offer a total of 4 first place finishes of which 2 per contest can go towards a ranking.

So at such a race you could Launch two racers with perfect points.

(I didn't propose this system, but the more I think through the possibilities- the better thought out it seems, I do think the Pro Am separation is needed and in regards to Open races I think it would be possible to look at the number of pros attending and perhaps weight it accordingly- or discount points for a certain percentage. We should look to other sports and see what they do in these instances, no need to reinvent the wheel.)

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Tue Jul 27, 2004 9:32 pm

It is up to each region to set the world ranking statuses on their own competitions. (See the region sections for this). They should know the best. The idea is to set the statuses in advance letting people have the chance to plan their season travels. Also to make sure top racers are sure to turn up for the most "important" world ranking races of the year.

In 2003 this was not possible. And only to some degree in 2004. But that is the goal. If some region want to change statuses for their 2003 competitions there is no problem with this from my part.

Putting the World Ranking Proposal in the Slalom! magazine was a way to reach out to more slalom skaters. This has apparently been the case and of course some will have strong opinions about it. That is normal, good and what it was intended for.

The world ranking is a mix of skill and attendence. So you can't just say that this guy is before me in the ranking but I'm better. It may very well be so, but the other guy maybe has been competing more and then naturally has more points. The question is how much attendence should play-in compared to skill. I have proposed a minimum of going to 4 competitions racing in at least 2 disciplines per year. I don't think this is too much to ask for for someone who wants to get good placements in a world ranking. Once this first basic goal is achieved the skill will show off much better. You should even be very careful comparing racers that has less than the 8 results if you only want to compare true world ranking slalom skills.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 12:39 am

For those who want to have a look at the World Ranking(s) before Morro Bay the possibility exists. With great programing help from Daniel Poweleit the World Ranking site has taken its first step. For now only the different rankings are shown but more specific results will soon be possible for each event and person in detail. There are still some bugs and incorrect data but in the whole it's ok.

Before looking at the current ranking (2004 up until September) I want to make you aware of the fact that it is a little bit out of balance. Skaters that has still not entered a Major this year (most of those going to Morro Bay) have placements that are lower than expected. But remind youself that they will have a big boost of points after this weekend at the Worlds. Hard to say exactly how much but the majority will have between 500 and 1200 points added.

What you still can make out of the current ranking is that the 2004 season first place is a battle between Maurus Strobel, Kenny Mollica and Richy Carrasco. They are all in Morro Bay to battle it out. Others who will make a great jump up the ranking towards the very top is Jason Mitchell, Gary Fluitt, Chris Barker, Keith Hollien, Steve Olson, Bobby Mandarino, Barrett Deck, Vlad Popov and Michael Dong. As fast as I get the results from Morro Bay I will calculate and publish the final standings.

Have a look at The World Rankings and remember: Lot's of people will have a big point boost the coming weekend in Morro Bay.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:23 am

Results starts coming in but nothing official yet. With what I have and some manual calculations this is what I get out of it so far.

Pro World Rank after some results from Super-G and Cyber
1 Maurus Strobel, SUI 4085 (unchanged)
2 Jason Mitchell, USA 3890 (6 up from 8:th!)
3 Chris Hart, SUI 3864 (1 down from 2:nd, point unchanged)
4 Kenny Mollica, USA 3820 (place unchanged)
5 Richy Carrasco, USA 3720 (1 up from 6:th)
6 Ramon Königshausen, SUI 3625 (3 down from 3:rd, point unchanged)
7 Luca Giammarco, USA 3375 (2 down from 5:th, point unchanged)
8 Gary Fluitt, USA 3343 (3 up from 11:th)
9 Marcus Seyffarth, SWE (1 up from 10:th)

The longer I go the more it get unsure depending on all points I don't have but from here on it's a fight between many...
Paul Price, Barret Deck, Steve Olson.

Great climbers
Tay Hunt up 35 (from 55 to around 20)
Chris Chaput up 25 (from 62 to around 37)
Mike Maysey up 22 (from 67 to around 45)
Michael Dong up 11 (from 31 to around 19)
Barret Deck up 8 (from 22 to around 14)

The more rumours I get the more accurate I can make it. All calculations are only temporary and calculated by hand. Waiting for complete result lists for official results.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:04 pm

After some more snippets of information from the Saturday slalom there are already some interesting conclusions.

Mollica have managed to take home a 3:rd and a 4:th place to take the lead with only 27 points. Not much but enough for the moment. For Strobel to come back he has to place 5:th or better on Sundays TS. Not impossible so it's not over yet. The other ones who could threathen Mollica if they win the TS is Carrasco, Mitchell or Fluitt. That's the only threats to Mollica as I can see.

Pro World Rank after some results from Super-G, Cyber and Special slalom
1 Kenny Mollica, USA 4112 (3 up from 4:th place)
2 Maurus Strobel, SUI 4085 (1 down from 1:st, point unchanged)
3 Chris Hart, SUI 3864 (1 down from 2:nd, point unchanged)
4 Richy Carrasco, USA 3820 (2 up from 6:th)
5 Jason Mitchell, USA 3778 (3 up from 8:th)
6 Gary Fluitt, USA 3771 (5 up from 11:th)
7 Ramon Königshausen, SUI 3625 (4 down from 3:rd, point unchanged)
8 Luca Giammarco, USA 3375 (3 down from 5:th, point unchanged)
9 Michael Dong, USA 3319 (22 up from 31)

Many points missing so no use trying to rank any longer. After the above we have a group with
- Barret Deck, USA
- Chris Barker, USA
- Steve Olson, USA
- Marcus Seyffarth, SWE
- Paul Price, GBR

Once again. The more rumours I get the more accurate I can make it. All calculations are only temporary and calculated by hand. Lot's of results still missing. Waiting for complete result lists for official results.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:28 am

Just saw a correct top 10 list of the cyber slalom. That made some changes in the temporary ranking above but the conclusion is the same. If any of Mollica, Strobel, Carrasco, Fluitt or Mitchell will be the winners of the TS it will take them to the very top of the ranking. If it will be enough for first place will then mostly depend of what place Mollica will have. If he is 2:nd or 3:rd it might still not be enough for the others.

No news on the TS yet...

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:33 am

TS rumour 1: Strobel first after qualification. Yeah!

TS rumour 2: Stride 2:nd after qualification!? What timing system are they using over there?

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:59 am

This is as fast as it gets. Just heard the final TS runs live on the phone. (Gesmers). Final between Richy Carrasco and Maurus Strobel. Runner up final between Keith Hoolien and Paul Price. With Henry Hesters commentary Strobel managed to keep his qualifying 1:st into a final world champ title. Finally, for him. But it was not heading that way at all. Richy had a big lead going into the second run. Strobel had a good start but took two cones early on. Richy seemed to play it safe but at the end he lost control and run over a bunch of cones and DQ'd. Almost the same thing happened in the runner up final. Hoolien with a good advantage but DQ let Paul take the third. Funny. Same results as one of the disciplines in the Major in Cologne, Germany earlier this year. Maurus 1:st and Price 3:rd.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 2:26 am

Just waiting for the official results to be able to calculate everything correctly but manually with what I know this is what I get out of it.

Pro World Rank after Morro Bay (Not official!)
1 Maurus Strobel, SUI 4220 (place unchanged)
2 Kenny Mollica, USA 4112 (2 up from 4:th place)
3 Richy Carrasco, USA 4060 (3 up from 6:th)
4 Chris Hart, SUI 3864 (2 down from 2:nd, point unchanged)

If Richy would have won against Strobel in the TS final he still would not have beaten Strobel in the ranking. With Strobels second place he would have gained less points but still enough to be ahead of Richy. But he would have taken the 2:nd place in the 2004 season Pro ranking. As it is now Mollica is taking the number two spot.

But as I can't say enough. When I get hold of the official result lists we will have the correct points. I might have done mistakes calculating by hand above.

Ramón Königshausen · Post by **Ramón Königshausen** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:35 am

Hans Koraeus wrote: Funny. Same results as one of the disciplines in the Major in Cologne, Germany earlier this year. Maurus 1:st and Price 3:rd.

Oh, cool! That means I'm 2:nd! Am I?

rmn

John Gilmour · Post by **John Gilmour** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:23 am

Hans Koraeus wrote:For those who want to have a look at the World Ranking(s) before Morro Bay the possibility exists. With great programing help from Daniel Poweleit the World Ranking site has taken its first step. For now only the different rankings are shown but more specific results will soon be possible for each event and person in detail. There are still some bugs and incorrect data but in the whole it's ok.

Before looking at the current ranking (2004 up until September) I want to make you aware of the fact that it is a little bit out of balance. Skaters that has still not entered a Major this year (most of those going to Morro Bay) have placements that are lower than expected. But remind youself that they will have a big boost of points after this weekend at the Worlds. Hard to say exactly how much but the majority will have between 500 and 1200 points added.

What you still can make out of the current ranking is that the 2004 season first place is a battle between Maurus Strobel, Kenny Mollica and Richy Carrasco. They are all in Morro Bay to battle it out. Others who will make a great jump up the ranking towards the very top is Jason Mitchell, Gary Fluitt, Chris Barker, Keith Hollien, Steve Olson, Bobby Mandarino, Barrett Deck, Vlad Popov and Michael Dong. As fast as I get the results from Morro Bay I will calculate and publish the final standings.

Have a look at The World Rankings and remember: Lot's of people will have a big point boost the coming weekend in Morro Bay.

The above analysis proved to be relatively accurate in the end.

What is most interesting is the few racers that haven't raced others When they finally meet and IF the ranking somewhat predicts who actually wins.

Of course this can get easily skewed when for instance a highly ranked GS specialist meets a lower ranked but proficient TS specialist for instance in a TS.

I suppose rankings could be created for each event as well. But then we get into the arguements over classifications of event such as a TS that is actuallya GS with a few ts cones or a Hybrid that is called a GS etc. Difficult to do without clear definitions.....it is a shame since slalom racing really wants to have defined rankngs- and for that the timer is king.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:55 am

Now I have updated the World Ranking database with the results from Morro Bay. There are still a few results missing but nothing that affects the top players.

So Kenny finally didn't get hold of that first place in the 2004 year ranking. This due to Strobels win on the last day TS and Mollicas "not as good as he hoped but still very good" results. He still managed to take 2:nd. Richy had that second place in his hand but lost it on the very last cones in the last final run against Maurus. But Mollica still have a first place to celebrate. He holds the first place in the 4-year ranking (which only holds 2003 and 2004 results for the moment). This year shows how important it is to show up at one of the yearly Majors. Luca would have had a good chance of taking a top placement but now "only" takes 10:th. Luca still holds on to a third place in the 4-year ranking though.

Surprises in top ten this year must be Jason Mitchell, Ramon Königshausen and Chris Barker. Ramon and Chris running as amateur in 2003 shows how good some of the "amatuers" can be. And it's not over. There will be new surprises for 2005 I'm sure. I just have to mention Steve Olson too. He is just outside top 10 with an 11:th place. He doesn't make too much noice of himself but the results speaks for him.

2004 Pro World Ranking
1 Maurus Strobel, SUI
2 Kenny Mollica, USA
3 Richy Carrasco, USA
4 Chris Hart, SUI
5 Jason Mitchell, USA
6 Gary Fluitt, USA
7 Ramón Königshausen, SUI
8 Paul Price, GBR
9 Chris Barker, USA
10 Luca Giammarco, ITA

Sam Gordon · Post by **Sam Gordon** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:17 pm

Corky, love the rankings because not only does it puts me higher than many skaters who can leave me standing, but also includes just about anyone who has put a foot near a slalom board. Top work!

Could I possibly be ranked under 'GBR' as opposed to 'UK?' At the moment I seem to be in a country of one, so no chance of a skate-off for top position. I'm coming first and last at the same time. It might also shake Niall H-S's lofty position in the UK Ams...!

Also, it seems that you have a listing of results from Dan G at Morro Bay. Is it possible that you could publish these?
Thank you,
Sam.

Corky diligently recording events at the Euro Championships, Koln 2004.

Pierre Samray · Post by **Pierre Samray** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:38 pm

Corky. Here is some mistakes I see concerning some racers.
Benjamin Brozzoni is french not swiss.
Alice Arthaud finish 3 in super gs in Antibes in 2003 and she has no results in 2003. (she was second this year)
Patrick Allan is two times in the world ranking : one as Patrick Allan and one as Allan Patrick. Swiss guy Jojo linder and Jojo Illegale are the same personne.

A lot of people in France don't understand you give point to people who doesn't finish their run and be DQ. Easy to note that a guy who has never practice slalom or even never skate can register in pro and go in the start without passing a cone can have a maximum of 1150 points if he participes to one major and 3 mains. so finish about 64 in men and 12 in woman just behind Elena Sidonova.

Pierre Samray · Post by **Pierre Samray** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:55 pm

this is not critical. Anyway you make a great work and I respect it.
I'm just the spokesman of french slalom scene. I try to explain them the world ranking rules.

A lot of french don't understand why there are pro and amateur. I speak about two class as in several sports. But I think we have to explain clearly who is who. Now we have a world ranking , it can permit to make a selection between the 2 class.
By exemple : Only people from the 50 can register in the pro class, and we can give some wild card for national champion or old champion who is back (was in the 10 before). The precedents results must be the way to do the selection between pro and am. Not the racer who choice.
that's my opinion. Most of french follow me on this way.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:04 pm

Thanks Sam and Pierre for your input. Positive or negative doesn't matter. Critisism is not bad and it often leads to a better result in the end. Hitting down on guys giving critisism is not good even though you don't agree. You might then scare away others who might have had some good ideas as well.

Sam,
Don't be ashamed of your ranking position. You travel around a lot and by that you support the whole slalom scene. Without guys like you the ranking wouldn't be fun anyway. If people think they are better than you they only have to show up at competitions and proove it. I saw that both you and Linford had UK registered as nationality. It will be fixed to the next update.

Pierre,
I have fixed your comments as well.

The Super-G Women results from Antibes 2003 where missing in my database. They are now entered. It moved Alice into a respectable 13:th place in the 2003 Womens ranking. Anne Semay got a boost at the same time by moving up 5 places to a 7:th place.

Patrick Allan moved up from 130 to 110. Jojo Illegale moved up to 19:th in the 2003 Pro ranking (from 28 ).

About the DQ points I have just added a topic in the rules section. Have a look here. There is no risk for people missusing the DQ points. You can only count 2 DQ points into your yearly total ranking point.

About Pro and Am classes there will be a need for more specification with time. For now it is handled by organizers and racers themselves. There have been some grey zones but in general I think it has not been missused either. The day we will be forced to set limits on entrance into competitions we will certainly have to come up with something.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:20 am

Ok, the rankings are updated with Sam's and Pierre's comments above. I noticed that I had not implemented the maximum 2 DQ point rule in my calculation. There was only one person (Henry Julier) who was touched by this rule so it doesn't seem like many has tried that DQ plan that the French where worried about. And there you see. Something good came out of it. Now the 2 DQ rule is implemented.

Sam, I couldn't resist looking into yours and Niall's rank data. This is something you will be able to do yourselves on the site later. Here are the underlaying data for your 2004 AM ranking points.

Point Place Event - Sam Gordon 1447 points
195 14 Grüningen, SUI
203 12 Cologne, GER
218 9 Antibes, FRA
241 6 Antibes, FRA
295 14 Morro Bay, USA
295 14 Morro Bay, USA

Point Place Event - Niall Horton-Stephens 1414 points
200 4 Brand Hatch, GBR
208 11 Antibes, FRA
210 3 Brand Hatch, GBR
251 5 Antibes, FRA
260 25 Morro Bay, USA
285 16 Morro Bay, USA

There you have it. The reason why you are ahead of Niall. Sam, your Morro Bay Major points was higher than your Cologne Major points. This mean Morro Bay will be counted with Major points and Cologne will be counted with Main points. Seems like you are ahead of Niall about the amount of points you where ahead in Morro Bay. So one could say you did battle it out at the Worlds and that it finished in your advantage. On top of that what I see in the AM ranking you have the number 1 place among the amateur Great Britains. Your slalom travels this year have paid off. Congratulations.

Sam Gordon · Post by **Sam Gordon** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:45 am

Ha Ha! Thanks Corky. The CCR boys take top three positions in the GBR amateur rankings. Shopped to the top!

Next year then, Mr H-S?

Peter Klang · Post by **Peter Klang** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:30 pm

Here I go again, sticking my BIG nose way out there.

About the ranking of competitions, Major, main and so on.

I think now, when more skaters travel to compete and more organizers are putting on event, all are in need of guidelines. Why not have a set format for what on organizer must provide (ex prize money). That way an organizer knows what to do if he/she wants to get a Main event. Riders know what event to book in there schedule. Just a thought.

Heiko Schöller · Post by **Heiko Schöller** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:00 pm

Hi Corky

I want to check my points just for the fun of it. How many points does everybody get for witch place?
In formula 1 I know 1. place is 10 points and the 2.place is 8points...

Best regards Heiko

Donald Campbell · Post by **Donald Campbell** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:43 pm

tschörmannie siss points
hahahahahahahahaha

Niall Horton-Stephens · Post by **Niall Horton-Stephens** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:01 pm

Thanks for your hard work Corky... and for the illumination on Sam vs. my placings... I think however Sam should be penalised for rowdy and drunken behaviour on at least two continents through the year... that's got to be worth at least 34 points...

And yes Mr Gordon, 004, next year... maybe ve vill all be vearing ze lycra... ya...?

Rock on CCR

Niall Horton-Stephens · Post by **Niall Horton-Stephens** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:06 pm

Or could you just change Sam back to GBR rather than UK... I rather liked that lofty position...

Donald Campbell · Post by **Donald Campbell** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:20 pm

niall,i think sam should get an extra 50 points,same as me,for charging the streets of antibes at night,regardless of traffic and rowdy drivers.we were searching,in typical sportsman style,for a pack of cigarettes,paul,me and sam were desperate for a smoke.after approx 15 miles on board,we finally got a cheap pack at a "cheap" pub for the incredible sale prize of 6.- euros.
so that gives us extra mileage on that contest.since it's common use for airplane tickets to award etra mile points-why not here?

Ramón Königshausen · Post by **Ramón Königshausen** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 9:45 pm

blabla....the season is over....

rmn

Paul Price · Post by **Paul Price** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:33 pm

Not until the results from the West Virginia contest are added,

Kenny got 2 first places there, and the rest of the competitiors got some results!

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:43 pm

As I have said before this data will be possible to be drawn out on http://www.slalomranking.com later on. I still think that some could be of general interest already now. Like the 2004 amateur top 3. David Pirnack is so far the stongest amateur seen in this ranking. He is not far from a rank grand slam. Just look at those results.

Point Place Event - David Pirnack, USA 2240 points
330 1 The Farm 4 - Sold Out
330 1 The Farm 4 - Sold Out
330 1 U.S. Championships
330 1 La Costa Open
420 3 Morro Bay, USA
500 1 Morro Bay, USA

Point Place Event - Vincent Berruchon, FRA 2008 points
264 4 Paris World Cup, FRA
277 3 Antibes, FRA
297 2 Antibes, FRA
330 1 Paris World Cup, FRA
420 3 Cologne, GER
420 3 Cologne, GER

Point Place Event - Heiko Schöller, GER 1972 points
264 4 Grüningen, SUI
264 4 Grüningen, SUI
297 2 Antibes, FRA
297 2 Antibes, FRA
400 4 Cologne, GER
450 2 Cologne, GER

I have never seen David Pirnack but looking at his results (not those above who only shows his Am placements but the "Open" results) he looks ready for trying it out with the Pro's next year. For Vincent and Heiko I don't see any urgent signs for going Pro yet. Unless they personally want to. Funny enough there are others further down that most likley will go Pro next year. Henrik Madsen who took 1:st and 2:nd in the Cologne Major and Anders Hellqvist who took 1:st and 2:nd in Paris World Cup and 2 wins in Antibes. Both Swedes. Both ready to take on the Pros.

There is still not a sharp edge between Pro and Am class. For me a couple of important wins in the Am class normally is a good sign to go on up to the Pro class. This has worked fine so far since it becomes natural to do. There is nothing more to prove in the Am class. The tricky bit is what to do with the Pro class if it gets too crowded. Can Pros that doesn't hold the standard step down a class? Would that be back into the Am class or another Open/"Pro challenge" class? This is a tricky one for the future because I still like the idea with the AM class to start out with. Then if you make it there you try the Pro Class. But then? If you manage to hold out until you are 45 we could shake life into the Legends class. But up to 45 we might need something more if more and more skaters starts slalom like Gods.

For you who suddenly got an urge to give your view on the Pro/Am subject can do that on AM/Open or PRO. Discussion also exist on if to use the division at all at Pro and Open or A-Pro/B-Pro?.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 12:10 am

Paul,
The Mountain Challenge in West Virginia will most likley not affect the top of the rankings since this competition has "only" prime status. But for those who have not got their 8 results for the year yet (8 for Pros, 6 for Ams), like Vlad, it certainly will get them a little push up in the ranking. Even more if there where 8 or more pros in the start field. Then they will get Pro points instead of Open points. Even though Mollica won for example it will not change his ranking point for the year. But the top is not everything. I think it just as funny seeing the battle between slalom buddy's further down in the rankings. A good example is Sam and Niall above. That will be a very interesting match for 2005. And what I understand there are many many more friendly competitions like that going on. And this was one of the intentions with the ranking in the first place. To give everybody a yearly challenge at whatever level you are and by that giving people an extra reason to travel and compete on those slalom competitions that are organized.

Claude Regnier · Post by **Claude Regnier** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:12 am

Hans this is all very good. I was impressed with the stats you picked up from the few Canadian racers and races.

One thing that is skewed (spelling?) from all of this is that David is no Amateur on a Global scale. His skill level on cetain courses and certain days are amongts the best in the field of Slalom Skateboard Racing.

Notheless the stats are worthwhile and the longer it is accurately fed the cream will rise to the top. Of course some of the cream will always consist for those who make it to contests over some of those who refuse to travel to events.

Long gone are the days of the best racers being from one given area.

Sam Gordon · Post by **Sam Gordon** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:12 am

The lycra was a desperate last ditch attempt at speed. Sorry about that. Next year I will return to more sombre, conservative apparel.

Picture: Horton-Stephens private collection (somewhere near the Van Gogh)

Yup. Definitely something more pub-worthy.

Pierre Samray · Post by **Pierre Samray** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 9:18 am

Another double racer.
Adrien Hochart (his true name) and Adrien Auchare 321 and 340 in the scracth 2004 ranking.
Organizer please take care with orthograf

))!!

I 'm sure that Jonyx and Jon Warburton 203 and 291 on the 4 years total ranking are the same personne too. But may be the brits know that better than me.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:20 pm

Claude,
David did enter AM class in 2003 but for 2004 this has not been possible since all races in US has been OPEN's. I moved up Noah Heinle and Chris Barker to PRO though (without their consent). They topped the 2003 AM ranking and looking at their results for 2004 I think it was correct. For David I had no reason to do that though unless he had himself asked for a pro status. I think he is worth his AM top spot. I have said it before that some of the top Am's are halfways Pro's and the system also reflects this with how the points are set. He is ranked 20 in the 2003 total ranking including both Pro and Am skaters. The goal for David is now to defend that position running as pro in 2005. Another interesting story to follow next year.

Talking about this let's have a look at how Noah Heinle and Chris Barker managed to defend their positions this year. After the 2003 season Noah had 23:rd place in the total ranking running as Am. In 2004 he managed to defend that position as Pro with his current 21:st place. But if he would have been able to enter the Worlds he would have been even higher, believe me. Chris Barker was 34 in the total ranking running as Am in 2003. This year running as Pro he is 9:th! That is what I call "Rookie of the year". Another forgotten hero of 2004. Why is nobody chearing and screaming for him? I think the ranking can sometimes put the finger on things that is not awlays so easy to see.

Pierre,
Thanks again for helping out with double names. Making the ranking official and more public in the future will hopefully make these things less common.

I'm just awaiting the results from the "3rd Annual Mountain State Slalom Skate". Then we can close the books for 2004. This does not mean that other competition results might not be added but with this one those with higher statuses are done.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:33 am

The Events button is implemented at http://www.slalomranking.com. This means you can now list the result lists for all event discipline classes that are included in the World Ranking database.

Daniel Poweleit is doing some good programming work behind the scene. Next is the Racers button that will list all registered results for a specific racer.

Sorry for the very simple design of the site so far. We are concentrating ourselves on the data output first.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:34 pm

Rick wrote:Corky - don't apologize! The World Rankings may do more to promote slalom skateboard racing than any other single effort! We now have a resource the media can refer to before a race, something that was lacking before (sure we have SS.com, but it can be a b*tch to wade through the posts, and NCDSA...well I'm sure I'm not the only one who has stopped sending anyone with an interest in skateboard racing to that website).

And as an added bonus - we can see that the number of racers grew by 14% from 2003 to 2004. Not bad, not bad.

There is a lot of interesting things hidden in numerical data. That's why we got statisticians. Like Rick.

There are almost 800 persons in the ranking already after two years. And it could have been more if only all competitions out there was registered. There are still many missing. Ok, maybe they are maybe often smaller ones but they too do also help out the sport. The smaller and more local races are where most new racers step in. Making them count will help the ranking person file grow which could be our way of proving that the sport grows for external people. So don't be shy to send in local competition results. I should maybe say though that they should be serious competitions but that doesn't mean they have to be on a world level. One small sign for me of a somewhat serious competition is if you pay to enter it, even though it's just a buck or two.

Making statistical analyses like Rick is great fun. I will continue on his path and add some more analyses and some more data facts.

Number of persons in the ranking
2003 473 men and 40 women
2004 542 men and 35 women
Total 758 men and 58 women

About data facts the Men ranking is in theory and Open ranking since women and juniors may attend the mens class. This is why there are also some women in the mens ranking. When women compete in a mens class they get both men and women points.

Rick is getting the whole idea. Forums can only go that far in promoting the sport. There is also a need for another face towards the "none slalom nerds". Hopefully slalomranking.com can be such a place. It's not much to shout about yet. But just wait until we get up the personal profile pages and get a little "style" on it. Only with the ranking info you get quite a good profile of a racer. Adding some photos and some racer intro will make it even better. A forum is not a part of such a site in my view. That is already taken cared of elsewhere.

This idea is not new. We had started to get something going and had a worldranking up when the scene collapsed in 1995. Since then all the ideas have been kept in my drawer. When I got involved in slalom again I was way ahead of the new scene. I have eagerly waited it out but I think it starts to get some steam now. Now it's up to us all to decide where we want to take it.

By keeping my tentacles out I knew I would sooner or later get in contact with someone who could give a hand. Daniel Poweleit is such a person that popped up from nowhere to help. Without his web programming help this project would not have been up and running on the web at this point.

Dave Gale · Post by **Dave Gale** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:52 pm

Have you decided not to include the Mountain State Slalom Skate this year?? I think Price Mollica Vlad Harms Stanziale etc... would like to have theyir points accounted!!! I saw no place in the "rankings" for 2004 results
Enjoy,
Dave G

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:06 pm

Corky and all who have helped with www.slalomranking.com ...Thank you!

I just now took a look at the site...WOW!

I love it. Please keep up the great work.

Jack

Wes Eastridge · Post by **Wes Eastridge** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:29 pm

Dave Gale wrote:Have you decided not to include the Mountain State Slalom Skate this year??

Have you made the results available? I certainly haven't seen them posted anywhere.

Hans Koraeus · Post by **Hans Koraeus** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:44 pm

Exactly the point WesE. I only have the first day 77 cone race. I'm eagerly awaiting the second day results so I can do the next update. There are a couple of small person data fixes too. And maybe some sensitive result changes for the... Woooorlds. Ooooh.

All slalom results are welcome. If you see some results missing in the WR it is a mistake. Just send them to me and I will add them.

Dave Gale · Post by **Dave Gale** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:53 pm

My bad Corky/WesE. I posted them (Iswear) but I have been having pc troubles(it lets me work a crap load ..then disconects) so it never went through apparently! Right after I get these munchkin heads fed, I'll try again!

Join the ISSA 25 cone series. One cyber race every second month!

Regular sessions allow newbies to join our community and discover slalom racing.

[2004] World rankings: Overall

Funky Points?

World rankings

David Pirnack

www.slalomranking.com