Good Starter Setup?

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Alex Walters
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Good Starter Setup?

Post by Alex Walters » Tue Jun 29, 2004 11:32 am

So I'm new to slalom. I do a lot of longboarding and this site among others has got me interested in slalom. I'm almost ready for a nice slalom setup and I was wondering if the following would be a nice, high quality beginner setup?

Deck: Roe Racing PS Unlimited
Trucks: Seismic 105mm 45* in the front 30* in the back
Wheels: 3dm Avalons

I haven't decided on bearings. I'll probably just get some Bones Reds to start and maybe upgrade to some nicer bones swiss or other high quality bearing later when I can afford them. I'm also having trouble deciding on wheel derometer. On the roads here I can slide out on my 78a longboard wheels but the Avalons have a bigger contact patch so the 75a/78a should be great. The front derometer is giving me more trouble how many "a's" apart would you guys recommend the front and back wheels to be. The speed of the wheels doesn't bother me too much. If anything I want a slower wheel to start. Right now I'm not trying to win any races. I'm just trying to learn to pump and to run some cones.

Paul Keleher
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Post by Paul Keleher » Tue Jun 29, 2004 3:27 pm

Alex,

Have you used/tried seismics before in your longboarding experience?

if not, i would ...i would go for the tried and tested Tracker RT-x front RT-s rear to start with, particulalrly if you are familiar with traditional style trucks.....get some wedges and some soft Khiro bushings for the front and your set.....the stock white 80a avalons should be in everybodies bag so its a good starting point. perhaps get a pair of the 86a avalons for the front on good surfaces, maybe some cambria's for the future, then some trimmed down av's, then.....then.....then...it just goes on and on!!

your choice of deck is spot on....the ROE unlimited is the "swiss army knife" of slalom boards....

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Post by Tod Oles » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:03 am

Deck: Roe Racing PS Unlimited
Trucks: Seismic 105mm 45* in the front 30* in the back
Wheels: 3dm Avalons
Alex,

I learned to slalom on the exact setup you’re describing. I love mine! Waaay beyond a starter rig!

Now that I've had both Seismics and Trackers on it, I believe the Seismics are much more linear and IMO easier to learn, (although I am having good luck with a 45* Seismic frt. and a Tracker Rts out back.)

The tried and true is 5 duro points between frt and rear.

If I had to do it again I would have saved the soft wheels for when they are necessary and learned to pump on harder wheels on the best surface you can find. Not only do the harder wheels last longer, but you’ll pick up on the nuances of keeping traction balanced front to rear. And managing
the rear end while turning and accelerating is really what it's all about...

Mind you, I’m not talking 90a but I’d do as Paul said and get a range
from 78-86a for sure and try to practice on the stiffer compounds.
I went through a set of rear 75a Avalons in about 3 total hours of pumping practice. And then when I switched to harder wheels I found that the soft urethane was forgiving my bad technique.

Before I say bye bye, be forewarned…!! THIS IS AN ADDICTION !!
and thus we’re all here to... help you.....

Evil laughing ensues.... cloud of smoke..... gone.

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Post by Alex Walters » Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:37 am

Yea the deck is the one thing I'm sure about. I've heard great things about it. Tod, you said you liked the 45 quick turn in the front and the tracker RT-S in the back. That seems like a good setup for me. The trackers cost less and having one in the back might be a good way to take a little off of the price tag of this setup. I've heard great things about the Seismics but I've also heard that they are a bit difficult to learn on as Paul said. With this in mind I might just go and get the RT-X/S combo. Though I still might get a Seismic in the front or all Seismics. I wanna hear more input about that. As for wheels. You guys said harder. So would 85a in the front and 80a in the back be good?

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Post by Tod Oles » Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:41 am

Alex,

Maybe you've seen this already? 65$ Roe Unlimited viewtopic.php?t=1152


I've dealt with Toyandsport a couple of times. Great service and Gary Holl
is a Roe team member. He was very helpful when I got into this.

Tod

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Post by Alex Walters » Wed Jun 30, 2004 5:47 am

Awesome! I was looking more for the med flex than the med/stiff flex but with a deal that good I don't think it matters too much. I'll look into it.

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Post by Tod Oles » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:04 am

Yeah, 85ft 80r. Thats what I've been riding since the St. Louis race. The 80 Avalon is a magic thing, grippy yet fast...

I just want to make clear that I really think that the seismics have been
easier for me to learn on because they are so "linear" I feel the Rtx tips into
a turn slowly and then ramps up as you press onto an edge. Not bad, just different. Looking back I'm still glad I learned on the Seismics. You will get used to them quickly and you'll learn to take advantage of their accurate
feel, like your more in touch with the contact patch.

A couple of the guys in St. Louis have gotten turned onto the front 45*

I rode an Ick stick w/ seismic ft. and an Offset rear that was just Unreal!!
Gonna get me one a those!!!

( I ride a med stiff, I'm 195lbs. There's two drillings for the rear truck.
It's still pretty flexible for me in the shorter wheelbase, so be sure to experiment...)

later, Tod
Last edited by Tod Oles on Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:23 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Alex Walters » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:12 am

Ok I guess I'll get the Seismics. I've heard they take some getting used to but I'm not worried too much about that because I'm gettin used to almost all of slalom and you've assured me that it doesn't take long to get the hang of them. I'll get the 85/80 setup for wheels. Within the next day or too I'll call about that deck and hope they still have it and I'm sure I'll be fine with the med/stiff, I'm almost 150lbs.

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Post by Tod Oles » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:24 am

Alex, did you catch my (edit)...?

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try before you buy

Post by Steve Collins » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:31 am

My suggestion is not to get too hung up on what you are learning (or think you are learning) online.

Go skate with slalomers that are already experts. Most of them are glad to be helpful to beginners.

Ride their boards, see what they've done, learn from them.

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Post by Alex Walters » Wed Jun 30, 2004 6:51 am

Well I'd be hanging out with other skaters but I don't know of anyplace. Does anyone know of a place that slalom skateboarders hang out in the LA area?

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hanging out

Post by Steve Collins » Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:06 pm

Is that Louisiana or Los Angeles?

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Post by Alex Walters » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:04 pm

Los Angeles

Tod Oles
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Post by Tod Oles » Wed Jun 30, 2004 11:49 pm

Alex,

I too thought you were from Louisiana, oops
You really need to do as Steve suggests and go ride different setups.

If slalom enthusiasts out in Los Angeles are as Cool as the guys I’ve met…
Shouldn’t cost ya more than a beer or two. ;-)

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California beer is the best beer ;)

Post by Steve Collins » Thu Jul 01, 2004 2:33 am

I'm not an expert, but I'll skate with you. I drink Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, AFTER practice.

The "LA area" is big with lots of sub regions. There are a lot of slalom skaters, as well as every other kind of skater. Unfortunately, most of the the slalomers are relatively well dispersed.

I live in San Pedro which is actually the southern tip of the City of Los Angeles proper. I work in downtown Los Angeles. Where are you at?

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Post by Alex Walters » Sun Jul 04, 2004 11:23 am

Yea I don't think meeting with other skaters in the area is going to work out. Anyway here's the setup I'm going to get at this point.

Deck: Roe PS Unlimited
Trucks: RT-X/S
Wheels: ABEC 11 Grippins(81a) or 3dm Avalons (85a front/80a rear)
Bearings: Just some Bones Redz. I'm not too concerned with speed. I just want something of fairly good quality at a low price. I might get some ABED 7 Biltins if I decide to spend a little more.
Other: I'm going to buy sets of 5/16 flat risers and some 9/16-5/16 wedges and experiment with the possible setups I also might buy some 5/16 flat risers too because risers are cheap.
Last edited by Alex Walters on Sun Jul 04, 2004 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Tod Oles » Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:48 pm

Alex,

If you haven't already, go to ncdsa.com and try to hook up with someone there. This sport needs you young guns to keep it growing. Good luck to you!! Tod

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Post by Mathias Puentedura » Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:56 pm

I am a beginner too and i ve spend some money in order to have a good setup.

My setup :

Roe racing Bottle rocket PS
(not so expensive, sublime and very good moreover you have differents stiffness, but carbon don't like hit...)

Tracker RTS/X

Khiro Bushings (front blue and rear Red/Blue)

Abec 11 stingray 77A rear and 84A front

Turner abec7 (very unexpensive here in france thank's etienne ;-))

Wedge pads... (classic wedge pads i don't know wich angle i have...)

You have to use some money (especially here in france) but i think that i won't change my setup (exept bearings and wheels) for a while...

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Post by Mike Milner » Tue Jul 06, 2004 12:18 am

I've been longboarding for a little over a year now and me and my friend jack have been looking for a way to get organized. We ran into a guy( didnt catch his name) at a hardware store, he told us to check this out. I need to to know if the set up i have is able to do slalom runs. I've got and Gordon and Smith fibreflex 38' pintail deck, 70's flashbacks 70 mm wheels, abec 7 bearings, randal 180 trucks, and 1/4 inch risers.

Comments...

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Giant slalom, but not tight

Post by Jonathan Harms » Tue Jul 06, 2004 8:34 pm

Mike, your setup is made more for cruising and/or going down hills very fast. Thus, your board is a bit long and your trucks are a bit wide for what most people call "slalom".

BUT...don't let that stop you from doing it anyway. If you can link turns, you are already slaloming, in a sense. All you have to do now is find some cones, or mark some spots on the street, or...find some other people who have cones and equipment.

You may not know it, but you live near a hotbed of slalom activity--one of the best in the country, in fact, with sessions and races happening regularly. Check out the D.C. forum on this site, and when you feel comfortable, try to get in touch with some of the guys that post there regularly. I've met a bunch of them, and they are all decent guys. Odds are, some of them will have extra equipment you can use, or buy for a decent price. Good luck to you, and welcome to the site.

John Gilmour
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Post by John Gilmour » Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:30 pm

As for good starter set ups. I don't think it makes a huge difference about what you get to start on so long as it is a really easy to turn and pump deck.

My advice to people is to get a really small wheelbase deck to start- mostly because it is like a lower pumping gear. It will be easier to learn the motions to generate speed.

Also a smaller deck will teach you to ride with your weight focused. And it will force you to keep your feet inbound of the deck so you don't hit cones with your toes and heels. It will teach you quickness as a smaller deck tops out sooner so you'll have to learn quicker and quicker movements to generate speed. This will eventually enable you to process over 4 cones per second.

Once you learn to pump with the small deck
(If you are under 5' use a 24" deck if over try starting with a 27-29 inch deck) Jump to a much much much larger deck.

Instead of going up gradually--- Jump to a huge sized longboard and learn an entirely different style of riding and pumping. You'll find the two styles are pretty different. Try to learn the limits of each deck and also try to force the deck to do some gates that are inappropriate ie too tight or too loose. That way you'll learn how to make a deck work for all situations, and most importantly you'll learn the limitations of each deck and know which deck will suit your purposes for racing.

Then from both sides of the spectrum you can start going smaller with the long boards and longer with the short boards. Eventually- you'll learn to ride everything and be able to race/pump nearly anything.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour

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Post by John Gilmour » Thu Jul 08, 2004 2:41 pm

Mike Milner wrote:I've been longboarding for a little over a year now and me and my friend jack have been looking for a way to get organized. We ran into a guy( didnt catch his name) at a hardware store, he told us to check this out. I need to to know if the set up i have is able to do slalom runs. I've got and Gordon and Smith fibreflex 38' pintail deck, 70's flashbacks 70 mm wheels, abec 7 bearings, randal 180 trucks, and 1/4 inch risers.

Comments...

Nothing wrong with that set up for longboard slalom- I think I ran nearly that exact set up for the World Longboard Championships- I liked it a lot.

But it won't be competitive for short board slalom.

I think the first deck I ever pumped had California slalom trucks, on a 24 inch fibreflex and road rider 4s, (A borrowed deck) Low gearing- lots of grip. Later I used a 24inch fibreflex kicktail with Bennett Hijackers and Road rider 4's. After that I got a Henry Hester Fibreflex with OJ superjuice and Bennett Pro ad-tracs. I was about 4' 6" feet tall and 80lbs 11 years old.

I found tracker full tracks to be more stable but required more effort to turn. (You'll find the randalls to be much more stable and also more difficult to run through a course)

Get some quick turning trucks like Tracker RTX or Indys to start- they are cheap and should you buy a super high performance truck you can pass them on to others later so you'll have a buddy to skate with. Put the softest grommets in you can find and loosen them way up to learn to pump. Do not run a large wheel at first- run a smaller wheel like a Cambria or Stinger. An unexpected slide is easier to recover from on a smaller wheel.

Good luck.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour

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Post by Alex Walters » Fri Jul 09, 2004 12:45 am

John Gilmour wrote:
Instead of going up gradually--- Jump to a huge sized longboard and learn an entirely different style of riding and pumping.
I already have a 46" longboard that I can pump. I'm gonna go with the Roe. I'm ordering it tomorrow.

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Post by Jack Nagle » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:22 am

Could someone define the action of pumping a board. I'm not familiar with the term. Is it as simple as the action of pushing your board forth with your leg, or something more complicated?

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Post by Alex Walters » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:29 am

Pumping is propelling yourself using turns.

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Describe pumping a skateboard?

Post by Pat Chewning » Fri Jul 09, 2004 7:31 am

I'll try to describe a pump:

It IS:
Good timing of motion and conversion of angular momentum -- like pumping on a swing.
Very similar to ice skating -- think of generating speed by pushing the skate away from the center of the turn.
Upweighting and down-weighting combined with turning -- like skiing moguls.
Mostly done from the waist down. Knees bent!


It IS NOT:
Wild arm movements -- although they might help keep balance.
Upper-body twisting -- although that can help at extremely low speeds.
Rigid lower legs -- they have to be like springs.

Hope that helps.

-- Pat

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Post by John Gilmour » Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:38 am

You can actually pump up a hill- speeds in excess of 20mph are possible on good surface on flat. It is movement from a whip like motion- similar to a fish swimming- or a snake moving on the sand
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour

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Post by Alex Walters » Mon Jul 12, 2004 7:07 am

Updates on my slalom progress:
I've sent an email to RoeRacing inquiring about ordering my deck.

I've learned to pump my 46" longboard. I have bad form and am not used to the motions so I can't get any sort of speed but I'm working on it.

I tried running cones(solo cups) with my longboard. It didn't work too well but it's a start.

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Post by Alex Walters » Sat Jul 17, 2004 3:50 am

Oh Yea! my Trackers, Redz, Grippins and other stuff besides the deck arrived today. Now all I need is a quick trip to my local skateshop for some hardware and one more riser in 3/8" and the deck to come and I'll be running cones in no time. I'm leaving town on tuesday and my deck should be here just when I get back. The Grippins seem so sweet. I haven't even ridden them and I already want to get some in 78a for my longboard.

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Post by Alex Walters » Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:19 pm

I have a question. I asked this in the Roe forum but I'll ask it in the thread too. Can I use countersunk bolts on a Performance Series? I've had no experience with decks that are made of anything but wood and I know the bolts dig into the deck a little. I was just wondering if this causes any serious damage to the deck? I've heard you can't use countersunk on foam core decks but I was wondering if they can also damage the Performance Series decks.

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:26 am

Alex,

My 1982 Turner Summer Ski Full nose had counter sunk screws for 21 years with no problem. I only changed to the rubber-grommet protection when I changed from my old, wore out Hal Track to new RTs in 2003. The bolts were tight, the glass was fine, the foam was solid.

You can of course screw up and tighten down a bolt til it pulls through to the other side, but you can make that mistake with any material. I wouldn't recommend running counter sunk machine screws on a foam board, but it's not unheard of.

As far as counter sunks on the Performance, here's the skinny: go ahead. Gordon and Smith shippped Fibreflexes for years with counter-sunk mounts and it did no damage whatsoever to the glass or the maple. If you want to avoid head bolts on the top of your board, feel feel to countersink the mounts. Nothing is going to break and there won't be any impact on performance.

What I would suggest, though, is to ALWAYS put a lock washer on your bolt between the nut and the truck baseplate, even if you're using a nylon lock nut. The lock washer acts as a "tensioner" and keep plenty of bite for your bolt so there's never any loosening as your ride. You can always tell something has worked itself out because all of a sudden you get the most irritating "chatter" from your trucks. That's a loose bolt. All it takes is for the fiberglass or wood to compress the slightest amount and the bolt will not be snug. A twisted lock washer will eliminate that problem: if the fiberglas does compress a little under the countersunk head, the lock washer on the other side will expand a little and take up the slack. Everthing stays tight with no chatter and no problems.

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Post by Alex Walters » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:31 am

Ok cool. I figured it woudn't harm anything but I just wanted to be sure. Also where can I find these lock washers you speak of?

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Post by Wesley Tucker » Mon Jul 19, 2004 2:20 am

Alex,

Any hardware store. They aren't rare. I know you've seen them: just a washer that's "split" and got a little twist to it. Looks like a one-link spring. A bag full of stainless LWs at Home Deprt is 89¢.

The idea behind them is that when you screw down the nut the lock washer keeps tension on all the components. This way vibration doesn't work the nut loose. when I was younger (much younger) we pretty much always opted for lock washers and regular hex nuts. We could get a bag of nut and bolts for 24¢. Those nylon lock washers were EXPENSIVE: like, a bag of four was 59¢. WAY TOO MUCH MONEY for this skate punk.

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Post by Alex Walters » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:01 am

Ok I'll get a bag of those after I get back from my vacation. Which is about when my deck will arrive.

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Post by Alex Walters » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:57 pm

Today my friend and longbording buddy came over and we were carving up the hills near our house on our longboards. When we got back I saw the pile of solo cups I bought as cheap cones a while ago. We decided to try some slalom with out longboards. I set the cone 9 to 10 feet apart along the fall line which was great for a longboard. We tried some offset cones but we don't have enough skill for them yet and it made it hard for drivers to pass the cones. Today was technically the second time I've run through cones but the first time doesn't really count so it was the first. I had so much fun. I'm dieing waiting for my Roe. Luckily I'll be on vacation until it arrives and that will help me take my mind off of it.

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Post by Alex Walters » Wed Aug 04, 2004 10:59 pm

Yesterday and today I got a chance to setup a better course and I got to use my new Roe (25 cones, 7ft spacing, on the fall line) and all I can say is I'm not going to be spending as much time on a longboard. I had so much fun. We videotaped some of it but unfortunately didn't get to film my best run.

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