What is the right position of your feet on the board...???
'cause when I put my feet like on my downhill deck, I hit many cones with my feet...
I've seen pictures of guys whith their feet in a straight line on the board, but I find this position very unstable...
Help !!!
Feet position on the deck?
Moderator: Karl Floitgraf
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Benjamin Felgerolle
- Posts: 12
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- Location: Bordeaux, France
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Feet position on the deck?
fun is not a straight line
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Tod Oles
- Lone Stranger Racing
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- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:00 am
- Location: Blanco, Texas
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finding a stance
Benjamin,
I'm also new to slalom and I too started out in my old "surf" style stance and was not very successful. It took awhile to learn the modified parallel stance and I found I had to loosen my trucks so the board would respond to inputs, but now I know why alot of the fast riders use some variation of this type of stance. The biggest advantage for me is I'm able to square my shoulders to the course and heelside turns are approached using both eyes instead of peeking out the corner of the lead eye. I use the ole cyberslalom course as a means of testing different stances and styles and the drudgery is paying off!
I'm also new to slalom and I too started out in my old "surf" style stance and was not very successful. It took awhile to learn the modified parallel stance and I found I had to loosen my trucks so the board would respond to inputs, but now I know why alot of the fast riders use some variation of this type of stance. The biggest advantage for me is I'm able to square my shoulders to the course and heelside turns are approached using both eyes instead of peeking out the corner of the lead eye. I use the ole cyberslalom course as a means of testing different stances and styles and the drudgery is paying off!
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Andy Bittner
- GBJ
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- Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 2:00 am
- Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Gentlemen,
Welcome to the world of slalom skateboarding, where there are almost as many stances as there are slalom skaters.
It seems that the most popular variation (we'll call it the average-stance) is a stance where the feet are closer together than a trick skater's, with the toes angled (roughly 45°) toward the front of the board.
An important and very basic thing to remember in all of this is that there is usually no need to have your foot on or near the tail of a slalom board. For most trick-type skaters this requires some real re-training of muscle memory and intuitive foot positioning. It seems to me that most slalom skaters' stances are considerably further forward on the board than those skaters coming from the vert, freestyle or street worlds. The instability you feel as you modify your stance for slalom is real, compared to a surf stance, but you will get used to it. I even find that, at some point in the dim and murky past, learning the average-stance actually improved my surf stance riding, by putting myself more on the ball of my rear foot, even on a kicktail.
The general concept behind the "average-stance" is that toeside turns are generally driven by the ball of the rear foot, just behind the midpoint of the toeside rail, while heelside turns are driven by the heel of the front foot somewhere near the midpoint of the heelside rail.
I know I'm generalizing heavily here, but I tend to think of surf-stance turning as rocking both feet, either toward both toes or both heels. Completely opposite to that would be what we slalom skaters know as "the parallel stance". In the parallel stance the skater is really weighting one foot of the other; about as independent as two feet can be considering they are both standing on a single plane.
The average-stance tends to feature the independent, foot-to-foot action of the parallel stance, but adds stability as the feet are moved slightly toward the surf stance. In my own opinion, being comfortable in any of the aforementioned stances, I also find that the average-stance offers more driving power than the parallel stance, while the parallel stance, properly mastered, offers an easier ride, with quicker action, through even the tightest of courses.
Welcome to the world of slalom skateboarding, where there are almost as many stances as there are slalom skaters.
It seems that the most popular variation (we'll call it the average-stance) is a stance where the feet are closer together than a trick skater's, with the toes angled (roughly 45°) toward the front of the board.
An important and very basic thing to remember in all of this is that there is usually no need to have your foot on or near the tail of a slalom board. For most trick-type skaters this requires some real re-training of muscle memory and intuitive foot positioning. It seems to me that most slalom skaters' stances are considerably further forward on the board than those skaters coming from the vert, freestyle or street worlds. The instability you feel as you modify your stance for slalom is real, compared to a surf stance, but you will get used to it. I even find that, at some point in the dim and murky past, learning the average-stance actually improved my surf stance riding, by putting myself more on the ball of my rear foot, even on a kicktail.
The general concept behind the "average-stance" is that toeside turns are generally driven by the ball of the rear foot, just behind the midpoint of the toeside rail, while heelside turns are driven by the heel of the front foot somewhere near the midpoint of the heelside rail.
I know I'm generalizing heavily here, but I tend to think of surf-stance turning as rocking both feet, either toward both toes or both heels. Completely opposite to that would be what we slalom skaters know as "the parallel stance". In the parallel stance the skater is really weighting one foot of the other; about as independent as two feet can be considering they are both standing on a single plane.
The average-stance tends to feature the independent, foot-to-foot action of the parallel stance, but adds stability as the feet are moved slightly toward the surf stance. In my own opinion, being comfortable in any of the aforementioned stances, I also find that the average-stance offers more driving power than the parallel stance, while the parallel stance, properly mastered, offers an easier ride, with quicker action, through even the tightest of courses.
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Benjamin Felgerolle
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you know, i'm used to be on the front of my deck...
In downhill, most of the weight is on the front truck too ; But the deck is much bigger, and the trucks much more stable !!!
Anyway, ok !! I'll try to get used to the 45 degrees stance wich seems to be the best combination of stability/power/easy to learn...
I'll perhaps try parallel stance after...
By the way, asi don't want to create a new topic for a little question :
I often miss cones number 3 and/or 4... because I don't get the "rythm" early enough...
What is the solution to get rythm as soon as the first cone????
Or will it just come with training ( the : speak less ride more soltion )???
Thank you
In downhill, most of the weight is on the front truck too ; But the deck is much bigger, and the trucks much more stable !!!
Anyway, ok !! I'll try to get used to the 45 degrees stance wich seems to be the best combination of stability/power/easy to learn...
I'll perhaps try parallel stance after...
By the way, asi don't want to create a new topic for a little question :
I often miss cones number 3 and/or 4... because I don't get the "rythm" early enough...
What is the solution to get rythm as soon as the first cone????
Or will it just come with training ( the : speak less ride more soltion )???
Thank you
fun is not a straight line
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Chris Eggers
- Germany
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Ben,
try to be "early" in your turns.
That means you have to start the turn before you actually come close to the cone, not too early or you will knock it over. That is the most important thing in slalom and comes with practice. Try to stay close to the cones as much as possible not arching your turns more than neccessary. If you always hit no 3 or 4 try to start the turns before you even reach the first cone and keep the rythm. Try longer cone distances first and get tighter as you feel progression. Good luck and have fun!
try to be "early" in your turns.
That means you have to start the turn before you actually come close to the cone, not too early or you will knock it over. That is the most important thing in slalom and comes with practice. Try to stay close to the cones as much as possible not arching your turns more than neccessary. If you always hit no 3 or 4 try to start the turns before you even reach the first cone and keep the rythm. Try longer cone distances first and get tighter as you feel progression. Good luck and have fun!
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Vlad Popov
- Moscow-Washington
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Ben,
realistically, the problem might be not in the stance, but in the ability to pump the board. Many people who try to learn to pump around cones quit within a year. They never develop good pumping skills. On the other hand, those who practice freepumping/pumping uphill/ect end up being fast slalom racers in a matter of weeks.
Good luck.
realistically, the problem might be not in the stance, but in the ability to pump the board. Many people who try to learn to pump around cones quit within a year. They never develop good pumping skills. On the other hand, those who practice freepumping/pumping uphill/ect end up being fast slalom racers in a matter of weeks.
Good luck.
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Wesley Tucker
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
Ben,Ben wrote:By the way, as I don't want to create a new topic for a little question: I often miss cones number 3 and/or 4... because I don't get the "rhythm" early enough...
What is the solution to get rhythm as soon as the first cone????
If you don't mind, I'll quote myself from a post I put on this forum some months ago titled "So You Wanna Be A Slalom Skateboarder?" Personally, I think its very bad form to say to someone, "go here and read this!" Instead, I'll paste here the relevant portion as it pertains to your situation.:
<<3. If you want to ride slalom, then start by setting up a course that's IMPOSSIBLE. Try 15 cones just four feet apart. "FOUR FEET? Are you nuts? That's less than twice the length of my board!" I know. You'll knock down a lot of cones. Do it anyway. Knock 'em down. Set 'em up again and knock 'em down again. Do it over and over and over. First, you'll knock down all 15. Then, maybe only 10, then 5. Before you know it, you'll be twisting and yanking and standing on your head but you'll get through most of them. Then do it again. Once you get to where you can go that 56 feet, you'll feel it in your legs, your back and your arms.
4. Once you get that incredibly tortuous short course mastered (one day? two days? a week? it's up to you) then set up your cones at a normal spacing. Try 25 cones at six feet apart. You'll fly so fast through them your momentum towards the end will make you miss. Guaranteed. You'll actually find yourself having to SLOW DOWN to keep a good rhythm. All of a sudden, you're slalom skating. It took you less than a week.>>
I hope you can visualize what I'm getting at? Try it this weekend and let us know Monday if you can feel a difference.
P.S. Don't ask me about STANCE. I'll give you an answer that is 180 degrees out from 99% of every other slalom skater on Earth! I think my avatar demonstrates that I do stand on my board a bit differently than most other racers.
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Andy Bittner
- GBJ
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All have made very excellent points.
Chris' point is something most slalom skiers learn very early on. Personally, I visualize it as follows: I consider the space between cones as being a doorway, through which I must ride, and I always try to ride through just below the uphill doorjamb/cone. Obviously, I want to be careful about smacking into the uphill cone, but as I pass through the doorway, I actually have ample space between my track and the downhill cone. It’s a matter of staying slightly ahead of the course’s rhythm. I think all but the very best racers would agree that, once you begin to get behind and pass through each successive doorway lower and lower, and closer to the lower cone, it can be very difficult to recover.
Free-riding and learning to pump without cones is HUGELY important.
Wes’ exercises are excellent.
Here’s another that hasn’t been mentioned yet, but is also critically relative to each of the others. You must learn to look ahead. I think most experienced slalom racers would agree that they keep their eyes somewhere between 3 and 5 cones ahead. This skill is critical to staying high through the doorway, and may contribute significantly to solving your problem with cones 3 and 4. It’s very tough to pick up the rhythm of a series of slalom cones, when all you’re looking at is the cone immediately in front of you. For some people looking well ahead is natural, for others it can be a skill that actually takes a little work to tackle. Give it a try. Maybe you already do it. However, if you do find it difficult, just remember that most of it is mental. It’s a little like dropping in on a halfpipe for the first time. One might understand everything there is to understand about dropping in on a ramp, mentally, but it can still be tough to commit to fully committing to what feels like an insane nosedive.
(Wes… Did you ever race Brewington? How’d that go? Next time we’re in the same place, I’ll run you in a pure parallel stance match race. Of course, it’s the only slalom stance I used twenty-something years ago, and I hadn’t done it in a long time, but I’ve been riding parallel again recently and I think I’m about ready to race. I think I might be able to take you.)
Chris' point is something most slalom skiers learn very early on. Personally, I visualize it as follows: I consider the space between cones as being a doorway, through which I must ride, and I always try to ride through just below the uphill doorjamb/cone. Obviously, I want to be careful about smacking into the uphill cone, but as I pass through the doorway, I actually have ample space between my track and the downhill cone. It’s a matter of staying slightly ahead of the course’s rhythm. I think all but the very best racers would agree that, once you begin to get behind and pass through each successive doorway lower and lower, and closer to the lower cone, it can be very difficult to recover.
Free-riding and learning to pump without cones is HUGELY important.
Wes’ exercises are excellent.
Here’s another that hasn’t been mentioned yet, but is also critically relative to each of the others. You must learn to look ahead. I think most experienced slalom racers would agree that they keep their eyes somewhere between 3 and 5 cones ahead. This skill is critical to staying high through the doorway, and may contribute significantly to solving your problem with cones 3 and 4. It’s very tough to pick up the rhythm of a series of slalom cones, when all you’re looking at is the cone immediately in front of you. For some people looking well ahead is natural, for others it can be a skill that actually takes a little work to tackle. Give it a try. Maybe you already do it. However, if you do find it difficult, just remember that most of it is mental. It’s a little like dropping in on a halfpipe for the first time. One might understand everything there is to understand about dropping in on a ramp, mentally, but it can still be tough to commit to fully committing to what feels like an insane nosedive.
(Wes… Did you ever race Brewington? How’d that go? Next time we’re in the same place, I’ll run you in a pure parallel stance match race. Of course, it’s the only slalom stance I used twenty-something years ago, and I hadn’t done it in a long time, but I’ve been riding parallel again recently and I think I’m about ready to race. I think I might be able to take you.)
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Wesley Tucker
- 1961-2013 (RIP)
- Posts: 3279
- Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:00 am
Andy,
Racing Brewington at Morro Bay last year is where I screwed up my shoulder. I stomped him like an old beer can. (Although there is some controversey regarding those results
)
The only time we squared off this year was in the single-lane Vintage runs at 'Da Farm. My time was 12-something (I tied with Wentzle) and I think BB's time was somewhere in the 16's. Of course, the difference being is that I was still sore, it was my first race of the year and Brewington had raced all year and was at the top of his game.
Draw your own conclusions :-P
Racing Brewington at Morro Bay last year is where I screwed up my shoulder. I stomped him like an old beer can. (Although there is some controversey regarding those results
)The only time we squared off this year was in the single-lane Vintage runs at 'Da Farm. My time was 12-something (I tied with Wentzle) and I think BB's time was somewhere in the 16's. Of course, the difference being is that I was still sore, it was my first race of the year and Brewington had raced all year and was at the top of his game.
Draw your own conclusions :-P
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Troy Smart
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Hampton Bays, NY
Agony of da feet
I'm no expert but here's my experience so far.
When I first started my feet were hanging off the sides and hitting cones.
I would try and angle them forward but it usually would'nt last too long.
As of now my feet are angled in a way that they pretty much don't hang over the sides at all.
This just sort of happened, little by little naturally without much thought.
The more you slalom, the more things like that just sort of work themselves out.
And on a side note, the biggest problem I've experienced (still am) thus far,related to stance, has been trying to keep my back foot weighted enough so that I don't loose traction and slide out. For some reason I naturally want to lean forward. It's something that I have to constantly think about. Not at all one of those things that "naturally" works itself out.
Practice, practice.
When I first started my feet were hanging off the sides and hitting cones.
I would try and angle them forward but it usually would'nt last too long.
As of now my feet are angled in a way that they pretty much don't hang over the sides at all.
This just sort of happened, little by little naturally without much thought.
The more you slalom, the more things like that just sort of work themselves out.
And on a side note, the biggest problem I've experienced (still am) thus far,related to stance, has been trying to keep my back foot weighted enough so that I don't loose traction and slide out. For some reason I naturally want to lean forward. It's something that I have to constantly think about. Not at all one of those things that "naturally" works itself out.
Practice, practice.
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Benjamin Felgerolle
- Posts: 12
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Nice day today...
Great sunshine, not too cold...nice day to slalom !!!
I'm going to try your exercises and advices ( even though a 4 feet space between cone seems to me as absolutely impossible....).
I'll give you my impressions later...
P.S it's amazing to see all the advices you can give to newbies ( me )... In France, most of the riders's mentality is : "you're in deep s*it ??? I don't give a f**k ! Help youself !!!"
Great sunshine, not too cold...nice day to slalom !!!
I'm going to try your exercises and advices ( even though a 4 feet space between cone seems to me as absolutely impossible....).
I'll give you my impressions later...
P.S it's amazing to see all the advices you can give to newbies ( me )... In France, most of the riders's mentality is : "you're in deep s*it ??? I don't give a f**k ! Help youself !!!"
fun is not a straight line
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Andy Bittner
- GBJ
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- Location: Gaithersburg, MD
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Benjamin Felgerolle
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- Location: Bordeaux, France
- Contact:
Hey !!!
So, after a few days of trainig, I finally mastered 5 feet slaloms with my 30 cones... 4 feet still seems impossible to me...but...
It's obvious that if you know how to pump well "out of the cones", it is a lot easier to go through cones even when they're quite tight ( 5 feet is still very tight for me... 6 is a lot better and faster...)...
Thanx for all the advices...
But i had another problem at the end... :
My front foot was slipping toward the nose, and at the end of the course, it was nearly out of the deck, making me loose a lot of stability/power/speed...
A friend of mine ( a very good french slalomskateboarder, that Jani must know, Dieter Fleischer) has a piece a wood on his deck to block his feet. But i never tried it, 'cause he's goofy, and i'm regular... The footblock is not for my stance...
So I homemade this morning a footblock for me : It's a piece of plywood, 1 cm high, a bit looking like a half-moon, and placed it on the front screws of my front trucks...angled so that my foot is roughly angled at 45 degrees when stuck on it...
I've just tried it in the street fot the moment, it seems to work well...
What do you think about that????
So, after a few days of trainig, I finally mastered 5 feet slaloms with my 30 cones... 4 feet still seems impossible to me...but...
It's obvious that if you know how to pump well "out of the cones", it is a lot easier to go through cones even when they're quite tight ( 5 feet is still very tight for me... 6 is a lot better and faster...)...
Thanx for all the advices...
But i had another problem at the end... :
My front foot was slipping toward the nose, and at the end of the course, it was nearly out of the deck, making me loose a lot of stability/power/speed...
A friend of mine ( a very good french slalomskateboarder, that Jani must know, Dieter Fleischer) has a piece a wood on his deck to block his feet. But i never tried it, 'cause he's goofy, and i'm regular... The footblock is not for my stance...
So I homemade this morning a footblock for me : It's a piece of plywood, 1 cm high, a bit looking like a half-moon, and placed it on the front screws of my front trucks...angled so that my foot is roughly angled at 45 degrees when stuck on it...
I've just tried it in the street fot the moment, it seems to work well...
What do you think about that????
fun is not a straight line
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Chris Eggers
- Germany
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I said it before, I do not lilke the idea of a footblock, I think it is dangerous and has not to be on a skateboard. Griptape has to be on there and nothing else, besides I think it is dangerous when you have to jump off.
I use a piece of rough metal beltsander griptape on my decks where the feet are. It works well. Besides, keeping your feet in position also comes with practice.
I use a piece of rough metal beltsander griptape on my decks where the feet are. It works well. Besides, keeping your feet in position also comes with practice.
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Keith Hollien
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There is nothing wrong with surf stance with the right board. I ride it and have been slalom skateboarding since 1976, when I taught myself to slalom. It is more what feels comfortable to an individual than anything else.
Attaching a piece of wood or whatever to the top of your board is not the safest thing to do. Grip tape has always worked for me. I would not want something on my board that might have my foot hang up on when I need to bail. If you do fall try to knee slide, but learn how to first.
If you want to find a board for surf stance, you should look at RoeRacing's Keith Hollien Signature Series. You can find pictures of the Series in the Board forum under RoeRacing and Keith Hollien. I am not the only person riding my boards with success. If anybody has any questions about my Series feel free to contact me. Contact info is in the Roe forum under my Series of boards.
Later Keith, Teams Radikal & RoeRacing.
Attaching a piece of wood or whatever to the top of your board is not the safest thing to do. Grip tape has always worked for me. I would not want something on my board that might have my foot hang up on when I need to bail. If you do fall try to knee slide, but learn how to first.
If you want to find a board for surf stance, you should look at RoeRacing's Keith Hollien Signature Series. You can find pictures of the Series in the Board forum under RoeRacing and Keith Hollien. I am not the only person riding my boards with success. If anybody has any questions about my Series feel free to contact me. Contact info is in the Roe forum under my Series of boards.
Later Keith, Teams Radikal & RoeRacing.
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Benjamin Felgerolle
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Skyhooks
Chris,
I don't see how a single piece of 1 cm of wood can be dangerous... It's not a skyhook... I have skyhooks on another board, it's usefull to jump sidewalks, but I admit it's quite dangerous... But just a footblock???
< Topic split: discussion on cost of boards in Europe moved to a separate thread. /Jani >
I don't see how a single piece of 1 cm of wood can be dangerous... It's not a skyhook... I have skyhooks on another board, it's usefull to jump sidewalks, but I admit it's quite dangerous... But just a footblock???
< Topic split: discussion on cost of boards in Europe moved to a separate thread. /Jani >
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Bradley Elfman
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- Location: atlanta
stance, griptape for feet, making cones 3 & 4
deleted
Last edited by Bradley Elfman on Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Keith Hollien
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Brad,
What type of equipment are you using? Proper equipment selection is very important. I was also wondering why 4ft. With cones at 4 ft it is very important to be able to process cones fast enough to make the cones. You always want to look ahead. It is impossible to look at the cone you are turning around with any speed at all. You should ALWAYS look ahead. How many cones ahead that you can process will depend on your skill level. There are times when I might be looking at the end of the course at one specific cone and other times I might be looking only 10-15 cones ahead.
Keith, Teams Radikal & Pocket Pistols & Oust.
What type of equipment are you using? Proper equipment selection is very important. I was also wondering why 4ft. With cones at 4 ft it is very important to be able to process cones fast enough to make the cones. You always want to look ahead. It is impossible to look at the cone you are turning around with any speed at all. You should ALWAYS look ahead. How many cones ahead that you can process will depend on your skill level. There are times when I might be looking at the end of the course at one specific cone and other times I might be looking only 10-15 cones ahead.
Keith, Teams Radikal & Pocket Pistols & Oust.
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Bradley Elfman
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:14 am
- Location: atlanta
feet position
post deleted
Last edited by Bradley Elfman on Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:40 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Erin Riffel
- Erin
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