no joke ?
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<center></center>
<center>hey ya
</center>
<center>hey ya
</center>
Last edited by Rick Stanziale on Thu Jan 29, 2004 10:08 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Well ETB I think you should make the trip to the USA to compete this year. Don't yell "Fire" in a crowded theatre over here- that too is illegal. But you'll find in Germany whatever isn't allowed is forbidden, and in the USA what ever isn't forbidden is allowed. The USA has had the luxury of not being under constant attack, and that has made our security lax. I have complained for years about Boston's airport security before 9/11, I had no problem bringing a 5.5 inch pocket knife aboard on my person just prior to 9/11, for the most part only guns and machete like knives were not allowed. Now for a period the country is hyper sensitive- mostly because of the news media and political perception- there are few rules though and most are common sense.
Trains are great- but they have not been supported enough in the USA. Also suburban sprawl in the USA makes having a car sometimes necessary if you are not traveling from city center to city center.
I took a train down to Charleston from NYC and train rides of more than 6 hours make me think of how I should have taken a plane instead. Also Planes don't kill wildlife while trying to cross the tracks- and they make every attempt to avoid hitting birds.
It all comes down to when our contries developed- the USA was many years behind Europe, my family owned ELLIS railroad which made locomotives for the North during the Civil war and then made locomotives to open up the West. But populations were too sparse at first to make locomotives cost efficient.
So can we expect you to make one of the races this year on the East Coast? Its only a 6 hour flight. take the chunnel and look at this deal.
http://dir.travelzoo.com/Air.asp?intCat ... &id=137082
Trains are great- but they have not been supported enough in the USA. Also suburban sprawl in the USA makes having a car sometimes necessary if you are not traveling from city center to city center.
I took a train down to Charleston from NYC and train rides of more than 6 hours make me think of how I should have taken a plane instead. Also Planes don't kill wildlife while trying to cross the tracks- and they make every attempt to avoid hitting birds.
It all comes down to when our contries developed- the USA was many years behind Europe, my family owned ELLIS railroad which made locomotives for the North during the Civil war and then made locomotives to open up the West. But populations were too sparse at first to make locomotives cost efficient.
So can we expect you to make one of the races this year on the East Coast? Its only a 6 hour flight. take the chunnel and look at this deal.
http://dir.travelzoo.com/Air.asp?intCat ... &id=137082
Last edited by John Gilmour on Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
One good turn deserves another
john gilmour
john gilmour
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In this version it goes so far, you can get a cup of tea, come back and watch the landing. And, unlike the other versions, this game doesn't favor skippers.
3577.5
3577.5
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Hey have you guys seen Bradyscabs latest business venture?
http://www.jadeandpearl.com/sea_pearls.shtml
Spongebob bloodypants.
I hear after its used it makes a wonderful tea.
http://www.jadeandpearl.com/sea_pearls.shtml
Spongebob bloodypants.
I hear after its used it makes a wonderful tea.
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Ever wonder where Mr Maxwell got his nickname?
http://www.dceagle.com/
And don`t be alarmed, calling him chicken doesn`t offend him.
http://www.dceagle.com/
And don`t be alarmed, calling him chicken doesn`t offend him.
Got ants?
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Oh, I see Brady has been doing some research for his big trip to DC for the Gathering!Brady Mitchell wrote:Ever wonder where Mr Maxwell got his nickname?
http://www.dceagle.com/
And don`t be alarmed, calling him chicken doesn`t offend him.
Your destination choice is definitely different than most tourists.
This does explain your loving gaze in the photo of you and Wes.
Unfortunately, judging by the look on WesE's face, I don't think the feeling is mutual.
No wonder you wanna race me. You really are a glutton for punishment!
The whole 'Scabs' thing is now also crystal clear.
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ahhhh, I quit
After hours of beating that poor little tuxedo'd bird
(323.5) version #1 I got a really good bounce.
(588.7) version #2
(3603.1) version #3
(323.5) version #1 I got a really good bounce.
(588.7) version #2
(3603.1) version #3
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John,John Gilmour wrote:Well ETB I think you should make the trip to the USA to compete this year. [...] can we expect you to make one of the races this year on the East Coast? Its only a 6 hour flight. take the chunnel and look at this deal.
Thanx for the invitation, i do not think i will do it this year,
one: do not forget i am a beginner skater, i've been a skater for a little bit more than two years now, i'm still a beginner, i haven't ever raced yet at all, i should take opportunities for one or two first tries before doing the french skateboard ambassador myself
two: i'm broke
three: if i was to do it i would take an expensive ticket, last time i flew over the atlantic the plane really kind of fell apart, the took us back to England (oxygens masks on), repared thru the night, and board us back again on the same plane, i may not be thru with flying, but i'd think twice before flying on a charter again (Flying with a terrified crew makes you think twice about it.)
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Congratulations Slappy! To start with such triumphs, to attack the inocent and the weak with such a twist, wit and sarcasm, and so solidly tread on the clueless, I look forward with fond anticipation to the time when the best slaloming graphic artist alive will call his first oficial real-life grudge match victory, and the multitudes will throng thither.
Vlad i K, the other white a##hole.
Vlad i K, the other white a##hole.
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Here's the Secret.Vlad Popov wrote:Congratulations Slappy! To start with such triumphs, to attack the inocent and the weak with such a twist, wit and sarcasm, and so solidly tread on the clueless, I look forward with fond anticipation to the time when the best slaloming graphic artist alive will call his first oficial real-life grudge match victory, and the multitudes will throng thither.
Vlad i K, the other white a##hole.
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Vlad,Vlad Popov wrote:Etienne, you haffta get er ass ovah here at least ones. No one cares about your slalom skills. Over half of the US population is broke, and more and more people get loaded with tranquilizers before they load the plane. If you make it your goal, anything is possible.
i came to America several times, i stayed in Salem Mass, and in a cabin by a lake in the Maine, more recently i stayed in Toronto (and i visited the charming city of Buffalo )
my sister in law used to live in LA, until a few monthes ago. And i lived with a girl from LA when i was in Art School. Also One of my very close friends was from Arkansas.
i never visited the west coast actually (only visited LA thru James Ellroy, Dash, Chandler, Polanski and so on.)
To answer another post about polution:
However benign subburban lifestyle is, peanuts priced gas energy policy that comes together with it knows its last days, resulting wether from a set of courageous decisions or more probably from the fall of the main provider. Gazoline more expensive than beer must be hard to imagine for you, a dramatic change.
Of course pollution resulting from a collective electric vehicule is incomparably lower that the one resulting from a single car. A TGV carries 800 people over300km/h.
Vlad, when do we get your french-style cyberslalom times ?
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Terrorist warning
etienne de Bary wrote:
Now I think maybe Etienne should stay in France. Exactly how does he know what "efficient terrorists" do or do not avoid? Either he's been attending terrorist meetings or he's claiming to know something that he couldn't possibly know. Either way he's now shed light on himself as a threat.if there was a bomb, he wouldn't tell, efficient terrorists, like efficient customs agents, avoid all kind of show off.
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Did you really mean that Andy?Andy Bittner wrote:Now I think maybe Etienne should stay in France. Exactly how does he know what "efficient terrorists" do or do not avoid? Either he's been attending terrorist meetings or he's claiming to know something that he couldn't possibly know. Either way he's now shed light on himself as a threat.
I can see myself assuming the same thing. Had some of those 15 that flew the planes into the WTC said something before they boarded their flights, maybe all of this could have been avoided? Or maybe it was his grammar and it didn't come out quite right but in so and so terms, you just called etienne a terrorist?
Got ants?
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Did somebody say BOMB?
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Re: Terrorist warning
WAOW !Andy Bittner wrote:etienne de Bary wrote:
Now I think maybe Etienne should stay in France. Exactly how does he know what "efficient terrorists" do or do not avoid? Either he's been attending terrorist meetings or he's claiming to know something that he couldn't possibly know. Either way he's now shed light on himself as a threat.if there was a bomb, he wouldn't tell, efficient terrorists, like efficient customs agents, avoid all kind of show off.
watch out ! the reds are coming ! arrrhhgg
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Re: Terrorist warning
This really brings a new light to understand the problem, for sure.Andy Bittner wrote:etienne de Bary wrote:
Either way he's now shed light on himself as a threat.if there was a bomb, he wouldn't tell, efficient terrorists, like efficient customs agents, avoid all kind of show off.
Andy, be certain i have compassion for you.
Terrorists do not "shed light on themselves", a child over 3 of age would understand that, or is that specific to european children ?
Last edited by Etienne de Bary on Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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reading list
Andy's post actually brings us back to the point : fear from the words "bomb" "terrorist" etc. comes because these things are pure abstractions, one is afraid of the names of things while they have no idea what the actual thing is. And that explain the case we are talking about (putting a young guy in jail because he was irritated being hasseld by a stupid stewardess). Of course if one of the actors in this had had any idea what these words exactly mean, nothing of that would have happened.
So i propose a reading list, so those who are interested can understand how a person undercover behaves, and a bit of things about a "batlle in the shades".
- Of course the basic, the whole corpus of the master between the masters: John le Carré, anyone should have read it, starting from the most recents, then going back to the classics. Recent "the Constant Garder" is a jewel, "the Tailor of Panama" is of personal interest to any US citisen. there is no weak point in the corpus except early "Black Candles". hours and hours of pure pleasure.
- Philip Roth "Operation Shylock" is great too
that's all in english
i'll add the french Maurice G. Dantec "Babylon Babies" which precisely points how secret intelligence and the real world constantly slip into one another, resulting in violence, and lots of other things too actually.
Fiction lets one show a theatre that could not be told as real, on the documentary side Robert Baer stuff is rather stupefying too, but he's not a writer the way the previous are.
If you need more, come back to me
So i propose a reading list, so those who are interested can understand how a person undercover behaves, and a bit of things about a "batlle in the shades".
- Of course the basic, the whole corpus of the master between the masters: John le Carré, anyone should have read it, starting from the most recents, then going back to the classics. Recent "the Constant Garder" is a jewel, "the Tailor of Panama" is of personal interest to any US citisen. there is no weak point in the corpus except early "Black Candles". hours and hours of pure pleasure.
- Philip Roth "Operation Shylock" is great too
that's all in english
i'll add the french Maurice G. Dantec "Babylon Babies" which precisely points how secret intelligence and the real world constantly slip into one another, resulting in violence, and lots of other things too actually.
Fiction lets one show a theatre that could not be told as real, on the documentary side Robert Baer stuff is rather stupefying too, but he's not a writer the way the previous are.
If you need more, come back to me
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There was actually warnings but actually no-one would want to hear them. Read Robert Baer: even the public dept is, or was, financed by Saoudian moneyBrady Mitchell wrote:Had some of those 15 that flew the planes into the WTC said something before they boarded their flights, maybe all of this could have been avoided?
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...you guys are definately getting somewhere.
I don't look at it like "French and or American" attitude when thinking about terror.
I look at the problem as a global citizen. What you say, I don't apply the whole of France to what you say nor should you apply the whole of America by what I say and certainly when we voice our opinion over again about a subject we do allow people to see what we think.
We are pretty free here in America to do as we please, our country is definately progressive in those liberties that we are afforded.
If you look at the nationalities of the terrorists of the last 20 years, you will see that almost all of them come from 3 countries and their religion? Well, I don't think that all people from that religion are bad and the same goes from their nationality. But as a security person, I would definately use that information.
This is informative reading to me. I like seeing what you guys have to say and I urge you to keep balanced.
I don't look at it like "French and or American" attitude when thinking about terror.
I look at the problem as a global citizen. What you say, I don't apply the whole of France to what you say nor should you apply the whole of America by what I say and certainly when we voice our opinion over again about a subject we do allow people to see what we think.
We are pretty free here in America to do as we please, our country is definately progressive in those liberties that we are afforded.
If you look at the nationalities of the terrorists of the last 20 years, you will see that almost all of them come from 3 countries and their religion? Well, I don't think that all people from that religion are bad and the same goes from their nationality. But as a security person, I would definately use that information.
This is informative reading to me. I like seeing what you guys have to say and I urge you to keep balanced.
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Re: reading list
Actually, he is not in jail because he was irritated. He is in jail because he chose to use a bomb threat (or a joke about a bomb) as his method of expressing his irritation. Had he chosen some other means (e.g. telling the stewardess she was stupid), he might not be in jail.etienne de Bary wrote: And that explain the case we are talking about (putting a young guy in jail because he was irritated being hasseld by a stupid stewardess).
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Well Adam, i do not share your enthusiasm on any point:
- i do not think this topic could go very much lower, nor more off topic (it wasn't meant to be about WTC), and i am a bit concerned about being accused here, since must of security work is actually done by search robots... ... ... no i will not comment it again
So since Frank Moulet's case seems to have ended its ubuesque course we could end this topic too.
- religion, you're not talking about Frank Moulet's religion, ... so you are talking about another religion that may actually be a bit unfamiliar to you, maybe...
How many pure wasp terrorists do you think i could find ? There has been terrorists in all the countries in this world, wanna bet ? And i wouldn't say all religions, because i'm not sure, but all monotheist religions, for sure.
There is no religious or "national" specificity to make one a terrorist, terrorism results from specific political situations, when those situations are set up they emerge, and, like the Hydra, the harder you beat them the faster they grow and multiply.
Let's end this here, OK ?
- i do not think this topic could go very much lower, nor more off topic (it wasn't meant to be about WTC), and i am a bit concerned about being accused here, since must of security work is actually done by search robots... ... ... no i will not comment it again
So since Frank Moulet's case seems to have ended its ubuesque course we could end this topic too.
- religion, you're not talking about Frank Moulet's religion, ... so you are talking about another religion that may actually be a bit unfamiliar to you, maybe...
How many pure wasp terrorists do you think i could find ? There has been terrorists in all the countries in this world, wanna bet ? And i wouldn't say all religions, because i'm not sure, but all monotheist religions, for sure.
There is no religious or "national" specificity to make one a terrorist, terrorism results from specific political situations, when those situations are set up they emerge, and, like the Hydra, the harder you beat them the faster they grow and multiply.
Let's end this here, OK ?
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Examples
In the first place, I am not one of the people who shut themselves in during the Washington D.C. sniper incident, even though the first five shots taken in the sniper spree were in the neighborhood where I was raised and at places where I can be found with considerable frequency. However, that's not what we're discussing here...
To be clear, I do NOT actually suspect that edB is a terrorist, has ever considered being a terrorist or even consciously knows any terrorists. My point was to illustrate just how complicated the whole situation can be, when we have to consider the words that people choose... and we HAVE TO consider the words people use. (Considering the words I used in my first post: I did NOT call etienne a terrorist. The whole statement began with "I think" and "maybe", and was chock full of "either-or"s. I'm not paranoid and I'm definitely not stupid.)
Etienne de Barry made a definitive, very confident statement about the proper behavior of "efficient terrorists".
I think that etienne's statement didn't come from any actual knowledge or experience of what a real, trained terrorist thinks, does or says, but is rather made on logical presumption. Right now, I'm going to make a similar presumption. I don't know etienne or have any real knowledge or experience of what the real etienne de Barry thinks, does or says, but the logic in my head says that he's just puffing up, trying to sound convincing and otherwise blowing smoke and making pronouncements to try to make his point about a frenchman, who is being held for making a false scare (or whatever the charge is). Frankly, if this guy got dirty looks from a flight attendant after an extended use of the lavatory, and used his self-righteous indignation over that as an excuse to stand up and proclaim at the end of the flight, "I guess the bomb I placed in the bathroom didn't go off!", he deserves to be detained. Much the same thing would happen to any red-blooded citizen of the U.S., if he acted in such a manner.
My point is that etienne used a statement of fact about the behavior of efficient terrorists to exonerate someone he doesn't even know, just so he can remain an indignant, self-righteous, angry, poor, put-upon Frenchman. In my own mind I have exonerated etienne's statement of fact about the behavior of efficient terrorists, based on a similar presumption. So... what do we have? Two presumptions. I would be VERY distressed if I found that those truly responsible for our national security felt free to make similar presumptions, and I would now feel partially culpable if etienne did turn out to be a terrorist. When does it all stop?! When all the FACTS are in.
Let some terrorist crash a jet into the Champs Elysee on Bastille Day, and then let someone make airborne comments about bombs on jets over France, and etienne'll probably end up being glad that people like that are detained, fully investigated and only released when every party is completely convinced that there is NO threat, and etienne might even possibly agree that anyone who commits such an act has opened themselves up to whatever happens to them as a result. Frankly, the guy who made the statement is lucky the rest of the people on the airplane didn't just get up and beat the crap out of him.
To be clear, I do NOT actually suspect that edB is a terrorist, has ever considered being a terrorist or even consciously knows any terrorists. My point was to illustrate just how complicated the whole situation can be, when we have to consider the words that people choose... and we HAVE TO consider the words people use. (Considering the words I used in my first post: I did NOT call etienne a terrorist. The whole statement began with "I think" and "maybe", and was chock full of "either-or"s. I'm not paranoid and I'm definitely not stupid.)
Etienne de Barry made a definitive, very confident statement about the proper behavior of "efficient terrorists".
I think that etienne's statement didn't come from any actual knowledge or experience of what a real, trained terrorist thinks, does or says, but is rather made on logical presumption. Right now, I'm going to make a similar presumption. I don't know etienne or have any real knowledge or experience of what the real etienne de Barry thinks, does or says, but the logic in my head says that he's just puffing up, trying to sound convincing and otherwise blowing smoke and making pronouncements to try to make his point about a frenchman, who is being held for making a false scare (or whatever the charge is). Frankly, if this guy got dirty looks from a flight attendant after an extended use of the lavatory, and used his self-righteous indignation over that as an excuse to stand up and proclaim at the end of the flight, "I guess the bomb I placed in the bathroom didn't go off!", he deserves to be detained. Much the same thing would happen to any red-blooded citizen of the U.S., if he acted in such a manner.
My point is that etienne used a statement of fact about the behavior of efficient terrorists to exonerate someone he doesn't even know, just so he can remain an indignant, self-righteous, angry, poor, put-upon Frenchman. In my own mind I have exonerated etienne's statement of fact about the behavior of efficient terrorists, based on a similar presumption. So... what do we have? Two presumptions. I would be VERY distressed if I found that those truly responsible for our national security felt free to make similar presumptions, and I would now feel partially culpable if etienne did turn out to be a terrorist. When does it all stop?! When all the FACTS are in.
Let some terrorist crash a jet into the Champs Elysee on Bastille Day, and then let someone make airborne comments about bombs on jets over France, and etienne'll probably end up being glad that people like that are detained, fully investigated and only released when every party is completely convinced that there is NO threat, and etienne might even possibly agree that anyone who commits such an act has opened themselves up to whatever happens to them as a result. Frankly, the guy who made the statement is lucky the rest of the people on the airplane didn't just get up and beat the crap out of him.
Last edited by Andy Bittner on Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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All jokes aside
Actually, Mike, I'm curious about the story of the Englishwoman that you've referenced. Any links or additional data you could provide would be appreciated.
I don't like blatant injustice any more than the next guy and would be curious to know just how similar the two situations were.
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I wonder how many Iraqis complained when we invaded France to free the French from a tyrant?
I don't like blatant injustice any more than the next guy and would be curious to know just how similar the two situations were.
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I wonder how many Iraqis complained when we invaded France to free the French from a tyrant?
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Re: Examples
Andy Bittner wrote:To be clear, I do NOT actually suspect that edB is a terrorist, has ever considered being a terrorist or even consciously knows any terrorists.
Nice Andy, any brain donnor in your first degrees ?Andy Bittner wrote:Now I think maybe Etienne should stay in France. Exactly how does he know what "efficient terrorists" do or do not avoid? Either he's been attending terrorist meetings or he's claiming to know something that he couldn't possibly know. Either way he's now shed light on himself as a threat.
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Re: All jokes aside
A similar point (less incoherent) has been answered before, when Arab was sharing your president's enthusiasm after "end of operations" in Irak, a bit more than one year ago...Andy Bittner wrote:I wonder how many Iraqis complained when we invaded France to free the French from a tyrant ?
Adam, do i consider that you want me to answer this ?
Adam do you want to lock this topic, and i ask you to remove the posts where my name is associated with the accusation, in case i would have the occasion to answer John and Vlad's invitations in the future.
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What the hell does that mean???
"Nice Andy, any brain donnor in your first degrees ?"
Can anyone translate that into English?
Thanks.
Can anyone translate that into English?
Thanks.
Dan Mitchell, aka PA Dan