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Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 7:16 pm
by Wesley Tucker
Ok, I'm hip to a spec class. IROC proved there's a certain appeal to having everyone in the same thing and seeing who's really the best "driver," not just the guy who can afford all the new stuff.

My only question is AVAILABILITY. Let's just suppose I crawl off my warm couch and head up the interstate to an Outlaw Race. When I get there, do I find a bag full of Black Hills and I can grab one to race on? Or is it a case of I can race MY Black Hill board if I decide to bring it along? (No, I don't have one.) Or are there going to be two or three Black Hills laying around and the owner is consenting to let me ride his in a couple of heats? And if some owner-supplied boards are the answer, does the owner get to race HIS OWN BOARD in a spec class heat? In other words, would there be a rule that if two Black Hill board owners face off in a spec race, would they have to trade boards and ride each other's equipment? Have to keep this "level playing field" level, you know. :smile:

I hope no one takes this as a complaint because it isn't one at all. Just a question as to how this "spec class" racing is organized. After all, Brian is advertising it as a definite event. Better to maybe thrash out how it will work here than wait til a Saturday afternoon with daylight waning. Again, don't expect me up north before Easter, but you never can tell what a coincidence of a warm weekend and winter race might lead me to do!

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:07 pm
by Slappy Maxwell
yes, you can race your own board.
yes, you can borrow a board.
yes, you can borrow more than one person's board.

as long it is a spec board...yes.

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:33 pm
by Brian Parsons
Yes, to all of your concerns. I have 4 Bahne Black Hills that Jack was nice enough to sell me at a great deal to get things started. However, I am hoping that there is a lot of interest in Spec racing and then everyone can buy his or her very own Black Hill. The whole idea is to create an affordable arena where no one has an equipment advantage or disadvantage. Also, to make it more affordable for newbies to start racing. And to get my favorite skateboard company some exposure.

The only adjustments allowed to these boards will be bushing changes (However, no altering the stock truck) and no more than 6 degrees of wedge in the front or back. Also, any bearing can be used. Trying to restrict bearings would be too difficult to monitor and enforce.

Wheels on the Black Hill are 78A La Costas. However, 77A Stingers can be replaced for these since they are on the same mold. And there was also the discussion to allow any 78A Hyper Strada Hub based wheel. This would included, Fibrestradas, Comet meteors, Hyper Stradas, Gravity Chrome Classics. All of these are 78A and based on the Strada mold. These wheels are clearly not as fast and grippy as the La Costas and Stingers but they are easily obtainable.

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 9:53 pm
by Noah Heinle
I'm for the spec class and will contribute a board.

Just to confirm:

REQUIRED:
Bahne Black Hill
Tracker B2 baseplates w Fulltrack hangers
78a La Costa or 77a Stingers

OPTIONAL
Any "standard" wedge or riser
Any combo of any bushing
Any bearings


It's the trucks I'm not totally clear on. RTX/s are NOT options, right?

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:39 pm
by Guest
Can I ride one of Vlad's planks in the spec class, that is enough of a equipment/performance disadvantage to make up the difference....hahahahaha

(sorry Vlad i couldn't resist)

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:47 pm
by Vlad Popov

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 2:43 am
by Wesley Tucker
I'm in the mood for being argumentative (me? when?)

Here's a neat little conundrum that relates to another issue that also got a lot of airplay with the DC Crew. Remember when Vlad suggested a 100-cone challenge? Sure you do. It wasn't that long ago. Well, my contribution to the event was the suggestion that only a 100-cone clean run should count. (It's all coming back to you now, right?) Well, that was slapped down immediately by the more aggressive racers in the group. A cone penalty was preferable to any demand that a racer SLOW DOWN in order to make the course. 'nuff said about that.

Now here is the definition of a spec class race: get on a board that's just like everyone elses, little wedge, 78A wheels, ride through a course and record your times. So who here is going to SLOW DOWN enough to make the adjustment to a piece of equipment that may not be cheap, but certainly isn't on the same par as a Roe or a Turner? Or are racers going to charge the hill with the same abandon on the spec board as they would on their usual, high-tech powerful racing board?

This isn't a condemnation of spec clas racing. Far from it. I think it sounds like a blast. My question, though, is why are racers willing to adjust to a spec class board but completely unwilling to adjust to a unique type of 100-cone course? Is anyone going to pump as hard, turn as hard and push as hard on a Black Hill board as they would on a Bottle Rocket set up with TTCs, RTXs and Cambrias? And if the adjustment is made to ride the Black Hill, why is it then impossible to consider an adjustment to ride a course under certain conditions? (i.e., 100 cones clean?)

It just sounds like a double standard. Adjustments are expected to ride in a spec class, but it's completely out of the question and unmentionable to suggest an adjustment in a 100 cone course.

(It's raining, my shoulder hurts and I have nothing better to do . . . that's why!)

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:54 pm
by Brian Parsons
Noah, the trucks for the Fulltrack hangers on the B2 baseplates.

WT, I am not sure how to answer your question. Except to say that the DC guys are open to trying out anything and entertaining any idea or new way to do things.

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:58 pm
by Brian Parsons
Wes, I think tat the reason no one wants to make a rule that the 100 cone course should be run clean is that it would discourage participation since only a few of the best riders would be able to make the course and record a time.

Spec racing is just the opposite, it is designed to encourage participation by creating a beginner friendly format.

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2002 8:20 pm
by Tim Keasbey
Hope everyone had a good holiday or a good Wednesday however you look at it.

Back to racing... I am awaiting the Black Hill I ordered and have high hopes for the spec class. What a great way to make the sport open for new riders. I am totally stoked to start racing again.

Best to all, Timbobwei

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:46 pm
by Brian Parsons
Great Tim!!! I have been riding the Black Hill and it is a great board. Jack also sent one of the new Bahne T-shirts that will go to a lucky Spec class racer at this weekends Outlaw race.

This weekend everyone will know what I am talking about. Pray for dry weather.

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:09 pm
by Noah Heinle
Curious to know for sure EXACTLY what 'spec' was run at the last DC race. I know I asked the same question above and was answered, but the first real spec class race has been run since then.

Did anyone feel any big differences in boards due to different bushings? Did anyone actually change around wedges or risers? Those are the only 2 changes that can be made, right? (bearings too, I know)

Were any rules discussed or changed? I see Bahne is now selling the BlackHill with RTX/S now. Will that change our specs?

I've got a new Black Hill and am psyched on this format. I unloaded all my 77/78a wheels in the fall though. Anyone have extras?

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:21 pm
by Brian Parsons
Noah, All of the boards we used in the first spec race were the Fulltrack hangers with B2 baseplates. I thought the boards worked really well. All had 78A LaCostas.

We wedged the front and one board had a wedge in the back. We also switched bushings. Bushings made a big difference.

I have plenty of 77/78A wheels for you.

The only person that did'nt like the boards was WesE. And we all know why.

Posted: Thu Jan 30, 2003 7:22 pm
by Brian Parsons
Also we did not change any rules. Only adjustments are bushings, wedges and bearings.

Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2003 4:27 am
by Jason Herd
I got mine a few weeks ago and tried it with the standard setup. within minutes I had swapped in some bones cores soft bushings and also swapped both risers for a set of angled risers that I got from longskate.com. Huge difference. I wanna get some ceramic bones bearings which i can get at cost from a buddy who owns the skateshop in my hometown. I set one wheel up with these babies just for an experiment and the speed distance and time spinning was like night and day. The LaCostas which my board came with are not the spec wheels though. they were out of the standard ones so jack sent me the next harder wheels. I will need to buy some lacostas which are supposed to be on the board. Anyone got a set of brandnew ones they can sell me? When's the next race here in DC.

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2003 3:00 pm
by Brian Parsons
Jason, I have got you covered on wheels.

I would like to open the debate for the use of RTX/RTS trucks for the spec class races.

All of the boards I have now have B2 and those trucks will still be acceptable. However, several guys have asked me to also allow the RTX/S trackers.

As always majority will rule. Post up you opinion.

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2003 3:34 pm
by Matthew Wilson
On 2003-01-30 13:09, Noah Heinle wrote:
Did anyone feel any big differences in boards due to different bushings?

I've got a new Black Hill and am psyched on this format. I unloaded all my 77/78a wheels in the fall though. Anyone have extras?
I have only been able to attend 1 of the spec races with that amazing crew in D.C. (thanks, guys! I had a blast riding with you all), but I will say this about the spec race:
Bushings made a huge difference for me. If I remember correctly, some of us were afraid to run the decks with those cheap, stupid, crappy white stock bushings that Tracker sends along with their trucks. I threw some Stimulators on one of the decks, and I think everyone agreed that there was a significant performance difference.

I personally feel that the best possible set up should be found (this should include bushings and risers), and then name that as the spec--no exceptions!
Nearly EVERYONE here spends more time changing our bushings around than any other piece of equipment. That leads me to believe that bushings do in fact make a significant difference, and should be as standard in a spec race as trucks, deck, and wheels.

As far as going all out: I don't hink many people were giving their all, and rightly so. I think JG named that as injury factor number 13 or something. Unfamiliar equipment can be unpredeictable.

What I like about spec class is that there will be a progression for the first few races, where confidence in the equipment must be built. Then, I think that we will see some great racing when we see people going all out on the spec boards.

_________________
<a href="http://www.vasocreta.com/boston_slalom/" target="_blank">www.vasocreta.com/boston_slalom/</a>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: matthew wilson on 2003-02-20 09:36 ]</font>

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:10 pm
by Noah Heinle
My vote is to have at least one race on the original spec before changing it. I know you guys did the first spec race already, but if I'm not mistaken, attendance was pretty low. I've built a board for this class. It hasn't seen the light of day yet. I'm up for the RTX/S change, but I'd like to try what I got first. Also, because this is a SPEC class, only one truck should be allowed. That is the original intent. Brian, when you say that fulltracks/B2's will still be acceptable, are you saying that I could be on the line against WesE when he's on RTx/S and I'm on Fulls? That ain't spec racing.

Posted: Thu Feb 20, 2003 11:27 pm
by Vlad Popov
I ain’t racen’ E! on Fulls if E!’s gonna be on RTs and stuff. I ain’t no fool to loose to E! !
E! has become a measure of success for so many. No one else is compared to self as often! Loosing to E! on any equipment will be a national catastrophe on a global level for some people.
Ok, my vote is this: Allow RTs to be raced against the Fulls. The faster guys can stick to the fulls. If they ain’t- no biggie-to hell with them! Noah, we might have a gentlemen’s agreement with you and other interested parties about racing the Fulls. It aint’ a big deal. NASTAR and F1 we are not.
BUDLIGHT G3…. Winston Henry J. Slalom Clinic. AT&T slalom arena, Camel Cyber Slalom Challenge for the mentally challenged…..
Back to the topic.
And to address Noah’s concern, have at least one or two “Fulls” races before the rules are changed.

I have RTs and I have Fulls. RTs seems (are) faster on some courses, but on our regular courses- I don’t think it really matters. If it is a disadvantage- then good!- more challenge ----> more incentive to work harder.


White-trash original Tracker bushings were good enough to score Jani a double victory at the last Swiss race. But his weight could have been a factor (it was, but you know…). Bushing performance might be (is) weight-dependant, and therefore, bushing durrometers shouldn’t (can’t) be made standard for everyone. There seems to be (ia) a strong preference for Dooh-Dooh and Simoolatahs around here, but there are actually over two bushings “camps”. Getting an agreement on one kind of bushing seems (is) impossible.

You know what? Pee-Vees could make a good spec-class truck! There is one kind of bushing there and "everyone" :smile: has them now.

Vlad.

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 4:31 pm
by Matthew Wilson
White-trash original Tracker bushings were good enough to score Jani a double victory at the last Swiss race. But his weight could have been a factor (it was, but you know…). Bushing performance might be (is) weight-dependant, and therefore, bushing durrometers shouldn’t (can’t) be made standard for everyone. There seems to be (ia) a strong preference for Dooh-Dooh and Simoolatahs around here, but there are actually over two bushings “camps”. Getting an agreement on one kind of bushing seems (is) impossible.

You know what? Pee-Vees could make a good spec-class truck! There is one kind of bushing there and "everyone" :smile: has them now.

Vlad.
You're right on that bushing thing, Vlad. I guess the only way to ensure fair advantage is to make sure that everyone racing either has their own spec board, dialed in with the bushings they like, or that folks are borrowing decks from others with the bushings they like.

Problem solved.

At the spec race that I took part in, I never even got to race the deck that I put the Stimulator's on. I got stuck on the Tracker, white-trash bushing board. But I won't complain since I won a cool Bahne t-shirt for most improved time and still came in next to last place. Go figure.

And Vlad, I respect you, hell...I actually like you. But don't give me any of that crap about certain bushings being good enough for some dude (Not to say that Jani is JUSTsome dude, but you catch my drift) who won some event. I don't give a poo-poo about the equipment that some other person is riding. Great if it works for them. In my experience (little though it may be) those white trackers suck the big fat monkey. I like my cut down Stimulators...oh, wait, I mean YOUR cut down Stimulators...I mean the idea that you passed along to me. doh.

Posted: Fri Feb 21, 2003 5:51 pm
by Curt Kimbel
Let's make the spec board a reliable, good handling, easy to inspect racing platform.

Allow RTX front, RTS rear. Unlimited Bushings, wedges and bearings.

The RTX/RTS combo is far superior, inexpensive, and easy to get (they come with the board if requested).

Bushings and wedges are cheap and provide for a little tinkering for those so inclined.

If we go with the RTX/RTS now, before too many boards are purchased, we can upgrade with little impact. Change will be harder in the future.

Curt

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: curt kimbel on 2003-02-21 14:17 ]</font>