DC Winter Outlaw Series

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:11 am

"essence (n.) 1. The quality or QUALITIES of a thing that give it its identity; the intrinsic or indispensible PROPERTIES of a thing." (My emphaisis.)

In other words, the ESSENCE of anything is many parts, not just one specific element you can hang your hat on. Whether its push starts, turning or pumping, there are many intrinsic and indispensable qualities that make slalom skateboard racing. Wes' argument that push starts are not a slalom technique is wrong. My assertion that push starts are the essence of slalom racing is correct.

[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2002-12-18 05:14 ]

Jack Smith · Post by **Jack Smith** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 2:47 pm

Thank you Mr. Webster...I mean Mr Wes. I was just giving you a hard time.
Back in the 70's Paul Dunn used to tape a picture of Bobby Piercy to the bottom of his Turner, below it he would write

"Speed is the essence".

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 3:00 pm

I posted at 5:11 EST
It looks like Jack posted at 5:47 PST

Jack, you're gonna have to get up a lot earlier to beat this rabbit! :razz:

[ This Message was edited by: Wesley Tucker on 2002-12-18 09:39 ]

Slappy Maxwell · Post by **Slappy Maxwell** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 8:04 pm

On 2002-12-14 00:17, David Riordon wrote:

How about a "Rookie" class for all ages where you decide when it is time to graduate on out. That way the new inexperienced racers get more than just two qualifying runs and cone duty. The Rookie races could be seeded randomly in their own race just so it could be anybody winning the Rookie race that day.

I think more energy and focus should be brought on recruting and Rookies than debating ramps and push starts.

I think the rookie class is a great idea. We saw it at Bob Swartz's race in Front Royal, Va. It would be more competitive and interesting for a rookie.

I think this would be more useful than spec. class racing. The only thing that will be accomplished from spec. class racing is the obvious. Great riders are good on anything they ride.

Another race format that could be a lot of fun that I haven't heard mentioned is a team relay race.
You could have say...three riders of various abilities (pro, open, rookie) to a team. After the first rider hits the finish line the second is able to go. The third rider goes after the second hits the finish.

I noticed they use it in ski racing. They had a 'battle of ski schools' competition on TV a few weeks ago that ran it.

Low tech: you could have someone at the bottom with a flag to raise when one rider crosses the line.

Higher tech: use a timer or timers with displays at the top of the hill. an official could then signal when the next rider can go.

Shooting holes in the idea: yes, the cone heads would have to be extra vigilant and quick. but an easier (loose cone placement, longer/shorter course) could be set to lessen the problem. it could be set so easy that one or two cones is a DQ.

yes, there could be a +/- in the amount time for signaling the next racer. false starts could be hard to judge for the subsequent racers. but i don't think it 's anything that couldn't be worked out.

the rookies (and 'open' riders) would benefit from getting lessons/tips from the other racers on their team and would feel more involved and part of the scene.

i think it would be interesting to try before it gets blasted to hell.

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 9:37 pm

I agree that we should seriously consider a rookie class. And I like the relay idea. All three of our races are designed to make something available for everyone. I think the spec class is going to be fun for everyone, beginners and pros alike.

I can see having a rookie category for all of the race types (Open slalom, Longboard and Spec.) We can implement this immediately. Anyone can be a rookie but once you declare yourself open you must remain open.

Just to give an update on the spec class. We will be using Bahne Black Hill boards with Tracker trucks and Turner LaCosta Wheels 78A. We will race on the same course as the Open slalom. And that is about it. Same course rules as Open slalom. The only adjustment that can be made to the boards is bushings and no more than 6 degrees of wedge.

As for racing on Saturday. I have received several emails that guys want to push back the race until after the holidays. I think that this is probably a good idea.

So, the number 2 race will be on January 4th at Fountain Head Park.

However, I would still like to run cones on Saturday at the Park and Ride. I will be there around noon.

Dave, I must agree to disagree with you on the longboard slalom class. I like the idea that guys can come out with just about any board and compete. They don’t have to worry about different board lengths and wheelbases, IF it is 30 inches or greater axel to axel it is OK. This allows for the largest number of production boards to be used. You can have anything from a Roe Bonita to a Super Tanker. Its kind of like Tee-Ball everybody gets to play.

I want a picture of JG on the bottom of my slalom board. Vlad can you hook me up with a JG model Dalv board.

This forum is great.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 10:19 pm

Dear Dave,
Tight Slalom Morro Bay Race was won on a 36-inch board.
In that context your concerns with a couple of inch difference in the longboard length and wheelbase don’t seem that significant. :razz:

Slappy, great ideas, but where one gets those rookies? :roll:

Brian, now that I can picture it

, I want a Gilmour model myself. I will talk to John in a couple of weeks in VT, take his picture and get busy.
It would also be great if the international slalom "porn star" could sign his model with “Image is the Essence”

This isn’t just a great forum. This is the greatest forum with the biggest number of hits per day. And Jack Smith “arguing” with Wes Tucker here - it’s the best! :lol:

Michel Temoche · Post by **Michel Temoche** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:00 am

Computers make it more complicated? Huh? Forget the spreadsheet keep the abacus! Computers will allow you to easily record and calculate results and standings, give you a backup of the stuff written by hand, so you can check for errors in tabulation and computation. If you need a computer contact me

For enforcing starts on time, have a seperate clock, with a max time between 2 starts of n seconds. Know your place in line.
How about a longboard race and a real longboard race. This is all jmho.

David Riordon · Post by **David Riordon** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 6:17 am

Dave, I must agree to disagree with you on the longboard slalom class. I like the idea that guys can come out with just about any board and compete. They don’t have to worry about different board lengths and wheelbases, IF it is 30 inches or greater axel to axel it is OK. This allows for the largest number of production boards to be used. You can have anything from a Roe Bonita to a Super Tanker. Its kind of like Tee-Ball everybody gets to play.

The Roe Bonita is only 36" long. My hybrid skatepark board is longer than that at 38”.

Chicken calls his 36” Pocket Pistols by its’ right name, the “Super G”. He doesn’t call it the “Pocket Pistol Longboard”. Sure Vlad, the Worlds at Morro Bay was won on a 36” board because 36” is small enough to make even typical slalom courses.

From what I recall, Chaput’s Rough Cut has a huge wheelbase but the board is not long at all and thus not a longboard.

I bet if you re-drill the Gary Cross Comet board, it might even make the wheelbase limit of 30”. Would that be a longboard? I think not.

To settle the longboard debate at the DC Winter Outlaw Series races, I am lobbying for changing the name of the longboard race to “Longboard/Hybrid Slalom Race”. That way Vlad and others can pretend they are riding a longboard in the Longboard/Hybrid Slalom race.

Maybe I will play Tee-Ball with my 60" longboard that will be almost twice as long as many of the "longboards" that will be there.

All is cool though and I will drop the longboard issue on this thread (DC Outlaw Serries thread).

Laters,
DR

Kevin M. Gamble · Post by **Kevin M. Gamble** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:57 am

[quote]
On 2002-12-19 00:00, Michel Temoche wrote:
Computers make it more complicated? Huh? Forget the spreadsheet keep the abacus! Computers will allow you to easily record and calculate results and standings, give you a backup of the stuff written by hand, so you can check for errors in tabulation and computation. If you need a computer contact me

Mitch,
That's what you would think, but it hasn't worked out that way. Maybe you can take the results and plug them into the computer after the race, but during the race, something usually goes wrong with the spreadsheet, power, etc.

Plus, after you take a run and you want to know your time, you have to go hang around behind the computer operator to see how you did. The crowd that grows around the laptop interferes with the computer operator's ability to hear the times from the timer operator, and basically gets in the way. Brian's whiteboard helps everyone to see their times without getting in the way. The whiteboard works because it is large and easy to read from a distance. A large computer display attached to the laptop would do the same thing, but then there is the question of power. If you can come up with a computer setup that works better than the whiteboard, great. Good luck. My money's still on the whiteboard and a little easy math.

[ This Message was edited by: Kevin M. Gamble on 2002-12-19 06:50 ]

Michel Temoche · Post by **Michel Temoche** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:01 pm

I'm not saying to throw away the whiteboard. I'm saying to have a spreadsheet as well. I've got a ten year old laptop with a spresadshhet that I think would work without any glitches. I also sell modern laptops with long battery lives and all you need is a little spreadsheet knowledge to run a race. I know that they used computers at La Costa 01 to tabulate results and their probably using them at all the FCR races.

Cabbage · Post by **Cabbage** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:59 pm

boards longer then 40 inches are longboards. my 40 has a 22 inch wheel base. The longboard I rode for the last longboard race of the summer was 46 inches long with a 26 inch wheel base. I know what qualifies as a longboard seeing that I am a pro longboarder.

on another note, computers rock,

one more thing, what is up for this weekend? points race or practice?????????

cabbage

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:45 pm

Cabbage, this Saturday will be a practice race. I have not ran cones since the day after the Banked Slalom race in NY. So I am really fired up to smoke the locals.

Vlad, LBK has my timer. Hopefully he will make it to Vans tonight.

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 4:01 pm

"Practice Race"?

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Thu Dec 19, 2002 8:40 pm

Well Andy, we can call it practice. But I'm gonna be faster than everyone, to prove that so there are no confusion, I will be recording times. Then I will post them to this forum so everyone will know how much faster I am than everyone else that shows up. I guess I call that a race. No Outlaw points awarded until January 4th.

Dave Sobel · Post by **Dave Sobel** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 7:55 am

Hey Brian,
I will probably come out on Sat.

Eric Moore · Post by **Eric Moore** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:26 pm

I was planning to come up for the race this weekend. Is it still worthwhile to drive 4+ hours for a practice race? Depends on how many racers are practicing. Can we get a head count?

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Fri Dec 20, 2002 9:34 pm

Eric, it’s impossible to get a head count here, but you are not the only one who’ll be driving for 4 hours to get here.
So far, expect to see from 5 to 200 people, probably something in between.

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:03 pm

DC OUTLAW SERIES RACE #2 - Fountainhead regional park.

Longboard will start at 10am. Traditional slalom at noon.

I have all of the boards for the spec class race. I think Noah and Tim have both got there own boards and I will have boards for everyone else. Since this will be the very first Bahne spec race I have a new Bahne T-shirt as a prize.

Anyone in the DC area who has not started slalom racing and would like to check it out this is a great opportunity. The couses are set fairly easy and the hill and surface are very forgiving. Everyone is welcome. And the DC Crew will have extra boards and pads for anyone who wants to give it a try. Drop me a line if you need more information.

I have attached the mapquest map for anyone who still needs directions.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ad ... submit.y=9

Brian P.

Mike Ohm · Post by **Mike Ohm** » Tue Dec 31, 2002 10:02 pm

Brian, one observation from last weekends session. There is alot of salt and debris along the edges of the hills. I know PA Dan has a gas powered leaf blower but I do not if he is coming. I will bring a couple of brooms. Otherwise the hill opposite the hill we ran last year is killer. Duals may be a little tight thought.

See ya

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 7:50 pm

Guys, rain/snow is threatening again. I will post here as soon as I know for sure if it will be dry enough to race. Since Fountainhead is in a wooded area it could take longer than some of the surrounding spots. If Fountainhead is wet we will try the P&R at Occoquan. If the P&R is wet then this weekend is another bust.

I wonder if there will ever, until the end of time, be another dry weekend in the South East? I am open for alternatives. All of the garages we have ridden are to bust prone for a race. Vans is out due to the short notice and frankly, I am tired of pumping on flat.

I’m going go outside and do my “PLEASE DON’T RAIN DANCE”. If anyone else has any voodoo that might work I am not beyond sacrificing chickens, taking up serpents, or any other primitive rituals.

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 8:46 pm

Yeah! I got something to say to this rain! Get this, you, stupid rain, you!

Slappy Maxwell · Post by **Slappy Maxwell** » Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:01 pm

The dances don't seem to be working.
The forecast is now 80% showers on Friday and 30% on Sat AM.

I've found another tunnel that could be useable. It's in Old Town Alexandria just off of Union Street. It's flat and kinda short about 25 cones.

Looks like snowboarding might be a better option.

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:11 pm

I hate to say it but it looks like another wet Outlaw race weekend. So we must move it back until the 11th.

I guess we need a human sacrifice to appease the Gods.... Any volunteers?

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Fri Jan 03, 2003 8:20 pm

oooo...oooo!! I'll vonuteer, as long as I get some pointers on slalom before I am taken!!

Andy Bittner · Post by **Andy Bittner** » Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:25 am

Hmmm... that means Matt lucked his way into being in town on a race weekend, with a Saturday available. How fortunate.

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:58 pm

Fortunate indeed!

Vlad Popov · Post by **Vlad Popov** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:16 am

I might not be in town till next week, so if there is any debate on whether to hold the second winter race or postpone it again, I’m voting PRO race. Hope the weather will be…well, just will be!

Tim Keasbey · Post by **Tim Keasbey** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:11 pm

Are we running this weekend? The roads are dry in my neighborhood. In a pinch we could run single lane small offset here if need be.

Timbobwei

Brian Parsons · Post by **Brian Parsons** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:40 pm

Tim, Fountainhead is dry. This Saturday is a go. Longboards start at 10am. See you there.

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:23 pm

Longboards?? How long??
My Comet is a whole 29" long and 7.5" wide.

Whatever, I don't go fast enough for it to make a difference anyway. I am there to simply mooch of all your mad skillz!

I am very excited to be hanging with most of the D.C. crowd this Saturday. You guys are my heroes!

Wesley Tucker · Post by **Wesley Tucker** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:32 pm

On 2003-01-10 12:23, matthew wilson wrote: You guys are my heroes!

Now there is no doubt a young man of diminuitive aspirations! :razz:

Y'all have fun tomorrow. I think I'm going to take my new supply of Turner cones and try this 100-cone thing. Should be a decent way to spend a winter's afternoon.

Matthew Wilson · Post by **Matthew Wilson** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 8:12 pm

Tuck-

That was funny.

hey, good luck with that 100 cone thing.

[ This Message was edited by: matthew wilson on 2003-01-10 14:16 ]

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